Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

Latest goofy idea from J2x (sublingual SD)...

ImJ2x

ImJ2x

Well-known member
OK, so what if I opened a cap of Superdrol and poured it under my tongue? I'd end up swallowing most of it, but at least some of it would be absorbed sublingually, thereby avoiding the "first pass" liver breakdown thingy. Wouldn't this be somewhat gentler on my liver than normal oral consumption? Does sublingual even work with methylated compounds? Am I retarded (again)?
 
I know you can take non-methylated orals sublingually. I just wondered if it would work with Superdrol.
 
ImJ2x said:
To increase oral availability, I know.
But it also greatly increases liver toxicity.
Click to expand...

The sublingual is pointless for a 17a-oral. Most of an SD cap is filler and very little, if any, would dissolve under your tongue.
 
Yeah, I sometimes think so far "out of the box" that I end up on Pluto. (Is that even a planet anymore?) "Earth to J2x, Earth to J2x..."
 
Yeah, I'm guessing it's all a silly idea. (But I may just try one cap under my tongue pre-workout, 4AD-style. It can't hurt, right?)
 
Don't worry bro your not the only one. I've done it before too, a handfull of times as i was under the same impression as you. Fast Actions Hdrol actually taste kind of like candy so i used to chew it a little and let it dissolve under my tongue pre workout. Can't say it really made a difference but hey whatever gives ya that little extra something.
 
MentalTwitch said:
let me know how the superdrol taste?! haha i have MDrol and doubt i would even try this but just curious.
Click to expand...
I tried it yesterday. The taste wasn't bad at all -- almost sweet. And it seemed like I got almost all of it to absorb under my tongue. Just a tiny bit of leftover rubbery residue (filler?) that I swallowed. So maybe this will spare my liver at least a little abuse -- who knows?
As for the pre-workout boost, I didn't get any huge jolt or anything, but I did have a great, intense workout. I managed to get my 90min workout done in just under an hour. But I've done that before, without the sublingual pre-workout superdrol. So I'm not sure if I can credit it or not.
 
bump.
I've tried the sublingual idea with SD and m5aa and I felt a more rapid "mental-effect" with this metod...
My Q is: the 17 akil AAS must be deliver in the gut or shall them like powder is the same?
 
T-Bone said:
You have to have some sort of carrier added to the product. It won't just be delivered sub-lingual by majic.
Click to expand...
sorry, I'm not a chemistry, but you can take, example, cocaine sublingual or snuff it, same effect.
Why I must have a carrier for a sulingual deliver? I know if I deliver transdermal...but..
With SD sublingual a feel a strange effect on my mind, like when snuff coca, a "mind-breeze"...
 
I've been doing the sublingual superdrol for 2 weeks now, and it definitely gets into your system this way. But I'm still not sure if it's actually saving my liver from abuse. Is it really getting absorbed under my tongue (it seems like it is), or do I actually just end up swallowing most of it?
 
ImJ2x said:
I've been doing the sublingual superdrol for 2 weeks now, and it definitely gets into your system this way. But I'm still not sure if it's actually saving my liver from abuse. Is it really getting absorbed under my tongue (it seems like it is), or do I actually just end up swallowing most of it?
Click to expand...
I dunno, but I feel a "different-feeling" in this way and I'm not a "easy-placebo-boy" ever with other recreational drugs...
or it's only a more drug addicted feeling, that I love, with this delivery method :D
 
ImJ2x said:
I've been doing the sublingual superdrol for 2 weeks now, and it definitely gets into your system this way. But I'm still not sure if it's actually saving my liver from abuse. Is it really getting absorbed under my tongue (it seems like it is), or do I actually just end up swallowing most of it?
Click to expand...

some of the superdrol is probably going sublingual, but why does it matter? Aside from the fact that most is just rolling down the back of your throat, whether you notice or not, what is the point? Your liver still takes a beating either way. This is like injecting SD, it will still pass through your liver, since the liver still filters your blood.
 
aspire210 said:
some of the superdrol is probably going sublingual, but why does it matter? Aside from the fact that most is just rolling down the back of your throat, whether you notice or not, what is the point? Your liver still takes a beating either way. This is like injecting superdrol, it will still pass through your liver, since the liver still filters your blood.
Click to expand...
I'm no expert at all, but I thought it was that "first pass" through the liver that did all the damage with the methylated compounds.
 
