Laxogenin vs epicathin vs phosatidic acid

Laxo, PA, EPI in that order....laxo leans me out and improves my workout, PA bloated me but added some fullness....epi imo is pretty useless
 
Laxogenin promised a lot, but is better for joints than muscle gain.
Phosphatidic acid is good for muscle fullness and pumps.
Epicatechin is a gamble, as it works for some, but not for others.

You didn't list this as an option, but may I suggest Arachidonic acid. Which seems to be universal for muscle and strength gains
 
I agree with the above, I think Laxo helps with recovery/joints/inflammation vs. muscle building per-se. That being said recovery is important.
 
Slims said:
Laxogenin promised a lot, but is better for joints than muscle gain.
Phosphatidic acid is good for muscle fullness and pumps.
Epicatechin is a gamble, as it works for some, but not for others.

You didn't list this as an option, but may I suggest Arachidonic acid. Which seems to be universal for muscle and strength gains
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AA really would be the best in my opinion. Worked well for me
 
I would say that at the right dose they all work pretty well, but then it can get very pricey.

I would also throw ecdysterone into the mix. I am on some sort of it (rhaponticum carthamoides, Turk, etc.) basically all year long, and I definitely feel it when I am not taking it (especially recovery)
 
kisaj said:
Epi works very well for me, primarily for endurance reasons -> volume.
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Me too. Even the first wave without absorption enhancement hit me hard. It's basically been a staple for me for years, and has made a huge difference in my training capacity. It's weird though because there are non responders out there. But if it you respond well to it, trust me you will never be without it.
 
ARA aka SNS X gels is going to give you the most strength and size gains! If you’re set on Epicatechin CEL EpiPlex is also a great option and one the of the best dosed epicat products on the market. I always like running EpiPlex and CEL M test together for a nice little natty bulking cycle.
 
ttortman78 said:
Me too. Even the first wave without absorption enhancement hit me hard. It's basically been a staple for me for years, and has made a huge difference in my training capacity. It's weird though because there are non responders out there. But if it you respond well to it, trust me you will never be without it.
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What ep brand?
 
The Express 42 said:
ARA aka SNS X gels is going to give you the most strength and size gains! If you’re set on Epicatechin CEL EpiPlex is also a great option and one the of the best dosed epicat products on the market. I always like running EpiPlex and CEL M test together for a nice little natty bulking cycle.
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Agreed with this! Xgels is one of my fav natty products. Would definitely recommend taking a look at it and stacking with an epi product. You could even stack with Anafuse which has epi and laxo in it.
 
Out if the group I would agree with ARA for muscle gains.
 
ARA gets the most consistent feedback in my opinion.

Out of the original 3 choices the OP presented, Epicatechin works by far the best out of the 3 for me. Epicatechin seems to work better for some than it does others but also a lot of the epicatechin products on the market are prop blends so you don't know how much you're really getting. I respond very well to Epi-Plex taken twice daily and have done up to 3 per day during intense training periods.

Someone above mentioned that Epi helped them with endurance and I've found that to be the case with me as well. I've always tended to build strength faster than endurance so it was very surprising for me how much Epi-Plex helped with my endurance.
 
sns8778 said:
ARA gets the most consistent feedback in my opinion.

Out of the original 3 choices the OP presented, Epicatechin works by far the best out of the 3 for me. Epicatechin seems to work better for some than it does others but also a lot of the epicatechin products on the market are prop blends so you don't know how much you're really getting. I respond very well to Epi-Plex taken twice daily and have done up to 3 per day during intense training periods.

Someone above mentioned that Epi helped them with endurance and I've found that to be the case with me as well. I've always tended to build strength faster than endurance so it was very surprising for me how much Epi-Plex helped with my endurance.
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There is an epi brand that has 350mg @60 caps for less than epi-plex, was looking at all the epi prices earlier.
 
Resolve10 said:
Agreed.

Haven’t used Laxo, but Epi>PA for me so far.

I notice increased endurance and recovery, leading to improved workouts and accelerated body comp changes.

Using Olympus Labs Ep1logue currently and even noted improved resting heart rate over first month of use.
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That's the VASO6
 
The Express 42 said:
ARA aka SNS X gels is going to give you the most strength and size gains! If you’re set on Epicatechin CEL EpiPlex is also a great option and one the of the best dosed epicat products on the market. I always like running EpiPlex and CEL M test together for a nice little natty bulking cycle.
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This ! The pumps are amazing on x gels. The strength and size are solid too ! I have not stacked with Epi but sounds like it would be a pretty awesome stack.
 
clayboy_123 said:
Which is the strongest for muscle gain and strength ?
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laxo is so mixed and personally I wont bother with it.

Epi also can be mixed, but seems to have more universally positive feedback in terms of endurance and mild strength (pI would reccommend a proven brand like CEL Epi-Plex and their open label to adjust dose as needed to personal preference)

PA is a tough one becuase the amount needed is harder to measure unless you go with standardized mediator or similar (which will cost you).

Personally, I would go with Arachidonic Acid (SNS Xgels) over any of the 3 as it in my experience outclasses all of them for strength by a wide margin and is scientifically proven to add muscle
 
Interesting Thread
 
jameschoi said:
There is an epi brand that has 350mg @60 caps for less than epi-plex, was looking at all the epi prices earlier.
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I can’t speak for any other brand; only what works for me. I will say that there’s Epicatechin products with %’s of basically nothing up to 90+%. And in a lot of cases the feedback on some speaks for itself. Some brands even list it in a way that they state a presence of epicatechin but don’t state a dosage or a % and in some cases have been trying to pass off green tea as Epi. Easy math on this is quality epicatechin is 500+ per kg. So if a product sells for so low it’s too good to be true, it probably is.
 
One of the best ways to save money is not always buying the cheapest product!!
 
Resolve10 said:
I’ve used Epi and Vaso-6 in isolation before Ep1logue and get benefits from both that just seem amplified together.
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Epi and vaso-6 sounds like an awesome stack. Haven't tried that yet but i bet you get some good pump and muscle fullness on that stack.
 
Rocket3015 said:
One of the best ways to save money is not always buying the cheapest product!!
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Absolutely agree. I always try to emphasize the term cost effective - getting the absolute best product for the price. That's very different than buying the cheapest product. I look at it like this - if I 'save' 5.00 by buying the cheapest product, did I really save 5.00 or just waste everything I spent to begin with?

A good example is I saw in another thread a few minutes ago someone mention a product for 10.00 and knowing the raw material costs for the branded ingredients in it, the cost of just the raw materials would cost more than the product was selling for. Of course sometimes that happens if a company is going out of business or blowing out a product, but this was supposedly a regular price on the particular product. That type of thing is one of the reasons why the industry gets a bad reputation and it gives certain types of products and ingredients a bad name because people buy them, don't get results, and then blame the ingredients when they likely weren't even trying them.
 
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