Let's Flame RA Thread!!!

RA, ive seen your "buddy's" bloodwork on DA forum(who shares the same views). It didnt look so hot. I dont know how that would compare with bloodwork had he have done the same cycle with SERM in PCT but, im pretty damn sure it would be (better) . Now with that being said i apprieciate your open mindedness about using a SERM next cycle. Although you may not feel ill or shutdown, you have no way to tell and SERM's are clinically proven to aid in our purposes during PCT (over AI). It would also seem from your last cycle you are still in PCT, why is that?
 
pistonpump said:
RA, ive seen your "buddy's" bloodwork on DA forum(who shares the same views). It didnt look so hot. I dont know how that would compare with bloodwork had he have done the same cycle with SERM in post cycle therapy but, im pretty damn sure it would be (better) . Now with that being said i apprieciate your open mindedness about using a SERM next cycle. Although you may not feel ill or shutdown, you have no way to tell and SERM's are clinically proven to aid in our purposes during PCT (over AI). It would also seem from your last cycle you are still in PCT, why is that?
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Why am I still in PCT??? lol because it hasnt even been 4 weeks yet dude.
 
motiv8er said:
Trust me, some of us had this debate years ago.

WHat PHs dont require a SERM man?
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Well from my own usage Halodrol-50, Propadrol, Orastan-E. I had bloodwork done both times and everything is normal besides my liver enzymes were a tad high. Not enough to show concern from my dr.

Now as I have stated in another thread like this if I were to run stronger harsher compunds I would def use a SERM. I am pulsing now and have a SERM on hand even though I don't expect to use it but its there just in case. Torme is what I have on hand.

Whoever said that we come from a PH/OTC PTC board thats not true. Yes alot of guys there feel SERM's aren't a must for everything. SERM's are talked about and recommend alot.

With all that said I like this board, one reason I came over here was to get away from all of the noob questions that were asked and to learn alot more on SERM's, PH's AAS's. Forgive the kinda long post I am working on 3 hrs sleep in the last 2 days.
 
pistonpump said:
RA, ive seen your "buddy's" bloodwork on DA forum(who shares the same views). It didnt look so hot. I dont know how that would compare with bloodwork had he have done the same cycle with SERM in post cycle therapy but, im pretty damn sure it would be (better) . Now with that being said i apprieciate your open mindedness about using a SERM next cycle. Although you may not feel ill or shutdown, you have no way to tell and SERM's are clinically proven to aid in our purposes during post cycle therapy (over AI). It would also seem from your last cycle you are still in post cycle therapy, why is that?
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mass fx contains davanil. it doesn't agree with me. 2 weeks later after switching to hypertest my low test levels were back to normal. (low test was 235 instead of 400+) ill provide blood work after this cycle as well.

besides, that blood work was after this:

Wks 1-3
Trenadrol 90mg
Bold 600mg

Wk 4
Trenadrol 90mg
Bold 600mg
Superdrol 20mg

Wk 5
Superdrol 20mg
Bold 600mg

Wk 6-7
Superdrol 30mg
Bold 600mg

Fully shutdown and 19lbs heavier. ;)
 
I know voodoo is going to jump down my throat as he does for parts of what I am about to say...which is part of the problem. Honestly, don't go and trash talk about a board that you post on, it's kinda an oxymoron.

RiseAgainst is a decent guy. I guess. Blackjack seems to boast for him and that is enough for me. But I haven't really seen him help anybody out. Then again I don't read through all of his posts, so I could miss a whole heck of a lot.

In the end things get thrown around like "he knows a lot" or "he is smart for his age," etc.

I have never once claimed to be an expert. I have never onced claimed that I am knowledgeable is anything. All I have ever said is that I have done some research, read of tons of opinions and based mine on them. I have freely given them.

But one thing that I feel passionate about is this...someone new to a DESIGNER STEROID should use a SERM. The reasons to use them far outweigh those to not. And when anyone tells someone that they don't have to because it suppositely worked for them (which I have yet to see scanned before and after bloodwork for). That advice can really mess people up.

Free discussion, yes. I am all for that. Hurting newer less knowledgeable guys, that's not cool with me.


Okay, with this, I am backing away. Like I did in that other thread. (i'm kinda sorry I unsubscribed when I did, sounds like it turned into a crazy thread)
 
PumpingIron said:
I know voodoo is going to jump down my throat as he does for parts of what I am about to say...which is part of the problem. Honestly, don't go and trash talk about a board that you post on, it's kinda an oxymoron.

RiseAgainst is a decent guy. I guess. Blackjack seems to boast for him and that is enough for me. But I haven't really seen him help anybody out. Then again I don't read through all of his posts, so I could miss a whole heck of a lot.

In the end things get thrown around like "he knows a lot" or "he is smart for his age," etc.

I have never once claimed to be an expert. I have never onced claimed that I am knowledgeable is anything. All I have ever said is that I have done some research, read of tons of opinions and based mine on them. I have freely given them.

But one thing that I feel passionate about is this...someone new to a DESIGNER STEROID should use a SERM. The reasons to use them far outweigh those to not. And when anyone tells someone that they don't have to because it suppositely worked for them (which I have yet to see scanned before and after bloodwork for). That advice can really mess people up.

