Is Phosphatidic Acid better than Creatine?
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Driven2lift
Legend
Nope.
Amounts of data and studies on creatine to benefit everything from performance to muscle mass to some cognitive markers.
More benefits, more tested, better results IMO
Amounts of data and studies on creatine to benefit everything from performance to muscle mass to some cognitive markers.
More benefits, more tested, better results IMO
Nope, in your eyes what do you think is better. Not trying to trick at all...with all the people getting results, its a good question to ask. Both seem to be cheap supplements that work....but who's king of the hill :lol:
ma70
Well-known member
Unless you are a rare creatine non responder, I still think Creatine is best. Very proven, cheap ingredient. PA is only cheap if you use SL granules, but those are macros that some may not be able to fit into their diet.
roy_jones
Member
Those who say creatine will argue based on the amount of data through testing in a variety of conditions. That doesn't make it better, necessarily, but only more studied.
The problem with something new like Phosphatidic Acid is that even if it's effects are greater than creatine, it's mostly based on anecdotal feedback. I'll bet that once more studies are done in the coming years, PA will be shown to be more effective for bodybuilding than creatine.
Keeping in mind that I imagine over 90% of AM posters would have elevated DAA into the staple category prematurely based on anecdotal feedback. That's the danger.
The problem with something new like Phosphatidic Acid is that even if it's effects are greater than creatine, it's mostly based on anecdotal feedback. I'll bet that once more studies are done in the coming years, PA will be shown to be more effective for bodybuilding than creatine.
Keeping in mind that I imagine over 90% of AM posters would have elevated DAA into the staple category prematurely based on anecdotal feedback. That's the danger.
roy_jones
Member
That's also what makes it really exciting, especially given that it can be sourced cheaply like creatine.
I've been trying to remember the last time a substance showed similar promise and then fizzled. I mentioned DAA, but the principles behind it were dubious just by virtue of being in the test booster category. Even if it had worked as believed, it wouldn't have had value for the majority of natural bodybuilders. The science behind PA seems more solid to me.
I'm not sure if we're going to see a lot of investment into PA research if it's available from such a common cheap ingredient. I don't know how that works.
Jiigzz
Legend
But could it be that PA hasnt yet been tested for all its benefits?
Edit: beaten to the comment haha.
Driven2lift
Legend
Yes to all of the above
But to give an answer right now, creatine gets it
Especially anecdotally for me
But to give an answer right now, creatine gets it
Especially anecdotally for me
Driven2lift
Legend
If I were saying "what ifs"
Maybe *insert any untested extract here* is the best
Maybe *insert any untested extract here* is the best
NewAgeMayan
Well-known member
Studies schmudies 
I choose PA, simply because Ive very clearly noticed benefits through supplementing with it. Comparitively Ive noticed absoutely nothing with creatine.
I choose PA, simply because Ive very clearly noticed benefits through supplementing with it. Comparitively Ive noticed absoutely nothing with creatine.
NewAgeMayan
Well-known member
Also, I feel it might be helpful to give my own judgment proper context. In saying that PA is better than creatine (for me) Im really saying "soy lecithin granules (which contain PA) are better than creatine".
Im not sure such a comparison is actually 'fair', considering all the other beneficial phospholipids soyl contains...plus the thread is PA vs creatine, not soyl vs creatine, so...
Im not sure such a comparison is actually 'fair', considering all the other beneficial phospholipids soyl contains...plus the thread is PA vs creatine, not soyl vs creatine, so...
Jiigzz
Legend
Is caffeine a better stimulant than yohimbine or DMAA or AMP just because more studies support it?
Open to interpretation.
In any case, PA gets mine for now because its new and shiny and I likes the new
Jiigzz
Legend
machinehead
Well-known member
PA for me because creatine does nothing and I train primarily for strength.
Driven2lift
Legend
No lol but it needs some amount
All you mentioned above could be rated by personal experience without fail, they are stimulants and not as complex as PA in terms of monitoring the effects
Next time I will go for the "PA blows chunks" answer and site its just my opinion lol
But my experience isn't my opinion; its my way of being fair even though I got nothing from it over 4 months, I acknowledge that many others do and studies support it. But on these same grounds Creatine stands higher
(next topic of the week)
Do it lol
Jiigzz
Legend
Context and weighting play a role as well.
