Low Dose of Dbol: The Use of Dianabol as a Supplement

CEDeoudes59

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Let your mind be open. I mean, this one isn't too hardcore anyway. I've seen 15mg of Dbol yearround as an effective oral cruise - without being a sledgehammer on the lipid profile.

I had believed that high dose > long duration is the safest however.

in short, article proposes:
6 weeks of Dbol @ 25mg. (very basic)
10 weeks of Dbol @ 15mg (weekdays only) with injectable cycle.
*both should be probably run with an injectable anyway

---
The Use of Dianabol as a Supplement
Article by Bransholme

This article was originally intended to be a history of the anabolic steroid dianabol and it's usage in bodybuilding, but there is little real evidence of how it was used in previous decades. However, in the course of research, I have come to the conclusion that current use of dianabol as a supplement is not as efficient as it could be. Most of the modern thoughts on dianabol use reflect around myths and irrelevant scientific studies; this article attempts to explain new ways of thinking on dianabol usage using scientific evidence and people's experiences.

Dianabol (or dbol as it's commonly called) is one of the most commonly used oral steroids. Its chemical name is methanedienone or methandrostenolone and there are many different pharmaceutical and generic varieties including Anabol and Naposim. In this article we look at lower dose usage of dianabol as a supplement, as opposed to using pro-hormones or pro-steroids.

Liver Toxicity of Dianabol
The 17 alpha-alkylated properties of methanedienone do make it liver toxic, but this, I believe, is overstated as most of the evidence of its toxicity comes from studies on individuals and not from studies on large groups of dianabol-using bodybuilders. One study on rats (1) showed that regardless of dose or time of administration, dianabol produces changes in enzymatic activity, which leads to hypertrophy of hepatocytes; which basically shows that dianabol is toxic to the liver. But in another study (2) Nerobol (Russian Dianabol) was found to favour a rapid normalisation of functional and metabolic disorders of the liver, which contradicts the earlier evidence. This shows that the whole idea of dianabol being dangerous is in no way as bad as some would make out.

Benefits of Dianabol Use
Dianabol has been shown to increase anaerobic glycolysis (3), which increases lactic acid build up in the body. This is beneficial because lactic acid is used by the muscles to form glycogen, which in turn provides energy in anaerobic metabolism. Lactic acid is also a key chemical in the disposal of dietary carbohydrates, which means you are less likely to get fat while using dianabol.

A study on osteoporosis (4) showed that at a dosage of just 2.5mg per day for 9 months dianabol was more effective than calcium supplementation in reducing osteoporotic activity, it was also shown to increase muscle mass more effectively. Another study on osteoporosis (5) which lasted 24 months, showed just how dianabol works on osteoporosis; dianabol increased total body calcium, and also total body potassium. This may not mean much to you as a bodybuilder, but the actions of calcium are very important to bodybuilders, as it transports large numbers of amino acids and also creatine and these two things are vital in muscle growth. Potassium is also very important, as it assists in muscle contractions, transmitting nerve signals, and insulin release; so it is also a very anabolic substance.

One very interesting study (6), although not significant in bodybuilding terms, showed that dianabol increases the sensitivity of laryngeal tumour cells to radiotherapy, and concluded 'recommending this hormone to be used during radiotherapy of patients with the laryngeal cancer'.

How to Cycle Dianabol
To create a cycle for dianabol that is based around using it more as a supplement than a steroid, we first need to look at the current trend for cycling dianabol and analyse what is wrong with it. An average cycle of Dianabol is usually structured as 25-40mg split throughout each day for 4-6 weeks, either alone
or stacked with other steroids.

Firstly a dose of 25mg or more commonly causes water retention. It is well known that dianabol does aromatise quite easily, and most of the water retention is usually attributed to a build up of excess estrogen. However, it is my belief that initially water retention is caused by the body holding on to water due to the effects of dianabol on the body's mineral balance, in particular the potassium/sodium balance. This coupled with the fact that dianabol cause estrogenic side effects, leads to a lot of water build-up, and as there is little we can do about the change in the bodies mineral balance, the only other thing we can do is try to reduce aromatisation, usually with Nolvadex (tamoxifen) or other anti-estrogens. This is not the only method though, by reducing the dose, less of the drug will aromatise, which leads to less estrogen and more importantly less water retention. Reducing the drug during a cycle would lead to estrogen levels dropping slowly, so we should start the cycle with a lower dose of 10-20mg each day.
Splitting the dosage when you are using a low dose is virtually pointless, as you will get a much smaller peak of the drug. So in this case it is best to take it in a single dose in the morning (preferably with grapefruit juice). Although this will not prevent suppression of natural testosterone, it may lessen it to a certain degree, as your body will still have lengthy periods later in the day when there is little testosterone circulating, and so it may still produce some.

