Is this too many compounds for a cuttin cycle?
- Thread starter JoePaul39
- Start date
JoePaul39
Well-known member
Cool found it. That is the same lab I was going to send it to. I still might send it in if it isn’t too expensive. The guy who tested Sarms on YouTube found IRC Bio’s Ostarine was legit, but only dosed at half the amount they were advertising on the bottle.
Chados
Well-known member
Haha coming from my self critizining persona I appreciate that. The hard thing isn't to add muscles but to really nail the dieting and make the muscles visible. I have been bigger than I am now but I look almost as big now just with much less fat on my body. As Dr Cox says in scrubs when asked how he keeps himself in shape. You got to hate your own body haha.
You'll probably go really far with your dedication alone. Maybe you'll notice that you're happy at a certain point because it just fits your body. Hey if you come back and destroy me in 2 years you'll give me your diet right? ��
Borashi
Member
Yeah. In May my boss was like your ripped. Keep in mind, I was mid 160s then. Hadn't started to lift till June. I've always had good muscle tone but I haven't always had that big muscle definition. So honestly I'd rather clean bulk now while gaining some fat to build up that definition, so in future cycles I can cut to show off the muscle that gets packed on now. Arnold Schwarzenegger was well known to hate how his body looked. Having the discipline to constantly improve upon his appearance and not be satisfied with his progress, is what made him great. Many good bodybuilders out there. I want to be great, it'll take time, being good just isn't enough for me. Some will never get it. Some will. Every pursuit cones with a price. The question becomes how much are you willing to sacrifice to get to where you want to be.
Chados
Well-known member
Yeah definitely. Just don't let it get to your head cause there are more important things in life and goals that shouldn't be forgotten. Whenever you're satisfied with one area of life you'll probably need something else to keep satisfying you. That's why people with money aren't always happy cause they already have it and takes it for granted. This will become more noticible with age though. When I struggle with the gym it's mostly because something else in life isn't satisfying.
With your mindset I'm sure you can go very far though.
Borashi
Member
I get that. Lifting, training has become a lifestyle choice. Not all will appreciate or accept it, I'm cool with it. I got called a (Tool) at work on Friday. I just laughed it off. A lot of people have that small town mentality. If they don't understand it, they fear it. As I've been growing in the gym, I realized, I'll eventually either be respected or feared, with great success comes great responsibility, hopefully I will use that success to inspire others to live a better life. One day I will reach my goals, until then, I'll stay hungry, motivated, to do more and become better without being complacent.
Borashi
Member
The other part of training regarding getting nutrition and diet dialed in isn't cheap either. I'll probably get heat for this as I'm not the best at meal prep, I probably spend around $45 a day on food. So this isn't a cheap lifestyle choice. I believe in what I do and it's also kept me sober. I've cut alcohol out of my life completely. It's a personal choice, but one I feel really good about. I've been sober since I started lifting and might never drink again. Coming from a family of alcoholics, this is what I'm most proud of. Lifting has given me a refreshed outlook on life, I wish I would have been more consistent lifting in my 20s, but now I have the knowledge and desire to do more and be more. I believe the only limits in life are self imposed. Believe in yourself and great things happen. Don't listen to the noise, just grind, be humble, and stay focused. My time will come...
Chados
Well-known member
Hey if it makes you happy don't stop it. Just don't get to much in to one thing cause when you have it you will wanna achieve something else, that's what keeps us motivated to wake up in the morning.
I admire your dedication though and i think you'll get very far just by being dedicated
Matthersby
Well-known member
Welcome. You are truly not alone in your scenario. Dozens of good brothers here that have destroyed their addictions with this lifestyle.
