Is running Nolva WITH Torem overkill?

supersize77

supersize77

Member
My research reveals that that while torem may bring your balls back quicker nolva is superior for gyno prevention. So I got to thinking, since I have access to both, would there be any benefit (or detriment) to running PCT with both simultaneously for their respective benefits? Something along the lines of:

Nolva-40/20/20/10; Torem-90/60/30/30

Any thoughts?
 
I ran both only because i had some gyno from the cycle and i didnt think the Torm was doing anything for it. Are you prone to gyno? What compound are you running. Cant hurt to have both on hand. More stress for the liver though if your running both.
 
Australian made said:
I ran both only because i had some gyno from the cycle and i didnt think the Torm was doing anything for it. Are you prone to gyno? What compound are you running. Cant hurt to have both on hand. More stress for the liver though if your running both.
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Bingo! similar situation brother. I stacked trenadrol with epi and developed gyno....dropped the trenadrol and used letro .25-1.25-.25 with good results. So now, as I come to end of the epi cycle, I was thinking along the same lines as you; torm for the quick recovery and nolva to prevent my gyno from flaring back up. It seems, at least in theory, this would be a good combination for those with gyno issues.
 
Well i dont really no the answer. Maybe just go with teh Torm and if you feel any signs of gyno run low dose letro eod if its already worked in the passed.
 
Australian made said:
Well i dont really no the answer. Maybe just go with teh Torm and if you feel any signs of gyno run low dose letro eod if its already worked in the passed.[/QUOTE

Well I ran letro while still on cycle and now I'm coming off both. For PCT I've heard letro is not the way to go so I think torm in conjunction with the nolva. Anyone else think this is good or bad idea?
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supersize77 said:
Well I ran letro while still on cycle and now I'm coming off both. For PCT I've heard letro is not the way to go so I think torm in conjunction with the nolva. Anyone else think this is good or bad idea?
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From your first post, there is no benefit for running tamoxifen THAT high unless you consider double sight or vision trouble possibilities a benefit.. Seriously if you are going to run tamoxifen just run it 20/20/20/10 or 20/20/10/10

Remember, SERM ramp down, AI ramp up then down (pyramiding).

like this, 4 weeks SERM PCD with 5-6 weeks of AI ramp up/down

Week1/2/3/4/5/6
TAMOXIFEN-20/20/20/10/0/0
LETROZOLE-.5mgED/1.5mgED/2.5mgED/1.5mgED/.5mgED/.5mgED

With AIs, it does not follow the approach more is better. Less is better, as letro has almost a 100% oral bio-availability, and at 2.5mg/ED can reduce estrogen levels by up to 98%.
 
ecu19 said:
From your first post, there is no benefit for running tamoxifen THAT high unless you consider double sight or vision trouble possibilities a benefit.. Seriously if you are going to run tamoxifen just run it 20/20/20/10 or 20/20/10/10

Remember, SERM ramp down, AI ramp up then down (pyramiding).

like this, 4 weeks SERM PCD with 5-6 weeks of AI ramp up/down

Week1/2/3/4/5/6
TAMOXIFEN-20/20/20/10/0/0
LETROZOLE-.5mgED/1.5mgED/2.5mgED/1.5mgED/.5mgED/.5mgED

With AIs, it does not follow the approach more is better. Less is better, as letro has almost a 100% oral bio-availability, and at 2.5mg/ED can reduce estrogen levels by up to 98%.
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Yeah I'm definitely tapering off the letro; the stuff crushed my libido at 1.25 (which I never exceeded) but dryed up my gyno lke crazy.

As far as the nolva dosage for PCT (which I'm headed into) I'm pretty sure 40/40/20/20 is standard dosage but if used in conjunction with torm @ 90/60/60/30, may indeed be excessive.
 
supersize77 said:
Yeah I'm definitely tapering off the letro; the stuff crushed my libido at 1.25 (which I never exceeded) but dryed up my gyno lke crazy.

As far as the nolva dosage for PCT (which I'm headed into) I'm pretty sure 40/40/20/20 is standard dosage but if used in conjunction with torm @ 90/60/60/30, may indeed be excessive.
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using both SERMs is overkill. Even that dosing of nolva is excessive, but if you're dead set on taking it, be aware that at higher doses there have been reports (even with people on this forum) of vision problems/blurry eyesight/double sight/halo effects. Just want to warn you, and let you know that just because it's a "standard" dose around these parts doesn't mean it's a safe and effective dose...

And yeah having too little estrogen can and WILL crush your libido. You don't want to eradicate estrogen, just control it.
 
ecu19 said:
using both SERMs is overkill. Even that dosing of nolva is excessive, but if you're dead set on taking it, be aware that at higher doses there have been reports (even with people on this forum) of vision problems/blurry eyesight/double sight/halo effects. Just want to warn you, and let you know that just because it's a "standard" dose around these parts doesn't mean it's a safe and effective dose...

And yeah having too little estrogen can and WILL crush your libido. You don't want to eradicate estrogen, just control it.
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Much appreciated...I'm completely open minded to input so I may well keep the nolva at 20 mg tops. Like I said earlier, the only reason I'm even considering adding nolva to the torm is to keep the gyno I developed this cycle at bay, which it does better than torm but still using torm to bring my balls back quick (which it torm does better than nolva).
 
In all honesty I had better results using clomid/ nolva stck then I did with torm. I know its the "new" craze but for some reason after my 16 week test cycle I crashed hard... I ran a test Dbol eq cycle prior and recovered much quicker on the old school method

Any one else had that kind of experience?
 
Would you guys mind taking a look at this thread i posted?

