Liver enzmes in the 800s

[nonidentity]

1 week after finishing dbol liver enzymes are in the 800s. Only did 6 weeks at 30mg/day. Dr. Thinks its from the EQ and Test and not the dbol. Could he be right?
Is 800 something to worry about?


*I did cycle support for the first 4 weeks of dbol, with 2 scps a day.

Kinda worried... :/

 

[T-Bone]

Are talking about ALT/AST levels?. I guess it would depend on the reference range, but my last blood work the reference range for ALT is 0-70 and 0-40 for AST. So yeah, if those are both in the 800's, then I would say you are gonna need a new liver....

 

[T-Bone]

Are you sure you didn't mean 80's and not 800's?

 

[ssbackwards]

ive seen levels that high.

did they do a Hepatitis screening? they usually do, but high enzymes are not unusual. havent seen them this high in a long time. diet, as well as exercise can raise them ontop of what the hormones can do.

clean your diet up, get some NAC (which is what i like), milk thistle can help lower Nf-KappaB which directly correlates to liver inflammation

 

[MuscleMD]

Liver enzyme levels in the 800's is extremely dangerous. Those numbers are indicative of acute hepatitis. You need to stop whatever your running immediately and do follow up labs. And if your doctor didnt tell you this then you need to find another doctor while your at it. Dont mean to scare you bro but thats the truth. Good news is it should be reversible if taken care of right away.

 

[nonidentity]

My diet is ridiculously clean. Even when I bulk I only cheat 1x or 2x a week.I did do an STD test but I've only had one sexual partner "and 1 bj from another girl once". Me and my gf always use a condom for vaginal sex an only "tried" anal once for like 20seconds without a condom, but we quit bc it was too painful. My liver showed no inflammation on ultrasound. I'm kind of freaking out. He def. Said 800....

 

[MuscleMD]

A bad diet couldn't cause numbers that high and doesnt sound like you have many risk factors for hep c unless youve ever recieved blood transfusions? Do you know your specific enzyme levels AST/ALT/ALK phos? Bili? No inflammation or fatty liver is great news. It has to be what your running man, your putting to much strain on your liver.

 

[nonidentity]

I don't drink alcohol at all. I made sure I got 2gallons of water ED and my cycle is 6weeks of dbol@30mg/day, 600mg of EQ, and 500mg of Test... It's a fairly light cycle so why am I reacting soo badly?? I actually wanted to try to make a career out of bodybuilding and if I'm this sensitive it seems like it's a lost cause.... :'( ...

 

[T-Bone]

Go the natural bodybuilding route...Seriously I would make an appointment with a hepatologist. Or get a referral from your gp.

 

[jiggero]

"tried" anal once for like 20seconds without a condom, but we quit bc it was too painful. I'm kind of freaking out...

And for petes sake stop doing anal, i'm not sure but i don't think it's helping matters.

 

[nonidentity]

Lol! Anal's cool! But yea.. I wish I had the paper to post... Would the injectables affect the liver much at my doses?

 

[nonidentity]

Go the natural bodybuilding route...Seriously I would make an appointment with a hepatologist. Or get a referral from your gp.

I tried natty building for several years and gave of 100%, but could never get big and cut. I'm skinny fat, so I'm essentially pollution in the human gene pool . I hope this passes but if it doesn't I think I might be okay with a shortened life.. I mean what's the point of living if you have nothing to be proud of?.. I read 4 books on AAS before starting and a TON of reading online, I was as safe as possible, and my workouts and nutrition are spot-on as far as I can tell. If my nutrition on workout is lacking it's bc of a knowledge problem, not a willpower problem. I eat CLEAN all year round... I'm determined to be a champion and I'll do whatever it takes to keep progressing...

 

[T-Bone]

I think I might be okay with a shortened life.. I mean what's the point of living if you have nothing to be proud of?

Maybe you should re-examine your life and your priorities. There is much more to life than bodybuilding. Sorry I don't know what to say as I'm not qualified to give an answer to you. There is no shame in seeing someone for therapy. I have before and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Wish I could be of more help.

 

[nonidentity]

Maybe you should re-examine your life and your priorities. There is much more to life than bodybuilding. Sorry I don't know what to say as I'm not qualified to give an answer to you. There is no shame in seeing someone for therapy. I have before and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Wish I could be of more help.

