Long Cycle - PCT couple of Q's

[northern]

I am planning on running a Test/Deca/Tbol cycle going like this:

Tbol - week 1-4: 40mg ED
Test - week 1-16: 600mg wk.
Deca - week 1-15: 500mg wk.

First off. I normally used a mixture of two SERMS should I just stick with one from now on or is there an advantage to two. I plan on using toremefin for this PCT but I am unsure how long to run it. I was thinking 6 weeks is this sufficient.

I forgot to mention I plan to run HCG all the way through up until about 4 or 5 days before pct. What else should I add? I was thinking of having a pct like this:

Tor. week 1-6, 180,120,120,60,60,30
ATD week 1-6, 25mg,25mg,50mg,50mg,75mg,75mg
Retain week 1-4 3caps ED, wk.5:2 caps, wk.6: 1 cap
Either Trib or Fenu for 4 weeks


Does that seem to cover it. The only thing I can think that I am missing is something to stimulate LH which the HCG should take care of correct? Not: NO HCG DURING PCT!

 

[Ubiquitous]

Pffft.. that's not long..

Looks good though. What kind of Test? Cyp? Enan? Planning on starting PCT on week 19?

Your Tor dose looks high, but fine. I did well with 120mg for 3 days, 90mg for 4 days, 60mg for 14 days and 30mg for 7 days.


It's very sufficient. Your Libido may suffer with the ATD.. which sucks because the Tor will make you a money shot master.

It looks good. Try PowerFull in there as well... and IGF

 

[northern]

Yeah its Test E ending week 16 startin pct week 19. So do you think I do not need to run the tor for 16 weeks. Also is cabergoline necessary when running deca?

One last questions. I remember someone (Dr. D i think) posting about Letro Dosing. He or they posted something like .25mg Letro eliminated 66% Aromatase Activity, And the like .5mg eliminated 90% of Aromatase Activity. What I am trying to figue out is I do not want to eliminate all estrogen which 2.5mg ED or EOD would do. What I am wondering is dose anyone remeber what dose eliminates up to 80 or 90% aromatase activity I believe it was aroung .25-.5mg either ED or EOD not sure some help would really be appreciated!

 

[DR.D]

Northern,

Run the Letro at 0.50mg/day max! You really only need it to keep the hCG effects fresh because w/ TBol and Dec, estro should not be a problem anyway w/ just 600mg test/wk. If you do more letro than that for 4 months, you will only promote estrogen rebound and oppose the hCG because it will inhibit steroidogenesis.

The rest looks good, but I would make these few little tweaks:

Tor. week 1-6, 120,90-120,60-90,60,30-60,30
ATD week 1-6, 25mg,25mg,25mg,50mg,50mg,50mg
Retain
wk 1-2: 3 caps/d
wk.3-4: 2 caps/d
wk.5-6: 1 cap/d

Cortisol only remains elevated to about wk3 usually, so you don't need all that retain usually but if it doesn't cause joint probs, go for it as high as you want.

The ATD use can be a modified inverted ramp because Tor is the bomb in the long stretch! This will save your libido too.

I reduced the Tor slightly at first because if you've never used it before, you will respond extra hard especially having done hCG all the way at 250-500iu twice/wk. Seriously, it is potent. You may or may not be able to get away with dropping to 90mg in wk2 depending on your response. Same with wk 3 and 5. The important thing is to go 6-8wks, even if it's just with 30mg.

Start with the Trib for wk1-3 and finish with the Fen wk4-6 or vise versa. Either way works, but it takes a higher dose of trib compared to the fen in my experience. 8 Twin Labs Trib caps = about 4-6 NOW fen caps in my experience. Hope this helps. Don't you just love post cycle therapy!

If you get a bottle of MassFX, you can use that in place of the trib and fen because it contains the sterols you need plus a fat dose of DVTHF which is really nice during PCT. :thumbsup:

 

[northern]

Mass FX

Mass FX, the product that Anabolic Extreme makes. Islandsupps says it is not out. Also what kind of dosage. I can not get an ingredients list, is it out yet and where would I find it?

Or do you mean another massfx?

 

[DR.D]

Mass FX, the product that Anabolic Extreme makes. Islandsupps says it is not out. Also what kind of dosage. I can not get an ingredients list, is it out yet and where would I find it?

Or do you mean another massfx?

Yeah, the AX product. It may not be out yet now that you mention it, but should be by November I think. It's a great formula. Add some toremifene with it and that's the best PCT a man can get.

