Lean One's log Reloaded M1,4,ADD

Lean, you could just be quite unaffected by estrogenic sides. I doubt many other people could tolerate that high of a dose.
 
max silver said:
What do you have planned for post cycle? I've been using clen myself, and as with every other time I've used it it's done jack for maintaining strength gains, as I've seen the strength losses both when cutting clean and using for post cycle usage. That being said I am looking a little bit leaner two weeks post cycle than when I started my cycle, and still am up 7 or so pounds from the start of my cycle. I'm eating the same amount of calories as on cycle, and have seen no fat gains so far, so the stuff is working great in that regard.

If the m-dien is anywhere near as potent as Bruce Kneller and Sledge initially reported 4mg should yield some sick gains! I have to send mine back to Sledge as I have one of the flavored batches that's in ill-repute at the moment. I'm more leaning toward starting at 2.5-3 mg myself, but will make a more concrete decision once more user feedback pours in.

Based on your experience with m1,4 thusfar would you recommend it to others? I still have a 1fast monster combo sitting in my freezer, and think I might consider adding m1,4 to it for a crazy bulking cycle sometime later on down the road.
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I'm doing Clomid and Clen for PCT. I don't care about losing strength, I just want to keep my gains. I'm not worried about my M-Dien. I know I got a good batch. :D YES I would abselutely recomend it to others. It will be awesome in a stack like that. It's your call as far as dosing.
 
Skark said:
My only concern about the high levels of M1,4 ADD you have been taking, is that the small benefits (6 lbs right?) don't jive with the cost when compared to M1-T, still the king of M-prohormones.
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That's 7.5lbs. It's not supposed to work like M1T. I don't know if you read the full log, but the first week I was using lower doses. I only picked up a couple pounds. The seccond week I threw in T3 and Clen. I diddn't gain a pound all week. (I know,I learned my lesson :rolleyes: ) The last week is when I up to 110mg. Let me tell you the last week was awesome. I wonder what would have happened if I just dosed 75 to 100 mg from the start.
 
MarcusG said:
Lean, you could just be quite unaffected by estrogenic sides. I doubt many other people could tolerate that high of a dose.
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You could be right. I dunno. However, If my theory holds any weight, then I'm not suprised by how it turned out.
 
Lean One said:
Day 23 (Day 2 on M-Dien)
One last thing. I had some 4-Derm lying around so I am using that at a moderate dose
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If that is 4-AD, thats a definate no-no on MD :eek:

Progesterone side city :(
 
Skark said:
If that is 4-AD, thats a definate no-no on MD :eek:

Progesterone side city :(
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I'm not worried about it. If anything comes up I'll just stop the 4ad. Besides Sldge diddn't say it's a total no no. Just to be careful. There is potential with anything. Guys run test/tren test/anadrol cycles all the time. It's not a guarentee of gyno.
 
Lean One.....I think you and I have sort of the same view on these things. People would freak if they knew some of the dosages I've been taking in order to get results. I don't know if its from previous roid use or projected dosages have been way too low. But I have had to go way up on just about everything in order to get results.

By the way, you didn't mention about this, but when I finished the M1,4AD at a dose very similar to yours, I didn't feel shut down. I went ahead and ran clo as usual, but I don't honestly think I needed it. I've been shut down before from much more powerful stuff than this and I know what it feels like.

I think alot of people are gonna end up with high dosages if they are gonna see any results at all. But I would still advise to work your way up slowly. Patience is a virtue.
 
farmer said:
Lean One.....I think you and I have sort of the same view on these things. People would freak if they knew some of the dosages I've been taking in order to get results. I don't know if its from previous roid use or projected dosages have been way too low. But I have had to go way up on just about everything in order to get results.

By the way, you didn't mention about this, but when I finished the M1,4AD at a dose very similar to yours, I didn't feel shut down. I went ahead and ran clo as usual, but I don't honestly think I needed it. I've been shut down before from much more powerful stuff than this and I know what it feels like.

I think alot of people are gonna end up with high dosages if they are gonna see any results at all. But I would still advise to work your way up slowly. Patience is a virtue.
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Thanks. It's nice to know sombody else is coming to the same conclusions as I. ;) About being shut down, All I can say is that It has not been as bad as with fina. I did notice some shrikage though after two weeks. Not nearly as bad as with fina or 1test though. Still, propper PCT is a must.

BTW, I just found out that one of the early testers of M-dien ran it with TEST. Go figure.
 
Day 23 (Day 2 on M-Dien)

Down a pound this morning.160.5. I expected that because I am increasing the cardio frequency. My calories are about the same, but I have selectively cut out a few carbs here and there. Also I'm kind of in between androgens. The M14ADD is clearing out and the M-Dien is building up. I suspect that If I was holding a small amount of water that I would be losing it now,so I'm not worried about being down a bit.

