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Is this overkill?

Drolball

Member
Finishing a epi-10, epiandro stack the end of the week.

Epi 0/20/20/30/30/30
Epiandro 600//600/700/700/700/700

Is my pct overkill?

Nolva 20/20/10/10
DAA 3g
Lean xtreme 3/3/3/3
Arimistane 0/0/3/2/2/1

Should I drop the lean xtreme? Too much cortisol control?
 
Drolball said:
Finishing a epi-10, epiandro stack the end of the week.

Epi 0/20/20/30/30/30
Epiandro 600//600/700/700/700/700

Is my pct overkill?

Nolva 20/20/10/10
DAA 3g
Lean xtreme 3/3/3/3
Arimistane 0/0/3/2/2/1

Should I drop the lean xtreme? Too much cortisol control?
Click to expand...

If you were gonna drop something, drop the arimistane... its almost useless. If you need an ai (and you really should have one after such a dry cycle), get something like inhibit-e or a legit pharma ai.
 
booneman77 said:
If you were gonna drop something, drop the arimistane... its almost useless. If you need an ai (and you really should have one after such a dry cycle), get something like inhibit-e or a legit pharma ai.
Click to expand...

This. I would drop the DAA as well. I would instead add a natural ababolic to help with libido, strength, etc. AlphaMax XT and M-Test are good options.
 
Thanks for the replies. So ill pick up some Inhibit-e and M-test. Should I run the inhibit-e the same way I was going to run the arimistane? And keep the lean xtreme as it is?
 
Drolball said:
Thanks for the replies. So ill pick up some Inhibit-e and M-test. Should I run the inhibit-e the same way I was going to run the arimistane? And keep the lean xtreme as it is?
Click to expand...

Actually I would flip the layouts.

Start the inhibit e immediately post cycle (or no later than week 2) and run a week or two past your serm. Start the LX in week 2 or 3 and run out past serm as well
 
Run Reduce XT over Lean Xtreme. It's the superior cortisol control supplement.
 
booneman77 said:
Actually I would flip the layouts.

Start the inhibit e immediately post cycle (or no later than week 2) and run a week or two past your serm. Start the LX in week 2 or 3 and run out past serm as well
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks a lot man.

So will be
Nolva 20/20/10/10
Inhibit e 0/3/2/2/1/1
LX 0/3/3/3/3 (already have this on hand or would get reduce xt)
M-test recommended dosage
And maybe DAA too 3g
 
Drolball said:
Cool, thanks a lot man.

So will be
Nolva 20/20/10/10
Inhibit e 0/3/2/2/1/1
LX 0/3/3/3/3 (already have this on hand or would get reduce xt)
M-test recommended dosage
And maybe DAA too 3g
Click to expand...

that's a solid pct. only other thing I ever add is some natural anabolic but that's only if you've got extra $.

For me, my mentality is to add as much as I can afford simply because anything i can do to help ensure that i keep or further any gains I made while on cycle (i.e stressing my body to the max and potentially risking any sides, short or long term) im gonna do.
 
bigdavid said:
Why is arimistane useless?
Click to expand...

Originally it was thought to be a decent ai but that has since been proven false. It's cortisol control properties are also far less than something like LX or reduce xt so in this case, it's pretty much just wasting money.
 
booneman77 said:
Originally it was thought to be a decent ai but that has since been proven false. It's cortisol control properties are also far less than something like LX or reduce xt so in this case, it's pretty much just wasting money.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I’ve been away from the forum for a few years and wasn’t aware of new info about arimistane...do you happen to know where I might find that information? Was there a study done or is it based on blood work from forum members? Genuinely curious.
 
Drolball said:
Finishing a epi-10, epiandro stack the end of the week.

Epi 0/20/20/30/30/30
Epiandro 600//600/700/700/700/700

Is my pct overkill?

Nolva 20/20/10/10
DAA 3g
Lean xtreme 3/3/3/3
Arimistane 0/0/3/2/2/1

Should I drop the lean xtreme? Too much cortisol control?
Click to expand...

neither Epi or Epiandro aromatize, right?

if that's correct, I don't think you'll need an AI in PCT. I agree about dropping that and the DAA.

personally, I'd just go with a SERM and make sure you're getting enough zinc, magnesium and vit D.
 
bigdavid said:
Thanks for the info. I’ve been away from the forum for a few years and wasn’t aware of new info about arimistane...do you happen to know where I might find that information? Was there a study done or is it based on blood work from forum members? Genuinely curious.
Click to expand...

im pretty sure both... on mobile so no clue where to point you though but its basically common knowledge at this point
 
CatSnake said:
neither Epi or Epiandro aromatize, right?

if that's correct, I don't think you'll need an AI in PCT. I agree about dropping that and the DAA.

personally, I'd just go with a SERM and make sure you're getting enough zinc, magnesium and vit D.
Click to expand...

neither do, but epistane actually is a mild ai and can cause rebound estro issues which is why you DO want an ai in pct.
 
booneman77 said:
im pretty sure both... on mobile so no clue where to point you though but its basically common knowledge at this point
Click to expand...