 

[pistonpump]

.......If you get a bottle of MassFX, you can use that in place of the trib and fen because it contains the sterols you need plus a fat dose of DVTHF which is really nice during post cycle therapy. :thumbsup:

Dr. D what is DVTHF?

 

[northern]

I am curious about that too. Does anyone know why it is so cool (Dr.D does not have to reply but he damn well better lol.) I am curious why it is so good with PCT.

 

[TeamSavage]

Mass FX Ingredients:

Serving Size: 1
Servings Per Container: 120

Amount Per Serving: AX Proprietary Matrix: 530mg

Ingredients: (3b, 5a, 6a, 25R)-Spirostan-3,6-diol, 3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran, 6,7-dyhydroxybergamoltin, Bioperine

I'm guessing DVTHF = 3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran. That's also the active in DS ActivaTe. Unfortunately, neither AX nor DS tell you how much DVTHF is in either supplement.

 

[DR.D]

Mass FX Ingredients:

Serving Size: 1
Servings Per Container: 120

Amount Per Serving: AX Proprietary Matrix: 530mg

Ingredients: (3b, 5a, 6a, 25R)-Spirostan-3,6-diol, 3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran, 6,7-dyhydroxybergamoltin, Bioperine

I'm guessing DVTHF = 3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran. That's also the active in DS ActivaTe. Unfortunately, neither AX nor DS tell you how much DVTHF is in either supplement.

Yes, that is correct. I just say DVTHF so I don't have to write out the whole name! Neither company tells you how much they put in their formulas, but I developed and tested both formulas so you can take my word for it when I tell you which is stronger.

 

[TeamSavage]

Neither company tells you how much they put in their formulas, but I developed and tested both formulas so you can take my word for it when I tell you which is stronger.

Dr D - So just to clarify, you're saying Mass FX contains substantially more DVTHF than ActivaTe?

 

[DR.D]

Dr D - So just to clarify, you're saying Mass FX contains substantially more DVTHF than ActivaTe?

Well, I can't speak for Activate because I haven't worked on that since August. I don't know if they have changed the formula and it is inappropriate for me to speculate. What I can say is that in my opinion, MFX is more efficacious unless that is the case. See, I can be politically correct when I have too!

 

[aspire210]

Well, I can't speak for Activate because I haven't worked on that since August. I don't know if they have changed the formula and it is inappropriate for me to speculate. What I can say is that in my opinion, MFX is more efficacious unless that is the case. See, I can be politically correct when I have too!

Not trying to hi-jack but seeing as mass-fx is basically already out now can you tell us the method of action for the 25R-diol? It sounds interesting i'm just curious how it works. Thank you. Also, hopefully you got all of that crap sorted out that happened while you were on vacation. Message board drama is always fun.

 

[DR.D]

Not trying to hi-jack but seeing as mass-fx is basically already out now can you tell us the method of action for the 25R-diol? It sounds interesting i'm just curious how it works. Thank you. Also, hopefully you got all of that crap sorted out that happened while you were on vacation. Message board drama is always fun.

No, not really. I'm honestly not aware of the depth of it, though I know it got pretty F'ed up. I work with AX (and I have my reasons) but I was working with IBE first and have totally different product ideas going with them so I hate to see all the drama. It was my fault for being gone too long and a few people jumped to the wrong conclusions as things unfolded. I think it is straight now with those that really matter. I will gladly answer any questions you guys have because I still don't understand quite what happened! As far as RPN goes, I have no idea who sold them the epi, but I have a good guess that I will keep to myself for now. I do not know D so I have nothing bad to say about him unless he had something to say about me. Other than that, I probably should not comment too much on the 25R-diol because I am very much out of the loop at AX these days and am not sure what I can and can't say! If the info is available, I'd guess there would be a write up over there somewhere.

 

[aspire210]

Other than that, I probably should not comment too much on the 25R-diol because I am very much out of the loop at AX these days and am not sure what I can and can't say! If the info is available, I'd guess there would be a write up over there somewhere.

Well I asked the same question in the AX forum and I got a PM from BigSmith, who I am assuming is owner of AX, and he said that you were getting caught up on the drama and that you would get to my question soon. Maybe I read into it wrong but I figured it was ok to disclose the method of action then. I could easily be wrong though.

