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Liquidex or Letro for my test cycle?

d00fy

New member
Just wondering which one should i get for my test cycle? i have pre existing gyno from lame m1t/4ad cycle , i think its getting better since i been taking nolvadex at 40mg for the past 2weeks but as far as starting my test cycle soooooon i wanna know what will be better for keep the bloat super low,estrogen low and not flaring up my gyno

during my cycle i will take 20mg nolvadex ED
 
nolva is best for gyno. letro and adex are for bloat. also, letro increases IGF levels. adex increases test levels.
 
Letro is the next generation of arimidex.. It is superior. I have used it in the past with excellent results.. For me .75-1mg EOD was good enough, you don't want to decrease too much estrogen, unless you are preparing for a show.

Run it with nolvadex aswell. 10-20mg ED
 
okay, first of all nolvadex actually blocks estrogen at it's receptor site, which just so happens to be the same as the androgen receptor, thus reducing the effect of the androgen you're taking BIG TIME, arimidex, or letrozole actually binds to the circulating estrogen and destroys it.
 
Ript22Swole said:
okay, first of all nolvadex actually blocks estrogen at it's receptor site, which just so happens to be the same as the androgen receptor, thus reducing the effect of the androgen you're taking BIG TIME, arimidex, or letrozole actually binds to the circulating estrogen and destroys it.
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Uhh...no.

That is completely wrong. The ER and AR act and are completely different from each other. Nolvadex had zero effect on the potency (androgenic effects) of the androgen you are taking. IT binds to the receptor blocking estrogen from binding to the ER therefore eliminating its effects.

Arimidex and Letrozole do NOT bind to estrogen and "destroy it". It binds to the aromatase enzyme blocking the conversion of testosterone to estrogen therefore lowering plasma estrogen levels.
 
d00fy said:
Just wondering which one should i get for my test cycle? i have pre existing gyno from lame m1t/4ad cycle , i think its getting better since i been taking nolvadex at 40mg for the past 2weeks but as far as starting my test cycle soooooon i wanna know what will be better for keep the bloat super low,estrogen low and not flaring up my gyno

during my cycle i will take 20mg nolvadex ED
Click to expand...

Nolvadex is the only thing you need. Stop worrying about the bloat so much, its actually better for you (in terms of gains) than lowering estrogen to subphysiological levels. If it becomes too much, run Arimidex at a LOW dose.
 
It seems as if you are gyno prone - I would run the nolva @ 80mg a day (120 if it was liquid) until the gyno is gone or remissed. During the cycle stick to letro or dex + nolva. like was mentioned before nolva decreases the concentrations of letro by ~ 40%.
 
Another thing that really helped me with controlling bloat was severely lowering my sodium intake. I hardly get any sodium during the day now and bloat is not an issue at all.
 
Beelzebub said:
Another thing that really helped me with controlling bloat was severely lowering my sodium intake. I hardly get any sodium during the day now and bloat is not an issue at all.
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Pretty much all I need to do as well. Eat a sodium laden meal and you are sure to gain a few pounds.
 
If really worried I would suggest letro over adex and nolva.

I have pre existing gyno and am cycling with 2100mgs 4ad cyp and 800 mg 1 test cyp for 10 weeks.

I have been using 1.25 mg of letro ed and was using 10 mg nolva to help with lipid profiles and to keep the direct receptors on beast tissue blocked. Now I bumped it up to 20 mgs of nolva ed because i noticed that feeling of growth and its fine now.

I guess I am extremely gyno prone damn it!!! Kind scared to come off now with just nolvadex.

I do have a question though I have heard of many people suggesting to double the dose of liquid nolva because it is not as strong as the capped powder but how can this be right?

asumming you shake everytime before use it mixes up nicely and looks just as much as the unsuspended counterpart.
 
Bobo said:
Nolvadex is the only thing you need. Stop worrying about the bloat so much, its actually better for you (in terms of gains) than lowering estrogen to subphysiological levels. If it becomes too much, run Arimidex at a LOW dose.
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There needs to be no more discussion, this post says it all. I have been cycling over a decade, never used anything but nolva and clomid, I have tried the others, always ended back on nolva.
 
BryanM said:
I do have a question though I have heard of many people suggesting to double the dose of liquid nolva because it is not as strong as the capped powder but how can this be right?

asumming you shake everytime before use it mixes up nicely and looks just as much as the unsuspended counterpart.
Click to expand...
It works out that you need to take about 1.5 times the amount of tamoxifen citrate to equal 1x tamoxifen. 60mgs tamox citrate = 40mgs tamox. The pills are also this way, but the manufacturer compensates for the difference in the pill.
 
