Just wondering

digitalducki

Well-known member
Are the bulk/mass products similar to the primordial performance products? I was bummed they got shut down I was planning on ordering from them soon!!!!!

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I assume u are talking about the alpha bulk and alpha mass by forerunner? And no. They arent. Theyre far weaker and less effective. They sure are riding the coattails of the androseries tho.
 
similar, yes. but very diffent

alpha mass = 1-dhea
alpha bulk = 4-dhea

i may be wring on andro series here, but i believe it was
andromass = 4-dhea, androsterone, epiandrosterone
androbulk = 4-dhea, nordhea
 
I assume u are talking about the alpha bulk and alpha mass by forerunner? And no. They arent. Theyre far weaker and less effective. They sure are riding the coattails of the androseries tho.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Also check the logs brah. They are just as effective. They are not riding the coattails of the stacked andro products. We brought these compounds to the market... (under another company years ago). PP didn't even sell half the stuff in the FRL line.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
You have no idea what you're talking about. Also check the logs brah. They are just as effective. They are not riding the coattails of the stacked andro products. We brought these compounds to the market... (under another company years ago). PP didn't even sell half the stuff in the FRL line.

Company sponsored logs? Yeah im sure they are. They arent just as effective. My rough estimate is about half. Maybe a little more than half. But not much.
 
I have personaly run both products from both companies and while they were both effective, i felt FRL was able to make products that were just as strong and half the price.

Just my opinion though.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
Nah we sold the products a year before ever giving out sponsored logs. Try again. Your rough estimate sucks.

Lets agree to disagree and quit trying to be aggressive just to take up for your company. Im well aware of how this works. They pay you, of course youre going to say their products are just as good. Jay cutler says "this is what i take" as he holds a bottle of build hd (crappy creatine product)... I guess im suppose to beleive him too huh?
 
Lets agree to disagree and quit trying to be aggressive just to take up for your company. Im well aware of how this works. They pay you, of course youre going to say their products are just as good. Jay cutler says "this is what i take" as he holds a bottle of build hd (crappy creatine product)... I guess im suppose to beleive him too huh?

Lets just say you are wrong and again have no idea what you're talking about. If you have anything useful to say please say it. Otherwise leave this sub forum with your "these suck cuz I said so" posts. Otherwise expect similar replies.

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Royd The Noyd said:
Lets just say you are wrong and again have no idea what you're talking about. If you have anything useful to say please say it. Otherwise leave this sub forum with your "these suck cuz I said so" posts. Otherwise expect similar replies.

Youre the ONLY person replying like this. Wonder why? Im sure it has nothing to do with u being a rep. And btw. I didnt really say they suck. They dont suck. But. Youre lying to yourself and you know it if you think they hold a candle to the androseries. Where is the FDA raiding you guys at ??? Primordial got raided because they work that good and FDA expects foul play. They would be doing the same to you if your stuff worked as well as primordials.
 
Youre the ONLY person replying like this. Wonder why? Im sure it has nothing to do with u being a rep. And btw. I didnt really say they suck. They dont suck. But. Youre lying to yourself and you know it if you think they hold a candle to the androseries. Where is the FDA raiding you guys at ??? Primordial got raided because they work that good and FDA expects foul play. They would be doing the same to you if your stuff worked as well as primordials.

Im obviously no rep and everyone is entitled to the opinion of their choice.