The goal from here on out is to lean out and harden up. I'm not expecting any big weight increases, but I would like to pick up a few more pounds in the process. If I can end the cycle at a leaner and harder 165 I will be happy. Still, If I can recomp and maintain my weight, I wouldn't be disapointed.

One last thing. I had some 4-Derm lying around so I am using that at a moderate dose
 
Day 24 ( Day 3 on M-Dien)

A few intresting things to report:

1. Weight is back up to 161.5 even though I have been doing cardio twice a day since monday. I kept calories the same to see how my body responds these first few days.

2. Only minor soreness after trashing my biceps yesterday with new exercises, a superset and a drop set at the end. I was expecting the soreness to interfere with todays workout but it is barely noticable.

3. I've had a mild tension like headache in my temporal regions the last day or so.

4. I think I'm noticing more agression. Nothing too dramatic, But I have been a little short fused yesterday and today.
 
Day 25 (Day 4 of M-Dien)

162lbs today. And leaning out. :cool:

I'm noticing my forarms are more vascular. Could be from leaning out more, could be the M-Dien. I think both.

Took a couple tylenol last night. Stopped the headache cold. It was back this morning but seems to have subsided since breakfast. Though I havn't taken my first dose yet. (I'm about to)

Training chest/tris this morning. I'll post back if I notice anything signifigant.
 
Lean One said:
Day 25 (Day 4 of M-Dien)

162lbs today. And leaning out. :cool:

I'm noticing my forarms are more vascular. Could be from leaning out more, could be the M-Dien. I think both.

Took a couple tylenol last night. Stopped the headache cold. It was back this morning but seems to have subsided since breakfast. Though I havn't taken my first dose yet. (I'm about to)

Training chest/tris this morning. I'll post back if I notice anything signifigant.
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I could be wrong but I thought taking tylenol was bad for working out since it stops protein synthesis or something?? correct me if i'm wrong guys..
 
propho said:
I could be wrong but I thought taking tylenol was bad for working out since it stops protein synthesis or something?? correct me if i'm wrong guys..
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From what I understand: I believe Tylenol and other NSAIDs inhibit prostaglandin production, which reduces inflamation. Because lifting weights tears muscle tissue, prostaglandin release is a piece in the break down - build up cycle. Tylenol interferes with this.

I would also be worried about habitual Tylenol use while taking back to back cycles of methylated substances, particularly the m-dien. Just as the combination of alcohol and acetaminophen is bad news bears for the liver, I would postulate that acetaminophen and methylated substances poses a similar risk.
 
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propho said:
I could be wrong but I thought taking tylenol was bad for working out since it stops protein synthesis or something?? correct me if i'm wrong guys..
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This has only been proven in rats. I'm not worried about it.

Gostface, If you know of a less toxic alternative to tylenol I would love to hear it. I'm not wild about popping tylenol on a daily basis. I'm gonna check my BP tomorrow. Mabey hawthorn berry would help? I dunno.
 
Lean One said:
This has only been proven in rats. I'm not worried about it.

Gostface, If you know of a less toxic alternative to tylenol I would love to hear it. I'm not wild about popping tylenol on a daily basis. I'm gonna check my BP tomorrow. Mabey hawthorn berry would help? I dunno.
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I believe that Aspirin and Ibuprofin (Motrin) do not pose the same risks to liver health, or at least not on the level that Tylenol does. As for BP, I've seen hawthorn berry, celery seed extract, and coq10 recommended; unfortunately, I do not know just how successful these substances really are for controlling androgen-related blood pressure increases. Everyone just seems to take them "thinking" that they will do some good.
 
GhostfaceKillah said:
I believe that Aspirin and Ibuprofin (Motrin) do not pose the same risks to liver health, or at least not on the level that Tylenol does. As for BP, I've seen hawthorn berry, celery seed extract, and coq10 recommended; unfortunately, I do not know just how successful these substances really are for controlling androgen-related blood pressure increases. Everyone just seems to take them "thinking" that they will do some good.
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Well **** man, I actually prefer Ibuprophin. I don't know why I had the idea that tylenol would be better. I'll switch over. I'm hoping this side subsides as my body adjusts to the compound. I don't think it's my BP. I do plenty of cardio to keep it in check. Thanks. ;)
 
Lean One said:
Well **** man, I actually prefer Ibuprophin. I don't know why I had the idea that tylenol would be better. I'll switch over. I'm hoping this side subsides as my body adjusts to the compound. I don't think it's my BP. I do plenty of cardio to keep it in check. Thanks. ;)
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No problem. Here's a few more words on the subject (courtesy of pogue):

The only pain killers that don't have negative effects on protein synthesis are opiates. All NSAIDs that inhibit COX or COX-2 will have a negative effect on protein synthesis.