Reviews of creatine and performance show it has a very wide range of effectiveness, one review of 22 studies shows increases from 3% (piddly) to 43% (much awesome) which is massive variability with many sitting in the lower end of the spectrum.
Is it a useful tool? Undoubtedly. Is it the best natural perfornance agent available; debatable.
I guess thsts why the thread exists, haha.
I just like playing devils advocate more than anything
Driven2lift
Legend
I hear you,
we need a bit of devil around to keep up intelligent discussion
I still have PA products kicking around here gathering dust
Trading from Canada is a pain
we need a bit of devil around to keep up intelligent discussion
I still have PA products kicking around here gathering dust
Trading from Canada is a pain
NoAddedHmones
Well-known member
Creatine greater than PA in my books. Solely because PA makes me hungry, very hungry. That is counter productive to my goals.
roy_jones
Member
It's funny you say this because I mentioned just yesterday in the PA thread that I don't know whether I will be able to stay on PA during my upcoming cut because of the increased appetite.
Driven2Lift, I'll keep an eye out for your posts on the trade thread as I'm also Canadian.
Driven2lift
Legend
kboxer7
Well-known member
PA, simply because I've never felt or had any measurable benefits while on Creatine vs being off. I still take it here and there for periods of time because it's cheap and well studied but I could live without it.
PA on the other hand (from SL dosed fairly high) I get both visual (pump) and measurable results in size and endurance.
PA on the other hand (from SL dosed fairly high) I get both visual (pump) and measurable results in size and endurance.
TheIronAsylum
Active member
trick question both at the same time
fightnews
Well-known member
pa is certainly not cheap supp companies are raping people for it
Raping is by force. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything...and most granules are below $10
toddmuelheim
Well-known member
Fightnews you old so and so where the hell have you been
EMPIREMIND
Well-known member
I really dont think this is even a fair one. Way too much experience, research, studies and applications for creatine. PA is still new on the supplement scene in relation to creatine. For the simple fact of time proven effectiveness, I go with creatine, but seriously dont think someone can answer this effectively not knowing all the same details.
NewAgeMayan
Well-known member
Just saw your trade thread...if you were running OG King Im not surprised you noticed nothing from it, I had to double dose in order to see any appreciable benefits/effects.
Ive got some PhosphaMuscle on its way, if I find I notice the same benefits with it at its standard dose, well, I know what I will tentatively be concluding about OG King.
Driven2lift
Legend
Ran double dose of 2 different ones, PA content was higher than is needed
NewAgeMayan
Well-known member
Ah okay, I wouldve been surpirised if you hadnt at least trialed ddosing.
Driven2lift
Legend
I had 4 bottles lol I figured I might as well
Lynks8
Well-known member
This is an interesting one for me. I recently quit taking creatine and began taking PA.
Why stop taking creatine, you might ask? I know it's highly unlikely, and the methodology of the one study that showed this was dubious, but creatine might increase DHT levels, and I'm beginning to bald, so I decided to see if I notice decreased shedding/hair-loss by taking a break from creatine for a couple months.
It's only been 3 weeks, so I'm probably still saturated, but I have noticed a slight decline in strength, e.g. 1 less rep on heavy lifts (placebo?).
However, I have greater muscle fullness than I've ever had, and endurance hasn't gone down. I would attribute the former (and possibly the latter) to the PA.
We'll see what happens after another 3-4 weeks, but so far, I'm ok with the tradeoff!
Why stop taking creatine, you might ask? I know it's highly unlikely, and the methodology of the one study that showed this was dubious, but creatine might increase DHT levels, and I'm beginning to bald, so I decided to see if I notice decreased shedding/hair-loss by taking a break from creatine for a couple months.
It's only been 3 weeks, so I'm probably still saturated, but I have noticed a slight decline in strength, e.g. 1 less rep on heavy lifts (placebo?).
However, I have greater muscle fullness than I've ever had, and endurance hasn't gone down. I would attribute the former (and possibly the latter) to the PA.
We'll see what happens after another 3-4 weeks, but so far, I'm ok with the tradeoff!
NewAgeMayan
Well-known member
yip, some of the rep/bro culture there has just about ruined that board for me, lets hope it dosnt contaminate AM
kboxer7
Well-known member
For whatever it's worth I've been off of Creatine for about 3 or 4 weeks now myself and have been on PA for about the same amount of time.