Now if we look at cycle duration, 4-6 weeks seems too short to have any real effect at a low dose, but how can we use dianabol for longer without placing more risk on our liver? The solution is actually quite simple; by taking weekends off from the drug we will give our livers a break from processing the drug. Due to the short half-life any active substances will be out of our system within 24 hours of your last dose, now this may seem like it will cost you gains, but in actual fact it will cost you little or no losses in the long run as even though there is no active drug in the body the effects are still present i.e. extra intramuscular water, and a more anabolic mineral balance. These effects usually taper off over several days. This method will not however, help your natural testosterone to return from its inhibited state, as this process can take considerably longer. If we take weekends off and use a lower dose, we should in theory be able to use dianabol for 10 weeks with no problems.

A simple bit of mathematics can show this point best:
•6 weeks @25mg each day = 1050mg of Dianabol in total
•10 weeks with weekends off @15mg each day = 750mg of Dianabol in total

So as you can see, by using this system your liver will actually process less dianabol than in a conventional cycle, add this to the fact that you can make gains for 10 weeks instead of 6, and with fewer side effects, and you get a very solid cycle.

Summary
This Cycle Theory can be applied in many different situations, for instance a beginner could use the dianabol on it's own for 10 weeks and gain very well. A more experienced steroid user could use this alongside an injectable cycle for very good gains too, getting the benefit of the initial quick gains of the Dianabol, with the slower but stronger gains of an injectable.
This cycle may seem to go against many of the current trends of dianabol use, but I believe that by using dianabol as a supplement to good training and nutrition you can make very good gains.

References
•Effects of methandrostenolone on liver morphology and enzymatic activity. Nesterin MF, Budik VM, Narodetskaia RV, Solov'eva GI, Stoianova VG.
•An experimental study of the hepatoprotective properties of phytoecdysteroids and Nerobol in carbon tetrachloride induce liver lesions. Syrov VN, Khushbaktova ZA, Nabiev AN.
•Effects of methanedienone (methandrostenolone) on energy processes and carbohydrate metabolism in rat liver cells. Serakovskii S, Mats'koviak Iu.
•Calcium, vitamin D and anabolic steroid treatment of aged bones: double-blind placebo-controlled long-term clinical trial. Inkovaara J, Gothoni G, Halttula R, Heikinheimo R, Tokola O.
•Changes in body composition following therapy of osteoporosis with methandrostenolone. Mann V, Benko AB, Kocsar LT.
Radiomodifying effect of methandrostenolone on laryngeal cancer cells. Bordiushkov IuN, Kucherova TI, Kisliakova ND, Vagner VP, Zubkova TV.
 
ManBeast

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Very interesting, but I would still be *very* hesitant to reccomend dbol alone to anyone for any reason. I also wish the author would have tackled the test suppression issue a bit as well (I know what to do, but many people reading it might not).

ManBeast
 

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Very interesting, but I would still be *very* hesitant to reccomend dbol alone to anyone for any reason. I also wish the author would have tackled the test suppression issue a bit as well (I know what to do, but many people reading it might not).

ManBeast
I'm not planning on duing this but what do you recomend to help with test supression?
 

tattoopierced1

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wow..very interesting. I am taking fosamax right now for osteo, so next time I go in and get a BDT I will see how it is going, and if things arent up to par, I might shoot my Dr. the link on dbol and osteo....
 
pistonpump

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good post CED, where did you get it from? Interesting, made me think of using it as kickstart then going with cruise dose the duration of the cycle as suggested
 
ManBeast

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I'm not planning on duing this but what do you recomend to help with test supression?

I would say HCG, or anything that works via the same pathway.

ManBeast
 
gators52

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Do you still believe that high dosage is > duration in terms of safety?

If so what would be the difference between kickstarting a 12 week cycle of test and dbol at say 30mg dbol (weeks 1-4), taking a 4 week break from the dbol, then ending the cycle with 4 weeks on of 30mg dbol?