It's still going to be liver toxic whether taking in subling. or oral... just because it misses the first pass doesn't mean it's not liver toxic

when a 17aa is taken orally it is most toxic during the first pass, and then much less toxic during the second pass

by taking it subling your just getting hit with the same level of toxicity on the second pass as you would during the first if you took it orally

it's the same idea when you inject winstrol instead of taking it orally

it may cut down on toxicity ever so slightly, but your still at risk
 
ImJ2x said:
I'm no expert at all, but I thought it was that "first pass" through the liver that did all the damage with the methylated compounds.
Click to expand...

all you are doing is delaying the first pass, not bypassing it. IF any is going sublingual, all you might do is increase potency by a percent or two, but realistically, it just mixing with saliva and going down your throat. It will still make a first pass through the liver, and then a second pass causing the same amount of damage.
 
everything passes through liver, that's its job

so you are not being gentle to your liver at all.

its like someone saying hey if i inject winstrol it will be easier on the liver right? oral or inject or sublingual they will go through your liver once its in your bloodstream.
 
Yeah -- I think you guys are probably right (that's kinda what I suspected). But it does bring up an interesting point: if Superdrol was manufactured without the 17aa methylation, and put in tiny caps without any filler, could you just open up those caps and take the superdrol sublingually? Without the filler, it would be easy to absorb it all sublingually. Therefore you wouldn't need the 17aa (to increase oral availability). And since it's the 17aa that is so hepatoxic, wouldn't this method be just as effective as the current SD, but without most of the liver toxicity?
[Just thinking out loud here...]
 
ImJ2x said:
Yeah -- I think you guys are probably right (that's kinda what I suspected). But it does bring up an interesting point: if Superdrol was manufactured without the 17aa methylation, and put in tiny caps without any filler, could you just open up those caps and take the superdrol sublingually? Without the filler, it would be easy to absorb it all sublingually. Therefore you wouldn't need the 17aa (to increase oral availability). And since it's the 17aa that is so hepatoxic, wouldn't this method be just as effective as the current superdrol, but without most of the liver toxicity?
[Just thinking out loud here...]
Click to expand...

no. Imagine you took the 17aa out of dianabol, you would get boldenone, aka equipoise. Two very different effects with only a slight modification. 17aa really changes the dynamics and effects of steroids.
 
aspire210 said:
no. Imagine you took the 17aa out of dianabol, you would get boldenone, aka equipoise. Two very different effects with only a slight modification. 17aa really changes the dynamics and effects of steroids.
Click to expand...
Oh. I thought the 17aa was only there to increase bio-availability. I figured it would be the same compound without the 17aa, it just wouldn't be bio-available. That's why I love this place -- there's plenty of knowledgeable people here, and I learn something new every day. Thanks Aspire.:cool:
 
Actually, without the 17a methylation, I think Superdrol is Masteron. If they could put some of that in little caps without any filler, sublingual absorption would be easy. I'm wondering, in general, why sublingual isn't a more popular delivery method -- it avoids the bio-availability probs of orals, and the messiness of pinning. Anyone have a contradictory opinion?
 
I know back in the old days of 4-AD and 1 AD Pinnacle made products that you stick under the tongue and do exactly what you guys are talking about.Not saying Pinnacle had good products but it was one of there delivery methods.
 
ImJ2x said:
Actually, without the 17a methylation, I think Superdrol is Masteron. If they could put some of that in little caps without any filler, sublingual absorption would be easy. I'm wondering, in general, why sublingual isn't a more popular delivery method -- it avoids the bio-availability probs of orals, and the messiness of pinning. Anyone have a contradictory opinion?
Click to expand...

Masteron is a scheduled substance. Sub-lingual isn't that efficient either, you would have a lot of wasted product. Really, cyclo-dextrin would be a better method, but generally hurts. Pinning really isn't that big of a deal once you get past the mental block of it.
 
aspire210 said:
Masteron is a scheduled substance. Sub-lingual isn't that efficient either, you would have a lot of wasted product. Really, cyclo-dextrin would be a better method, but generally hurts. Pinning really isn't that big of a deal once you get past the mental block of it.
Click to expand...
I don't have any mental block. I'm not afraid of needles or blood. (I frequently check my cholesterol with those finger-prick home kits.) It's just that pinning is a fairly involved, messy, difficult to travel with, process. Pills are so much more convenient. I really would love to see some new products developed specifically for sublingual administration. I think it has distinct advantages over both oral and injectable methods. Are you listening, company reps?
 