Chados
Well-known member
Yeah I maybe this forum is good for people who understands each other because everyone seems to be in the same boat.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
Day 16. Lost 2 pounds this last week! About a half percent body fat. Followed the same weight lifting routine as the prior week and was able to add weight or additional reps for some, but not all exercises. Looks like I am slimming out in the mirror. No sides to report despite increasing S23 from 20 mg to 30 mg. No dark pee either like some report with this Sarm, but keep in mind I am taking 750 mg TUDCA and 1000 mg NAC is in the Arimicare Pro I am also taking. Sent 5 capsules of my S23 Narrows Labs into a lab for testing. I don’t doubt it is legit, but am curious to see if the advertised dosage in the Sarm is what it actually is in the capsules. I have faith in this company, but figured it is worth the $225 for peace of mind for upcoming orders since they are the manufacturer I rely on. I will post the lab results on here when I get them back (Lab said typically a 3 week turn around time). Received my additional bottle of S23 in the mail today. Narrows also threw in a free bottle of Cardarine due to shipping being delayed a couple days (very nice as this was not asked for, nor had I complained). Measured blood pressure for first time on cycle today and it was 120 over 80 so obviously happy with that. I have two bottles of Olympus Labs Rad 140 sitting around and have decided to add in 12 mg a day of Rad beginning today since I currently have no sides to report on this cycle. This was done because there is currently someone running a solo log on this forum for Rad and it has provided him tremendous results with their cut, so figured why not throw it in, rather than wait for a future bulk cycle to run it like I had planned. Will post another update to this thread in 7 days.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
Invalid Link Removed
$225. This is the same lab Narrows uses and also the lab that guy who made the YouTube video to test 4 Ostarines used. Owners name is Collin. Who is the
manufacturer of the Sarm you want to have tested? I was only going to send one capsule cause I thought the price was per capsule, but it is per compound so he encouraged me to send in 5 or or so to get an average because just having one examined probably wouldn’t give a fair reading since the sample is too small.
$225. This is the same lab Narrows uses and also the lab that guy who made the YouTube video to test 4 Ostarines used. Owners name is Collin. Who is the
manufacturer of the Sarm you want to have tested? I was only going to send one capsule cause I thought the price was per capsule, but it is per compound so he encouraged me to send in 5 or or so to get an average because just having one examined probably wouldn’t give a fair reading since the sample is too small.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
I noticed that about them too. No address, website, phone number. I like Narrows because it has all the above. They even take returns of unopened product.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
23 days in. Having fantastic results. Lost nearly 3 pounds in a week and an additional half percent body fat. In addition even though I have only been consuming about 1500 calories a day in an extreme cut I have for the 2nd week in a row been able to increase weights on about half of my exercises. Added 20 pounds on to my squat. No sides except have started to experience some tingling in my fingers at night when sleeping. I think this is from the Rad 140 because I read another log of someone using that who experienced it. Also, blood pressure went up from last week from a perfect 120 over 80 to slightly high at 135 over 76 this week. This is not too much of a surprise since I am on 4 compounds including Epi Andro which is a prohormone.
Due to another member on this board getting S23 induced jaundice and multiple users reporting bad liver blood work I have decided to bump up my TUDCA from 750 mg to 1500 mg. In addition, toward the end of week 5 I plan to have liver bloods. If liver results come back ok I will go through 8 weeks, but if they are tanked I will be treating this Sarm like I am running a methylated designer steroid and will be cutting out the S23 at week 5 and using the rest left over for a future cycle.
Due to another member on this board getting S23 induced jaundice and multiple users reporting bad liver blood work I have decided to bump up my TUDCA from 750 mg to 1500 mg. In addition, toward the end of week 5 I plan to have liver bloods. If liver results come back ok I will go through 8 weeks, but if they are tanked I will be treating this Sarm like I am running a methylated designer steroid and will be cutting out the S23 at week 5 and using the rest left over for a future cycle.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
Here is my lab test certificate I got back on my 10 mg capsules of S23 from Narrows Labs. It tested legit, but the average dosage of the 5 capsules was only 7.9 mg.
