Long Term Clomid Use

Spurfy said:
This makes no sense at all. None. Zero.
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Do a quick google search. I remember you going into another post touting your degree acting superior to everyone. Do some research yourself, it's a well known fact. That it has a conversion to an anabolic steroid. Not going to waste my time debating with someone who's argumentative in every thread I see him in. All it takes is one google search for both you and the person asking.
 
Spurfy said:
This makes no sense at all. None. Zero.
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Or your knowledge of the compound is limited as you admitted in your first post. So no, I advice against formestane in PCT and if you do one quick google search so do many others, but hey follow an argumentative know it all who touts his degree vs tons of anecdotes and it being a known fact that it's considered a steroidal AI and can be considered a prohormone. Let him enjoy his recovery while you use formestane and enjoy noodle erections.
 
YoungBodyBuil said:
Formestane(4-Hyroxyandrostenedione) is a steroial aromatase inhibitor and a prohormone to the anabolic steroid 4-Hydroxytestosterone. It is not only effective for estrogen reduction, it is also a mild anabolic steroid. It was first patented by G.D. Searle & Co. in 1955, but it never hit the commercial market. Structurally, 4-Hydroxytestosterone is simply testosterone with a hydroxy group at the four position, making it most similar to the steroid clostebol, which has a chloro group at the four position. Formestane and Clostebol(and Halodrol/Promagnon) are very similar in effect.

4-Hydroxytestosterone is .65 times as anabolic and .25 times as androgenic as testosterone propionate. The reason that Formestane has such low androgenic activity is that the modification at the 4th position prevents DHT conversion. In vitro, 4-Hydroxytestosterone is actually a weak inhibitor of 5-alpha reductase.
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I have yet to see you cite a single source demonstrating that aromatase inhibitors are suppressive. In fact, there are at least a dozen studies showing that AIs increase gonadotrophins -- they are the opposite of suprpessive.

Here's a study showing that Aromasin significantly increases HPT-axis activity *in men*, it does not suppress it:

"The LH levels initially decreased by 26% at 2 h; thereafter, there was a tendency for an increase to a maximum of 81% at 24 h. The levels of FSH were unchanged up to 12 h and increased by 49% at 24 h." - Pharmacokinetics and Dose Finding of a Potent Aromatase Inhibitor, Aromasin (Exemestane), in Young Males - J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Dec;88(12):5951-6.
 
YoungBodyBuil said:
Formestane(4-Hyroxyandrostenedione) is a steroial aromatase inhibitor and a prohormone to the anabolic steroid 4-Hydroxytestosterone. It is not only effective for estrogen reduction, it is also a mild anabolic steroid. It was first patented by G.D. Searle & Co. in 1955, but it never hit the commercial market. Structurally, 4-Hydroxytestosterone is simply testosterone with a hydroxy group at the four position, making it most similar to the steroid clostebol, which has a chloro group at the four position. Formestane and Clostebol(and Halodrol/Promagnon) are very similar in effect.

4-Hydroxytestosterone is .65 times as anabolic and .25 times as androgenic as testosterone propionate. The reason that Formestane has such low androgenic activity is that the modification at the 4th position prevents DHT conversion. In vitro, 4-Hydroxytestosterone is actually a weak inhibitor of 5-alpha reductase.
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****! The main Ingredient in Assault Lab's Estro Strike is Formestane, and that's advertised and marketed as an On Cycle and PCT product!!??
 
Spurfy said:
I have yet to see you cite a single source demonstrating that aromatase inhibitors are suppressive. In fact, there are at least a dozen studies showing that AIs increase gonadotrophins -- they are the opposite of suprpessive.

Here's a study showing that Aromasin significantly increases HPT-axis activity *in men*, it does not suppress it:

"The LH levels initially decreased by 26% at 2 h; thereafter, there was a tendency for an increase to a maximum of 81% at 24 h. The levels of FSH were unchanged up to 12 h and increased by 49% at 24 h." - Pharmacokinetics and Dose Finding of a Potent Aromatase Inhibitor, Aromasin (Exemestane), in Young Males - J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Dec;88(12):5951-6.
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ARE YOU BLIND? IT'S NOT JUST AN AI IT CONVERTS TO AN ANABOLIC STEROID.
 
