Is 40mg of Phera Plex too high?

UberPooper1

Member
I just straight into 30mg of PP 3 weeks ago. Gains are decent but slow. Haven't really had any side effects. Would it be too risky to bump up to 40mg? I took E...Max LMG in December and I think my body is decently used to the somewhat similar compound.
 
How much do you weigh? From what I have seen some up doses based on being over 200 lbs. I am at 30mg just for one week since I did 3wks at 20. I noticed my gains just started a few days ago.
 
I just finished 3 weeks on PP 20/30/30 and although I did notice increase in strength I didnt think I got the most out of it. I'm gonna give it another chance after summer but will prob run at higher dose maybe 30/40/40 and see how that goes. (i weigh 230) Hope this helps in some vague way.
 
UberPooper1 said:
I just straight into 30mg of PP 3 weeks ago. Gains are decent but slow. Haven't really had any side effects. Would it be too risky to bump up to 40mg? I took E...Max LMG in December and I think my body is decently used to the somewhat similar compound.
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It depends on how much you weigh. If you are over 200lbs and not seeing gains at 30mg, then try 40mg. However, if you are under 200, and aren't seeing any gains at 30mg, then your diet or training probably needs re-evaluation. I've read alot of guys over 200lbs that make gains with 20mg per week so just give it time and make sure your routines are straight.

Good luck, PP is a great compound.
 
PP is a great compound. I'm right in the middle of a cycle with it and have recorded my highest weight for flat bench, with 2 reps. on my 8th set mind you. I'm 240 lbs. and take 20mg/day of PP. I would never go over this, ever. Too much potential for liver problems (Methyl) and gyno with higher doses. Try eating more calories in the form of clean carbs. and more protein breaks throughout the day first.
 
RenegadeRows said:
It depends on how much you weigh. If you are over 200lbs and not seeing gains at 30mg, then try 40mg. However, if you are under 200, and aren't seeing any gains at 30mg, then your diet or training probably needs re-evaluation. I've read alot of guys over 200lbs that make gains with 20mg per week so just give it time and make sure your routines are straight.

Good luck, PP is a great compound.
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I assume you mean 20mg/day, correct.
 
UberPooper1 said:
Would it be too risky to bump up to 40mg?
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I ran:

20mg PP
20mg PP
30mg PP
30mg PP w/ 10-20mg SD <-I am almost finished this week

will continue with:

20mg SD
20-30mg SD

Gains are steady and very good. No extra sides from the PP SD combo week.

When the cycle is over (not during) run Milk Thistle for several months. You may do more harm than good if you run Milk Thistle for only a week or three. Milk Thistle must be given an appropriate amount of time to regenerate cell tissue.
 
redraiderdave said:
I just finished pp at
20-30-40-40, and was very lethargic the last week. current weight = 231
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Thanks, great feedback bro.


milwood - yes, 20mg/day ... should have been more detailed in my post...

BTW, the GL version with the 15mg caps...
...tough to set out/follow dosing plans with those 15's
don't get me wrong, i think GL has great deals and effective products. My next stack will be Pheramone-X and Megazol.

The jump from 15 to 30mg/day...Personally I wouldn't use 45mg per day so those are the only 2 options. But your cycle will last longer I guess
 
UberPooper1 said:
I just straight into 30mg of PP 3 weeks ago. Gains are decent but slow. Haven't really had any side effects. Would it be too risky to bump up to 40mg? I took E...Max LMG in December and I think my body is decently used to the somewhat similar compound.
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At your weight, you might try the 40mg dose. Keep a close eye on the side effects and if they become to aggressive, drop back to 30 and finish off the cycle. PP is a great product and many, many users go for 40mg tops. Make sure you are taking PP iwth a fatty.lipid meal and/or your EFAs throughout the day. It makes a difference! <----the EFA supplementation, not referring to PP. :cool:
 
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c-los 21 said:
At your weight, you might try the 40mg dose. Keep a close eye on the side effects and if they become to aggressive, drop back to 30 and finish off the cycle. PP is a great product and many, many users go for 40mg tops. Make sure you are taking PP iwth a fatty.lipid meal and/or your EFAs throughout the day. It makes a difference!
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How about 6-8oz 100% grapefruit juice 20-30min prior to your PP dose along w/ higher lipid meal and/or EFA? :P

Talk about getting more "bang for your buck".
 
