Is there anything that’s like a better epi-andro?

clevelandsae

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My favorite stack is 1 andro/epiandro/androsterone. I've done 2 runs of hardrock supps super mandro (1 andro) r-andro shred (androsterone and 7dhea) and CEL stanoplex. Usually dose the epiandro preworkout, and 1 andro/androsterone spaced out throughout the day. Always lean out big time, look full and vascular and strong. Definitely an expensive cycle, but with the minimal sides and super easy recovery, it's worth it to me.
how long do you run it? 6 weeks or so?
 

hyperCat

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My favorite stack is 1 andro/epiandro/androsterone. I've done 2 runs of hardrock supps super mandro (1 andro) r-andro shred (androsterone and 7dhea) and CEL stanoplex. Usually dose the epiandro preworkout, and 1 andro/androsterone spaced out throughout the day. Always lean out big time, look full and vascular and strong. Definitely an expensive cycle, but with the minimal sides and super easy recovery, it's worth it to me.
I'm willing to spend a little more these days for less sides for sure. This sounds like a solid stack to me. Less liver stress, more energy, good strength, and with the 1-andro, some decent size. Who has the best deal on 1-andro right now?
 

Cheeky Kunt

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Can someone breakdown the difference between Epiandro, R-Andro, and 3AD to me? These are all essentially the same in terms of effects, no? (energy, vascularity, libido increase, etc.)
 

patrick25

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If you can be patient evomuse is getting ready to drop myosynergy. Blr is also dropping the newest anabolic soon. Someone said evomuse andro lotion is great stuff but I don't think anyone has really confirmed what is in it.
 

Scottfalcon

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how long do you run it? 6 weeks or so?
My favorite way to run it is 8 weeks 1 andro, and then run androsterone and epiandro another 4 weeks past for a total of 12 weeks. 1 andro really starts to shine for me around 4-5 weeks so ending it at 6 weeks leaves alot on the table in my opinion. I've PCTd with clomid, and even though it's not recommended, last time I used Mtest, anabolic effect and sustain alpha, and i felt better than clomid, maintained 90% of strength and size gains, and after 8 weeks my bloodwork was all good. The only thing to watch for is lipids and liver enzymes. I know everyone says they arent methylated s they are easy on the liver, but both runs I had elevated enzymes (nothing crazy high but a little out of range). I dont drink or anything that should affect my liver and normally my enzymes are perfect.
 
thebigt

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My favorite way to run it is 8 weeks 1 andro, and then run androsterone and epiandro another 4 weeks past for a total of 12 weeks. 1 andro really starts to shine for me around 4-5 weeks so ending it at 6 weeks leaves alot on the table in my opinion. I've PCTd with clomid, and even though it's not recommended, last time I used Mtest, anabolic effect and sustain alpha, and i felt better than clomid, maintained 90% of strength and size gains, and after 8 weeks my bloodwork was all good. The only thing to watch for is lipids and liver enzymes. I know everyone says they arent methylated s they are easy on the liver, but both runs I had elevated enzymes (nothing crazy high but a little out of range). I dont drink or anything that should affect my liver and normally my enzymes are perfect.
not bad, I am on week 3, 1st bottle of icon one[1-andro+dermacrine]plan on running 2 bottles. then going to run 1 bottle of alpha seven[androsterone] and alpha stano[epiandro].

I am on trt 100mg test cyp weekly but will run m-test/sustain alpha/Invictus for pct.

we are running close to same cycle!!!
 
u_e_s_i

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Thanks for the feedback boys 👊🏻

what would you guys say the differences between androsterone and 11-keto are? The overviews I’ve found look really similar haha

And if I was to run androsterone with epiandro how should I dose them and what should I do for PCT?
I can get my hands on clomid / nova so that part should be fine
 
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u_e_s_i

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Also have any of you noticed any changes in your hormonal baseline after spending however long cycling these things?
 

aman88

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My favorite way to run it is 8 weeks 1 andro, and then run androsterone and epiandro another 4 weeks past for a total of 12 weeks. 1 andro really starts to shine for me around 4-5 weeks so ending it at 6 weeks leaves alot on the table in my opinion. I've PCTd with clomid, and even though it's not recommended, last time I used Mtest, anabolic effect and sustain alpha, and i felt better than clomid, maintained 90% of strength and size gains, and after 8 weeks my bloodwork was all good. The only thing to watch for is lipids and liver enzymes. I know everyone says they arent methylated s they are easy on the liver, but both runs I had elevated enzymes (nothing crazy high but a little out of range). I dont drink or anything that should affect my liver and normally my enzymes are perfect.
I too felt better pct with sustain alpha and m test than tamoxifen in my case...
 
thebigt

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Thanks for the feedback boys 👊🏻

what would you guys say the differences between androsterone and 11-keto are?

