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Problem is, it happens with all OL transdermals as far as I can tell.

Every bottle of DermaStrength I'v'e purchased has come to about 80ml. ! That's a full 1/3 short !

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Damn. Sounds like we need to start a separate thread about this particular issue
 
stankyleg said:
Damn. Sounds like we need to start a separate thread about this particular issue
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I've talked to OL until I'm blue in the face: they refuse to even acknowledge the problem.

This is a real shame, OL products are great, but I won't be ripped off. So, I will no longer use any OL transdermal product.

This does not bode well for their new Super DHEA if it's a transdermal!

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If one type of product is under dosed, I would not be shocked to find that all of the products are under dosed
 
stankyleg said:
If one type of product is under dosed, I would not be shocked to find that all of the products are under dosed
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Yeah, this has crossed my mind, but I do find their capped/powdered products to be very effective; however, you're right--who's to say ANY of their products are properly dosed?

I consider most of the non pharmaceutical supplement companies to be pretty shady, even the ones with a "good" reputation. After giving up AAS some years back due to the insane legal consequences, I thought I had found an innovative company that I could trust--maybe I was wrong.

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stankyleg said:
If one type of product is under dosed, I would not be shocked to find that all of the products are under dosed
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Exactly my thoughts if the bottles are under filled are the product dosage also ???

What is concerning is the company is just ignoring complaints and this thread. Which tells me enough
 
I'm a OL fan... I was going to buy their laxogenin but with all this story about it being under dosed I think I'm going with Sparta instead...
 
Jbrooks said:
Exactly my thoughts if the bottles are under filled are the product dosage also ???

What is concerning is the company is just ignoring complaints and this thread. Which tells me enough
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I was one of the first people to log their DermaTrest when it first came out a couple of years ago. After I found those bottles to be short I was to by OL that they were having problems with their dispensing machine, but rest assured the correct amount of actives were in each bottle (and they would address the problem).

Well, I believe the total amount of actives may well have been in each bottle, because I developed some pretty bad side effects due to--presumably--having used a considerably higher dose than I thought I was! Not only dishonest, but potentially dangerous to their customers! I was also asked to keep this info to myself--I trusted them and stayed silent, big mistake.

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Jbrooks said:
Exactly my thoughts if the bottles are under filled are the product dosage also ???

What is concerning is the company is just ignoring complaints and this thread. Which tells me enough
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TD's are completely different creatures than capsules/powders. For the record, all customers 'shorted bottles' always get replaced. The amount of 'ml' may come up short due to the nature of the product but the amount of active is exactly what it says in the bottle.

We have tried to 'perfect' the manufacturing process on transdermals, and believe me we use the same manufacture for td's that 90% of supplement companies use for their td's including MANY board sponsors here.

If a customer receives a bottle that slightly leaked or was slightly short we always offer a >50% discount on how many ever bottles they want to grab. This is a very fair offer in our opinion and believe me if more than a noticeable amount leaked or was shorted we will replace the bottle for free, always giving the customer the benefit of the doubt.

We would love to continue to offer td's but only at a profitable model. There are always going to be more defects and problems with td's due to their unique nature and no GMP's in place.

OL goes above and beyond on its sourcing and rigirous testing and will continue to do so, and we welcome any feedback and offer unparralled support in cases where we can help.
 
crowbar46 said:
I was one of the first people to log their DermaTrest when it first came out a couple of years ago. After I found those bottles to be short I was to by OL that they were having problems with their dispensing machine, but rest assured the correct amount of actives were in each bottle (and they would address the problem).

Well, I believe the total amount of actives may well have been in each bottle, because I developed some pretty bad side effects due to--presumably--having used a considerably higher dose than I thought I was! Not only dishonest, but potentially dangerous to their customers! I was also asked to keep this info to myself--I trusted them and stayed silent, big mistake.

