Low dose run planned, think this one's less unreasonable

[dpfisher]

After looking at some low dose threads, and thinking about ds for a long time, I've decided I want to do a low dose run this year. My first plan was to use hdrol based on what a few people said but most people here found it to be a bad idea. My goals are still low suppression and short dosing time table to minimize lasting sides.

What I want to get out of it: Strength is my main goal. Any lasting strength improvement would be a success for me. My size has increased a lot in the last year but strength has increased very very slowly. Of course I'd like to gain mass and lean out too. My hope is this cycle would be able to keep me within 5 lbs of where I am now but with some major recomp and strength improvements.

The new plan is:
3 weeks still, 3mg mdrol and 3 caps 11-oxo ED.
Support: Hawthorn for preload; CS for on; Clomid, aPCT, and Cissus for PCT.

Weeks:
-2: Hawthorn berry
-1: CS
1: CS, 3mg mdrol, 4 caps 11oxo down to 3
2: CS, 3mg mdrol, 3 caps 11oxo
3: CS, 3mg mdrol, 3 caps 11oxo down to 1, 600mg up to 1800mg cissus/day to maintain cort control
4: Clomid 100mg down to 50 within days, aPCTx 4, 1800mg cissus
5: Clomid 25mg, aPCT x 3, 1800mg Cissus
6: Clomid 12.5mg, aPCT x 2, 1800mg Cissus
7: aPCTx1, 1200mg Cissus

Diet I might change to 50p/35c/15f up to ~4000 from ~3000. Normally I eat 55p/25c/20f, clean except 1 day every week or two.

Main question I have here is: Would it be best to run aPCT inverse to Clomid or is this fine since these are lower doses? Should I run the clomid at 50 for a second week? I am apparently very gyno prone since Prime gave me some minor symptoms.

Of course I'm always open to any and all suggestions including "You're a dumbass don't do this ever," though it would be nice if you included reasoning with your suggestions.

 

[RedwolfWV]

How are you going to do 3mg of Mdrol when it comes in 10mg caps? Are you gonna open them up and measure them?

I cant imagine 3mg of mdrol doing much of anything, although there is a thread somewhere about someone doing 5mg a day but I didn't really go through it.

I'd go with one of those non-methylated clones like T-Roid or dienedrone. Check out Bslicks log here: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/108566-bslick69bs-m-s.html

Really, in my opinion 3mg of Mdrol isn't gonna do anything. But thats just my .02

 

[dpfisher]

Yes, open them up... actually its 3.33mg, or 1/3 pill. I will probably measure them visually on a hard surface, since it still gives a 3 day average of 10mg. sonny4753 on this board is doing a 3mg run right now and was up 5lbs and down 1% bf after 3 weeks. I don't mind if I don't gain 10-20lbs lean since that amount is pretty hard to keep anyway.

 

[badfish51581]

Based on your goals and your plan, I don't think it's that great of an idea. You could do it, but why not just use creatine at this point? It seems like you want to try a designer, but don't want to deal with any of the downsides - which means you won't get much upsides either.

3mg of mdrol is really low and to be honest I'm not sure how much improvement you'll see.

I think the main point of running a designer is to get benefits above of what other supplements could net you. I'd personally run some type of creatine before I would do 3mg of mdrol.

I would ask, what sides are you so concerned about? Mdrol is a strength monster and could be run at 10mg for 3 weeks relatively safely with minimal sides. Hdrol could be run at 75mg for 4-6 weeks with pretty low sides as well and probably give you more strength than 3mg of mdrol for 3 weeks.

Are you just trying to be cautious about your first round? To me it looks like you're being a little to cautious unless you have some specific reason for that caution.

 

[dpfisher]

Well since natural supplements gave me mild gyno I'd like to run things pretty carefully my first time around. Of course I'd like to not have people calling me out on use either (not that this hasn't happened anyway even though I'm natural and small), and I'd like to be able to maintain my gains. I've also been reading about this stuff for years and sometimes see people doing everything right who get horrendous sides or still lose everything in pct, so being safe seems to be the way to go.

I've used creatine and I'm not really a fan. Didn't really seem to help that much.

