Long term sucralose use.

ValiantThor08

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Thoughts on how detrimental long term sucralose use is on the body, and the gut micro biome?
Studies show it changes the gut biome.
Most pre workouts, BCAA, and protein powders use sucralose as the main sweetener. A lot of us are taking a good amount of sucralose a day. Would a probiotic daily help neutralize negative effects? Would probiotics be worthless due to sucralose intake? Since there is a connection with the brain, and immune system to our gut, are we causing long term damage to all three by constantly consuming sucralose?
 
HIT4ME

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Honestly, for the longest time I've felt sucralose is probably a lesser of all the evils. Over the past year or so, I've started to question it. I will say this - trying to cut "sweet" out of your diet is near impossible. If you avoid sugar you are going to get things with all kinds of artificial sweeteners. If you don't avoid sugar you will be taking in a bunch of empty calories. I'm not doing so well with it lately...eating a lot more sugar than I should over the past few months, but before that I was trying really hard to limit "sweet" sources - no sweetener in coffee, sugars from fruits only, etc. - but it's really hard to 100% eliminate it. So many drinks, supplements, etc. have artificial sweeteners.

Still, I think it's a good goal to limit but don't go crazy trying to be perfect.

As above - it's mostly mice we are talking about here.
 
ValiantThor08

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Honestly, for the longest time I've felt sucralose is probably a lesser of all the evils. Over the past year or so, I've started to question it. I will say this - trying to cut "sweet" out of your diet is near impossible. If you avoid sugar you are going to get things with all kinds of artificial sweeteners. If you don't avoid sugar you will be taking in a bunch of empty calories. I'm not doing so well with it lately...eating a lot more sugar than I should over the past few months, but before that I was trying really hard to limit "sweet" sources - no sweetener in coffee, sugars from fruits only, etc. - but it's really hard to 100% eliminate it. So many drinks, supplements, etc. have artificial sweeteners.

Still, I think it's a good goal to limit but don't go crazy trying to be perfect.

As above - it's mostly mice we are talking about here.
I know it is a little more pricey, but would be nice to see supplements adopt an erythritol stevia blend as the sweetener.
 
HIT4ME

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I know it is a little more pricey, but would be nice to see supplements adopt an erythritol stevia blend as the sweetener.
It also doesn't taste as good (although most artificial sweeteners require some adaptation) and a lot of people will have gastro issues if they start eating all kinds of things with erytrhitol...it adds up.

Plus, I don't care if it's natural or man-made...it is all going to have pluses and minuses.
 
ValiantThor08

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It also doesn't taste as good (although most artificial sweeteners require some adaptation) and a lot of people will have gastro issues if they start eating all kinds of things with erytrhitol...it adds up.

Plus, I don't care if it's natural or man-made...it is all going to have pluses and minuses.
Erythritol tastes pretty good to me. Very similar to sugar in taste, and is a 1 to 1 ratio. Sugar alcohol. No side effects. No blood sugar or insulin impact.
 
Aleksandar37

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Erythritol tastes pretty good to me. Very similar to sugar in taste, and is a 1 to 1 ratio. Sugar alcohol. No side effects. No blood sugar or insulin impact.
There are side effects. HIT4ME stated the known side effects: it can cause gastrointestinal issues.
 
thebigt

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HIT4ME

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what are the better alternatives?
If there are any, its all news to me. Everything has pluses and minuses. For me, I just think it is best to learn to limit your need for sweetness. Adjust your taste so you don't need a ton of sucrolose, aspartame, erythritol, stevia, sugar, etc.

Even sugar can be eaten in moderation, but people go way beyond 20-30 grams a day and don't realize it.

At the end of the day I got used to not using any sweetener in things when it wasn't needed - coffee and tea and water being a prime example.

Beyond making an effort though, I don't go nuts. If I have some erythritol...some splenda...some aspartame...I mix it up and just try to avoid what I can and mix up what I can so I don't get much of any one thing.

That's what works for me at least.
 
HIT4ME

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Oh, and for me, the attempt to limit sweetness made me aware of how much "sweetness" us pushed at us in the food supply. We can blame the food industry, or we can blame society for what they demand...but it is obviously a feedback loop and a big issue that we aren't aware of most times. And just becoming aware can give us better control of our decisions.
 