I used to take this sublingual ZMA, I think it was called cyclo-ZMAss. You were supposed to crunch up the tabs in your mouth a little, then let them dissolve without swallowing. They didn't seem to work as well as plain old ZMA. (which seems odd, considering you DO just swallow ZMA)

I always thought that there would be more sublingual supps out on the market, too. But then, considering the loss from inadvertant swallowing(sp?), and then the negative feedback from people who didn't get results because of it, I'm sure companies would have a tough time with marketing.

Still, I'm sure there are quite a few things out there that would work much better in sublingual delivery, like b-12 does.(I believe?)

Someone on another thread mentioned nasal delivery for some supp as a joke, as in empty the powder into one of those nasal sprays, and Voila! straight into the blood stream. Maybe it was for a nootropic.
 
bound said:
Someone on another thread mentioned nasal delivery for some supp as a joke, as in empty the powder into one of those nasal sprays, and Voila! straight into the blood stream. Maybe it was for a nootropic.
Click to expand...

Thats basically a cyclodextrin. Except it has to do with permeability into the mucus membranous since steroids can't cross it normally.
 
OK Aspire -- is sublingual just a farce? Is it actually impossible to absorb this stuff through the tissues in your mouth? I'm calling you on this, because it seems to me that it would be easier to absorb through your oral tissues than your epidermis (aka transdermal, all the rage these days). And from personal experience, I really think I can get almost an entire cap of SD to absorb sublingually, fillers and all. You just have to experiment with the right amount of saliva in your mouth (not too much, not too little), and then refuse to swallow until you're not tasting it anymore, and you feel no more grit. If you get a chance, try it with one of your supps (small cap), and let me know what you think.
 
ImJ2x said:
OK Aspire -- is sublingual just a farce? Is it actually impossible to absorb this stuff through the tissues in your mouth? I'm calling you on this, because it seems to me that it would be easier to absorb through your oral tissues than your epidermis (aka transdermal, all the rage these days). And from personal experience, I really think I can get almost an entire cap of superdrol to absorb sublingually, fillers and all. You just have to experiment with the right amount of saliva in your mouth (not too much, not too little), and then refuse to swallow until you're not tasting it anymore, and you feel no more grit. If you get a chance, try it with one of your supps (small cap), and let me know what you think.
Click to expand...


sublingual is possible, but please remeber that your saliva rolls down the back of your throat wether you want it to or not. There is a reason most medical literature doesn't use sublingual as a method of administration. However, there are transdermal and oral testosterone treatments availible. Realistically, you are swallowing the vast majority of the superdrol cap, even if its unknowingly.
 
aspire210 said:
sublingual is possible, but please remeber that your saliva rolls down the back of your throat wether you want it to or not. There is a reason most medical literature doesn't use sublingual as a method of administration. However, there are transdermal and oral testosterone treatments availible. Realistically, you are swallowing the vast majority of the superdrol cap, even if its unknowingly.
Click to expand...
OK, then just humor me and try it. Take one of your capped supps (preferably small cap/fine powder), swallow most of your saliva first, then open the cap and pour it under your tongue. As your mouth starts to generate saliva, start moving your tongue around a bit, and push down on the powder, as if you're trying to force it into the tissue -- under the tongue, into the gums, roof of your mouth, wherever it ends up (but try to keep most of it under your tongue). And refuse to swallow for as long as you can. Gradually, the grit of the powder will disappear and the taste will fade. I believe this is a pretty good indication that it's absorbing into your oral tissues. Let me know what you think.
And sublingual actually is a valid delivery method -- I just feel that it's under-utilized. Interesting discussion, nonetheless.
 
ImJ2x said:
OK, then just humor me and try it. Take one of your capped supps (preferably small cap/fine powder), swallow most of your saliva first, then open the cap and pour it under your tongue. As your mouth starts to generate saliva, start moving your tongue around a bit, and push down on the powder, as if you're trying to force it into the tissue -- under the tongue, into the gums, roof of your mouth, wherever it ends up (but try to keep most of it under your tongue). And refuse to swallow for as long as you can. Gradually, the grit of the powder will disappear and the taste will fade. I believe this is a pretty good indication that it's absorbing into your oral tissues. Let me know what you think.
And sublingual actually is a valid delivery method -- I just feel that it's under-utilized. Interesting discussion, nonetheless.
Click to expand...