IHowever, as natural alternatives you may look into white willow bark, which has some active salicines, similar to asprin, as well as GLA, which inhibits the production of anachronic acid, which is the same way COX inhibitors function.
 
Perhaps it'd be best to try avoiding dosing pain killers around workout time, when you want to take advantage of resulting increase in protein synthesis that the workout brings.

Do you know of any specific opiate based pain killers that might actually be obtainable through a prescription? I would imagine doctors would be pretty reluctant to prescribe these except in extreme cases due to the addiction potential or opiates in general.
 
Well, My BP is 149/65. Systolic is higher than normal. Mabey that's playing a role in the headaches. Gonna get some hawthorn berry this weekend.
 
Are you taking anything besides the m-dien like the 4aderm?

Anyway for the bp, maybe you could try stepping down the dosage alittle, since the beta you got is pure.
 
MarcusG said:
Are you taking anything besides the m-dien like the 4aderm? Yes

Anyway for the bp, maybe you could try stepping down the dosage alittle, since the beta you got is pure.
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I'm not messing with the dosage yet.If anything I'll bump to 5mg. :D The headache is very managable and my BP is only a little above normal. I'm betting that if I get the hawthorn berry that BP will normalise and the headaches will go bye bye. :)
 
Day 27 (Day 6 on M-Dien)

163 today. :cool: Things are looking good. My physique is taking on a harder appearance. Feeling strong and the agression is intense in the gym. :mad: :D I just picked up some hawthorn berry and celery seed extract. Seems to be helping. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
 
max silver said:
Perhaps it'd be best to try avoiding dosing pain killers around workout time, when you want to take advantage of resulting increase in protein synthesis that the workout brings.

Do you know of any specific opiate based pain killers that might actually be obtainable through a prescription? I would imagine doctors would be pretty reluctant to prescribe these except in extreme cases due to the addiction potential or opiates in general.
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The only thing I can think of is Codeine based cough syrup. Any other kind of pain killer is almost always coupled with Tylenol, until you get to the stuff they're REALLY strict with like oxycontin and so on.
 
No worries guys. :) Ever since I took my first dose of hawthornberry/celery extract, I have not needed anything since. I popped 2 tylenol around 6:00 this morning that's it. The last three days I always needed something again in the afternoon. Not anymore;I feel great. :cool:
 
Day 30 ( Day 9 of M-Dien)

Still at 163lbs, but undeniably leaner. Since starting the HB/CS I have had zero headaches and am virtually side effect free. Only a tiny bit of acne. So in light of that, I have bumped up to 5mg. I am determined to end the cycle at 165 or better and very lean. Everything is on track. :cool:
 
so what kind of dosing are you using with the m-dien? i am starting m1,4add and im liking the look of your cycle. so you went 20 days on the m1,4 and then the m-dien.

how long are you running the m-dien?
 
good_guye28 said:
so what kind of dosing are you using with the m-dien? i am starting m1,4add and im liking the look of your cycle. so you went 20 days on the m1,4 and then the m-dien.

how long are you running the m-dien?
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M-Dien for 4 weeks. I started at 4mg/day the first week. Now I'm doing 5.
 
Day 31 (day 10 of M-Dien)

164lbs this morning. That's a solid 10 lbs total from the start of the cycle. I'm leaner too.I walk around feeling pumped most of the time. simple daily activities accentuates it. When I workout, "fagetabatit". :eek:
 
good_guye28 said:
have you noticed your bf going down lower while on the m-dien? or should i say have you noticed anything in the mirror?
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Definitely. I have been doing lots of cardio, but I have kept calories up. I've noticed more vascularity, better separation and striations in my shoulders. and the same in my upper chest as well.Also. the vertical tendon on my abs seems to be more visible. Things have beel going so well in that department that I decided to lay off the twice a day cardio in order to encourage getter gains. I'm also amazed at the amount of food I've been eating. I'm like 500 calories above maintenance.
 
Good to hear things are going so well for you, you're goal of 165 should be obliterated by the time you finish up your cycle. Given that you are already so close to the goal of 165 and have plenty of time left on cycle, have you altered your goals at all?

Losing bodyfat at 500 calories over maintenance is insane to say the least, and has me rather excited at the concept of using this compound when cutting. I just gotta hope that the m-dien I had to ship back to Sledge gets to him alright, and that I'm able to get it back through customs again.
 
max silver said:
Good to hear things are going so well for you, you're goal of 165 should be obliterated by the time you finish up your cycle. Given that you are already so close to the goal of 165 and have plenty of time left on cycle, have you altered your goals at all?