And if I was to run androsterone with epiandro how should I dose them and what should I do for PCT?
I can get my hands on clomid / nova so that part should be fine
after I finish my 2 bottles of icon one[1-andro+dermacrine]I will be running 1 bottle of alpha seven[200mg androsterone] plus 3 caps of alpha stano[epiandro] daily.
 
Ricky10

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what androsterone product have you used? if it is a oral I would bet that it was underdosed since androsterone is way more expensive than epiandro…

i know you bought 2 bottles of ALPHA SEVEN...at 200mg per dose in transdermal delivery i think it will totally change your perspective about ANDROSTERONE.
A few:

R-Andro Shred, with liposomal delivery served me VERY well the first time I used it years ago. The product has seen some changes over the years, and that led me to choose other sources. I do still have some though....very few.

Nutra Innovations which features 50mg Androsterone with TetraSorb delivery (used to) was my next choice, and I ordered 4-5 bottles. I tended to run 4-5 caps per day, and the quality was definitely evident for me. I have had excellent experiences with many TertaSorb products.

In terms of Epiandro, I have mostly used Androvar. The quality always seemed to be there, and I had always liked the versatility of the 100mg capsules- especially since the half life is so short.

I actually just got my Alpha-7 today! I almost slapped some on myself after getting home from work. I chose not to because I have like 2-3 acne cysts on my forehead from working in some Androvar (Mostly PWO) lately. They are pretty bad, so I want to get these under a bit more control...at least for tonight...haha.

I am one of those people that works in a few runs of Epiandro and/or Androsterone per year. It’s tough to beat that feeling you get when using such products preworkout! I bought the Alpha-7 to take advantage of the sweet deal, though I am not necessarily sure if I will be utilizing it at this time for a committed run. Maybe I will decide tomorrow. If I try it and love it, the decision will be made rather easily 😁
 
thebigt

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A few:

R-Andro Shred, with liposomal delivery served me VERY well the first time I used it years ago. The product has seen some changes over the years, and that led me to choose other sources. I do still have some though....very few.

Nutra Innovations which features 50mg Androsterone with TetraSorb delivery (used to) was my next choice, and I ordered 4-5 bottles. I tended to run 4-5 caps per day, and the quality was definitely evident for me. I have had excellent experiences with many TertaSorb products.

In terms of Epiandro, I have mostly used Androvar. The quality always seemed to be there, and I had always liked the versatility of the 100mg capsules- especially since the half life is so short.

I actually just got my Alpha-7 today! I almost slapped some on myself after getting home from work. I chose not to because I have like 2-3 acne cysts on my forehead from working in some Androvar (Mostly PWO) lately. They are pretty bad, so I want to get these under a bit more control...at least for tonight...haha.

I am one of those people that works in a few runs of Epiandro and/or Androsterone per year. It’s tough to beat that feeling you get when using such products preworkout! I bought the Alpha-7 to take advantage of the sweet deal, though I am not necessarily sure if I will be utilizing it at this time for a committed run. Maybe I will decide tomorrow. If I try it and love it, the decision will be made rather easily 😁
very much looking forward to your feedback...the alpha gainz transdermal androsterone at 2ml [200mg] was fantastic, although pricey since a bottle only lasted 15 days.
 