I liked primordial and believe that they truly wanted to do good, but to say that the FDA raided them because they were that much better is nonsense. They got raided because of their advertising and that they compared the androseries to actual injectable testosterone.
 
grandroid828 said:
Youre the ONLY person replying like this. Wonder why? Im sure it has nothing to do with u being a rep. And btw. I didnt really say they suck. They dont suck. But. Youre lying to yourself and you know it if you think they hold a candle to the androseries. Where is the FDA raiding you guys at ??? Primordial got raided because they work that good and FDA expects foul play. They would be doing the same to you if your stuff worked as well as primordials.

actually, people just arnt responding to your babling becuase its ****in stupid. the reasonn pp got raided was because they compared their substances to injectable test on their advertising, call their products dshea legal steroids, and they say that pp's products are overdosed to dangerous levels
 
well this thread went south pretty quick, but to the OP, yes the products are very similar whereas the PP products were usually a combination of different compounds, the FRL items are focused on 1 compound.. Alpha Mass= Ultra 1-dhea, Alpha Bulk= Ultra 4-dhea, 5-alpha test= epiandrosterone.. Andromass v2 was made up of 1-dhea and 4-dhea, the 1-dhea was removed and replaced with epiandrosterone in andromass v3 I believe. I like the FRL line and how you can control ur dosing on each of the compounds is quite convenient.
 
Youre the ONLY person replying like this. Wonder why? Im sure it has nothing to do with u being a rep. And btw. I didnt really say they suck. They dont suck. But. Youre lying to yourself and you know it if you think they hold a candle to the androseries. Where is the FDA raiding you guys at ??? Primordial got raided because they work that good and FDA expects foul play. They would be doing the same to you if your stuff worked as well as primordials.
News flash, we were raided years ago. Brb FDA is calling:FDA - "You brahs getting the gains from your products?"Me - "O yes we are sir"FDA - " BRB coming over"^That's exactly how the FDA works. You know everything.
 
Btw I was a primary member of the formulation team for all FRL products. So to say I believe in them just because I get a paycheck is nonsense. I believe in them because we worked our ass off to put the best product possible on the market.
 
grandroid828 said:
Company sponsored logs? Yeah im sure they are. They arent just as effective. My rough estimate is about half. Maybe a little more than half. But not much.

Have you read any FRL or AMS logs...? Looks like the work to me.
And I'm not just saying that cuz I like these guys.
I ran FRL and AMS stuff before...
 
grandroid828 said:
Lets agree to disagree and quit trying to be aggressive just to take up for your company. Im well aware of how this works. They pay you, of course youre going to say their products are just as good. Jay cutler says "this is what i take" as he holds a bottle of build hd (crappy creatine product)... I guess im suppose to beleive him too huh?

How is he being aggressive? You came into an FRL sub forum attacking the product. He reps them cuz he knows they work.
He defends their name because THESE PRODUCTS WORK.
Maybe you should aggressively leave.
 
FL3X MAGNUM said:
How is he being aggressive? You came into an FRL sub forum attacking the product. He reps them cuz he knows they work.
He defends their name because THESE PRODUCTS WORK.
Maybe you should aggressively leave.

I didnt attack? Did you read my post. Im entitled to the opinion that they "are far lest effective" than primordial. Is that an attack to you? No. He attacked me insulting me saying i dont know what im talking about. Pretty sure forum rules dont say anything about me not being able to state my opinion in a non hostile or offensive way.
 
grandroid828 said:
I didnt attack? Did you read my post. Im entitled to the opinion that they "are far lest effective" than primordial. Is that an attack to you? No. He attacked me insulting me saying i dont know what im talking about. Pretty sure forum rules dont say anything about me not being able to state my opinion in a non hostile or offensive way.

I never said you broke the rule. I was rather implying that you are speaking objectively and seeing how you have no first hand experience I'm guessing, your opinion doesn't matter here.
 
I didnt attack? Did you read my post. Im entitled to the opinion that they "are far lest effective" than primordial. Is that an attack to you? No. He attacked me insulting me saying i dont know what im talking about. Pretty sure forum rules dont say anything about me not being able to state my opinion in a non hostile or offensive way.
Actually you said:"I assume u are talking about the alpha bulk and alpha mass by forerunner? And no. They arent. Theyre far weaker and less effective. They sure are riding the coattails of the androseries tho."You said definitely they are weaker, and less effective. And that we are riding coattails. You presented zero evidence of any of that. You seem mad now? Did I hurt your internet feelings? My internet feelings feel guilty now.
 