ValiantThor08

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If pre workouts came flavorless, I would buy.
 
cheftepesh1

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It’s funny for every study there is always one that says the opposite. In the end it depends on who is paying for it and what they want it to say.
 
ValiantThor08

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It’s funny for every study there is always one that says the opposite. In the end it depends on who is paying for it and what they want it to say.
Ultimately you have to use wisdom, and discretion when it comes to choosing the right way.
 
Aleksandar37

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It’s funny for every study there is always one that says the opposite. In the end it depends on who is paying for it and what they want it to say.
No, it depends on the strength of the experiments performed. If you're going to claim all science is bought and paid for, at least provide examples. Research articles shouldn't be blindly accepted and should be critically read, but making a blanket statement like this is not being at all honest. There have been instances of corruption, particularly when it comes to food-related research, but it's nowhere near the norm.
 
Aleksandar37

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what are the better alternatives?
It all depends on what you're willing to live with, diabetes or chronic gas and diarrhea lol. There's usually a trade off to all of them, but like HIT4ME said, moderation is a good general rule for anything.
 
cheftepesh1

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No, it depends on the strength of the experiments performed. If you're going to claim all science is bought and paid for, at least provide examples. Research articles shouldn't be blindly accepted and should be critically read, but making a blanket statement like this is not being at all honest. There have been instances of corruption, particularly when it comes to food-related research, but it's nowhere near the norm.
I'm not saying all science is bought and paid for, but every study that says one thing is bad, there is always one that says it is nit. It is important to see who is paying for it as it can effect the outcome. As someone said before it is important to do your own research. Studies can conflict and you have to take the time to study for yourself.

This link states 11200 studies listed. Some conflict is my point.
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2019/02/06/sucralose-harmful-effects.aspx#safetyquestion
 
Aleksandar37

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ValiantThor08

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I wouldn't say Dr. Mercola is a scammer, he practices what he recommends. I would agree that he is trying to make money, but he does have some good information.
 
Aleksandar37

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I'm not saying all science is bought and paid for, but every study that says one thing is bad, there is always one that says it is nit. It is important to see who is paying for it as it can effect the outcome. As someone said before it is important to do your own research. Studies can conflict and you have to take the time to study for yourself.

This link states 11200 studies listed. Some conflict is my point.
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2019/02/06/sucralose-harmful-effects.aspx#safetyquestion
As I told another person, mercola isn't science, it's a scam site to sell books on pseudoscience. Random google searches isn't "research."
 
Aleksandar37

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I wouldn't say Dr. Mercola is a scammer, he practices what he recommends. I would agree that he is trying to make money, but he does have some good information.
He stopped practicing medicine so that he could sell tanning beds and books where he didn't have to worry about peer review or supporting evidence. He's a scammer.
 

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I can only speak from personal experience. Switching to stevia/ethyrinol made a world of difference on my stomach. Sucralose just is not for me and I avoid it. I was using some zero cal sauces and syrups that had it and dropped all those.
 
HIT4ME

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I'm not saying all science is bought and paid for, but every study that says one thing is bad, there is always one that says it is nit. It is important to see who is paying for it as it can effect the outcome. As someone said before it is important to do your own research. Studies can conflict and you have to take the time to study for yourself.

This link states 11200 studies listed. Some conflict is my point.
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2019/02/06/sucralose-harmful-effects.aspx#safetyquestion
I think this is attitude is a bit of a generalization. I have spent a lot of time on pubmed and read a lot of research - some of which is very good, some of which is ok, some of which I disagree with methodology or conclusions, and some of which I highly question as being possibly biased, faked, etc.

I have also spoken with some of the people who conduct these studies - you'd be surprised at how willing to help and discuss things a lot of these people are if you email them. I'd say about 50% or more of the researchers I have emailed have responded in a positive manner.

These people work hard and want to find answers to questions and they are really trying to push our knowledge of certain areas forward.

In that light, I can see why people who have any ties to the "industry" might take offense with the supposition that "it all depends on who paid for the research".