Ptlhains

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If you can be patient evomuse is getting ready to drop myosynergy. Blr is also dropping the newest anabolic soon. Someone said evomuse andro lotion is great stuff but I don't think anyone has really confirmed what is in it.
Androlotion is dhea
 
u_e_s_i

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after I finish my 2 bottles of icon one[1-andro+dermacrine]I will be running 1 bottle of alpha seven[200mg androsterone] plus 3 caps of alpha stano[epiandro] daily.
nice, I’m thinking of going for that too. What’s your plan for your PCT?
 
u_e_s_i

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Also has anyone tried sublingual androsterone? I just saw an ad for some and I seem to remember hearing someone say that sublinguals and topicals only pass through the liver once whereas orals do two passes and are therefore harsher
 
Jinsun

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Why are you all so crazy about epiandro? That's just pure DHT ... which sucks as a nutrient partitioner and has the most androgen sides possible, due to it not beeing a modified molecule. It will suppress and it can't do much. Sure I see it's value as an add-on to the cycle, the same as adding mast or proviron, but beyond that, everything should literally be better than epiandro. No? Am I missing something?
 

hyperCat

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Why are you all so crazy about epiandro? That's just pure DHT ... which sucks as a nutrient partitioner and has the most androgen sides possible, due to it not beeing a modified molecule. It will suppress and it can't do much. Sure I see it's value as an add-on to the cycle, the same as adding mast or proviron, but beyond that, everything should literally be better than epiandro. No? Am I missing something?
All I can go by is my experience. For me, it gave me drive in the gym that I haven’t felt in years. Strength was up significantly, and overall my sene of well-being was very high.

I just felt really good on it working out. Simple as that. You may not get these benefits from it, but I sure did. I’m almost 50, so perhaps my age plays a part in this.

Hard to argue with results tho...
 
booneman77

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Why are you all so crazy about epiandro? That's just pure DHT ... which sucks as a nutrient partitioner and has the most androgen sides possible, due to it not beeing a modified molecule. It will suppress and it can't do much. Sure I see it's value as an add-on to the cycle, the same as adding mast or proviron, but beyond that, everything should literally be better than epiandro. No? Am I missing something?
With these kind of things it's not uncommon to see a dramatic difference of "on paper it should" vs "i actually experienced"... hormones rarely work exactly as we expect them to (especially since each person will have some level of personal reaction anyways simply due to their unique hormonal profile, experience, receptors, etc etc).

As with the rest, personal experience for me says the opposite of most of what you've speculated... obviously there are "better" things at any epiA's benefits, but for a sides:benefit ratio it's very hard to beat as the things that are "stronger" are also significantly harsher on lipids, suppression, etc. One of the biggest things is that it's NOT typically very suppressive which makes for a much smoother pct and better "permanence" to any gains/fat loss due to the very minor hormonal swing when coming off.
 
Jinsun

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With these kind of things it's not uncommon to see a dramatic difference of "on paper it should" vs "i actually experienced"... hormones rarely work exactly as we expect them to (especially since each person will have some level of personal reaction anyways simply due to their unique hormonal profile, experience, receptors, etc etc).

As with the rest, personal experience for me says the opposite of most of what you've speculated... obviously there are "better" things at any epiA's benefits, but for a sides:benefit ratio it's very hard to beat as the things that are "stronger" are also significantly harsher on lipids, suppression, etc. One of the biggest things is that it's NOT typically very suppressive which makes for a much smoother pct and better "permanence" to any gains/fat loss due to the very minor hormonal swing when coming off.
I get what you're saying. I think this is mostly useful for people who want to do really light cycles. And this is where it belongs; in the supp's market, not for the aas crowd. And I guess this are the people who are going to consider it in the first place. I mean, I've got tbol and dbol here in my drawer and doing a 20mg tbol, 10mg dbol, 6 week cycle for the last part of my spring cut, is the minimum I can do. Using something like 11kt, or whats it called, combined with something like epiandro just doesn't make sense really. At least not the epiandro part. If I'm going to get suppressed, then at least I'm going to use something that will have a proper effect.

DHT doesn't build muscle by it self and it isnt much of a partitioner. You get strenght and other androgenic sides (aggression, boners, good vibes, increased metabolism, ...) but not much in the way of anabolism. You also get suppressed, albeit not that much. I presume it's similar to doing an only proviron cycle? Sure it dries you out, but that's just a cosmetic effect that is going away when you stop using it.
 
thebigt

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Why are you all so crazy about epiandro? That's just pure DHT ... which sucks as a nutrient partitioner and has the most androgen sides possible, due to it not beeing a modified molecule. It will suppress and it can't do much. Sure I see it's value as an add-on to the cycle, the same as adding mast or proviron, but beyond that, everything should literally be better than epiandro. No? Am I missing something?
short answer-YES

you are missing something!!!
 
thebigt

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nice, I’m thinking of going for that too. What’s your plan for your PCT?
m-test/sustain alpha/Invictus/arimahex.