Alpine said:
How about 6-8oz 100% grapefruit juice 20-30min prior to your PP dose along w/ higher lipid meal and/or EFA? :P

Talk about getting more "bang for your buck".
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bingo! reps.
 
having done 20,20,30,30 i found the 2 weeks on 30 weren't worth it...simply because I gained more in my first 2 weeks. I don't see much benefit frm going to 40. I only see diminishing returns.
 
methyl-D said:
meowmeow whats wrong with taking milk thistle on cycle??
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Studies indicate that using Sylymarin (the active ingredient in Milk Thistle) intermittently and for short periods of time during periods of high toxic or stressful events may hinder rather than help the liver. Those people that use methylated oral steroids for short cycles and take Milk Thistle ONLY for the duration of the cycle and then assume that they are benefiting themselves are actually doing more harm than good.

It is at that group of people that my admonition was aimed. There is nothing wrong with taking Milk Thistle throughout the cycle so long as it is continued for a significant period of time beyond cessation.

It is doubtful that Milk Thistle will much obstruct gains if taken on cycle and it is doubtful that it confers much benefit if taken on cycle as opposed to after. The Sylymarin in Milk Thistle does not act as a prophylactic; rather the theory is that it will help regenerate liver cells. It appears that if this proves to be true that Sylymarin could actually help cancer cells proliferate should they exist in the liver during the time of supplementation. So Milk Thistle is best used for extended periods of time after (or during as well) stressful events as a preventative aid but never as a cure.

Bottom line use Milk Thistle on or off cycle but make sure you continue supplementation for a significant period of time.
 
meowmeow said:
Studies indicate that using Sylymarin (the active ingredient in Milk Thistle) intermittently and for short periods of time during periods of high toxic or stressful events may hinder rather than help the liver. Those people that use methylated oral steroids for short cycles and take Milk Thistle ONLY for the duration of the cycle and then assume that they are benefiting themselves are actually doing more harm than good.

It is at that group of people that my admonition was aimed. There is nothing wrong with taking Milk Thistle throughout the cycle so long as it is continued for a significant period of time beyond cessation.

It is doubtful that Milk Thistle will much obstruct gains if taken on cycle and it is doubtful that it confers much benefit if taken on cycle as opposed to after. The Sylymarin in Milk Thistle does not act as a prophylactic; rather the theory is that it will help regenerate liver cells. It appears that if this proves to be true that Sylymarin could actually help cancer cells proliferate should they exist in the liver during the time of supplementation. So Milk Thistle is best used for extended periods of time after (or during as well) stressful events as a preventative aid but never as a cure.

Bottom line use Milk Thistle on or off cycle but make sure you continue supplementation for a significant period of time.
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Good stuff here!!!
Do you think NAC and ALA have any benefits ON cycle in combating toxins and by-products in the liver?
 
RenegadeRows said:
Good stuff here!!!
Do you think NAC and ALA have any benefits ON cycle in combating toxins and by-products in the liver?
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Based on limited studies I would make the same admonition with NAC as I did with Milk Thistle, namely that it should be run for an extended period of time.

There is just not a lot of Western (which means accepted) medical studies on NAC with solid conclusions.

If someone were to ask me for a recommendation and they were going to take lets say d-bol for a few weeks to start a 12 week testosterone cycle I would say take Milk Thistle/NAC/R-ALA throughout the oral portion of the cycle, continue through the injectable part and through PCT AND continue for at least a month thereafter.