There's honestly not a lot more to my life... I wish there were... I Really really hope this is just a bad reaction to the dbol.... :/

 

[vidapreta]

There's honestly not a lot more to my life... I wish there were... I Really really hope this is just a bad reaction to the dbol.... :/

You're gonna bounce back bro, the liver is pretty resilient like that. T-bone went through something similar with superdrol I believe, and his condition was more severe than yours and he bounced back.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk

 

[rebelhead]

Lol! Anal's cool! But yea.. I wish I had the paper to post... Would the injectables affect the liver much at my doses?

the injectables should not cause liver enzymes to increase. ur doc, like most, knows little or nothing about aas. i read an article in mm2k a few years ago where they interviewed several random md's about aas. u wouldn't believe some of the sh1t they said about roids. about half of them even stated that anabolic steroids are INeffective for building muscle mass. a couple even confused anabolic steroids with corticosteroids.
i would be tempted to get another blood test. 800 doesn't sound right. a friend of mine had high enzymes one time and they sent him for a hep c test. it was negative but he was addicted to vicodin so i assumed the tylenol did it. he ate about 20-30 of them a day. i think he contracted it later from shootin up, because he tested positive for it a couple years later.
my brother had cirrhosis from alcohol. he got sick and his abdomen swelled up. his blood showed only slightly elevated enzyme levels.

 

[EVILADAMS]

1 week after finishing dbol liver enzymes are in the 800s. Only did 6 weeks at 30mg/day. Dr. Thinks its from the EQ and Test and not the dbol. Could he be right?
Is 800 something to worry about?


*I did cycle support for the first 4 weeks of dbol, with 2 scps a day.

Kinda worried... :/

I've ALT counts in the 600's before. The ALT count is the true indicator of liver damage. Your AST count can be high from lifting or even getting an inoculation (example; flu shot). You'll bounce back. Just stop with the Dbol. High doses of EQ can damage the liver too. Basically what you have is acute hepatitis. Your liver is pissed. IMO most support supps are B.S. The positive results report about milk thistle, 99% of the time come from studies on its effects on alcohol related liver issues, not AAS liver issues. They may be interchangeable but I've seen disputes. Once you are off everything you will see a steady decline in the ALT number. By steady I mean almost like clockwork. 800 to 750 to 650 to 600 etc....

 

[rebelhead]

I've ALT counts in the 600's before. The ALT count is the true indicator of liver damage. Your AST count can be high from lifting or even getting an inoculation (example; flu shot). You'll bounce back. Just stop with the Dbol. High doses of EQ can damage the liver too. Basically what you have is acute hepatitis. Your liver is pissed. IMO most support supps are B.S. The positive results report about milk thistle, 99% of the time come from studies on its effects on alcohol related liver issues, not AAS liver issues. They may be interchangeable but I've seen disputes. Once you are off everything you will see a steady decline in the ALT number. By steady I mean almost like clockwork. 800 to 750 to 650 to 600 etc....

there is also evidence to suggest that milk thistle may be detrimental to ur cycle by affecting the androgen receptor.
btw to OP ,if i could get injectables as u clearly can i wouldn't even take orals. they all make me feel like crap, kill my appetite, and make me tired all the time. i may be wrong but imo stacks are over rated. the test alone should do u right. i cant really tell the difference in gains from a stack or a solo cycle at the end of the day.

 

[schwellington]

800 is absolutely insane I did a SIX month cycle which included dbol trenbolone winstrol turinabol and one other oral along with testosterone and deca


Did I stack these all at once? No but my liver values where nowhere near 800 they where high as fock but that's just nuts


I think that if you don't have hep c you have something genetic going on with your liver no way in hell the steroids caused that but throw steroids in with some genetic disorder having to do with the liver and I could see that for sure . Find a new doc

 

[EVILADAMS]

there is also evidence to suggest that milk thistle may be detrimental to ur cycle by affecting the androgen receptor.
btw to OP ,if i could get injectables as u clearly can i wouldn't even take orals. they all make me feel like crap, kill my appetite, and make me tired all the time. i may be wrong but imo stacks are over rated. the test alone should do u right. i cant really tell the difference in gains from a stack or a solo cycle at the end of the day.

Nope, I'm not saying its detrimental at all. If it gives people piece of mind then I'm all for it. I'm just saying I've taking it before while taking orals and it didn't stop the enzymes from going up and didn't bring them down any faster. Thats all.