I am on trt[100mg weekly], even though I don't actually require a true pct after a cycle I feel a little off, running a nice otc pct keeps me right.
 
thebigt

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Also has anyone tried sublingual androsterone? I just saw an ad for some and I seem to remember hearing someone say that sublinguals and topicals only pass through the liver once whereas orals do two passes and are therefore harsher
willing to bet that the sublingual androsterone is underdosed, that is why I am such a fan of iconics alpha seven[200mg androsterone per dose in transdermal delivery]….although many years ago I was a fan of lg science t-911, it had androsterone in it and gave a nice pre-workout boost, and was sublingual..
 
thebigt

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I get what you're saying. I think this is mostly useful for people who want to do really light cycles. And this is where it belongs; in the supp's market, not for the aas crowd. And I guess this are the people who are going to consider it in the first place. I mean, I've got tbol and dbol here in my drawer and doing a 20mg tbol, 10mg dbol, 6 week cycle for the last part of my spring cut, is the minimum I can do. Using something like 11kt, or whats it called, combined with something like epiandro just doesn't make sense really. At least not the epiandro part. If I'm going to get suppressed, then at least I'm going to use something that will have a proper effect.

DHT doesn't build muscle by it self and it isnt much of a partitioner. You get strenght and other androgenic sides (aggression, boners, good vibes, increased metabolism, ...) but not much in the way of anabolism. You also get suppressed, albeit not that much. I presume it's similar to doing an only proviron cycle? Sure it dries you out, but that's just a cosmetic effect that is going away when you stop using it.
dude don't underestimate the power of a good strong BONER. I am 61 years old and when I run epi/androstane I get BONERS as good or better than in my 20's. random BONERS throughout the day for someone 61 years old is the best alpha male feeling in the world.
 
Renew1

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Pics, or it didnt happen
You are mistaken on this brother (not the pics LOL).

This is a great compound for light or heavy cycles. I've used some of the strongest compounds ever produced, and still find great value in this one.

It won't put on a ton of mass. So if that's a requirement for you to take a compound, don't take this one.

But it does do other things, and it does them WELL. ..... Better than the mass monsters do.

I won't post all of the great things that it has done for me because I've posted them all over the board, over and over.

A Lot of us who use it, Love it. And a good chunk of us aren't newbs by any stretch of the imagination.

:)
 
thebigt

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You are mistaken on this brother (not the pics LOL).

This is a great compound for light or heavy cycles. I've used some of the strongest compounds ever produced, and still find great value in this one.

It won't put on a ton of mass. So if that's a requirement for you to take a compound, don't take this one.

But it does do other things, and it does them WELL. ..... Better than the mass monsters do.

I won't post all of the great things that it has done for me because I've posted them all over the board, over and over.

A Lot of us who use it, Love it. And a good chunk of us aren't newbs by any stretch of the imagination.

:)
lol...i'm a newb!!!
 
Jinsun

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You are mistaken on this brother (not the pics LOL).

This is a great compound for light or heavy cycles. I've used some of the strongest compounds ever produced, and still find great value in this one.

It won't put on a ton of mass. So if that's a requirement for you to take a compound, don't take this one.

But it does do other things, and it does them WELL. ..... Better than the mass monsters do.

I won't post all of the great things that it has done for me because I've posted them all over the board, over and over.

A Lot of us who use it, Love it. And a good chunk of us aren't newbs by any stretch of the imagination.

:)
Hm okey, I believe u. But it's just dht's androgenic benefits right? Or do some other metabolites do something else? Sory for my ignorance. I am not trying to disprove anybody, just trying to get to the bottom of this.
 
thebigt

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Hm okey, I believe u. But it's just dht's androgenic benefits right? Or do some other metabolites do something else? Sory for my ignorance. I am not trying to disprove anybody, just trying to get to the bottom of this.
the common thread mass builders have in common is conversion to estrogen, right?

epi/androstane don't have conversion to estrogen, thus you aren't going to get the mass gains.

but you get most of the other benefits, without worrying about estrogen sides!!!
 
Renew1

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Hm okey, I believe u. But it's just dht's androgenic benefits right? Or do some other metabolites do something else? Sory for my ignorance. I am not trying to disprove anybody, just trying to get to the bottom of this.
Brother, I totally understand. I was kind of skeptical about using it myself a while back. I had used it a LITTLE in the past, and sometimes in a stack.