I’ve looked around for a while and couldn’t really find any specifics saying it is a poor AI besides it just being weaker on a per-mg basis vs. aromasin. I know personally 100-150 mg arimistane per day has saved me from gyno flares on cycle similar to 2.5 mg letro or even nolva.
 
Drolball said:
Why’s everyone against DAA?
Click to expand...

For me it actually did more harm than good... had some sides from it that just were not worth any minor benefit it might have had.

Also, theres at least 1 study showing that if you already have healthy t levels, it can actually lower them.
 
Drolball said:
Cool, thanks a lot man.

So will be
Nolva 20/20/10/10
Inhibit e 0/3/2/2/1/1
LX 0/3/3/3/3 (already have this on hand or would get reduce xt)
M-test recommended dosage
And maybe DAA too 3g
Click to expand...

This PCT is solid as hell!
 
Thank you everyone for the info on DAA. I dropped that from pct. I’m on day 2 and experiencing some joint pain. Right now taking 20mg nolva, m-test, multi-v, fish oil, and creatine. Is this joint pain a normal side from nolva? Or is my estro still low from epi? Didn’t feel this bad on cycle however
 
Always drop the DAA... its the worst supplement ever

hardly does anything for Test... and could supress test if dosed improperly

Also shown to increase prolactin
 
Drolball said:
Thank you everyone for the info on DAA. I dropped that from pct. I’m on day 2 and experiencing some joint pain. Right now taking 20mg nolva, m-test, multi-v, fish oil, and creatine. Is this joint pain a normal side from nolva? Or is my estro still low from epi? Didn’t feel this bad on cycle however
Click to expand...

Naw probably not the nolva. Probably your body just adjusting. When your hormones fluctuate, weird **** happens.
 
Sup guys, thought I’d give an update on how everything is going.

Finished the nolva on Wednesday, running another week of inhibit-e at 1 cap.

Everything was going good through pct. boys came back, libido was increasing, mood and energy were good. Now almost a week off the serm, I have very low libido/weak erections, low mood, and low motivation. On the upside, I’ve lost very little strength and muscle.

I plan on getting blood work in a month but I’ve been worrying the last few days. My boys have lost a little size since stopping the nolva as well. Any advice would be appreciated.
 
Do you have any nolva left? You could run 10 daily for another 2-4 weeks if you have to. Might just need more time for your axis to be stable on its own
 
Drolball said:
Sup guys, thought I’d give an update on how everything is going.

Finished the nolva on Wednesday, running another week of inhibit-e at 1 cap.

Everything was going good through pct. boys came back, libido was increasing, mood and energy were good. Now almost a week off the serm, I have very low libido/weak erections, low mood, and low motivation. On the upside, I’ve lost very little strength and muscle.

I plan on getting blood work in a month but I’ve been worrying the last few days. My boys have lost a little size since stopping the nolva as well. Any advice would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

how long in total was your PCT?

you might as well just get bloodwork now....
 
CatSnake said:
how long in total was your PCT?

you might as well just get bloodwork now....
Click to expand...

It was 4 weeks of Nolva 20/20/10/10. I also used m-test, LX (I finished this wednesday), inhibit-e (I'm still running till next wednesday). I thought it was too early to get bloodwork? I've read one month minimum.
 
Could always be estrogen is too low. Nolva is slightly estrogenic so could help low estrogen states. Do you have estrogen related sides or the opposite? Likely issue here is just your body decreasing lh output from stopping the serm. Sometimes can take a dip for a week or two before going back up again (or more accurately before your testis can respond adequately to the lh)
 
bigdavid said:
Could always be estrogen is too low. Nolva is slightly estrogenic so could help low estrogen states. Do you have estrogen related sides or the opposite? Likely issue here is just your body decreasing lh output from stopping the serm. Sometimes can take a dip for a week or two before going back up again (or more accurately before your testis can respond adequately to the lh)
Click to expand...

That makes me feel way better. Low estrogen could be the problem. I have achy/cracking joints, sleep hasn’t been great, fatigue, irritability, and night sweats along with the low libido. Would you recommend stopping the inhibit at this point? And just let my body return to homeostasis on its own
 
Drolball said:
That makes me feel way better. Low estrogen could be the problem. I have achy/cracking joints, sleep hasn’t been great, fatigue, irritability, and night sweats along with the low libido. Would you recommend stopping the inhibit at this point? And just let my body return to homeostasis on its own
Click to expand...