Crowbar
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You CANNOT hold transdermals to the same standards as capsules and powders, they are not cut from the same cloth. All transdermals face issues ranging from the carrier breaking, over saturating etc. if we say 3g of active in the bottle its in there, most companies copy our carrier so they more than probably face the same issues we do, and as i've reiterated before there will always be more issues and replacements with transdermals due to the nature of the products. We welcome that and always replace when there is an issue.

Furthermore you've always been given free product and dealt with on a great basis. We've always replaced your bottles for FREE even if they were just slightly short.
 
fdigioia99 said:
They where donated for me to experiment. I don't JAB .lol cause I choose not to.
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Bingo. Donated.

You were given free product from a retailer. So lets say hypothetically you got 80 ml on your OG purchase and received another hypothetical free 80 ml bottle, who is the victor here, obviously the one who received 160ml for the price of the 120ml, right?
 
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Personally i am really disappointed reading some of the comments in here from people who have been giving above and beyond customer service in the past.

I guess thats the nature of a witch hunt..
 
Olympus Labs said:
TD's are completely different creatures than capsules/powders. For the record, all customers 'shorted bottles' always get replaced. The amount of 'ml' may come up short due to the nature of the product but the amount of active is exactly what it says in the bottle.

We have tried to 'perfect' the manufacturing process on transdermals, and believe me we use the same manufacture for td's that 90% of supplement companies use for their td's including MANY board sponsors here.

If a customer receives a bottle that slightly leaked or was slightly short we always offer a >50% discount on how many ever bottles they want to grab. This is a very fair offer in our opinion and believe me if more than a noticeable amount leaked or was shorted we will replace the bottle for free, always giving the customer the benefit of the doubt.

We would love to continue to offer td's but only at a profitable model. There are always going to be more defects and problems with td's due to their unique nature and no GMP's in place.

OL goes above and beyond on its sourcing and rigirous testing and will continue to do so, and we welcome any feedback and offer unparralled support in cases where we can help.
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Several problems with this statement:

1) customers should not have to constantly contact a company in order to get what they paid for! If I had to do this, I would literally have to contact you EVERY time I buy one of your transdermal products!!

2) I've never gotten a bottle that "slightly leaked", they have always been massively short--as in 40 ml. short! Why can?t you even get them in the all park? Other companies seem to be able to.

3) the "amount of active is exactly what it says in the bottle". Yeah, that may be true, but it creates a big problem. You end up getting a considerably higher dose per ml. than you thought you were getting: BIG problem with hormonal products. Furthermore, how can you possibly plan out a cycle if you NEVER know how much you're actually get in each bottle?

Crowbar
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Personally i am really disappointed reading some of the comments in here from people who have been giving above and beyond customer service in the past.

I guess thats the nature of a witch hunt..
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I have personally helped to facilitate compensation from some who raised a concern so I'm also very disappointing reading a couple of these posts.
 
crowbar46 said:
Several problems with this statement:

1) customers should not have to constantly contact a company in order to get what they paid for! If I had to do this, I would literally have to contact you EVERY time I buy one of your transdermal products!!

2) I've never gotten a bottle that "slightly leaked", they have always been massively short--as in 40 ml. short! Why can?t you even get them in the all park? Other companies seem to be able to.

3) the "amount of active is exactly what it says in the bottle". Yeah, that may be true, but it creates a big problem. You end up getting a considerably higher dose per ml. than you thought you were getting: BIG problem with hormonal products. Furthermore, how can you possibly plan out a cycle if you NEVER know how much you're actually get in each bottle?

Crowbar
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Please carefully read everything i wrote. The issue with td's will always be there for ALL companies using td's specifically, lets take powders and caps out of the talk here as there are actual gmps here.

Secondly this only affects x amount of bottles per batch which is far less than 10% from our records of replacements/damaged bottles on shipping.

Third, if you were shorted 40ml and given a 120 ml bottle to replace at no added cost you are still benefitting greatly even if that bottle was hypothetically 40ml short.