To your point, yes - there are issues. Studies don't get published, unfavorable results are glossed over or "made to fit", and sometimes (rarely) there is outright fraud. Peer review is SUPPOSED to help with this, but it is far from perfect and the entire system does have flaws.

BUT - that is why science is so important. Knowledge and experiment is not limited to a person in a white coat. There is no "authority" in science. There is no hidden knowledge. If you question something, put your mind to work and test it yourself. Run your own experiment and find an answer. This can be difficult to do if you're running n=1 studies, and your own studies will be flawed in this case (a point which shouldn't be lost on someone that claims people running larger studies are bought and paid for - if it is near impossible to run a perfect study for your own knowledge, how hard must a large scale study be?).

It is like the idea of the earth being round or flat. There is no authority that says one way or the other and you have to accept it. You are free to question it...and you can run your own tests and figure it out for yourself. You may say, "well I don't have a rocket ship to fly up high enough to see"...but use your mind. Place some sticks in the ground and measure the shadows, look in the sky at all the other planets and stars, make observations and then come back and tell me what is really plausible? Try figuring out how your GPS works if the earth is flat. Reality leaves clues - find the clues.

Also, part of the reason we have so many conflicting studies is because we understand SO little about this stuff. A lot of times, even the scientists are operating under binary assumptions - either this or that. It takes the right study, the right observation, the right intellect to come along and say, "Ah ha- it is neither - the two actually work together and that's why we have this apparent contradiction".

This isn't a knock on you or anyone; and I'm not claiming to be some great scientist either - but this is how I see it and it is what makes science so fascinating to me. It is actually an active pursuit of knowledge, with no real authority - anyone can discover anything (yes, resources help).

Feel free to show these supposed studies you're referring to. You linked to mercola which is a scam site to sell books on pseudoscience crap.
It is kind of tough to argue that the guy selling books for a profit has better knowledge than the guy doing research for a profit.

I sometimes want to like Mercola though. Some of his stuff actually seems to have SOME good info behind it, but he usually takes a little bit of a good idea and runs it off the cliff.

I've had a lot of discussions with local doctors taking care of family members where you can tell they have just become jaded and skeptical of any suggestions outside of their peers - because they must get crazy internet ideas presented to them all the time.
 
HIT4ME

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Sucralose is absolutely awful for you, lots of studies show it now (gut biome, cancer, geno toxicity, thymus issues and more). Even its approval was a scam. Your best option is flavorless or stevia.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2018/09/05/artificial-sweetener-splenda.aspx
This is why you need to read entire studies and have the big picture. That page states, "There are 11,200 references to sucralose in the scientific search engine Google Scholar, so there's no shortage of studies to review for those who are curious."

It's funny they use the word curious, because I am curious as to their conclusions - 11,200 references doesn't mean there are 11,200 studies. The implication that there is no shortage of studies itself is curious when part of their case is that there are no safety studies. And then they cherry pick ONLY 16 studies - many of which have broader implications than "good or bad".

I mean, one of these 16 studies, according to the Mercola summary, basically says "Sucralose doesn't reduce feed intake" - that doesn't make it unhealthy and no one ever said it was an appetite suppressant. Yet they are using this as a study that shows sucrolose is so bad for you. It should point out how much they are reaching if out of 11,200 "references" they couldn't even pull a solid 16 studies to prove their point and had to pick things like that.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not on any sucralose bandwagon here. I'm skeptical, but not fearful.
 
thebigt

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If there are any, its all news to me. Everything has pluses and minuses. For me, I just think it is best to learn to limit your need for sweetness. Adjust your taste so you don't need a ton of sucrolose, aspartame, erythritol, stevia, sugar, etc.

Even sugar can be eaten in moderation, but people go way beyond 20-30 grams a day and don't realize it.

At the end of the day I got used to not using any sweetener in things when it wasn't needed - coffee and tea and water being a prime example.

Beyond making an effort though, I don't go nuts. If I have some erythritol...some splenda...some aspartame...I mix it up and just try to avoid what I can and mix up what I can so I don't get much of any one thing.

That's what works for me at least.
I have switched to stevia for coffee, and only add a small amount of mio drops to my 64oz mug of water I take with me to work...it seems that most of the pre's I use have sucralose, so I am stuck with that...