While I'm still learning about this 15mg of dbol doesn't seem like it would kickstart the cycle nearly as well.
 
pistonpump

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i was thinking more on the lines of 30-40mg for 4weeks then dropping down to 10-15mg the rest of the cycle. Im thinking of trying it. maybe tapering dose down then back up then back down, pyramid effect.
 
gators52

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i was thinking more on the lines of 30-40mg for 4weeks then dropping down to 10-15mg the rest of the cycle. Im thinking of trying it. maybe tapering dose down then back up then back down, pyramid effect.
Allright I understand, however if the duration of dbol is what people consider to be harmfull to your liver and not the dosage (correct me if that assumption is wrong) then by pyramiding and not ever fully going off you mise well just run dbol at 30-40 mg the entire time then right? Or is liver toxicity more of a combination of both duration and dosage? Unless one purpose of reducing the dosage is just to reduce the sides.
 
pistonpump

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liver toxicity is effected by dosage and duration. Going on a low dose will still give you some of the pluses of dbol but less hard on your system. By taking couple days off between weeks will also help your liver recover a bit. The liver is a resilient organ.
 
dagecko

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Very interesting, but I would still be *very* hesitant to reccomend dbol alone to anyone for any reason. I also wish the author would have tackled the test suppression issue a bit as well (I know what to do, but many people reading it might not).

ManBeast
So what would you recommend be stacked with dbol? This thread kind of reminds me of another thread I read...I think it was on Superdrol...can't r-e-m-e-m-b-e-r...

On that note...what about a low dose SD cycle for up to 10 wks? Maybe 10mg or so...lol.
 
jmh80

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People - please take CED's advice at your own peril.

He believes USC is good enough for a national title.....
:fool2:
 
gators52

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Haha he's drinking the USC kool-aid. However he's one of the smart people who, like me, believe LSU is a top 5 team.
 
pistonpump

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So what would you recommend be stacked with dbol? This thread kind of reminds me of another thread I read...I think it was on Superdrol...can't r-e-m-e-m-b-e-r...

On that note...what about a low dose superdrol cycle for up to 10 wks? Maybe 10mg or so...lol.
i think to compare superdrol would have to be below 5mg it is harsher so i dont think running for to long would be a good idea.
 
CEDeoudes59

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So what would you recommend be stacked with dbol? This thread kind of reminds me of another thread I read...I think it was on Superdrol...can't r-e-m-e-m-b-e-r...

On that note...what about a low dose superdrol cycle for up to 10 wks? Maybe 10mg or so...lol.

This depends on your goals. Dbol is a test derivative and Sdrol is not. With that said, both should be accompanied with a test base. However, you could run Dbol without a test base and still feel normal. Gains on superdrol tend to stop after after 25days (@20mg-30mg) so running it further wouldn't really be beneficial.

Honestly you run ran Dbol, 15mg a day.. each 5mg tab 8hours apart.. I doubt your liver would quit on you. If it did, you would be the first person in history and you could have a friend negative rep my post. Add liver protectants and you will be fine.

The concept here is, use test and (15-20mg) of dbol (spread out the doses to avoid water retention) simply to increase protein synthesis for the duration of your cycle. You won't get the insane strength boost week-to-week but you also probably won't get the moon face, crazy sweating (me) and shortness of breath.

Again, I know we preach safety, that is good, that is the way it should be. Still I don't think this method is too crazy. I know we try to discourage irresponsible kids who want quick huge gains from dangerous cycles.. but this is neither dangerous nor will give quick huge gains. It is merely 'supplement' to your testosterone cycle.
 
CEDeoudes59

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Do you still believe that high dosage is > duration in terms of safety?
It all depends on the dose you are taking.

Consider this:
which college kid is hurting his liver more?

Frat Boy, 22shots of Vodka a night, 14 days of extended spring break.

Other kid, 3 beers a night, 365days a year.

Granted probably both look like sh1t, but the Frat Boy's liver is more messed up on paper. Also consider that, I'm assuming, neither kid is using Liv52 or Milk Thistle to protect their liver.
 
bigpetefox

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This depends on your goals. Dbol is a test derivative and Sdrol is not. With that said, both should be accompanied with a test base. However, you could run Dbol without a test base and still feel normal. Gains on superdrol tend to stop after after 25days (@20mg-30mg) so running it further wouldn't really be beneficial..
SD is a DHT derivative, since it's methylated masterone, or methyldrostanolone.. ;)

I do agree with the rest, though..

Many won't recommend dbol-only cycles because of the main 3:

1. Noobs who fear needles
2. Mainly water weight, even if you ate insanely strict
3. After 4wks, you'll shrink back to your normal self if PCT isn't done right..

Remember, back in the days guys like Frank Zane and Ahnuld used way less methandrostenolone than most monsters do today, and they seem fine.. :study:
 
pistonpump

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Yeah superdrol is a DHT derivative thats why i believe the ratio that someone posted once showing that it is actually more andro then anabolic. People just dont beleive it because they grow so much on it, which is probably from glycogen stores more than anything. Of topic but yeah.

This makes me think of doing a 4week jumpstart at 40mg ED then taking 2 weeks off and running 10mg for 10weeks while on a test cycle.
 