I'm actually mainly interested in this product because you developed it. I've tried your pct models and despite the nay-sayers, I have had my best pcts with them. I don't crash nearly as much with your models. This gives me faith in your ideas, which massfx is apperently one of.

If I'm not mistaken hasn't the product already begun to ship to retailors? I don't know how much longer you guys can with hold in the informaiton if you want serious buyers. Then again, I guess there is enough people willing to try the latest and greatest new supplement that the first shipment should easily sell out with no real information about the product. I just don't trust supplement companies anymore after myself having fallen for some of the scams. Not that I think Massfx is a scam, but I don't even know whats really in it and its about to be sold on the open market.

I understand if you can't give information because its not necessarily your call, but since it will be wide spread in stores in a couple of days I don't see why AX still wants to keep everything underwraps.

 

[DR.D]

... I understand if you can't give information because its not necessarily your call, but since it will be wide spread in stores in a couple of days I don't see why AX still wants to keep everything underwraps.

I don't do politics very well and I'm trying to keep the peace right now! Let me verify it's cool to talk about and I'll get back to you on the answer. I am unsure of the availability. I told you I am not a business man and am way out of the loop. I am just a scientist! I am a simple man.

 

[aspire210]

I don't do politics very well and I'm trying to keep the peace right now! Let me verify it's cool to talk about and I'll get back to you on the answer. I am unsure of the availability. I told you I am not a business man and am way out of the loop. I am just a scientist! I am a simple man.

Its cool, I don't think this product is going to be pulled anytime soon so no rush. I know you help as much as you can. I've just been racking my brain trying to figure out how it works. As far as I know, with my basic understanding of endocrinology, you can only boost endogenous test via 3 real ways

1) lowering estrogen count and tricking the body into thinking that it isnt making enough testosterone to be converted into estrogen

2) Some sort of LH hormone production increase, hCG, etc

3) I guess it would be possible to not allow testosterone to connect to the androgen receptor, but this wouldn't help in muscle building

I would bet its #2 in some way since you it has been stated that one should run an AI then MassFx is obviously not one and #3 I wouldn't know how to accomplish or how it would benefit.

I'm not expecting answers I'm just thinking out loud. Thank you for any help or answers you can provide if/when given the green light though.

 

[xtraflossy]

Its cool, I don't think this product is going to be pulled anytime soon so no rush. I know you help as much as you can. I've just been racking my brain trying to figure out how it works. As far as I know, with my basic understanding of endocrinology, you can only boost endogenous test via 3 real ways

1) lowering estrogen count and tricking the body into thinking that it isnt making enough testosterone to be converted into estrogen

2) Some sort of LH hormone production increase, hCG, etc

3) I guess it would be possible to not allow testosterone to connect to the androgen receptor, but this wouldn't help in muscle building

I would bet its #2 in some way since you it has been stated that one should run an AI then MassFx is obviously not one and #3 I wouldn't know how to accomplish or how it would benefit.

I'm not expecting answers I'm just thinking out loud. Thank you for any help or answers you can provide if/when given the green light though.

I beleive that an AI is suggested becasue you'll get more conversion to estrogen from the free'd up test. The same way the Activate/Rebound stach works. The AI, in addition to preventing the conversion, keeps the unbound test floating around longer.
- but, this is just from what I understand.

 

[DR.D]

... I understand if you can't give information because its not necessarily your call, but since it will be wide spread in stores in a couple of days I don't see why AX still wants to keep everything underwraps.

I'm helping an AX rep form a write up now, so don't think I forgot. I'm sure they'll post it on their board or their forum here. That way I don't have to explain it a gillion different times!

 

[aspire210]

I'm helping an AX rep form a write up now, so don't think I forgot. I'm sure they'll post it on their board or their forum here. That way I don't have to explain it a gillion different times!

Can you explain the difference between the main active in MassFX and 25R, Spirostan-5A-Diol-6-one-3-one from a chemical stand point? AX reps have told me they are different, but no one will elaborate, I would expect the difference is only nomenclature. The one I posted actually looks like bad nomenclature, but I'm by no means an expert on such.

 

[DR.D]

Can you explain the difference between the main active in MassFX and 25R, Spirostan-5A-Diol-6-one-3-one from a chemical stand point? AX reps have told me they are different, but no one will elaborate, I would expect the difference is only nomenclature. The one I posted actually looks like bad nomenclature, but I'm by no means an expert on such.

Yes, good question. I will make sure to explain that to them too so that it's included in their write up.