YoungBodyBuil said:
Or your knowledge of the compound is limited as you admitted in your first post. So no, I advice against formestane in PCT and if you do one quick google search so do many others, but hey follow an argumentative know it all who touts his degree vs tons of anecdotes and it being a known fact that it's considered a steroidal AI and can be considered a prohormone. Let him enjoy his recovery while you use formestane and enjoy noodle erections.
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Formestane and exemestane are analogs and work the exact same way. There's no reason to believe that formestane is suppressive while exemestane does the complete opposite. That's just nonsense. I'm sorry that you don't understand pharmacology.
 
Spurfy said:
I have yet to see you cite a single source demonstrating that aromatase inhibitors are suppressive. In fact, there are at least a dozen studies showing that AIs increase gonadotrophins -- they are the opposite of suprpessive.

Here's a study showing that Aromasin significantly increases HPT-axis activity *in men*, it does not suppress it:

"The LH levels initially decreased by 26% at 2 h; thereafter, there was a tendency for an increase to a maximum of 81% at 24 h. The levels of FSH were unchanged up to 12 h and increased by 49% at 24 h." - Pharmacokinetics and Dose Finding of a Potent Aromatase Inhibitor, Aromasin (Exemestane), in Young Males - J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Dec;88(12):5951-6.
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I didnt say AI's in general you manipulative scrooge. I said FORMESTANE. I recommended a TRUE AI AROMASIN. Starting second week in PCT. You're so quick to prove your worth you don't even read.
 
Spurfy said:
Formestane and exemestane are analogs and work the exact same way. There's no reason to believe that formestane is suppressive while exemestane does the complete opposite. That's just nonsense. I'm sorry that you don't understand pharmacology.
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Does aromasin convert to an anabolic steroid? No.
 
YoungBodyBuil said:
I didnt say AI's in general you manipulative scrooge. I said FORMESTANE. I recommended a TRUE AI AROMASIN. Starting second week in PCT. You're so quick to prove your worth you don't even read.
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Moron, they're essentially the same drug. The only difference is a single carbon and a double bond, and the pharmacokinetics. Pharmacodynamically, they are basically identical.

Formestane:

Invalid Link Removed

Exemestane:

Invalid Link Removed
 
YoungBodyBuil said:
THEY EXERT DIFFERENT EFFECTS, BY THAT LOGIC YOURE SAYING THAT TESTOSTERONE AND DHT DO THE SAME EXACT THING. JESUS.
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They do the exact same thing where the hypothalamus and pituitary are concerned, only one (DHT) binds a little more strongly. They are both androgens. Why are you so confused about this? It's really not difficult to understand.
 
Spurfy said:
An androgen is an androgen. The brain gives zero f*cks about what name you give it or how you classify it.
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Dude .... this is a discussion, not an argument. I think the brain does give a fųck
About what you give it. But ill step back n let you spew false information.
 
bighulksmash said:
Dude .... this is a discussion, not an argument. I think the brain does give a fųck
About what you give it. But ill step back n let you spew false information.
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This is how he is in every thread. Why would anyone advise the use of something that converts into an anabolic steroid in PCT, not acts like an androgen.. rather converts into an anabolic fu-cking steroid... which is what you're trying to PCT from..
 
I wont tag anyone . But this about sums it up .

There is a difference when looking at Androgenic steroids vs Anabolic steroids. Anabolic steroids are more related to the development of muscle tissue. The anabolic phase of a person’s metabolism is the phase that transforms substances into the materials used in living tissue. Essentially, this is the part of steroids that helps users grow more muscle.

The androgenic steroids definition works more on the hormonal side of the steroids. An androgen is a hormone that works within all of the characteristics that are attributed to masculinity. The best-known androgen is testosterone.

Androgenic steroids side effects are the ones that are most commonly associated with steroid use, especially steroid use in women. The androgenic side effects are the ones that affect a user’s hair, skin, and sex drive.
 
In formeron's thread or someone elses thread about formeron-cant remember exactly its been years-the man that released it as an AI stated that its suppressive.

If it isnt, use formestane. Its very effective as an AI, I guess you know already. Still have half a dozen of bottles for cold winter cycles
 
bighulksmash said:
Dude .... this is a discussion, not an argument. I think the brain does give a fųck
About what you give it. But ill step back n let you spew false information.
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Am I the only person capable of citing a published study? All I've seen here is a couple of wanna-be pharmacologists arguing drugs that they clearly have zero actual understanding of. Here's a neat-o bit of wisdom: An opinion, especially one stolen from bro-science, is not a fact.