Attachments
JoePaul39
Well-known member
Started out at 750 mg for first 3 weeks. After that poster reported S23 induced jaundice I upped it to 1500 mg this last week (probably overkill to be honest). This includes the 250 mg in the Arimicare Pro I am taking. I have loved my S23 run and will be doing it again. I am probably going to cut it off at 5 weeks though since my liver took a hit.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
I am on trt so I don’t have to do PCT. I am stopping the S23 run as of tonight. I started to experience hair loss today. I knew going in this was a potential side from S23, but thought if it occurred it would be gradual, thus I could cease it before much damage is done. I was wrong. No sign of hair loss until today. I looked at the back of my head and I am missing about a square inch of hair! I am hoping it is a temporary shed and my hair will regrow after I have stopped, but there are no guarantees. I am also stopping the Epi Andro as that converts to DHT which is the last thing you need when you are hoping to regrow hair. Gonna start up some Rogaine too. For the last 4 weeks I will just be running the 25 mg Ostarine and the 12 mg Rad 140. I don’t think I will post any more update on this thread as most of the interest in my cycle seems to be centered on the S23. If I were you I wouldn’t run it. Run the DMZ instead. Between the liver and hair loss S23 is not worth it in my opinion (although my lifts were going way up and I was getting shredded), the costs outweigh the benefits in my opinion.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
Been thinking about this Sarm. IF (and that is a big if) it grows back I have changed my mind and would run it again, but no longer than 4 weeks as that is when the shedding started. I also would run it at 20 mg instead of 30 mg and see if that helps. I can live with a little temporary shedding if I know it will come back, but permanent hair loss is a no go for me. Wouldn’t run it beyond 4 weeks due to the liver and hair issues. Even if the hair loss is temporary I could only imagine how rediculous I would look like at the end of week 8. Of course could always just shave my head so I could run it for 8 lol!
JoePaul39
Well-known member
Well woke up today and got my hair shaved! The patch of hair I loss is now hardly noticeable! I have had male pattern baldness developing since my early twenties and have made a decision I am fine with loosing my hair (probably already lost 50% already at 40). I would rather be swole and bald than bald and scrawny! I also got my testosterone and Hematocrit labs back. Not a surprise test measures in at 1500 due to my 175mg dosage of trt! What is a surprise to me is my hematocrit actually wen down! Not on any compounds other than my trt dose I had a reading of 51.8. It now reads only 44.4! This is great news and certainly not something you could expect if you were on an anabolic steroid which would do the opposite to the reading. This coupled with my liver reading of ALT levels only being at 49 I have changed my mind and decided to continue through with my cycle until the end of 8 weeks as originally planned while on my Arimicare Pro (includes 1000 mg NAC) and 1500 mg TUDCA. I did some research regarding ALT levels and read normal ranges can be considered up to a 56 which would actually put me at normal depending on the lab used. I also read elevations that are two to three times higher than that are only considered "mild". "Severe" elevations of Hematocrit is considered in the 1500 range which I am no where near either. I have come to believe with the proper support supplements and TUDCA run very high with a gallon to two gallons of water a day and if one keeps an eye on potential changes in urine color this Sarm can be run. I plan to get lipids and liver tests done in 4 weeks at the end of the cycle. Having great results...just couldn't come off . Below are my latest bloods. Will post my week four progress report tomorrow after I do my weekly weigh in.
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
JoePaul39
Well-known member
Weekly update. 4 and a half weeks in. Lifts continue to increase. I eat the same thing each day and thought I was at 1500 calories a day, but actually calculated it and I am in fact at only 1300 (still eating 190 grams protein though), thus it is truly amazing that the lifts continue to go up at such a deficit. I have decided if all goes well the rest of this cycle I will be running most of the same compounds (including the S23) again, but instead of Epi Andro I plan on running 20 mg LGD since it will be a bulk along not a cut, along with 15 mg Rad 140, 30 mg S23, 25 mg Ostarine, 330 mg 1 Andro, along side a trt cruise does of either 175 or 200 mg test a week. Would love to see what the S23 would do in terms of muscle growth if I was actually in a calorie surplus at say 3000 calories a day. Weighed in actually a pound heavier this week which is puzzling at such a low calorie intake. Body fat pretty much remained the same despite the weight increase, thus maybe I even added a litttle muscle. Can’t decrease calories any further since I am already so low, thus I am going to start lifting 6 days a week instead of 5, and up my cardio from six weekly 20 minute sessions, to seven days a week with two twenty minute sessions a day (includes HIIT every other day). Don’t think I will be at risk of overtraing since I am on so many compounds. No new hair shedding since losing a patch and have added in Rogaine. No new sides. Blood pressure was good at 130 over 83 today. The nighttime tingling I use to experience in my fingers when I began the cycle which I suspect is from the Rad 140 has ceased for about the last week.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
Low carb high protein. About 190 grams protein (I am about 190 pounds so that is a gram of protein a pound of body weight), under 100 grams carbs a day, and the rest from fat.