These same issues appear for all companies producing tds since they a. Use our carrier b. Use same manufacture , so its not fair to make us the opposition per se. When we pay the manufacture we expect 120ml, but understand when there are shorted bottles because thats the cost of doing business and when we receive complaints we replace.

Lastly understand that i am speaking from the outlier perspective. I am saying where there are issues we resolve them in no way am i saying there is an issue with the td's in general. I am clearly stating that with tds there will be more problems in GENERAL for ALL companies producing them.
 
Olympus Labs said:
Please carefully read everything i wrote. The issue with td's will always be there for ALL companies using td's specifically, lets take powders and caps out of the talk here as there are actual gmps here.

Secondly this only affects x amount of bottles per batch which is far less than 10% from our records of replacements/damaged bottles on shipping.

Third, if you were shorted 40ml and given a 120 ml bottle to replace at no added cost you are still benefitting greatly even if that bottle was hypothetically 40ml short.

These same issues appear for all companies producing tds since they a. Use our carrier b. Use same manufacture , so its not fair to make us the opposition per se. When we pay the manufacture we expect 120ml, but understand when there are shorted bottles because thats the cost of doing business and when we receive complaints we replace.

Lastly understand that i am speaking from the outlier perspective. I am saying where there are issues we resolve them in no way am i saying there is an issue with the td's in general. I am clearly stating that with tds there will be more problems in GENERAL for ALL companies producing them.
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Unfortunately you addressed none of the issues I brought up, you simply talked around them.

It's TOTAL NONSENSE that all companies produce TD products that are routinely 1/3 short!

I've made my case, and I'll simply switch to other companies for TD products. In fact I'm using two TD from another company, and guess what? They are NOT going to be 1/3 short.

Crowbar
 
Olympus Labs said:
Bingo. Donated.

You were given free product from a retailer. So lets say hypothetically you got 80 ml on your OG purchase and received another hypothetical free 80 ml bottle, who is the victor here, obviously the one who received 160ml for the price of the 120ml, right?
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You have no idea what your even talking about check my invoices with nutraverse. Donated was a joke. Put the right amount in your bottles! Nutraverse my name FRANK DIGIOIA CHECK invoices. Thanks
 
crowbar46 said:
Several problems with this statement:

1) customers should not have to constantly contact a company in order to get what they paid for! If I had to do this, I would literally have to contact you EVERY time I buy one of your transdermal products!!

2) I've never gotten a bottle that "slightly leaked", they have always been massively short--as in 40 ml. short! Why can?t you even get them in the all park? Other companies seem to be able to.

3) the "amount of active is exactly what it says in the bottle". Yeah, that may be true, but it creates a big problem. You end up getting a considerably higher dose per ml. than you thought you were getting: BIG problem with hormonal products. Furthermore, how can you possibly plan out a cycle if you NEVER know how much you're actually get in each bottle?

Crowbar
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Thanks Frank your 100percent right.
 
fdigioia99 said:
This is nothing against you. OL very defensive why? Thanks Frank
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I have some insight into what goes on behind the scenes at OL.

I don't know how much was in your bottle, I have no intention to argue that point.

However, OL takes quality seriously from our formulations, ingredient suppliers, to the extracts and production process. So forgive me for taking your comments personally.
 
Introducing SUP3R-11 - The Ultimate 11-Ketotestosterone Guide - All you need ...

After reading this thread lets hope the new Sup3r DHEA product is not another transdermal.

But, who am I kidding I will still purchase if it's a transdermal lol
 
I'm going to say that OL had a good product with S11. I bought 6 bottles and they sent me one for free for logging it. I've used 3 of my own plus the free bottle. Every bottle was short with the best bottle lasting about 25 days. 2 of the bottles I mixed together in Tupperware and used a syringe and those two bottles came up extremely short. I'm sure manufacturing these things somewhat consistently is hard, and it may not be malicious. As a matter of fact, I concur that every transdermal I've ever used has been at least a little bit short.