See it's a tricky situation because the low estrogen could very well be from low testosterone (i.e., not high enough test levels to aromatize in sufficient amounts), or it could be isolated and your test is in the normal range. The issue is that AIs also keep test levels higher than they would be at otherwise, like serms in that regard. Id say do what makes sense for you in terms of quality of life. You don't have much time left with the inhibit-E, if I were you id just finish the bottle, cause otherwise you'll just have a bottle 1/4 full and collecting dust. Id say order some more nolva or even clomid and use either for 4 weeks just to get you back to how you felt before stopping the nolva. You could also just wait it out but Id get some ASAP in case you decide you want to restart it after trying to be off everything for a few weeks.
 
bigdavid said:
See it's a tricky situation because the low estrogen could very well be from low testosterone (i.e., not high enough test levels to aromatize in sufficient amounts), or it could be isolated and your test is in the normal range. The issue is that AIs also keep test levels higher than they would be at otherwise, like serms in that regard. Id say do what makes sense for you in terms of quality of life. You don't have much time left with the inhibit-E, if I were you id just finish the bottle, cause otherwise you'll just have a bottle 1/4 full and collecting dust. Id say order some more nolva or even clomid and use either for 4 weeks just to get you back to how you felt before stopping the nolva. You could also just wait it out but Id get some ASAP in case you decide you want to restart it after trying to be off everything for a few weeks.
Click to expand...

Okay so I'll finish the inhibit, and I just ordered some clomid. If I don't feel any improvement by the time it comes in I'll just start it. I'll do 4 weeks at 50/50/25/25. Should I get another AI when tapering?
 
Drolball said:
Okay so I'll finish the inhibit, and I just ordered some clomid. If I don't feel any improvement by the time it comes in I'll just start it. I'll do 4 weeks at 50/50/25/25. Should I get another AI when tapering?
Click to expand...

Play it by ear with the clomid dose. You might be able to get away with just 25 throughout since you’ll be more recovered than not. My good friend almost doubled his test levels with 25 clomid and a tiny dose of letro twice a week. It’s always good to have an AI around to be honest but I doubt you’ll need it
 
bigdavid said:
Play it by ear with the clomid dose. You might be able to get away with just 25 throughout since you’ll be more recovered than not. My good friend almost doubled his test levels with 25 clomid and a tiny dose of letro twice a week. It’s always good to have an AI around to be honest but I doubt you’ll need it
Click to expand...

Cool will start at 25 and go from there. Thanks a lot man, appreciate it.

I’ll give an update in month.
 
Hey man, awesome post about serms. I agree next time 6 weeks at 20 or just use clomid as it appears to be superior for hpta recovery.

From my understanding, you need to wait for the serm to completely clear from the body or it can throw off the blood results. Standard seems to be a month, but some guys wait 6-8 weeks.
 
Drolball said:
Sup guys, thought I’d give an update on how everything is going.

Finished the nolva on Wednesday, running another week of inhibit-e at 1 cap.

Everything was going good through pct. boys came back, libido was increasing, mood and energy were good. Now almost a week off the serm, I have very low libido/weak erections, low mood, and low motivation. On the upside, I’ve lost very little strength and muscle.

I plan on getting blood work in a month but I’ve been worrying the last few days. My boys have lost a little size since stopping the nolva as well. Any advice would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

You don't need to wait a month after discontinuing a SERM to get bloods. Get them 2 weeks after, that should be plenty of time to let it leave you system.
 
bigdavid said:
Play it by ear with the clomid dose. You might be able to get away with just 25 throughout since you’ll be more recovered than not. My good friend almost doubled his test levels with 25 clomid and a tiny dose of letro twice a week. It’s always good to have an AI around to be honest but I doubt you’ll need it
Click to expand...

Hey man wanted to get your opinion again. So I’ve been taking the Clomid for 4 weeks at 25/25/12.5/12.5. I dropped because I was feeling recovered.

Just a few days ago I started getting very bloated with some quick fat gain. Even worse my scrotum is high and tight. Libido is low as well. I’m thinking I’m having some high estrogen symptoms now so I ordered some exemestane.

Once that comes in I’ll have nolva, Clomid, and exem on hand. Appreciate any help.
 
Drolball said:
Hey man wanted to get your opinion again. So I’ve been taking the Clomid for 4 weeks at 25/25/12.5/12.5. I dropped because I was feeling recovered.

Just a few days ago I started getting very bloated with some quick fat gain. Even worse my scrotum is high and tight. Libido is low as well. I’m thinking I’m having some high estrogen symptoms now so I ordered some exemestane.

Once that comes in I’ll have nolva, Clomid, and exem on hand. Appreciate any help.
Click to expand...

Get a blood test.
 
Drolball said:
Hey man wanted to get your opinion again. So I’ve been taking the Clomid for 4 weeks at 25/25/12.5/12.5. I dropped because I was feeling recovered.

Just a few days ago I started getting very bloated with some quick fat gain. Even worse my scrotum is high and tight. Libido is low as well. I’m thinking I’m having some high estrogen symptoms now so I ordered some exemestane.

Once that comes in I’ll have nolva, Clomid, and exem on hand. Appreciate any help.
Click to expand...

At this point id just stay on the clomid dose and get blood work and see where you are. It may be hard to gauge estrogen levels at this point because some fat gain could be from simply being off cycle and your body isn't as anabolic as it was before. Recovery is different for everyone obviously, but you need to get some objective measures at this point. Don't sweat being on a serm or AI while getting the bloodwork. It can still be interpreted in its proper context and you can make adjustments from there.
 
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