800 is absolutely insane I did a SIX month cycle which included dbol trenbolone winstrol turinabol and one other oral along with testosterone and deca


Did I stack these all at once? No but my liver values where nowhere near 800 they where high as fock but that's just nuts


I think that if you don't have hep c you have something genetic going on with your liver no way in hell the steroids caused that but throw steroids in with some genetic disorder having to do with the liver and I could see that for sure . Find a new doc

i've been in the high 600's. Too many methyls at once back in the day. Thats why I stick with injectables and maybe some Vars.

 

[nonidentity]

there is also evidence to suggest that milk thistle may be detrimental to ur cycle by affecting the androgen receptor.
btw to OP ,if i could get injectables as u clearly can i wouldn't even take orals. they all make me feel like crap, kill my appetite, and make me tired all the time. i may be wrong but imo stacks are over rated. the test alone should do u right. i cant really tell the difference in gains from a stack or a solo cycle at the end of the day.

This was my first time using an oral so I didn't know how I would re-act. But I agree, I hated it. I hated keeping up with pills, and my gains weren't even close to what I get with test. Why on earth do they call it "the king of mass"?

 

[nonidentity]

I've ALT counts in the 600's before. The ALT count is the true indicator of liver damage. Your AST count can be high from lifting or even getting an inoculation (example; flu shot). You'll bounce back. Just stop with the Dbol. High doses of EQ can damage the liver too. Basically what you have is acute hepatitis. Your liver is pissed. IMO most support supps are B.S. The positive results report about milk thistle, 99% of the time come from studies on its effects on alcohol related liver issues, not AAS liver issues. They may be interchangeable but I've seen disputes. Once you are off everything you will see a steady decline in the ALT number. By steady I mean almost like clockwork. 800 to 750 to 650 to 600 etc....

I had no idea that EQ could damage your liver.. I thought it was safer than test. How high are we talking? Multiple grams? Mine is only 600mg/wk

 

[ssbackwards]

A bad diet couldn't cause numbers that high and doesnt sound like you have many risk factors for hep c unless youve ever recieved blood transfusions? Do you know your specific enzyme levels AST/ALT/ALK phos? Bili? No inflammation or fatty liver is great news. It has to be what your running man, your putting to much strain on your liver.

im not saying they will cause them that high, i am saying they can raise them as well as exercise and can add to those numbers being that high.

however its obvious not the cause.

no inflammations good, but id stop. also when were the tests done? within the half life how long after the orals administration. These can effect numbers as well.

 

[EVILADAMS]

This was my first time using an oral so I didn't know how I would re-act. But I agree, I hated it. I hated keeping up with pills, and my gains weren't even close to what I get with test. Why on earth do they call it "the king of mass"?

Like I said, stop with the dbol and EQ. Your enzymes may continue to climb a little higher before the come back down. Initially I was in the 500's before spiking in the 650's if I remember correctly (mid 600's not high 600's like I previously stated.) Just relax, as long as your eye whites aren't yellow. Unless you have seriously something wrong (non AAs related), you will be fine. The liver is tough and resilient.

 

[rebelhead]

This was my first time using an oral so I didn't know how I would re-act. But I agree, I hated it. I hated keeping up with pills, and my gains weren't even close to what I get with test. Why on earth do they call it "the king of mass"?

thats terrible luck bro if the test was accurate. i have done 60mg a day of m1t stacked with tren acetate and test for 6 weeks and my levels went up about 20 points. and i drank heavy for years.

 

[rebelhead]

I had no idea that EQ could damage your liver.. I thought it was safer than test. How high are we talking? Multiple grams? Mine is only 600mg/wk

i would like to see some evidence of this. its new to me.

 

[EVILADAMS]

I had no idea that EQ could damage your liver.. I thought it was safer than test. How high are we talking? Multiple grams? Mine is only 600mg/wk

High doses. 600mg I've read is the minimal dose per week to see beneficial effects. I've also read you can see beneficial effects at 400mg per week but I wouldn't know because I do not run it that low. My EQ is 200mg per ml. I don't know the exact dose that is considered "high" but I wouldn't exceed 1000mg a week. You're talking five shots of EQ on top of what ever else you are injecting. Ouch.

 

[EVILADAMS]

i would like to see some evidence of this. its new to me.

Well I can't personally prove it myself but just google something along the lines of "liver damage on boldenone". **** will come up.