I don't add sugar to anything although I do have sugary sweets as a treat once in awhile.

I have low blood sugar so I keep hard candy in the truck for work but at home rely on fresh fruit.
 
Aleksandar37

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It is kind of tough to argue that the guy selling books for a profit has better knowledge than the guy doing research for a profit.

I sometimes want to like Mercola though. Some of his stuff actually seems to have SOME good info behind it, but he usually takes a little bit of a good idea and runs it off the cliff.

I've had a lot of discussions with local doctors taking care of family members where you can tell they have just become jaded and skeptical of any suggestions outside of their peers - because they must get crazy internet ideas presented to them all the time.
Show me researchers making all this money that keeps getting claimed. You know I'm going to ask for examples, so please name names. CEO of a pharma company? Sure, just like the CEO of any company. But researchers? In academia, you have to be insane to think they're making as good of a living as they could be. In industry, they may do slightly better than academia, but not a lot, especially when they went to college, went to graduate school for as long as 7 years (more schooling if they're MD, PhD), and then have to do a post-doc only to end up making what they could out of high school or undergrad.

Mercola ignores medical studies to sell products. He's an anti-vaxxer who has been shown repeatedly to be a fraud and a quack and misleads people who consider reading his page as "doing research." And of course he and his followers defend him when his lies are exposed as that is just "big pharma" or "mainstream medicine" (or whatever other catchy conspiracy phrase works on the gullible) trying to stop him from saying the truth.
 
HIT4ME

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Show me researchers making all this money that keeps getting claimed. You know I'm going to ask for examples, so please name names. CEO of a pharma company? Sure, just like the CEO of any company. But researchers? In academia, you have to be insane to think they're making as good of a living as they could be. In industry, they may do slightly better than academia, but not a lot, especially when they went to college, went to graduate school for as long as 7 years (more schooling if they're MD, PhD), and then have to do a post-doc only to end up making what they could out of high school or undergrad.

Mercola ignores medical studies to sell products. He's an anti-vaxxer who has been shown repeatedly to be a fraud and a quack and misleads people who consider reading his page as "doing research." And of course he and his followers defend him when his lies are exposed as that is just "big pharma" or "mainstream medicine" (or whatever other catchy conspiracy phrase works on the gullible) trying to stop him from saying the truth.
I was agreeing with you. Maybe my facetiousness didn't come through? I was saying it is funny people are claiming you can't trust these people making money off of research (like you said, who?) but then throwing out someone making money off books and a website as reliable.

As far as Mercola, I was just saying sometimes he will take one thing I can believe and might have some truth and I WANT to believe...but then he runs it off a cliff with stuff that doesn't make any sense or goes to far.

Like claiming sucrolose is untested and then making it sound like there are 11,000 studies (which logically refutes any untested claim) and then claiming a large portion of the evidence shows it to be harmful, yet can't come up with 16 solid studies showing harm (forget that he can't even link to abstracts, nevermind full studies).
 
Aleksandar37

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I was agreeing with you. Maybe my facetiousness didn't come through? I was saying it is funny people are claiming you can't trust these people making money off of research (like you said, who?) but then throwing out someone making money off books and a website as reliable.

As far as Mercola, I was just saying sometimes he will take one thing I can believe and might have some truth and I WANT to believe...but then he runs it off a cliff with stuff that doesn't make any sense or goes to far.

Like claiming sucrolose is untested and then making it sound like there are 11,000 studies (which logically refutes any untested claim) and then claiming a large portion of the evidence shows it to be harmful, yet can't come up with 16 solid studies showing harm (forget that he can't even link to abstracts, nevermind full studies).
Sorry man, I completely read it the wrong way. I apologize and may be a bit sensitive about the subject since I know a lot of researchers who are stuck in post-docs because funding is crap, but they keep doing it because they believe in their research.
 
HIT4ME

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Sorry man, I completely read it the wrong way. I apologize and may be a bit sensitive about the subject since I know a lot of researchers who are stuck in post-docs because funding is crap, but they keep doing it because they believe in their research.
No need to apologize - I can take it and I can dish it out. I like debating anyway, haha. Just wanted to clarify. Cuz...yeah, its the interweb.
 

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