As an aside, I myself am using NAC & Milk Thistle for six months as well as a few other things to see if I can drive out a few fat deposits I have in my liver. I am lean, use no alcohol and have an other-wise healthy liver. So my condition is unique and not chronic. My point is that I am a believer in trying things that doctors know nothing about.

How does this translate to three to four week pro-hormone cycles of methylated orals...I'm not sure. The potential harm is probably exagerated. The liver will quickly regenerate itself. But if your liver is healthy going into the cycle I would say take Milk Thistle/NAC/R-ALA throughout the cycle and PCT and for a month following the cycle. Don't cut either the Milk Thistle or NAC short.

If your liver is not healthy to begin with due to drug use, alcohol use, obesity or disease than it may not be able to regenerate itself after a methylated cycle and neither Milk Thistle nor NAC should be expected to work magic.
 
meowmeow said:
Based on limited studies I would make the same admonition with NAC as I did with Milk Thistle, namely that it should be run for an extended period of time.

There is just not a lot of Western (which means accepted) medical studies on NAC with solid conclusions.

If someone were to ask me for a recommendation and they were going to take lets say d-bol for a few weeks to start a 12 week testosterone cycle I would say take Milk Thistle/NAC/R-ALA throughout the oral portion of the cycle, continue through the injectable part and through PCT AND continue for at least a month thereafter.

As an aside, I myself am using NAC & Milk Thistle for six months as well as a few other things to see if I can drive out a few fat deposits I have in my liver. I am lean, use no alcohol and have an other-wise healthy liver. So my condition is unique and not chronic. My point is that I am a believer in trying things that doctors know nothing about.

How does this translate to three to four week pro-hormone cycles of methylated orals...I'm not sure. The potential harm is probably exagerated. The liver will quickly regenerate itself. But if your liver is healthy going into the cycle I would say take Milk Thistle/NAC/R-ALA throughout the cycle and PCT and for a month following the cycle. Don't cut either the Milk Thistle or NAC short.

If your liver is not healthy to begin with due to drug use, alcohol use, obesity or disease than it may not be able to regenerate itself after a methylated cycle and neither Milk Thistle nor NAC should be expected to work magic.
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Very good post. What are the signs one can look for, if there are any, that there is a problem regarding your liver healing itself?

Like myself for instance, am running the usual designer oral cycles: SD or PP, 4-6 weeks long in duration with NAC & MT for liver support.

However, in my teen years I had experiences with perkasettes, vicodin, alcohol, etc.

Is there a way to see signs of liver problems before they arise (pain, sensations, etc), or is it strictly determined through liver enzyme tests?

Thank you.
 
RenegadeRows said:
Very good post. What are the signs one can look for, if there are any, that there is a problem regarding your liver healing itself?

Like myself for instance, am running the usual designer oral cycles: SD or PP, 4-6 weeks long in duration with NAC & MT for liver support.

However, in my teen years I had experiences with perkasettes, vicodin, alcohol, etc.

Is there a way to see signs of liver problems before they arise (pain, sensations, etc), or is it strictly determined through liver enzyme tests?

Thank you.
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MRIs, certain urine tests, deep eye scopes, liver biopsies all to look for specific problems. I've had them all done. The biopsy was invasive...the result was no problems beyond what I stated. I am a nontextbook case. I have a healthy liver but until I can eliminate the fat from the liver (hopefully with better pancreatic digestive function) my liver enzyme ratio will always be elevated.

So high liver enzyme ratio does not always indicate toxic liver. It just alerts them to began looking for a problem.

As far as the little damage done from a few weeks on orals you will not notice or feel the damage if any nor will you notice or feel the healing if any. However if jandice appears that is a serious sign that the liver is not functioning properly. If this appears stop the orals immediately and the simple element of time and maybe cranberry juice should restore liver health. Jaundice does not mean "to late". It usually means "stop now".
 
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