I'm done here unless someone posts something other than their (or someone else's) grossly misinformed opinion.
 
GreekTheBrick said:
In formeron's thread or someone elses thread about formeron-cant remember exactly its been years-the man that released it as an AI stated that its suppressive.

If it isnt, use formestane. Its very effective as an AI, I guess you know already. Still have half a dozen of bottles for cold winter cycles
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This is correct it was stated in the write-up when released that it is suppressive. But yeah let's use it in PCT, when we know for a fact it converts into an anabolic steroid. GENIUS.
 
bighulksmash said:
I wont tag anyone . But this about sums it up .

There is a difference when looking at Androgenic steroids vs Anabolic steroids. Anabolic steroids are more related to the development of muscle tissue. The anabolic phase of a person’s metabolism is the phase that transforms substances into the materials used in living tissue. Essentially, this is the part of steroids that helps users grow more muscle.

The androgenic steroids definition works more on the hormonal side of the steroids. An androgen is a hormone that works within all of the characteristics that are attributed to masculinity. The best-known androgen is testosterone.

Androgenic steroids side effects are the ones that are most commonly associated with steroid use, especially steroid use in women. The androgenic side effects are the ones that affect a user’s hair, skin, and sex drive.
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What does any of this have to do with the hypothalamus or the pituitary? You're discussing peripheral effects, which has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it's suppressive.
 
GreekTheBrick said:
In formeron's thread or someone elses thread about formeron-cant remember exactly its been years-the man that released it as an AI stated that its suppressive.

If it isnt, use formestane. Its very effective as an AI, I guess you know already. Still have half a dozen of bottles for cold winter cycles
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Correct. Formestane was used in conjunction with high test, hcg , and dbol . Even winstrol has been run in that mix. Still I wouldn't choose formestane over exemstane . Idgaf if theres 3 extra carbons . Personal experience is the best way to learn .
 
YoungBodyBuil said:
This is correct it was stated in the write-up when released that it is suppressive. But yeah let's use it in PCT, when we know for a fact it converts into an anabolic steroid. GENIUS.
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You're taking some idiotic marketing hype and trying to draw a pharmacologic conclusion. It's sad, really. You're so out of your league that I'm starting to feel bad for continuing this discussion. Perhaps, the saddest part of all is that you don't even realize how far out of your league you are.
 
bighulksmash said:
Correct. Formestane was used in conjunction with high test, hcg , and dbol . Even winstrol has been run in that mix. Still I wouldn't choose formestane over exemstane . Idgaf if theres 3 extra carbons . Personal experience is the best way to learn .
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Agreed. Exemestane is the gold standard, and there's no reason to use anything else. It's all I've ever used.
 
Spurfy said:
What does any of this have to do with the hypothalamus or the pituitary? You're discussing peripheral effects, which has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it's suppressive.
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Name me one anabolic steroid that is not suppressive. Your responses gear me to believe your grossly uneducated. Good luck on AM .
 
You'd have to run Formestane at upwards of 300mg a day to have a PH-like effect, and that's assuming all that 300mg+ is purely bio available. This was my understanding in Brundel's Formeron thread from a few years back.
 
Spurfy said:
You're taking some idiotic marketing hype and trying to draw a pharmacologic conclusion. It's sad, really. You're so out of your league that I'm starting to feel bad for continuing this discussion. Perhaps, the saddest part of all is that you don't even realize how far out of your league you are.
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As usual flexing your ego. It's okay you can go use a prohormone in PCT. It's a known fact it converts into an anabolic steroid. Let's use steroids in our PCT from steroids. Genius. Yes you're way out my league. You're a genius. More power to. Alrighty AM let's use a prohormone in PCT from now on because this guy says so, and he's clearly way out of our league! Enjoy a flaccid penis, I know your wife wont . ;)
 
Piston Honda said:
You'd have to run Formestane at upwards of 300mg a day to have a PH-like effect, and that's assuming all that 300mg+ is purely bio available. This was my understanding in Brundel's Formeron thread from a few years back.
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I pulled up the thread prior most people say 100mg is where suppression is plausible.
 
bighulksmash said:
Name me one anabolic steroid that is not suppressive. Your responses gear me to believe your grossly uneducated. Good luck on AM .
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Did you just choose to ignore the study I posted showing that exemestane, which has a potent "anabolic steroid" metabolite, is not suppressive, it is in fact, the opposite?

Seriously. Did you just not read what I posted? Did you not understand it?