CEDeoudes59

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This makes me think of doing a 4week jumpstart at 40mg ED then taking 2 weeks off and running 10mg for 10weeks while on a test cycle.
same here. kickstart, break, then 15mg on weekdays for me though
 
pistonpump

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i might have 10mg tabs so would you think 10mg would still reap benefiets or would 20mg be to much? Sounds like a good idea where did you find this 411???
 
ManBeast

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Pill splitters are great friends. I like CEDeoudes59's cycle idea a lot.

I would personally pair test of some kind with dbol.

I feel that while 40 will give quicker gains, 15 will give gains that are easier on your system. I'd rather have slower gains that don't bloat me up like a waterballon, but that's just me :)

ManBeast
 
luke1984

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Very interesting.

The more I learn about these substances, the more I learn about their potential to help people in many ways, instead of just making one into a greek god.
 

Tom 185

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test enanthate 1-14

1- 30mg dbol
2- 30mg dbol
3- 30mg dbol
4- 30mg dbol
5- 30mg dbol
6- 30mg dbol
7-
8-
9- 20mg dbol
10- 20mg dbol
11- 20mg dbol
12- 20mg dbol
13- 20mg dbol
14-
15-
16-
17- pct begins

ehh??
 
CEDeoudes59

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run dbol to close, 12-16.
if test E is 1-14.

That 2week window, use Dbol
 

Tom 185

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run dbol to close, 12-16.
if test E is 1-14.

That 2week window, use Dbol
i would have 200 (10mg) pills...

1- 30
2- 30
3- 30
4- 30
5- 30
6- 30
7-
8-
9-
10-
11- 20
12- 20
13- 20
14- 20
15- 20
16- off week here to let my system clear 100%
17- pct begins..

how does that look?
 
gators52

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Do what CED suggested dont take dbol week 11 and take it week 16.
 
pistonpump

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i would have 200 (10mg) pills...

1- 30
2- 30
3- 30
4- 30
5- 30
6- 30
7-
8-
9-
10-
11- 20
12- 20
13- 20
14- 20
15- 20
16- off week here to let my system clear 100%
17- post cycle therapy begins..

how does that look?
All G....are you going to take weekend doses off like the article states?
 

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I would bridge on anavar, winstrol, primo, gh, insulin, igf-1, d-bol would be fine but no more than 10mg/day. I wouldn't go longer than a say 8-10 week bridge, and it should be around 1mg per lb of bodyweight for the injectables per week.
 
gators52

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i would have 200 (10mg) pills...


16- off week here to let my system clear 100%
Taking dbol during this week wont hurt "clearing you system" since the half life of dbol is 4-6 hours i believe while test E is 10-14 days. You will be clear by the time you start PCT, and this will also give your liver another week of rest before doing another cycle of dbol.
 
CEDeoudes59

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whats your test dosage at?
unless you frontload, you won't see it's effects until week 6
hence run dbol to week 5-6.
 

Tom 185

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whats your test dosage at?
unless you frontload, you won't see it's effects until week 6
hence run dbol to week 5-6.
i've always seen effects by week 3 with test enanthate

my dosage will be 810mg....i have run 500mg, 500mg, Sust 250 EOD, & 720mg

i am running the dbol til week 6
 
CEDeoudes59

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Why not take clomid as you go along, no one ever thinks of that.
clomid won't do anything for supression while on cycle...
HCG is the answer here
 

getreal

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clomid won't do anything for supression while on cycle...
HCG is the answer here
I was thinking of using andriol as a test base, I know it means mor orals but i'll only be doin 20mgs of dbol ad tops, even further thinking would 20mg really shut you down? I know it's bound to supress you a little bit, therfore is a test base actually required? There is no point in me going after mass too quickly any way because my body would not be happy.
 
CEDeoudes59

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dbol is your test base, it is a test derivative.
if you don't want to poke yourself, just run a regular dbol cycle but taper it down into post cycle therapy.

such as:
30-50mg for 4weeks
drop to 15mg
drop to 10mg
Begin PCT

it would probably cement gains so to speak. when you are at 15mg or 10mg, you won't get too much water retention, so whatever you have gained - you will have a good indication at that point.

otherwise just run it at 15-20mg for a longer period.

for whatever reason people are against dbol only cycle for rookies, but honestly it is a good choice to test the waters in my opinion. It is a test base in itself - so you don't feel like sh*t the entire time. Whatever gains you lose from dbol for a first cycle were mainly water. No reason you can't put on 9-17lbs with dbol @ 40mg for a first cycle.
 

