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less supressive dosage for ph anyone?

St0nes

New member
Has anybody tried using a ph dosage that doesn't overly suppress your natural test, just compliments it? And was it effective?

Not looking for a test booster
 
By definition, if the suppression is weak, it means your androgen receptors aren't being stimulated much or very strongly. Which means the pH won't do much for you anyway. With the secondary effects of androgens (i.e. increased muscle mass) comes suppression, invariably.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
By definition, if the suppression is weak, it means your androgen receptors aren't being stimulated much or very strongly. Which means the pH won't do much for you anyway. With the secondary effects of androgens (i.e. increased muscle mass) comes suppression, invariably.
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I see, so by maybe taking a split dose at certain times you can't allow your own test to recover and then add to it as the suppression begins immediately and half lives aren't that long?
 
There was a thread on here form a while back about someone trying to low dose Epi.
Invalid Link Removed
 
Some people pulse ph's to reduce suppression, however, I haven't looked much into it, because I feel it inhibits the actual nature of the ph. I'm in this to get big, I don't care how big my balls are.
 
I suppose I'm wanting my cake and eating it as my goal would be to increase hormone on top of test and save money, sides in the process. I'm now thinking if this was possible everyone would be doing it!
 
St0nes said:
I suppose I'm wanting my cake and eating it as my goal would be to increase hormone on top of test and save money, sides in the process. I'm now thinking if this was possible everyone would be doing it!
Click to expand...

The thread gives some interesting reasoning for using 10-20mg of epi in the morning only as a way to "mask" the presence of the epi but idk if this is legit. I haven't looked into much but after reading this again I want to see if I can find more info.
 
Someone's mentioned in the thread seeing a similar post on an experiment on sd and they found it didn't work but I'm interested in finding out how it'd affect me!?
 
St0nes said:
Someone's mentioned in the thread seeing a similar post on an experiment on sd and they found it didn't work but I'm interested in finding out how it'd affect me!?
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SD is also a much stronger compound lol...
 
mtinsideout said:
The thread gives some interesting reasoning for using 10-20mg of epi in the morning only as a way to "mask" the presence of the epi but idk if this is legit. I haven't looked into much but after reading this again I want to see if I can find more info.
Click to expand...

Wouldnt one be better off running a hightened dose of an otc AI like erase or Formestane rather than trying to pulse or low dose something like epi?
 
Yeah I suppose! 6 bromo would probably be ideal for that as the hightened dose takes the product into the prohormone category anyway!
 
McCrew530 said:
Wouldnt one be better off running a hightened dose of an otc AI like erase or Formestane rather than trying to pulse or low dose something like epi?
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It is a good question... It is something I'd have to look into more but maybe jbryand101b or someone else who knows more about it can give there $.02
 
mr.cooper69 said:
By definition, if the suppression is weak, it means your androgen receptors aren't being stimulated much or very strongly. Which means the pH won't do much for you anyway. With the secondary effects of androgens (i.e. increased muscle mass) comes suppression, invariably.
Click to expand...

In broscience terms, more gains, more sides, less sides, less gains.
 
McCrew530 said:
Wouldnt one be better off running a hightened dose of an otc AI like erase or Formestane rather than trying to pulse or low dose something like epi?
Click to expand...

In short, no, ill post a quote from pa why later.

ah shoot, I cant find it. but basically what he said was there seems to be no performance enhancement seen from reducing estrogen, and increasing testosterone, so it would seem estrogen is also needed in order to cause the gains seen from increasing testosterone.
 
jbryand101b said:
In short, no, ill post a quote from pa why later.

ah shoot, I cant find it. but basically what he said was there seems to be no performance enhancement seen from reducing estrogen, and increasing testosterone, so it would seem estrogen is also needed in order to cause the gains seen from increasing testosterone.
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I've seen that study, but the T elevation was also something like 100%, which even in the presence of estrogen, would have no effect on performance enhancement (average T from 500->1000). In fact, there is no data to support the need for estrogen for gaining muscle mass in healthy, "non-enhanced" males. Those with supraphysiological T levels seem to benefit from estrogen though as per recent studies. So the effects of estrogen on muscle mass are testosterone-dependent (physiological vs supraphysiological).

Excellent thread with references by neuron: Invalid Link Removed

The supraphysiological T + E data came out after the thread so it's obviously missing, but take my word for it (too lazy to pull up the research, maybe someone else will)
 
mr.cooper69 said:
I've seen that study, but the T elevation was also something like 100%, which even in the presence of estrogen, would have no effect on performance enhancement (average T from 500->1000). In fact, there is no data to support the need for estrogen for gaining muscle mass in healthy, "non-enhanced" males. Those with supraphysiological T levels seem to benefit from estrogen though as per recent studies. So the effects of estrogen on muscle mass are testosterone-dependent (physiological vs supraphysiological).

Excellent thread with references by neuron: Invalid Link Removed

The supraphysiological T + E data came out after the thread so it's obviously missing, but take my word for it (too lazy to pull up the research, maybe someone else will)
Click to expand...

Good info coop... There is a lot to go through in here but I'll give it a shot
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Those with supraphysiological T levels seem to benefit from estrogen though as per recent studies. So the effects of estrogen on muscle mass are testosterone-dependent (physiological vs supraphysiological).


The supraphysiological T + E data came out after the thread so it's obviously missing, but take my word for it (too lazy to pull up the research, maybe someone else will)
Click to expand...

That is most likely what pa was referring too. I'd have to find the comment and discussions for it to make better sense
 
So if I'm reading that correctly it will not aid in muscle growth but it will help promote fat loss making AI's more of a viable option for contest prep for those that want to be dry but not take a product like epistane. Am I making the correct assumption
 
Question about the low dose epi cycle.

Why is it so stressed that I must be taken in the morning? I lift around 8pm, wouldn't it be better to be taken an hour PWO?
 
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