I'm frankly puzzled here.
 
YoungBodyBuil said:
As usual flexing your ego. It's okay you can go use a prohormone in PCT. It's a known fact it converts into an anabolic steroid. Let's use steroids in our PCT from steroids. Genius. Yes you're way out my league. You're a genius. More power to. Alrighty AM let's use a prohormone in PCT from now on because this guy says so, and he's clearly way out of our league! Enjoy a flaccid penis, I know your wife wont . ;)
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Exemestane is a prohormone. It's not suppresive, it's the opposite. I posted a study showing this.

Why are you so stupid?
 
Spurfy said:
Did you just choose to ignore the study I posted showing that exemestane, which has a potent "anabolic steroid" metabolite, is not suppressive, it is in fact, the opposite?

Seriously. Did you just not read what I posted? Did you not understand it?

I'm frankly puzzled here.
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Anabolic steroid metabolite. Where as formeron is a pro-hormone to an anabolic steroid. Metabolite of an anabolic steroid vs Pro-hormone to an anabolic steroid, not the same thing.
 
YoungBodyBuil said:
As usual flexing your ego. It's okay you can go use a prohormone in PCT. It's a known fact it converts into an anabolic steroid. Let's use steroids in our PCT from steroids. Genius. Yes you're way out my league. You're a genius. More power to. Alrighty AM let's use a prohormone in PCT from now on because this guy says so, and he's clearly way out of our league! Enjoy a flaccid penis, I know your wife wont . ;)
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Might as well tell op to add osta lean or osta quad in to pct . This is ridiculous. Iam out .
 
bighulksmash said:
Might as well tell op to add osta lean or osta quad in to pct . This is ridiculous. Iam out .
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Hey OP throw some Tr3st in PCT too, it'll make you feel great! It converts to an anabolic steroid... So does Formestane... So if we can use one prohormone in PCT then let's use any prohormone in PCT!
 
YoungBodyBuil said:
Anabolic steroid metabolite. Where as formeron is a pro-hormone to an anabolic steroid. Metabolite of an anabolic steroid vs Pro-hormone to an anabolic steroid, not the same thing.
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Ah yes, the brain cares very much about symantics:

"Hey, pituitary, it's the hypothalamus. So, humans call this here chemical a particular thing. Therefore, even though it's structurally and functionally nearly identical to this other chemical, do the exact opposite thing with it. Got it?"

Do you actually think the brain works this way? This is exactly what you're saying.
 
Why is it that every half-wit moron bodybuilder thinks he's an expert in pharmacology?

I've spent 19 years studying pharmacology, 15 at the post-graduate level, and I can honestly say that this is the dumbest pharmacology discussion I've ever had.

I'm done here. If I don't stop, I'm going to end up going to my lab and designing a drug intended solely to give bodybuilders Parkinson's disease. I'll call it, Super MPTP -- "Mega Pump, Testosterone Power!"

Google "MPTP"
 
Spurfy said:
Why is it that every half-wit moron bodybuilder thinks he's an expert in pharmacology?

I've spent 19 years studying pharmacology, 15 at the post-graduate level, and I can honestly say that this is the dumbest pharmacology discussion I've ever had.

I'm done here. If I don't stop, I'm going to end up going to my lab and designing a drug intended solely to give bodybuilders Parkinson's disease. I'll call it, Super MPTP -- "Mega Pump, Testosterone Power!"

Google "MPTP"
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Wow you're a really classy person. Glad we have people like you on this earth.
 
bighulksmash said:
Best example of how androgenic and anabolics effect the brain watch it thru.
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And yet, you still will not answer my question: How is it that exemestane produces an powerful "anabolic steroid" metabolite and yet actually stimulates the HPG-axis instead of suppressing it?
 
Spurfy said:
And yet, you still will not answer my question: How is it that exemestane produces an powerful "anabolic steroid" metabolite and yet actually stimulates the HPG-axis instead of suppressing it?
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Your a google warrior im so proud of u . The answer to your question is : its selective :
 
bighulksmash said:
Your a google warrior im so proud of u . The answer to your question is : its selective :
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Explain the biochemical mechanisms. Don't just cop-out and refuse to answer by giving a meaningless response.

It's selective? How is it selective? What are the mechanisms of selectivity? What are the downstream effects of this selectivity?

I think I chose the wrong forum to join.
 
I wonder if the OP ever had his question answered
 
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