It’s a very dull diet, but I don’t mind it.. Five 160 calorie 30 gram Premier Protein Shakes (one consumed 30 minutes preworkout one post workout with a bottle of Gatorade,, 3 servings Oscar Meyer rotisserie chicken lunch meat (30 grams protein total), 1 Kroger brand Carbmaster low carb yogurt (9 grams protein), 1 slice Ezekiel Bread low Glycemic sprouted grain bread (4 grams protein), a can of green beans, and four fish oil pills.
Borashi
Member
Man. I respect your discipline. Not sure if I could trim my calories that low, though I would love to do a cut this summer. I mean my typical day is: 300 calorie protein shake for breakfast, steak/baked potato/salad without anything on any of it for lunch, some form of protein 3 hours later like cheese sticks, then chicken breast,potatoes,carrots for dinner, same about 2 to 3 hrs later, then 6 hard boiled eggs about 2 hrs later, then cottage cheese before bed. I mean like my calories can be around 3200-3500 on any given day. Weekends, I still eat clean but add more fish or turkey, cycle out my proteins more on the weekend. I could do better in tracking my macros, but whatever, I eat 90% clean and enjoy it.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
Sounds like a pretty good diet man. Ya I cheat occasionally too as a reward for eating healthy. I wish I could lose weight on more calories, but I have been dieting so long that my body keeps adjusting every time I cut calories. I use to be able to lose weight at 2,000 to 2,200 calories a day less than a year ago, but my body adjusted after awhile and now it takes cutting to 1300 calories to lose weight. Can’t really cut calories any further and still get adequate carbs for energy and protein intake to maintain muscle. I have cut on an andro cycle and now this cycle. To be honest I have come to believe cutting is best reserved when you are off cycle because you can get more out of a cycle by gaining additional muscle on an anabolic bulk if you eat clean than if your cutting and your sole goal is to lose weight while maintaining muscle. I am 5 foot 10 about 188 pounds, thus I don’t want to get too skinny. I am about 20 percent body fat now. 15 percent would be ideal and I would cease all cuts. Some guys are genetically gifted to obtain a lot lower body fat percentages than that, but not my body type. In the future I am only doing cuts off cycle on my trt cruise dose of test and save cycles solely for a bulk. This will prevent me from getting too skinny and always give me something to strive for both when I am on cycle and off cycle as well. If you cut too long you have to cut too many calories like I had to do plus it gets dull after just two or three months. Got to change it up.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
Week 5 and a half. Now lifting 6 days a week instead of five for an hour to an hour and a half a day in a split routine. Continue to add 10 to 20 pounds on most lifts! I am absolutely loving it. The S23 combined with the Epi Andro is giving me a leaned out look. Upped my dosage of Rad 140 from 12 mg to 28 mg earlier this week since I have no fatigue or nose bleeds like other users have reported from Rad.. The pumps and vascularity is through the roof! I wanted to increase cardio from 1 twenty minute session a day to 2 twenty minute cardio sessions a day, but this proved too much so I am doing one 20 minute session and one 10 minute session a day for seven days a week. Still eating around 1300 calories per day. Ate clean and the same foods each day except for Thanksgiving. I also had a 1300 or so calorie binge meal the other night on chips, popcorn, and peanut butter crackers when I got upset because noticed some additional hair shedding rearing its ugly head despite having added Rogaine to my routine. I again contemplated stopping the S23 due to this as I will not know if it is a permanent shed until after the cycle. Instead i opted to go to a barber for the first time and instead of having my head shaved with a clipper I had it shaved the shortest you can get it with a razor blade by the barber. This fixed my problem as the bald spots are now once again unnoticeable and I actually prefer my head shaved since I already was thinning. . I plan to continue with razor shaves at the barber once a week which will enable me to run compounds I might otherwise not due to not having to worry about hair shedding now. Only noticeable side effects are hair shedding and some hand tingling when in bed at night. My wife has complained saying I have become more verbally more aggressive toward