Losing bodyfat at 500 calories over maintenance is insane to say the least, and has me rather excited at the concept of using this compound when cutting. I just gotta hope that the m-dien I had to ship back to Sledge gets to him alright, and that I'm able to get it back through customs again.
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Thanks. If I alter anything in terms of my goal,it would just be topick up a couple lbs more muscle. When I hit 165, I'll try to maintain that weight and lose a pound or two more of fat. Keep in mind that I have been using T-3 with this at 50mcg/day and drinking greapfriut jiuce 1/2hr before each dose.

Actually, I was wondering if the GF jiuce can have the same effect in extending the halflife of thyroid drugs as it does androgens. I ask because yesterday, I had a touch of diahreah(sp?). As a result, I'm down a pound today. :( I think I should cut the T-3 back to 25mcg and start to taper down.If any vets are paying attention to this, I would like to hear some thoughts on that.
 
Day 34 (13 on M-Dien)

Well, the squirts must have been a prelude of things to come. The both ends disease payed me a visit last night. :( I wasn't suprised, because my poor 10 month old son had it the night before. Now my wife and daughter are awaiting its arival like prisioners on death row. Anyway, 10hrs of pucking and explosive liquid evacuations later, and I'm down 4 lbs. :mad:

Today, I will be resting, drinking lots of fluids, and slowly getting my stomach back. I'm sure the weight will come back in due time. At least I'm still at 160 :rolleyes:
 
Damn, tough break on the stomach flu man, it always seems like stuff like this pops up at the most inoportune moment. A few months ago I suffered from a minor bout of food poisoning on the second day of pct, and lost about 5 pounds in two days time, taking about 2 days before I could stomach whole food again. Good luck to reaching a speedy recovery.
 
max silver said:
Damn, tough break on the stomach flu man, it always seems like stuff like this pops up at the most inoportune moment. A few months ago I suffered from a minor bout of food poisoning on the second day of pct, and lost about 5 pounds in two days time, taking about 2 days before I could stomach whole food again. Good luck to reaching a speedy recovery.
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Thanks man. Yesterday went well, and I'm planning to get back into cardio and a moderate weight workout today. I havn't weighed in yet today. I'll post back later.
 
Day 40 (19 on M-Dien)

I know it has been a while since I updated. I've had some posting issues recently but they are now resolved so I will recap the week.

It has taken nearly a full week to recover fully from the puke fest. Between my own recovery and losing many nights sleep sitting up with vomiting children, it has been a long week. :rolleyes: I finally feel like I'm back to 100%.

My weight has only gotten back up to 162,However 24 hrs of no food has resulted in some fat loss I'm sure. It shows in the mirror around my waist. Anyway, Today was the first workout in a week that I felt was 100%. I trained shoulders alone.(I am prioritising them) recently I started taking 2mg of my daily dose pre workout, and I think that it is really aiding in strength gains. I added 10 more lbs on my upright rows for a total of 30lbs since starting the cycle. :cool: The pumps are still insane, and the leaner I get, the bigger I look.

I only have about 2 weeks left of 4 derm, so when that is gone the cycle will end. I don't think I will be able to pick up much more weight in this time so my goal for the next 2 weeks will be to lean out a little more and stay in the 162~164 range.Back and bis tomorrow. I'm looking forward to it.
 
You recommended up to 80mg of the M1,4add (starting at 30-40mg), is this correct?
And your currently using 5mg of the MD daily?
 
Deoudes59 said:
You recommended up to 80mg of the M1,4add (starting at 30-40mg), is this correct?
And your currently using 5mg of the MD daily?
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Uhh, I topped out at 110mg/day on the M14ADD and I loved it.

Currently I am running 6mg/day of M-Dien with No sides. I love that too.

Two kick ass compounds. I am putting all my funds into stocking up on both. I see no need to put my money into anything else.
 
Day 43 (22 on M-Dien)

165.5 today. :cool:

This is partly due to less than clean eating over the easter holliday, but i'm not worried. I'm expecting to drop a pound over the next day or two. Either way, it's nice to finally get beyond where I was before I got sick.

This week it's back to clean eating and lots of cardio. I'm right where I want to be, so if I can maintain this and lean out some more, I will be a happy camper.Only about a week or two left.
 
Day 47 (26 on M-Dien)

Twice a day cardio has gotten me down to 163 witch is fine by me since it's all fat.It shows in the mirror to. I havn't lowered my calories at all. I'm thinking about ending the cycle after this weekend. It has been a good one. One of my best ever, but I'm looking forward to PCT and a nice break before a summer cycle.
 
Lean One said:
Day 47 (26 on M-Dien)

Twice a day cardio has gotten me down to 163 witch is fine by me since it's all fat.It shows in the mirror to. I havn't lowered my calories at all. I'm thinking about ending the cycle after this weekend. It has been a good one. One of my best ever, but I'm looking forward to PCT and a nice break before a summer cycle.
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Good to hear that unlike the Matrix series, your Cycle Reloaded was better than the original. :D
 
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