I made the choice to use ds/ph's instead of natural stuff because to be honest the natural stuff is expensive, I get sides and don't know wtf, and if I'm going to have the sides then I at least want the gains to go with it. I'm not comfortable just slamming a bunch of random crap that someone on the internet says will work anymore because when I started to lean up the fact that I have some remaining gyno from the earlier natural incident became a lot more apparent. With ds/ph's at least I KNOW what I might be doing to myself, exactly what's going into my body, and how to correct any problems rather than being blindsided.

 

[badfish51581]

Alright, so your big issue is gyno - which I think is a legitimate concern. What exactly were you using that caused it and what exactly were your symptoms. A lot of people just get the itch and freak out a little more than necessary. My understanding is that sensitivity isn't necessarily gyno, just something to keep an eye on it case it gets worse. Not sure if that was your case, but if you really had it, then I wouldn't necessarily touch anything hormonal in the first place.

Right off the bat, I would be concerned about you using mdrol if gyno is an issue. Mdrol is probably the most known out of all the DS's that gives gyno - often delayed.

My understanding from reading many many many many threads on it is this. Mdrol, supposedly remains free in the blood (as it doesn't attach to SHBG), and it's also supposedly anti-estrogenic as well. (I say supposed because it's speculation, but relatively intelligent speculation based on it's effects.) A theory is that estrogen levels drop while on, and then users who use a AI in pct suppress it even further. Weeks after their PCT, when estrogen levels finally recover, they get the legendary delayed gyno.

I think, to be safe, you should consider stocking Nolva and Letro no matter what you decide to do. Letro can be really effective suppressing estrogen in case you find yourself with gyno, and nolva (as far as I know) is the most effective SERM for dealing with gyno - not necessarily with restarting HPTA.

With that said, I would avoid mdrol (and probably anything hormonal). I'd start off with an hdrol cycle and see what happens. I've seen no one complain of gyno issues from it and it's well known to not be very suppressive - most people use an OTC SERM for HPTA restart. I'd consider getting up to about 75mg for about 4-6 weeks at your bodyweight if you did want to venture down this road.

Not sure what supplements you've used before, but I know what you mean about random internet recommendations. I'd spend sometime looking into products that get overall good feedback and I think you'll find that you can filter through the hype and misleading reviews and recommendations.

Anyways, I would put Ragnorak (caffeine free) and RPM combo above your 3mg of mdrol idea when it comes to strength. When I ran this combo, I would say that it was pretty close to my run of mdrol at 10mg for three weeks. I think mdrol really hits it's stride at 20-30mg at least for people 200+lbs. Besides, after you pick up all the support supplements for the Mdrol or Hdrol, you'd end up spending the about the same if not more anyways.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[dpfisher]

The gyno was itching and pain even wearing a shirt. Now I have puffiness around the nipples, especially the right, and lumps behind both as well as some slightly off the the sides. Lots of small pea sized ones and each nipple has as slightly larger one behind it. The issue with tribulus is there's one recorded case of this and most people thought he was probably using something hormonal and lying about it to his doctor so I figured it was safe. Fortunately I didn't get it bad enough that you can really tell easily by looking. I notice it but I don't think most people would.

I'm not sure why people think this won't work exactly... it seems like everyone who has tried it has had good success. I appreciate the feedback and am still taking all of it into consideration, and I'm still hoping someone can answer my PCT question.

 

[dpfisher]

Here's the deal, I have on hand: 1x mdrol, 1x apct, 1x CS, 5x hawthorn berry (what can I say it was cheap) and 1x 60ml@25g/ml clomid. All of this can wait, even forever if need be. I don't mind buying other stuff or not using this. Most of my money goes towards food and more weights anyway. Right now I'm 170@13-14% or maybe a little less (remember I'm short), diet and training really couldn't be much better. I'm actually successfully recomping now, gaining a little muscle while losing fat. My goal weight is 190 <10% but I lift for my own satisfaction, not for any sports team or competition or anything. I'd like to reach it fairly quickly then once I do maintain it completely naturally. I also wish my strength would increase because it doesn't seem to very much even though size does. That's really the reason I was looking into this.

What would you guys do? Nothing? Something more standard? I'm totally aware I can reach that size naturally but I'd rather not take several more years to do it.

 

[bb4life]

how about a low dose of havoc? maybe 20mg for 4 weeks... recovery would be easy and i think you would have better results than 3 weeks of 3mg mdrol...