But if what others is saying is true, it doesn't look like it's an inconsistency issue. It looks like they are pretty consistent, and while it may not be malicious, it is a problem. But if it really is that consistent, then it seems like it would not be because of inconsistency issues.

I also use Endur3, Sup3r-PCT, Vitality - and I've been very happy with those products.
 
Olympus Labs Ibought 5 bottles of sup3r 11 kt
I'm using my first bottle and I'm actually pumping the dose straight into the oral syringe and it's slightly above 1.5 ml not 2 ml so maybe when ppl try to dose 2 ml it comes short and i believe yall the actives are there, would that be the issue ?
hopefully that helps, I'll post after i finish my first bottle and I'll stick to one pump and see.
 
hamdysayed said:
Olympus Labs Ibought 5 bottles of sup3r 11 kt
I'm using my first bottle and I'm actually pumping the dose straight into the oral syringe and it's slightly above 1.5 ml not 2 ml so maybe when ppl try to dose 2 ml it comes short and i believe yall the actives are there, would that be the issue ?
hopefully that helps, I'll post after i finish my first bottle and I'll stick to one pump and see.
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If there were supposed to be 60 pumps in a bottle, 2 ml each = 120 ml, then 1.5 ml is even worse.

When using my pump, I got closer to the 30 day mark...25, 26 or whatever. This suggested to me the pump was slightly under dosing the product because when I measured the 2 ml it was closer to 18-20 days per bottle.

1.5 ml X 2 pumps X 26 days = less than 80 ml in the bottle.

Again, I give some leeway with the pump because the pumps are never 100% and there is variation. This is true of every company. But I really need to measure my 3 bottles in my stash.
 
HIT4ME said:
I'm going to say that OL had a good product with S11. I bought 6 bottles and they sent me one for free for logging it. I've used 3 of my own plus the free bottle. Every bottle was short with the best bottle lasting about 25 days. 2 of the bottles I mixed together in Tupperware and used a syringe and those two bottles came up extremely short. I'm sure manufacturing these things somewhat consistently is hard, and it may not be malicious. As a matter of fact, I concur that every transdermal I've ever used has been at least a little bit short.

But if what others is saying is true, it doesn't look like it's an inconsistency issue. It looks like they are pretty consistent, and while it may not be malicious, it is a problem. But if it really is that consistent, then it seems like it would not be because of inconsistency issues.

I also use Endur3, Sup3r-PCT, Vitality - and I've been very happy with those products.
Click to expand...

We take all feedback seriously. There is no doubt that we are taking this issue seriously and will begin by first analyzing retain samples of s11 and then working out a solution with the manufacture to minimalize these occurrences which will reflect on new products.
 
HIT4ME said:
If there were supposed to be 60 pumps in a bottle, 2 ml each = 120 ml, then 1.5 ml is even worse.

When using my pump, I got closer to the 30 day mark...25, 26 or whatever. This suggested to me the pump was slightly under dosing the product because when I measured the 2 ml it was closer to 18-20 days per bottle.

1.5 ml X 2 pumps X 26 days = less than 80 ml in the bottle.

Again, I give some leeway with the pump because the pumps are never 100% and there is variation. This is true of every company. But I really need to measure my 3 bottles in my stash.
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i see what u mean, I'mjust guessing here.
i do think actives full year dosed my guess is the carrier is under dosed
all guess
 
Olympus Labs said:
We take all feedback seriously. There is no doubt that we are taking this issue seriously and will begin by first analyzing retain samples of s11 and then working out a solution with the manufacture to minimalize these occurrences which will reflect on new products.
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Glad to see it looks like you folks are taking this serious. Hope to see this fixed and reflect in new products coming out
 
How about an encapsulated 11 product from OL?!?! ;)
 