Not by choice, I kinda just forgot to order more Creatine on my last supp order (whoops)...
I have not lost strength but have rather hit many PRs. Endurance has increased as well as muscle fullness.
Never really noticed much from Creatine anyway. Been taking it for years primarily because it is cheap and well studied.
DoubleM101
Member
I never noticed much from Creatine, to not say nothing.. However last time i tried a different brand and i got some nice gains. I notice some mild strengh gains and a mild weight increase.
I´m still taking it, however about 3 weeks ago, i started PA (NOW lecithin granules) and i really notice a great strength increase. I´m hitting PR´s and got a nice energy to workout. Not really energy, it´s hard to explain. It´s more like a well being state, like my nervous system was working like it should work during the workouts. I suffer off anxiety and i notice a lot of times i had no "energy" neither strength during the workouts. Sorry but i can´t explain better and english isn´t my main language.
About the pump, even today a girl told me i was bigger in the upper area and she was noticing that during the last 2/3 weeks (exactly when i started taking the granules). She even ask me if i was juicing lol.. It´s always good to ear, particularly from a girl.
I´m still taking it, however about 3 weeks ago, i started PA (NOW lecithin granules) and i really notice a great strength increase. I´m hitting PR´s and got a nice energy to workout. Not really energy, it´s hard to explain. It´s more like a well being state, like my nervous system was working like it should work during the workouts. I suffer off anxiety and i notice a lot of times i had no "energy" neither strength during the workouts. Sorry but i can´t explain better and english isn´t my main language.
About the pump, even today a girl told me i was bigger in the upper area and she was noticing that during the last 2/3 weeks (exactly when i started taking the granules). She even ask me if i was juicing lol.. It´s always good to ear, particularly from a girl.
Demongreat88
New member
Thank you guys for posting about PA. Bought some Fearns SL on Saturday. I am taking 2 tablespoons a day. I did my first chest/back day yesterday. I felt a good pump. Strength was good. Today was my first leg day and I felt a difference. My mind-muscle connection was noticeably different. I am 47 and have been working out since I was 15 and I felt a unique feeling with regard to my muscles while doing the Bodymaster lying leg press. So there is a noticeable effect? It is early, but thearly results are promising.
As for creatine, I love the stuff. I remember when it first came out. I bought some monohydrate and gained 10 pounds of intramuscular water. I recovered faster and loved it. It was the first supplement that ever worked for me. I still use it. I use HCL. I bought a kilo for less than $30. I prefer it because it does not give me an upset stomach like monohydrate was prone to do.
My hope is that both supps work synergistically and I benefit from them both of them. I will update this in a month or so. Thanks again for sharing your expertise and experience from PA. Without you all and this forum I would have never even heard of it.
Doug
As for creatine, I love the stuff. I remember when it first came out. I bought some monohydrate and gained 10 pounds of intramuscular water. I recovered faster and loved it. It was the first supplement that ever worked for me. I still use it. I use HCL. I bought a kilo for less than $30. I prefer it because it does not give me an upset stomach like monohydrate was prone to do.
My hope is that both supps work synergistically and I benefit from them both of them. I will update this in a month or so. Thanks again for sharing your expertise and experience from PA. Without you all and this forum I would have never even heard of it.
Doug
kboxer7
Well-known member
If you can, up the dose to 4 tbsp. You won't be disappointed. There is a very noticeable difference in pump, muscle fullness and endurance at that dosage.
Regards,
Demongreat88
New member
Will do k boxer 7!
MidwestBeast
Legend
Still have only used creatine, but it wins for me (until proven otherwise).
abformulations
Legend
In terms of studies creatine wins hands down. There's no supp with more data backing it up.
Now in terms of feel and what you see daily I'll go with PA.
Now in terms of feel and what you see daily I'll go with PA.
hamdysayed
Well-known member
PA is the real deal top best natural supp, soy lecithin is what I have been using and it's great muscle fullness great pump , some strength , creatine is cheap n I take ot just to take ot but pa u notice it in couple of weeks.
blackjackcat
Member
I have only used the OG King and was not impressed, but now it sounds like I needed to double dose it to get the desired effects. I will have to pick up some SL and give it another go. I have a much better luck with creatine, so my vote right now is for creatine.