Invalid Link Removed

seems my plan may not be the best one given what you're saying...

what i have may have been there and may have been pubertal, i'm not sure. But there is no pain. Its so much a lump but a small strip on the outside of the nipple.

thanks
 
ecu19 said:
preventing it, it is not used medicinally to reduce gyno.
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Others may disagree with this and I've seen pub med studies posted on this board which indicate nolva can be used to treat (not just prevent gyno). However, I can say with certainty that letro is head a shoulders better than nolva in treating MY gyno...no question.
 
they are both too similar in action. but, what are you runing it for?

anything that interacts with the 5a reductase i wouldnt use nolva for.
 
crazyfool405 said:
they are both too similar in action. but, what are you runing it for?

anything that interacts with the 5a reductase i wouldnt use nolva for.
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I'm running them for PCT for their respective benifits:
1) nolva for superior gyno prevention which I need to prevent a flareup of my recently developed gyno and
2) torm which is arguably superior in regards to natural test restoration.

The best of both worlds? I'm not sure yet but it seems reasonable to run a lower dose of both simultaneously for my particular (gyno) situation.
 
supersize77 said:
I'm running them for PCT for their respective benifits:
1) nolva for superior gyno prevention which I need to prevent a flareup of my recently developed gyno and
2) torm which is arguably superior in regards to natural test restoration.

The best of both worlds? I'm not sure yet but it seems reasonable to run a lower dose of both simultaneously for my particular (gyno) situation.
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you dont need a SERM to combat gyno, you can combat it with an AI,

use clomid to restore your HPTA and ADEX to help prevent gyno, and lower excess estro, and help increase LH and FSH
 
crazyfool405 said:
you dont need a SERM to combat gyno, you can combat it with an AI,

use clomid to restore your HPTA and ADEX to help prevent gyno, and lower excess estro, and help increase LH and FSH
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Thanks for the input. The three compounds I have to work with are nolva/torm for pct and letro which I've (successfully) used to treat my gyno while on.

I know you dont need a serm to treat gyno but I'm headed into pct and there is no way I want to run letro (which I'm tapering off now) off cycle. I've started to run the nolva a10 mgs per day to prevent any rebound when I completely stop the letro in a few days.

I was planning on bumping the nolva up to 20mg for the duration of pct for gyno protection and possibly a lower dose of torm. In the past I've steered clear of clomid b/c I've heard it screws with your emotions much more harshly than nolva and isn't necessarily as effective. On the other hand I've heard torm can screw up your emotions as bad as clomid but allows for a much quicker recovery.
 
I talked to my doctor about gyno that I have had since my teenage years and he asked "do they hurt?" SERMs are only used for pain/sensitivity, not to reduce gyno. Mildly estrogenic chemicals that compete for the receptor will not reduce gyno. an AI he said would be loads better, that or surgery.
 
supersize77 said:
Thanks for the input. The three compounds I have to work with are nolva/torm for pct and letro which I've (successfully) used to treat my gyno while on.

I know you dont need a serm to treat gyno but I'm headed into pct and there is no way I want to run letro (which I'm tapering off now) off cycle. I've started to run the nolva a10 mgs per day to prevent any rebound when I completely stop the letro in a few days.

I was planning on bumping the nolva up to 20mg for the duration of pct for gyno protection and possibly a lower dose of torm. In the past I've steered clear of clomid b/c I've heard it screws with your emotions much more harshly than nolva and isn't necessarily as effective. On the other hand I've heard torm can screw up your emotions as bad as clomid but allows for a much quicker recovery.
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serms are the reason for rebound, they leave excess estro in your body. when you come off it floods receptors.
 
crazyfool405 said:
serms are the reason for rebound, they leave excess estro in your body. when you come off it floods receptors.
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I've definitely heard conflicting info on this. I was under the impression that AIs, particularly letro, completely eliminate estro production resulting in a massive rebound when you come off. On the other hand, serms like nolva, don't completely eliminate estro (and thus do not cause an estro rebound) but merely block the receptors which may protect them against the inevitable AI induced estro rebound.

I don't disagree that coming off the serms may have its own set of challenges but I guess its a matter of picking the lessor of two evils and mitigating damages to the greatest extent possible. In other words I think I'd be much worse off not running nolva as I taper off this letro. I do plan to taper off the nolva so hopefully this will prevent any receptor "sensitivity". Also, ideally, my estro levels will have normalized by then.
 
crazyfool405 said:
serms are the reason for rebound, they leave excess estro in your body. when you come off it floods receptors.
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unless you follow a pyramid AI approach, as stated numerous times by dinoiii. Works like a charm, and avoids rebound. Sure pct is an extra 2-4 weeks, but it's worth it.
 
Hey bro, IMO you should probably just run a normal PCT using the Torem, and then once your finish, wait a few weeks then run a gyno cycle. I know this sucks, but thats just a better way of doing things. People run seperate gyno cycles all the time. PCT is for restoring your natural hormonal levels and trying to maintain your gains, not combating gyno you already have. Sure you may see some gyno reduction on PCT since you are running a serm, but I think its safer and less harsh on your body if you PCT, wait a few weeks, then run a gyno cycle. Also instead of tamox, if your just looking to treat gyno, you might want to try Ralox. Also more than likely you'll probably run a 4-6 week pct, but when treating gyno, your cycle could go for 3-6 months. If your worried about gyno rebound on pct with Torem, you can possible add a low dose of Letro EOD.

If you have a lump(painful or not), as much as letrozole sucks azz you might want to run it, ramp up to the 2.5mg daily until the lump goes away, then try a cutting cycle to rid yourself of the excess adipose tissue left behind.
 
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