 

[rebelhead]

Well I can't personally prove it myself but just google something along the lines of "liver damage on boldenone". **** will come up.

well this is the only legit study i could find and i'm not convinced. it was done on rabbits. eq was tested on humans in the 60's.
http://www.ergo-log.com/boldenoneliver.html

 

[MuscleMD]

Here is the breakdown. Many drugs, including AAS and prescription meds, even at low doses can cause severe hepatic reactions to certain individuals depending on your genetic predisposition. Looks like you may have been dealt a bad hand. Stop the dbol and allow your liver to heal itself. If your that insistent on using roids then later on you may try a different cycle with CLOSE follow up. This is not something you want to take easy by any means.

 

[EVILADAMS]

well this is the only legit study i could find and i'm not convinced. it was done on rabbits. eq was tested on humans in the 60's.
http://www.ergo-log.com/boldenoneliver.html

Here is another
http://www.isteroids.com/Equipoise/Equipoise_Cycles.html
"Equipoise cycle done for 12 weeks will be optimal. The recommended dosage in an Equipoise cycle is 200-400mg per week. Anything beyond that can cause potential liver damage."

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-equipoise-cycle.htm
"Long term side effects include stunted growth,liver damage, high blood pressure, stroke, heart enlargement, and addiction to the steroid."

http://www.steroidsrx.com/Articles/Equipose.cfm

http://www.steroidsideeffects.net/equipoise.html
"Equipoise Side Effects; Anxiety, liver damage, high blood pressureand acne are commone Equipoise side effects."

Like I said, I can't personally prove it though.

 

[rebelhead]

Here is another http://www.isteroids.com/Equipoise/Equipoise_Cycles.html"Equipoise cycle done for 12 weeks will be optimal. The recommended dosage in an Equipoise cycle is 200-400mg per week. Anything beyond that can cause potential liver damage."http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-equipoise-cycle.htm "Long term side effects include stunted growth,liver damage, high blood pressure, stroke, heart enlargement, and addiction to the steroid."http://www.steroidsrx.com/Articles/Equipose.cfmhttp://www.steroidsideeffects.net/equipoise.html"Equipoise Side Effects; Anxiety, liver damage, high blood pressureand acne are commone Equipoise side effects."Like I said, I can't personally prove it though.

those sites are making statement without anything to back it up. they dont give references to support their claims. its kinda like the thing about fina damaging the kidneys. it sounds true but lacks any scientific evidence.

 

[EVILADAMS]

those sites are making statement without anything to back it up. they dont give references to support their claims. its kinda like the thing about fina damaging the kidneys. it sounds true but lacks any scientific evidence.

Thats fine. This really isn't an issue for me.

 

[Bigchourico]

And for petes sake stop doing anal, i'm not sure but i don't think it's helping matters.

:rofl:funny sh! t I think anal only effects the kidneys.

 

[nonidentity]

thanks for all the replies, it makes me feel a lot better! I'm just gonna keep the EQ and Test, and do follow up blood work to see if it starts to go down, if it doesn't I'll pull the plug on the cycle completely.
I forgot to mention that I had 2 different blood tests done. the first was while i was on dbol and my liver enzymes were around 260 I think. the second test was a week afterward BUT on the second test I wasn't allowed to drink anything or eat anything after midnight the night before. I'm thinking that when you do a normal test the water dilutes your 'blood?' and maybe shows them as lower. So maybe i'm really just around 300 and the dehydration made it seem too high?

 

[MuscleMD]

Im sorry dude but your logic is completely off. Your BUN/CR reflect your hydration status. It does not effect your liver enzymes. Even a level in the 200-300 is much to elevated. Your liver reflects that of 10 year alcoholic.

thanks for all the replies, it makes me feel a lot better! I'm just gonna keep the EQ and Test, and do follow up blood work to see if it starts to go down, if it doesn't I'll pull the plug on the cycle completely.
I forgot to mention that I had 2 different blood tests done. the first was while i was on dbol and my liver enzymes were around 260 I think. the second test was a week afterward BUT on the second test I wasn't allowed to drink anything or eat anything after midnight the night before. I'm thinking that when you do a normal test the water dilutes your 'blood?' and maybe shows them as lower. So maybe i'm really just around 300 and the dehydration made it seem too high?

 

[jiggero]

Your liver reflects that of 10 year alcoholic.

A 10 year alcoholic isn't dosen't look jacked.

 

[jiggero]

i mean not that it makes it any better in the end

 

[MuscleMD]

Drink a pint of vodka everyday for 10 years and lets test it out...lol.