My questions to FRL:

Alphabulk has 120mg of 4-DHEA
Andromass had 500mg 4-DHEA(+550mg androsterone)

What is to make me believe that Alpha bulk does not need to be mega dosed to get the same effect as Andromass?
 
My questions to FRL:

Alphabulk has 120mg of 4-DHEA
Andromass had 500mg 4-DHEA(+550mg androsterone)

What is to make me believe that Alpha bulk does not need to be mega dosed to get the same effect as Andromass?

And what was the price difference between the 2?
 
Ape McGrapes said:
My questions to FRL:

Alphabulk has 120mg of 4-DHEA
Andromass had 500mg 4-DHEA(+550mg androsterone)

What is to make me believe that Alpha bulk does not need to be mega dosed to get the same effect as Andromass?

My question to you is what makes you believe that the high dose of 4-DHEA in Andromass was necessary?
I've ran both compounds, and saw similar gains.
If you truly want to "mega dose" go ahead. It'll cost about the same in the end anyways.......
 
And what was the price difference between the 2?
More active equates to a higher price. Your logic doesn't add up.

Just because a 1lb tub of whey cost less than a 5lb tub, doesn't make it better than or equal too.


Flex, where is the research that 4-dhea has a point of deminishing returns? I'm not calling you a liar on your results, but it just doesn't add up to me. 4-DHEA requires a 2 step conversion process to become androstenedione/androstenediol and then ultimately testosterone. Adrostenedione(4-AD) had to be dosed 1000mg-3000mg orally and only took 1 step to convert. Hormone carriers aside; why am I to belive 120mg is enough?

I'm not saying you don't have a good product, but on paper it seems underdosed, and when dosed higher equates to a similar price. Only problem is you would need to take a **** ton of pills.
 
My questions to FRL:Alphabulk has 120mg of 4-DHEAAndromass had 500mg 4-DHEA(+550mg androsterone)What is to make me believe that Alpha bulk does not need to be mega dosed to get the same effect as Andromass?
I have played with a lot of 4-DHEA, and although I'm fairly sensitive to E2 in general, it seems the higher you take the dose the law of diminishing returns begins to apply. You start experiencing a greater increase in estrogen, and the additional 4-DHEA doesn't seem to really increase test beyond "normal" testosterone levels. They did claim it increased testosterone to supra physiological levels. I don't believe that was ever true. The amount we put in Alpha Bulk was designed to increase testosterone enough so that you would not experience the negative side effects of low libido, and lethargy due to zero to little testosterone in your system.
 
More active equates to a higher price. Your logic doesn't add up.

Just because a 1lb tub of whey cost less than a 5lb tub, doesn't make it better than or equal too.


Flex, where is the research that 4-dhea has a point of deminishing returns? I'm not calling you a liar on your results, but it just doesn't add up to me. 4-DHEA requires a 2 step conversion process to become androstenedione/androstenediol and then ultimately testosterone. Adrostenedione(4-AD) had to be dosed 1000mg-3000mg orally and only took 1 step to convert. Hormone carriers aside; why am I to belive 120mg is enough?

I'm not saying you don't have a good product, but on paper it seems underdosed, and when dosed higher equates to a similar price. Only problem is you would need to take a **** ton of pills.

Have you used the product yourself?
 
More active equates to a higher price. Your logic doesn't add up.

Just because a 1lb tub of whey cost less than a 5lb tub, doesn't make it better than or equal too.


Flex, where is the research that 4-dhea has a point of deminishing returns? I'm not calling you a liar on your results, but it just doesn't add up to me. 4-DHEA requires a 2 step conversion process to become androstenedione/androstenediol and then ultimately testosterone. Adrostenedione(4-AD) had to be dosed 1000mg-3000mg orally and only took 1 step to convert. Hormone carriers aside; why am I to belive 120mg is enough?