A few guys kept raving about it, so I gave it a go. It checked off a lot of boxes in effects I was currently looking for (very well).

Like thebigt said, a big part of the lack of mass building probably has to do with the lack of Estrogen.
And we know that each Steroid has it's own unique effects.
And we know that straight DHTs tend to lean less in the direction of mass building (in general).
 
Ricky10

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Yeah, so I did just dose ~ 3 pumps of Alpha-7 about 30 minutes ago. Within 10 minutes, I noticed a greater sense of calm. Obviously this is sustained release, so anything more notable will likely take some time, and I may dose more later. I will be working out today as well...

Apparently the 200mg Androsterone, 50mg 7-KT is per 6 pumps. Other things worth mentioning right now is that the gel is creamy white, seems odorless, and has yet to show signs of any immediate skin irritation. :)
 
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thebigt

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Yeah, so I did just dose ~ 3 pumps of Alpha-7 about 30 minutes ago. Within 10 minutes, I noticed a greater sense of calm. Obviously this is sustained release, so anything more notable will likely take some time, and I may dose more later. I will be working out today as well...

Apparently the 200mg Andosterone, 50mg 7-KT is per 6 pumps. Other things worth mentioning right now is that the gel is clear, seems odorless, and has yet to show signs of any immediate skin irritation. :)
I have noticed that all the WHITE lotion products @delsolrob is coming out with are milder on skin!!!
 
Ricky10

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Hm okey, I believe u. But it's just dht's androgenic benefits right? Or do some other metabolites do something else? Sory for my ignorance. I am not trying to disprove anybody, just trying to get to the bottom of this.
This is the best write-up I have found, and will likely give an answer to some of your questions. It so happens to be written by someone we are all quite familiar with.. @Mike Arnold

 
thebigt

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Jinsun

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This is the best write-up I have found, and will likely give an answer to some of your questions. It so happens to be written by someone we are all quite familiar with.. @Mike Arnold

While this is a totally marketed article I get the gist. It's an especially feel good compound and that's what you take it for. So I would take this to the beach or something, to get those pheromones going : D

I wonder how much for how long, for somebody that is not on trt, in order to not get totally shutdown.

I am however afraid of compounds that have a profound effect on glutamate/gaba. You might be especially fine when you are on them, but what happens when you get off? You are in pct so that's a pain, plus your anxiety will be through the roof b/c your glutamate is firing extra hard. TRT is a different story altogether, so I see how this might be a fun substance that you can just randomly take when you want to feel good, but for me, nop, definetly can't just pop these like a zannie ...
 
booneman77

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While this is a totally marketed article I get the gist. It's an especially feel good compound and that's what you take it for. So I would take this to the beach or something, to get those pheromones going : D

I wonder how much for how long, for somebody that is not on trt, in order to not get totally shutdown.

I am however afraid of compounds that have a profound effect on glutamate/gaba. You might be especially fine when you are on them, but what happens when you get off? You are in pct so that's a pain, plus your anxiety will be through the roof b/c your glutamate is firing extra hard. TRT is a different story altogether, so I see how this might be a fun substance that you can just randomly take when you want to feel good, but for me, nop, definetly can't just pop these like a zannie ...
if anyone is taking this as an "as-needed" or acute substitute for something like xanax they are an idiot
 
Jinsun

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if anyone is taking this as an "as-needed" or acute substitute for something like xanax they are an idiot
While I wasn't actually saying that, if this actually has such a profound effect on gaba, then it might be a safer alternative to benzos for people that are on trt. Benzos are absolutely the worst thing. It's withdrawal is worse the opioids.

In any case, I wasn't implying that anybody does that. I was offcourse referring to prolonged use; a cycle. I surmised that androsterone is taken for it's androgenic effects and not it's anabolic properties. And Mike Arnoled surmised the same thing I did; this has place for people that don't delve into clasic aas cycles. While if it's benefits are really that good, it can be used on proper cycles. But MA still surmises that it's effects can be replicated with normal aas. I can't comment on that, as I have not used it yet. Can you achieve a similar outcome with dbol, npp, etc ...? I don't know.
 
booneman77

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While I wasn't actually saying that, if this actually has such a profound effect on gaba, then it might be a safer alternative to benzos for people that are on trt. Benzos are absolutely the worst thing. It's withdrawal is worse the opioids.