A 10 year alcoholic isn't dosen't look jacked.

 

[rebelhead]

Drink a pint of vodka everyday for 10 years and lets test it out...lol.

i've pretty much done that and more in the past. a pint prob wont do it. possibly a 1/5 and a 12 pack a day? maybe i should be tested. lol

 

[rebelhead]

thanks for all the replies, it makes me feel a lot better! I'm just gonna keep the EQ and Test, and do follow up blood work to see if it starts to go down, if it doesn't I'll pull the plug on the cycle completely.
I forgot to mention that I had 2 different blood tests done. the first was while i was on dbol and my liver enzymes were around 260 I think. the second test was a week afterward BUT on the second test I wasn't allowed to drink anything or eat anything after midnight the night before. I'm thinking that when you do a normal test the water dilutes your 'blood?' and maybe shows them as lower. So maybe i'm really just around 300 and the dehydration made it seem too high?

hey dude, do u mean a combined level? u know all added together? 200 -300 is still very high. mine never went more than 20-30- points over normal after a high dose m1t cycle. i would be worried if i were u. i would try and get to the bottom of this.
here are mine after 4ad-prop, 1- test cyp, and m1t. i was still on the m1t at the time of the test.
bilirubin total 0.2 mg/dl
alkaline phosphate serum 108 iu/l
LDH 276 IU/L
AST (SGOT) 57 IU/L
alt (sgpt) 33 iu/l
ggt 16 iu/l

 

[MuscleMD]

These numbers are actually normal minus the AST which when elevated without an elevation in ALT usually means your a drinker....lol your story pans out rebelhead...hahaha

hey dude, do u mean a combined level? u know all added together? 200 -300 is still very high. mine never went more than 20-30- points over normal after a high dose m1t cycle. i would be worried if i were u. i would try and get to the bottom of this.
here are mine after 4ad-prop, 1- test cyp, and m1t. i was still on the m1t at the time of the test.
bilirubin total 0.2 mg/dl
alkaline phosphate serum 108 iu/l
LDH 276 IU/L
AST (SGOT) 57 IU/L
alt (sgpt) 33 iu/l
ggt 16 iu/l

 

[HondaV65]

I just don't understand this topic. OP says he has liv enzymes in the "800's" ... which enzymes and on what kind of measurement scale?

I had a gallstone once ... and it blocked my common bile duct for 2 weeks before docs figured out what was going on. They didn't even get excited until my eyeballs turned yellow and my urine turned the color of merlot wine ...

I felt like ABSOLUTE **** for those two weeks ... and I LOOKED LIKE **** for those two weeks. I don't know what my liver enzymes were in the end but I can tell you hoss - when your liver is inflamed like that you feel it - and it feels very damn bad.

And yet - the OP is out there having "anal" ... LOL - sex was the last thing on my mind when I had my problem!

 

[jiggero]

I just don't understand this topic. OP says he has liv enzymes in the "800's" ..

And yet - the OP is out there having "anal" ... LOL - sex was the last thing on my mind when I had my problem!

I'm not sure but I think that the anal might have caused his problem.

 

[vidapreta]

I'm not sure but I think that the anal might have caused his problem.

If that were the case then there would be alot of homosexuals needing liver transplants!:rofl:

 

[nonidentity]

I just don't understand this topic. OP says he has liv enzymes in the "800's" ... which enzymes and on what kind of measurement scale?

I had a gallstone once ... and it blocked my common bile duct for 2 weeks before docs figured out what was going on. They didn't even get excited until my eyeballs turned yellow and my urine turned the color of merlot wine ...

I felt like ABSOLUTE **** for those two weeks ... and I LOOKED LIKE **** for those two weeks. I don't know what my liver enzymes were in the end but I can tell you hoss - when your liver is inflamed like that you feel it - and it feels very damn bad.

And yet - the OP is out there having "anal" ... LOL - sex was the last thing on my mind when I had my problem!

I haven't had sex in 6 months! I'm in a long distance relationship and I don't cheat. but hopefully I'll get more anal in January when I get to see my babe! I hate condoms

 

[rebelhead]

These numbers are actually normal minus the AST which when elevated without an elevation in ALT usually means your a drinker....lol your story pans out rebelhead...hahaha

i was actually alcohol free for a couple of years when that test was taken. but i drank everyday for the previous 10 years. i was takin 100mg of methadone ed at the time though. i dont think that messes with ur liver. lol