Free discussion, yes. I am all for that. Hurting newer less knowledgeable guys, that's not cool with me.


Okay, with this, I am backing away. Like I did in that other thread. (i'm kinda sorry I unsubscribed when I did, sounds like it turned into a crazy thread)
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Nah you're fine man to each his own, I just choose to run it all SERM free. Ive given up on even suggesting anything other than the standard.

As for the other thread I dont even know what happened with it, I think I posted once after that? As I always say "ask me how much I care..." ;)
 
PumpingIron said:
I know voodoo is going to jump down my throat as he does for parts of what I am about to say...which is part of the problem. Honestly, don't go and trash talk about a board that you post on, it's kinda an oxymoron.

RiseAgainst is a decent guy. I guess. Blackjack seems to boast for him and that is enough for me. But I haven't really seen him help anybody out. Then again I don't read through all of his posts, so I could miss a whole heck of a lot.

In the end things get thrown around like "he knows a lot" or "he is smart for his age," etc.

I have never once claimed to be an expert. I have never onced claimed that I am knowledgeable is anything. All I have ever said is that I have done some research, read of tons of opinions and based mine on them. I have freely given them.

But one thing that I feel passionate about is this...someone new to a DESIGNER STEROID should use a SERM. The reasons to use them far outweigh those to not. And when anyone tells someone that they don't have to because it suppositely worked for them (which I have yet to see scanned before and after bloodwork for). That advice can really mess people up.

Free discussion, yes. I am all for that. Hurting newer less knowledgeable guys, that's not cool with me.


Okay, with this, I am backing away. Like I did in that other thread. (i'm kinda sorry I unsubscribed when I did, sounds like it turned into a crazy thread)
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Hopefully I don't boast RA higher than I am meaning to ;)

He does give out a lot of helpful info though...BUT 99.9% of that is on another board and that is what I am referring to. He AND v00 are totally diff people on "that" board, very helpful and offer advice and help often. But then again, no one disagrees with them. I don't agree with RA and v00 all the time, but still think they are legit, and entitled to their opinion just as I am mine.

And as far as my stance goes on SERMs I think they are VERY important when running a pH/AAS, are they ABSOLUTELY A MUST??...no, but neither is PCT in general. Are they extremely important for FULL/REAL recovery? yes, imho.
 
Im plaesantly surprised to see how well this thread is going.Especially with so many STRONG personality types.

Let this be a lesson.Because If we men cant learn to agree to disagree how can we expect to acomplish this feat with our wives/girlfriends?:D
 
mmowry said:
Im plaesantly surprised to see how well this thread is going.Especially with so many STRONG personality types.

Let this be a lesson.Because If we men cant learn to agree to disagree how can we expect to acomplish this feat with our wives/girlfriends?:D
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Good word my man :thumbsup:
 
bLacKjAck. said:
Hopefully I don't boast RA higher than I am meaning to ;)

He does give out a lot of helpful info though...BUT 99.9% of that is on another board and that is what I am referring to. He AND v00 are totally diff people on "that" board, very helpful and offer advice and help often. But then again, no one disagrees with them. I don't agree with RA and v00 all the time, but still think they are legit, and entitled to their opinion just as I am mine.

And as far as my stance goes on SERMs I think they are VERY important when running a pH/anabolic steroids, are they ABSOLUTELY A MUST??...no, but neither is post cycle therapy in general. Are they extremely important for FULL/REAL recovery? yes, imho.
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Sometimes it's fun to compare conflicting viewpoints.
 
mmowry said:
Im plaesantly surprised to see how well this thread is going.Especially with so many STRONG personality types.

Let this be a lesson.Because If we men cant learn to agree to disagree how can we expect to acomplish this feat with our wives/girlfriends?:D
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Haha this couldn't have been put better... LOL :goodpost:
 
mmowry said:
Im plaesantly surprised to see how well this thread is going.Especially with so many STRONG personality types.

Let this be a lesson.Because If we men cant learn to agree to disagree how can we expect to acomplish this feat with our wives/girlfriends?:D
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a 5 of clubs between the spades is a quick way to get them to agree with you ;)
 
thesinner said:
RA takes sloppy seconds from goats after either Chad or myself are finished with 'em
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RA has discovered the secrest of backing a goat up to a cliff, they can go forever with the right determination. Much better investment than rabbits or cats.















Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
 
pistonpump said:
they are from a prohormone/OTC steroid board that believes in OTC AI's and test boosters for post cycle therapy. This is probably 90% of them, sad but true.

No flame required.
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I moderate there and use a SERM for every PCT.

I will agree I'm in the severe minority
 
RisingAgainst said:
Well I'm very pleased with how this thread turned out... great conversation. BJ probably nailed it with the ego thing... I will say this though... Even if my bloodwork is PERFECT (which of course it won't be) I will promise you guys this: Next cycle, I will use a SERM and compare total bloodwork and re-evaluate my thinkings... until then I will firmly stand by my beliefs, and remain open to yours... So for everybody else on this page: :goodpost: I appreciate the way things were handled in this thread.
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I look forward to having another SERM supported ont he other board then LOL :bb2:
 
How the hell did RA get that many Rep points?:wtf:

Flame UNC thread! lol

As I said before I have some Torem on hand for after my pulse so Wedge U have 2 guys now.
 