Ok, lets say its 100% absorbed. With a methyl steroid most oral absorption is 95%+ anyway. So lets go with non methylated hormones. Since molecular weight could be a problem with absorption and the esters could affect permeability, so we should use base hormones. But base hormones have the problem of a short half life, so this would require multiple times a day dosing. Just being realistic, its not optimal.
 
aspire210 said:
Ok, lets say its 100% absorbed. With a methyl steroid most oral absorption is 95%+ anyway. So lets go with non methylated hormones. Since molecular weight could be a problem with absorption and the esters could affect permeability, so we should use base hormones. But base hormones have the problem of a short half life, so this would require multiple times a day dosing. Just being realistic, its not optimal.
Click to expand...
Isn't short half life optimal for pulse cycles? That's why you dose once immediately pre-workout, and then again immediately post-workout.
 
ImJ2x said:
Isn't short half life optimal for pulse cycles? That's why you dose once immediately pre-workout, and then again immediately post-workout.
Click to expand...

When I say short for base compounds, I mean like minutes. The half life of test in the body is somewhere along the lines of like 9 minutes.
 
Can you think of a compound that might work for this application? ie: sublingual administration immediately pre- and post-workout in a 3on/4off micro-cycle pulse? I know this is purely hypothetical, as no such product is on the market. Yet.
 
ImJ2x said:
Can you think of a compound that might work for this application? ie: sublingual administration immediately pre- and post-workout in a 3on/4off micro-cycle pulse? I know this is purely hypothetical, as no such product is on the market. Yet.
Click to expand...

tren base, or even acetate. I don't know if the ester is cleaved though, but I doubt it.
 
aspire210 said:
tren base, or even acetate. I don't know if the ester is cleaved though, but I doubt it.
Click to expand...

Hey, I bet I could find some of that, if I wanted to. But I know nothing of "real gear," so I'll have to do some homework.
Do you think there would be any value to using it this way? (Sublingual, pre- and post-workout, along with my Superdrol 3on/4off pulse.) Actually, I seem to recall that Tren is a great bulker, so it might be cool, in moderation. But I'm sure there are some downsides as well...
 
Hey, if a molecule can be absorbed sublingually, does that mean that it can also be absorbed transdermally, or do the two require different properties?

Someone needs to come up with a cycle that covers the full spectrum of deliveries...oral, sublingual, nasal, intramuscular, intravenous,......supositorilly?!!:blink:

I think that's all of them....
 
bound said:
Hey, if a molecule can be absorbed sublingually, does that mean that it can also be absorbed transdermally, or do the two require different properties?

Someone needs to come up with a cycle that covers the full spectrum of deliveries...oral, sublingual, nasal, intramuscular, intravenous,......supositorilly?!!:blink:

I think that's all of them....
Click to expand...

I'll pass on the suppository, lol. But I do think sublingual is an under-used delivery method. You don't have to methylate it (saving your liver from much abuse); it's much cleaner than transdermal delivery; and it's much more convenient than injections. Any opinions from the company reps about manufacturing sublingual products???
 
And speaking of transdermals, I would love to see some td patches (I think Androgel is a patch). Much cleaner than the td sprays and lotions.
 
ImJ2x said:
...thereby avoiding the "first pass" liver breakdown thingy. Wouldn't this be somewhat gentler on my liver than normal oral consumption?
Click to expand...
No, it's not gentler on the liver. The entire amount still has to be metabolized by the liver.

Also, if you pinned superdrol (or if sublingual worked for it) you would get higher blood serum levels than if swallowed orally, but not a significant enough amount to justify the trouble since superdrol is so cheap. And as said, the full amount still has to be metabolized by the liver. So no easier on the liver, unless you reduced the dosage to compensate for the higher blood serum levels.
 
Dude, that was like 40 posts ago -- catch up, lol.
The current question is, can they make an effective AS/PH specifically designed for sublingual administration? Something like this wouldn't need to be 17a methylated.
 
ImJ2x said:
Dude, that was like 40 posts ago -- catch up, lol.
The current question is, can they make an effective AS/PH specifically designed for sublingual administration? Something like this wouldn't need to be 17a methylated.
Click to expand...
Catch up? I just saw the thread and noticed that nobody had yet informed the guy that he's clueless about metabolism. I wasn't catching up. Just cleaning up after you guys.:rasp:

The biggest question would be what would justify the effort and trouble of sublingual development when we have orals and oil that work just fine and cause no issues in doses even 4x that of a normal sane person.
 
Pay attention, my friend...
If you can make sublingual administration work, you don't have to methylate the compound. That makes it much more liver-friendly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top