Olympus Labs said:
We take all feedback seriously. There is no doubt that we are taking this issue seriously and will begin by first analyzing retain samples of s11 and then working out a solution with the manufacture to minimalize these occurrences which will reflect on new products.
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and that's why yall my no 1 supplement company, and everybody mess up every now and then.
I'll take all the pros from OL over 1 con ( if it is truly underdosed).
will pass on next td product tho llol till confirmed and guaranteed that no issue with pump .
 
hamdysayed said:
and that's why yall my no 1 supplement company, and everybody mess up every now and then.
I'll take all the pros from OL over 1 con ( if it is truly underdosed).
will pass on next td product tho llol till confirmed and guaranteed that no issue with pump .
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We've taken immediate measures which should finally fix this 'issue completely' starting with the newest planned release.
We have completed some test batches identical to the consistency of our TDs and have recalibrated our gel filling machines before starting the tests. Those test batches filled to the 120ml measurement every time.

We've also purchased a bottle weighing station that we will use to measure the total weight of an accurate 120ml bottle. If the weight does not meet requirements the machine notifies the operator. We will keep a log of the weights that are off so we can trace them back to the gel machine that needs to be adjusted. Furthermore, We are going to apply heat proof stretch wrap for future transdermal pallets when shipping as the heat can also be a factor with TD's.

Trust me, we make immediate moves here.
 
Introducing SUP3R-11 - The Ultimate 11-Ketotestosterone Guide - All you need ...

hamdysayed said:
thought it's not bioavailable ?
or poor bioavailbilty ?
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Less and needs higher doses. I'm ok with that though. Glad to see OL coming through quickly as well.
 
so you need a test base for this? week two and feeling a bit emotional/glum. just had a squirt of dermacrine and feeling better
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Nah man, our R&D bros have stuff in the works thatll sh1t all over 11kt, count on it.
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Toff said:
so you need a test base for this? week two and feeling a bit emotional/glum. just had a squirt of dermacrine and feeling better
Click to expand...

I'm down to beta test things, haha.
 
Olympus Labs said:
We've taken immediate measures which should finally fix this 'issue completely' starting with the newest planned release.
We have completed some test batches identical to the consistency of our TDs and have recalibrated our gel filling machines before starting the tests. Those test batches filled to the 120ml measurement every time.

We've also purchased a bottle weighing station that we will use to measure the total weight of an accurate 120ml bottle. If the weight does not meet requirements the machine notifies the operator. We will keep a log of the weights that are off so we can trace them back to the gel machine that needs to be adjusted. Furthermore, We are going to apply heat proof stretch wrap for future transdermal pallets when shipping as the heat can also be a factor with TD's.

Trust me, we make immediate moves here.
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You don't know how much I appreciate this! I know I came off hard--aka, like an *******--but this is a professional attitude that speaks volumes for the company! I was despondent over having to give up OL transdermals, now I'm overjoyed to not have to!

Crowbar
 
Will you be manufacturing/bottling your existing TDs with these new safeguards in place right away, or will you be waiting for current stocks at retailers to get low?

Crowbar
 
crowbar46 said:
Will you be manufacturing/bottling your existing TDs with these new safeguards in place right away, or will you be waiting for current stocks at retailers to get low?

Crowbar
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Existing bottles are what they are...future production will utilize the new methods described above.

If anyone has a concern with existing bottles they can email me.
 
Olympus Labs said:
We've taken immediate measures which should finally fix this 'issue completely' starting with the newest planned release.
We have completed some test batches identical to the consistency of our TDs and have recalibrated our gel filling machines before starting the tests. Those test batches filled to the 120ml measurement every time.

We've also purchased a bottle weighing station that we will use to measure the total weight of an accurate 120ml bottle. If the weight does not meet requirements the machine notifies the operator. We will keep a log of the weights that are off so we can trace them back to the gel machine that needs to be adjusted. Furthermore, We are going to apply heat proof stretch wrap for future transdermal pallets when shipping as the heat can also be a factor with TD's.

Trust me, we make immediate moves here.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't expect anything less from OL
 
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