her as well as we had a couple arguements over the week, but I think it was coincidental. Blood pressure today was 125 over 81. I weighed myself yesterday and came in a pound and a half heavier than last week, but at the same body fat. Weighed myself again today and there was some fluctuation as it came in at up only one pound with the same body fat. Either way I am gaining muscle despite trying to cut. The cut is becoming more of a recomp I guess. I can’t wait to run the S23 and Rad again in a calorie surplus and see what kind of results I get. If my weight goes up again next week I may just run the final 2 weeks if this cycle as a bulk and see what happens. Will post another update next week here.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
Forgot to mention one other new side that I suspect is from the Rad 140 as other users have experienced the same. I have some acne that has broke out that is confined to my shoulders. It is not too terrible, only about 3 or 4 zits and they have gone down drastically after I treated them with acne meds. I am sure folks at the gym probably think I am on roids since I wear a tank top to lift in, thus it is noticeable.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
6 and a half weeks in. Some lifts are still increasing, but not at the rate as prior weeks. I weighed in down a few more pounds and dropped an additional 1 percent body fat in only one weeks time. S23 is superb in doing its job of preserving muscle while cutting. I have decided all future cuts will only be while I am on compounds and the villa too. I am 40 now so muscle is getting harder to come by and keep so I don’t want to risk losing muscle when in a calorie deficit off cycle or gaining too much fat when attempting to bulk. While off cycle my only goals will be to maintain and increase cardio endurance. No additional hair shedding. I continue to use the Rogaine. I had posted last week that I believe I had lost more hair even after adding the Rogaine, but my wife convinced me that was in my head. Rewarded myself on Saturday night for all my progress thus far by going out to eat and having a burger, fries, nachos, and a cookie. Other than that I ate perfectly clean all week and maintained my diet at all times. I have one and a half weeks left and plan to make the most of it. At the end of this cycle I will be getting liver, lipids, and Hematocrit blood work. If the liver values come back not too far out of range will be taking 8 weeks off then running S23 again along with some 1 andro I have stocked up at 330 mg, Rad 140 at 30 mg, and LGD at either 10 or 20 mg for an 8 week bulk. I have always loved lifting, it as of late especially the gym has never been so much fun!
JoePaul39
Well-known member
I would add in the S23 because it is noticeable in just a few days and in 4 weeks you will be impressed. Some
of the compounds listed in KONG like Ostarine take at
least 4 weeks to start seeing results, thus should be Kong is probably best suited for 8 week runs in my opinion. I am debating for my next run if I should use 10 mg or 20 mg of LGD. 10 is typical, but many here have had even better results with 20 mg a day.
Chados
Well-known member
Im have very little in knowledge about s23, considering its a Sarm it shouldn't give hairloss but s23 seems to be different in so many ways so I wouldn't be surprised. It basically seems to be a step back in the development of sarms
JoePaul39
Well-known member
Sounds like an excellent plan!
JoePaul39
Well-known member
S23 still has some health advantages over steroids. My Hematocrit went down not up while onit and my blood pressure is not elevated from it. Plus it shoulnt cause things like enlarged heart and it is actually know to shrink the prostate, rather than enlarge it like steroids are known to do. Plus it doesn’t aromatize into estradiol. But yes it may be the only Sarm that can cause hair loss in some users and can also be harsh on the liver like a methylated steroid and also shut you down if you are not on trt. Definitely best to be on trt if you take it to avoid shut down and also run some Nac at 1000 mg and TUDCA at 1250 mg for liver support.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
At least eating is fun so have at it! I have enjoyed this cut, but in a way I am looking forward to one week from now when it ends so I can stop starving myself and up my calories a 1000 a day back to maintennce. I am 185 pounds too, but my maintenance level calories to maintain weight is low at about 2400 calories a day. How tall are you? I am 5 foot 10.