Neuromancer said:
It works out that you need to take about 1.5 times the amount of tamoxifen citrate to equal 1x tamoxifen. 60mgs tamox citrate = 40mgs tamox. The pills are also this way, but the manufacturer compensates for the difference in the pill.
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So its the actual citrate molocule that is taking up that much extra weight good to know.
 
Would liquidex alone with retain and maybe active be good enough for PCT?
Will be coming off 3 weeks of M5aa @ 60mgs pd followed by 3 weeks of SD @ 30mgs per day. (6 weeks total)
 
workin2005 said:
Would liquidex alone with retain and maybe active be good enough for PCT?
Will be coming off 3 weeks of M5aa @ 60mgs pd followed by 3 weeks of SD @ 30mgs per day. (6 weeks total)
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NO!

Good job on researching, I commend you for that but did you read what was posted above? You don't take an AI post cycle, you need a SERM to kick start T from the negative feed back loop in your system. If you can get LDex you can get Tamoxifen Citrate, and even so there is still ATD aka Rebound XT/Ultra HOtter.

Out of all the recent PCT threads why did you think to search for liquidex as to assist in PCT? And next time try to get this done before you even start... :trout: Can't seem to stress that enough these days.


EDIT: I did some searching because I couldn't remember exactly how Nolva worked in regards to SBHG/HTPA but here is an excellent post (by the Head Clown himself..) that covers what I said.. It's basically Bobo putting the kaboish on PArnold advising someone to use a AI for PCT, but Bobo gives references. Invalid Link Removed
 
I already have the liqidex, and can run reboundXT with it if needed as you are sugesting. Are you saying not to run Liquidex at all for pct, even with something like Reboundxt or Nolvadex xt?
 
workin2005 said:
I already have the liqidex, and can run reboundXT with it if needed as you are sugesting. Are you saying not to run Liquidex at all for pct, even with something like Reboundxt or Nolvadex xt?
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Come on now workin'... Don't make me quote myself...

JonesersRX7 said:
NO!

...... You don't take an AI post cycle, you need a SERM to kick start T from the negative feed back loop in your system. ....
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Now, I did edit my post so read the link I added, twice if you have to.
 
also, letro increases IGF levels.
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bump bobo I didn't know that do you have material to back that up ?

Letro is the next generation of arimidex.. It is superior. I have used it in the past with excellent results.. For me .75-1mg EOD was good enough, you don't want to decrease too much estrogen, unless you are preparing for a show.
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I think it also got strong anti progestional activity,
 
french_muscle said:
bump bobo I didn't know that do you have material to back that up ?

I think it also got strong anti progestional activity,
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quick search on pubmed...

J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 1997 Nov-Dec;63(4-6):261-7.Invalid Link Removed Links

[size=+1]The aromatase inhibitor letrozole in advanced breast cancer: effects on serum insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-I and IGF-binding protein-3 levels.[/size]

Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed.

Medical Oncology B Division, Istituto Nazionale per lo Studio e la Cura dei Tumori, Milan, Italy.

Serum insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-I and IGF-binding protein-3 levels were measured in two groups of postmenopausal women with advanced breast cancer, who received the aromatase inhibitor letrozole 0.5 or 2.5 mg p.o. once daily. Blood samples were obtained from 15 patients in each dose group at baseline, and one and three months after starting therapy. Circulating IGF-I and IGFBP-3 concentrations were determined by means of radioimmunoassay. In both dosage groups a statistically significant increase in the IGF-I levels was observed during three months of letrozole treatment (P=0.003). In addition, the multiple testing procedure yielded in the whole patient population a significant result in the comparison between mean IGF-I values after three months of therapy and those observed at baseline (P=0.004), the estimated average increase being of 24%. No significant result was obtained in the analysis for the dose effect (P=0.077) and for the time x dose interaction (P=0.208). Circulating IGFBP-3 levels did not appear to be affected by letrozole treatment in either of the dose groups. This is the first report concerning the short-term effects of letrozole on components of the IGF system in breast cancer patients; further investigations are warranted in order to confirm these preliminary data.

Publication Types:
  • Clinical Trial
  • Multicenter Study
  • Randomized Controlled Trial
PMID: 9459192 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
workin2005 said:
ok, so liquidex on cycle, reboundxt, or nolva off cycle.
Thanks! :dance:
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Any AI on cycle - Only if bloat becomes unbearable and with your posted cycle, it wont.
Nolva on cycle - Only if gyno prone or you feel itchy nips/onset.
Nolva off cycle - Yes.....
 
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