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dbol is your test base, it is a test derivative.
if you don't want to poke yourself, just run a regular dbol cycle but taper it down into post cycle therapy.

such as:
30-50mg for 4weeks
drop to 15mg
drop to 10mg
Begin post cycle therapy

it would probably cement gains so to speak. when you are at 15mg or 10mg, you won't get too much water retention, so whatever you have gained - you will have a good indication at that point.

otherwise just run it at 15-20mg for a longer period.

for whatever reason people are against dbol only cycle for rookies, but honestly it is a good choice to test the waters in my opinion. It is a test base in itself - so you don't feel like sh*t the entire time. Whatever gains you lose from dbol for a first cycle were mainly water. No reason you can't put on 9-17lbs with dbol @ 40mg for a first cycle.
That's what I always thought, it has test in it, that was a great reply. Everybody on message boards are against dbol only's, they may have good reason to be since orals are easier to abuse by people that don't train and eat properly.

I have tried 1 shot of test e before, but that was becase sombody pinned it for me, I will not do it myself, just to risky. I have clomid and nolva at hand also.
 

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The idea of taking weekends off sounds interesting and was thinking if a similiar change would make sense.. Ex. If you were running workouts mon,tues,thurs,fri,sat... wed, sun off days. so instead just be off the cycle on your off workout days of wed, sun. Essentially wed n sun would be ur weekend days. In this state you wouldnt have 2 straight days (normal sat, sun weekend method)without the dbol in your system.
 

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dbol is all i got trust me if i could get my hands on some test i woud ive been takin 15 mg a day first thing in the morning for 2 weeks so far great gains no bloat or gyno i dont know why people are so against dbol only cycles
 

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MY CONTRIBUTION

I stumbled upon this thread and I just had to contribute my own data to the common pool.
Data out there is a hodgepodge of truth and lore. Armchair scientists might benefit from my contribution.

That said, I neither promote nor condone the use of gear because human physiology is so widely different from person to person. One man's poison is another man's potion.

So I've been running an ultralow D-Bolin dose for 8 months now. I used to have high VO₂ max, now not so much. I'm coming out of a 2-year sedentary period. Non-prescrip gear is not legal in my country but strangely easy to acquire for cheap, and not bunk either. Primary reasons for use are:
1. For recovery. I don't cycle and I don't use it to augment a blast, but when I'm on gear, my recovery time is faster by threefold or fourfold.
2. To kick andropause. My dry skin has normalized, my joints don't feel like **** thanks to it's water-retentive action, my VO₂ max isn't so crappy on it. I'm coming out of a 2-year sedentary period. My intention is to go on an even lower dose once I've hit my health goals while on it, and then probably shelf it for the next 5 years or so.
View attachment 234359

My Gear:
1. D-Bolin (Methandienon, made in Ukraine), 2.5mg/day running 8 months uninterrupted now. I quarter a 10mg tab and consume it over 4 days.
2. Nada. No test shots, no nothing, absolutely nada.
3. Nominal amounts of multivitamins.
4. Don't smoke, don't drink much, occasional 50mg modafinil/armodafinil to clear brain fog in the morning, moderately high caffeine intake.

My Body:
1. Age 45, early andropause, self-diagnosed based on all the symptoms. Slow muscle loss, lost 1/4 inch height, oily skin for the first 30 years of my life but now dry and flaky, cranky all day. Used to love porn but nowadays barely get it up. (Too much info haha, **** you).
2. 75% Asian 25% European ethnicity. Light complexion. 10 minutes sunshine every day. Southeast Asian warm climate, sweat most of the day. Sleep at 12mn, up at 7:30am.
3. Hard gainer. Rice every day. High carb moderate protein.
4. Good genes, thank god. Healthy as a horse most of my life. Ancestors on both side hit their 80's and 90's before croaking.

Brief Exercise History
1. Athletic since childhood (running, Judo, Karate, Taekwondo, 20km marathon). ECG detects a right bundle branch block, a variant in the nerve impulse of the heart that a lot of athletes seem to have (some scientists theorize it's an adaptation to high cardio); only discovered during annual medical checkup at work, otherwise no notable effects.
2. Some idea of a normal day: 60kg bench press 4 reps 2 sets, 30 pushups, 30 lunges, 40 chinups and a bunch of random core movements spread throughout the day. I have gym access.

DISCLAIMER
My BP is 120/80 for the past 5 years, and still is while on ultralow dose. Formerly 110/80 from childhood. I haven't done any bloodwork lately but I will soon since there's a clinic just two blocks from me and a battery of tests just costs USD 8.00 equivalent here.

Love and Peace mot#3rfu(k3rs
 
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