I'm not saying you don't have a good product, but on paper it seems underdosed, and when dosed higher equates to a similar price. Only problem is you would need to take a **** ton of pills.

Look at the androstenedione studies. They consistently found greater increases in estrogen compared to testosterone. Additionally we believe based on Invalid Link Removed that the two step 1-DHEA's/4-DHEA's are more efficiently converting to diols. Not diones. Our entire basis for dosing can be found at the following:

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Thank you. I will be back in here later, after I read them.
 
3clipseGT said:
Whoa whoa whoa, it was a simple question. No need for smart remarks.

That wasn't a smart remark, he spelled something wrong.
 
Youre the ONLY person replying like this. Wonder why? Im sure it has nothing to do with u being a rep. And btw. I didnt really say they suck. They dont suck. But. Youre lying to yourself and you know it if you think they hold a candle to the androseries. Where is the FDA raiding you guys at ??? Primordial got raided because they work that good and FDA expects foul play. They would be doing the same to you if your stuff worked as well as primordials.

You have no idea why the FDA raided PP. To simply say that it was because they worked that good is an ignorant statement at best. Please follow the following link to see what Eric of PP has said as to the reason. He even states that he himself does not know the full reason as because the affidavit is still sealed.


"They would be doing the same to you if your stuff worked as well as primodials" - - - Another ignorant statement at best. You could not even begin to deduce rhyme or reasoning of the FDA and how they work. What about all of the other companies, big and small, that sell products that work as well or are stronger? What about the companies that the FDA went after for Superdrol 5+ years after they stopped selling the product? It is awfully grandiose of you to think you know how this business works.

Reading your posts I equate to watching those slapstick type comedy movies where the character has no sense of self embarrassment that the movie watcher actually begins to feel embarrassed for them.
 
Guys, I'm studying the FDA and drug products liability course in law school right now, if PPs products are not illegal, the issue is the labeling and product claims not the actual product itself, I can't say exactly why they were raided, but based on available federal case law surrounding supplements, which YES the FDA has the power to regulate, I think the FDA will rule the PPs products are misbranded and are actually drugs not supplements, and therefore to be marketed they need to submit a pre-market approval through the FDA to be an actual drug, that would cost millions

The FDA can say a supplement is an actual drug if they want, especially with the claims a manufacturer makes and the effects it has on your body

But what I believe happened here, is that some other force is in play, unless there are massive amounts of filed complaints to the FDA about a supplement being dangerous etc, usually the FDA won't act unless they are persuaded by someone like a pharmaceutical company, or politicians that are lobbied by those companies, it could be that someone is testing and spending millions on PPs technology with oral non-methylated hormones

PP is a small fish to fry, the FDA is very small a actually and has very little time and resources to waste, I'm 95% sure there is a much bigger underlying reason other than the new laws coming out, because its much easier and the FDA would rather send an opinion letter to PP if it were their own internal reasons, trust me they don't care about most supplements, not the least bit
 
I ran bulk and mass and felt they were more effective than the primordial products. I recovered faster and gained more strength . I also had plenty of left over cash for staple supplements .
 
News flash, we were raided years ago. Brb FDA is calling:FDA - "You brahs getting the gains from your products?"Me - "O yes we are sir"FDA - " BRB coming over"^That's exactly how the FDA works. You know everything.

I didn't know you guys were raided. Just out of curiosity, what was the outcome of the raid? Are the DHEA isomers recognized by the FDA as dietary supplements, or do you think they're in the process of mounting an "attack" against them?
 
All those article really did was explain your hormone carrier, and to show that you propose that you get upto 70% bioavailability with it.
 
Royd is a stand up guy. Frl products work plain and simple. And comparing stacked products to single ingredient products is dumb. It's like comparing spawn to havoc. I personally always prefer the single products because I like the freedom to stack and dose how I see fit.

Keep doing your thing FRL.
 
FYI...Royd has more science knowledge then most on this forum. And if you get paid for your job to work, so why question him that? #EPICFAIL
 
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