In any case, I wasn't implying that anybody does that. I was offcourse referring to prolonged use; a cycle. I surmised that androsterone is taken for it's androgenic effects and not it's anabolic properties. And Mike Arnoled surmised the same thing I did; this has place for people that don't delve into clasic aas cycles. While if it's benefits are really that good, it can be used on proper cycles. But MA still surmises that it's effects can be replicated with normal aas. I can't comment on that, as I have not used it yet. Can you achieve a similar outcome with dbol, npp, etc ...? I don't know.
Im still a bit confused as to why you're entering your opinion on this compound having never used it or even fully researched it when the rest of us, who have, are telling you what we have actually experienced, not assumed based on basic generalizations.

If you don't like it, that's fine, but the topic of the thread is based around this compound and similar ones (which you haven't suggested any)
 
Jinsun

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Im still a bit confused as to why you're entering your opinion on this compound having never used it or even fully researched it when the rest of us, who have, are telling you what we have actually experienced, not assumed based on basic generalizations.

If you don't like it, that's fine, but the topic of the thread is based around this compound and similar ones (which you haven't suggested any)
That's a good question ... I broke up with my gf 3 days ago and I guess I'm doing chit to preoccupy my mind. Having a difficult time thinking if I did the right decision.

Anyway, as to the discussion at hand. I wanted to get a grasp at the compound, as I want to run something atm, that's not completely suppressive, to help me finish up my cut. I have tbol and dbol in the drawer but am considering other, lighter options. Also, been hearing a lot about androsterone, so I'm just researching and doing conclusions, that's all. I'm more or less done now I think : D
 
Renew1

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That's a good question ... I broke up with my gf 3 days ago and I guess I'm doing chit to preoccupy my mind. Having a difficult time thinking if I did the right decision.

Anyway, as to the discussion at hand. I wanted to get a grasp at the compound, as I want to run something atm, that's not completely suppressive, to help me finish up my cut. I have tbol and dbol in the drawer but am considering other, lighter options. Also, been hearing a lot about androsterone, so I'm just researching and doing conclusions, that's all. I'm more or less done now I think : D
Just beware (given the circumstances) that Epiandro is highly Androgenic, and could (potentially) make you more emotional.

I'm sorry you're having a difficult time brother... I've definitely been there.
 
booneman77

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That's a good question ... I broke up with my gf 3 days ago and I guess I'm doing chit to preoccupy my mind. Having a difficult time thinking if I did the right decision.

Anyway, as to the discussion at hand. I wanted to get a grasp at the compound, as I want to run something atm, that's not completely suppressive, to help me finish up my cut. I have tbol and dbol in the drawer but am considering other, lighter options. Also, been hearing a lot about androsterone, so I'm just researching and doing conclusions, that's all. I'm more or less done now I think : D
easy solution:
1) get back together
2) remember why you hated it
3) break up again
4) repeat until it sinks in

haha... i've done the same more times than i care to count... you always look back and only see the good things not all the little miseries that make you want out in the first place... right now is even harder because all the other "fish in the sea" are more like "fish in the other tank you can't get into".... crap time to be on the fence since the grass is shiit brown on both sides currently
 
thebigt

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easy solution:
1) get back together
2) remember why you hated it
3) break up again
4) repeat until it sinks in

haha... i've done the same more times than i care to count... you always look back and only see the good things not all the little miseries that make you want out in the first place... right now is even harder because all the other "fish in the sea" are more like "fish in the other tank you can't get into".... crap time to be on the fence since the grass is shiit brown on both sides currently
fess up---you just like the make up sex, break up-make up-break up- make up, lol.
 
thebigt

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Well if it’s anything like the first time I used Androsterone, @Jinsun would be happy he’s not in a committed relationship
that depends, lol....you remember the old rick James song-SUPER FREAK?

the kind you don't bring home to mother......
 
Jinsun

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Well if it’s anything like the first time I used Androsterone, @Jinsun would be happy he’s not in a committed relationship
Oh yeah, I distinctly remember saying to my self on my last cycle, when I was single; don't do this again if you are single or don't have enough f*ck friends on the call sheet. You just end up being addicted to porn lol
 

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