RisingAgainst said:
Hahah... well all I plan on saying now, is that my cycle is still a long ways away ;)
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Do you usually just ask your doctor to run a few blood tests for you? I don't mind providing bloodwork for my next cycle (end of august/beginning of Sept) with Toremifene
 
Wedgylx said:
Do you usually just ask your doctor to run a few blood tests for you? I don't mind providing bloodwork for my next cycle (end of august/beginning of Sept) with Toremifene
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Just walk up to him, look him in the eye, and say, "look doc, I use anabolics and feel it's necesarry to have bloodwork drawn to maintain my good health" and he will say "ok".... lol
 
SERMS RULE DUDE!!!!! :head: :head: :head: :head: :head: :head: :head:

Sorry about that carry on!:D
 
mmowry said:
SERMS RULE DUDE!!!!! :head: :head: :head: :head: :head: :head: :head:

Sorry about that carry on!:D
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That's like walking into a gay bar and saying "Butt sex rules dude!!! :head: :head: :head: lol!! jk bro, but you get my point right?

Just in case: Everybody already knows ;) LOL!
 
Here is a glimpse of what it will cost to get the proper bloodwork for before cycle, end of cycle and after completion of post cycle. These are the minimum that are done when one gets evaluated for TRT or hypogonadism. The cost is about right too. My insurance was billed $1400 when I was diagnosed with hypogonadism. There were one or two items not on that list that I was also tested for (DHEA, prolactin, etc). So for true testing purposes multiply the cost X3 :)

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B5150 said:
Here is a glimpse of what it will cost to get the proper bloodwork for before cycle, end of cycle and after completion of post cycle. These are the minimum that are done when one gets evaluated for TRT or hypogonadism. The cost is about right too. My insurance was billed $1400 when I was diagnosed with hypogonadism. There were one or two items not on that list that I was also tested for (DHEA, prolactin, etc). So for true testing purposes multiply the cost X3 :)

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Insurance was billed that, what do you pay as a %age??? It's not that bad if you have insurance OR if you have access to 'specialty' health care like myself.
 
Depend on your co-pay. When i was diagnosed my co-pay was $20 for labs. But to see my Dr for the script was another $30 co-pay. Now I have no lab co-pay but my Dr co-pay is now $20.

If you can get this done for the multiples needed and get scripts from a Dr for the bloodwork, more power to ya!
 
B5150 said:
Also consider that you need to do it multiple times for each post cycle therapy protocol. You are looking at 6X :)
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True, not the biggest deal in the world, (for now that is) I will have to base future decisions on future circumstances though, so it's hard to say how things will work out.
EDIT: fyi- it's vacation time, see everybody next Thursday.
 
Bare minimum you need LH, FSH, total testosterone. From my experience (while using tamox) the gonadotropins will come back first, but test will remain low. This is because the testes are desensitized to LH, and it takes some time to re-sensitize (I think :think:).

This was my first go with AM and labwork:

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And so started my love affair, and my destiny with becoming an anabolicaholic...:whiner:
 
IMO the reason for all the "you have got to use a SERM" "go do more research" "you need more PCT" replies from the vets of this forum are more to try to protect the newbies that come here. The last thing we need is some kid coming in here and running a cycle at the reccomendation of someone here and getting ***** tits and his mom blowing the whole thing up on foxnews. I dont think they have anything against you personally its just an automatic response. "protect the board"
 
Though I believe that you are entitled to your opinion, I believe you may make assumptions that are not entirely correct.

Consider that companies began to develop alternate means of post cycle therapy products to capitalize on a market that had no access to, or who were unwilling to purchase grey market products that were in reality illegal to purchase without prescription. Additionally these are the same companies that also marketed androgens that slip through loop holes in the FDA and other regulatory boards that legislate uncontrolled substances. So they not only provide a product that slips through loop holes but it also makes it readily available to less knowledgeable consumers who can purchase these items off the shelves of even less knowledgeable retailer. It is a matter of supply and demand. But in this case the demand is from those consumers who are very misinformed or naive about what they are actually doing to their bodies by using anabolic and AI (anti-estrogenic) compounds. It makes it the happy meal of the get huge quick newbie who is clueless what he is doing to himself. But it is legal so it must be OK.

This board assumes no liability whatsoever. Not to mention some of our sponsors carry these very same OTC products that you mention. So if it were indeed the case it would be counter productive to any business strategy of having board sponsors pay to advertise their goods and then in turn discourage users from buying said product.

The vets here have used SERMS for a very long time before these products came to light. They were staples and there was no demand for it from those seasoned or experienced veterans who had there sources and had their tried and true methods. It is the newbie that has produced a nitch that the supplement industry have taken the opportunity to exploit for profit.

Yes, you are right, it is not personal, and they have nothing against you. But if it ain't broke there is no need to fix it. JMHO
 
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