Insulin Resistance & The Drug Metformin

[JoeBrooklyn]

Yes. Fat is very calorie dense. Tons of EVOO, coconut oil, etc. I would also eat heavy cream (make sure no carbs), butter, ghee, etc

So what percentage of total calories in fat are we talking here?

 

[Gutterpump]

For a strict ketogenic diet - try this detailed calculator:

http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/

Your fat % will be fairly high, protein can be moderate and go below 1gram per pound of lean mass. The diet is protein sparing so this isn't a concern. Don't be concerned with high fat % either.

Keep in mind, your macros should flip on your refeed days. Very high carbs, very low fat, moderate protein - and you will still burn fat on these days.

 

[Gutterpump]

Here is an example for one of my typical days during a serious cut, on a CKD diet:

2401 kcal Daily Calorie Intake
25 g Carbohydrates (4%, 100 kcal)
180 g Protein (30%, 720 kcal)
176 g Fat (66%, 1581 kcal)

Based off:

My Weight Maintainence (during moderate training day)
3158 kcal

Target
2401 kcal

Deficit
757 kcal

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

Here is an example for one of my typical days during a serious cut, on a CKD diet:

2401 kcal Daily Calorie Intake
25 g Carbohydrates (4%, 100 kcal)
180 g Protein (30%, 720 kcal)
176 g Fat (66%, 1581 kcal)

Based off:

My Weight Maintainence (during moderate training day)
3158 kcal

Target
2401 kcal

Deficit
757 kcal

Wow. What exactly do you eat that has such a high fat content but such a low carb(sugar) content? Give me an example of three meals.

 

[Driven2lift]

Butter
Oils
Fattier cuts of red meat
Whole eggs

Cooking becomes much simpler on keto lol hard to mess up when you can smother everything in oil

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

Butter
Oils
Fattier cuts of red meat
Whole eggs

Cooking becomes much simpler on keto lol hard to mess up when you can smother everything in oil

So...no Nutella?

 

[Gutterpump]

This diet is SUPER easy. Lots of meat, don't buy lean cuts!! Cook in pure butter or coconut oil and don't drain the fat! Keep in mind fat is dense and heavy, it's really super easy to eat like this....but the key is to try not to fill up on dairy for protein sources. For example: most string cheese has 0 grams of carbs, and is about 50/50 fat/protein. It's been a staple of mine when I do a keto diet, but it's far better to reduce dairy. Dairy can and will cause water retention, even in dairy that has no carbs. For this reason, ghee (purified milk fat) is far better than butter to cook with. No potential allergies or water retention when you remove dairy. You also have to really increase water intake on this diet or you will become quickly dehydrated.

I also get extra fat in by putting a shot of olive oil (extra virgin) into my shakes.

 

[Driven2lift]

Lol as long as you are counting the carbs you could use a little.
But generally no

 

[Gutterpump]

For sweet cravings, I eat sugar free jello with 0 carb heavy whipped cream. Does the trick.

 

[Driven2lift]

For sweet cravings, I eat sugar free jello with 0 carb heavy whipped cream. Does the trick.

Actually did this myself, made my own every morning to have as a snack at night

Full pack of Knox gelatin (4g pro, 0, 0) sets a full bowl of jello. Used mio/crystal light so I could vary the flavour daily.

 

[Gutterpump]

Actually did this myself, made my own every morning to have as a snack at night

Full pack of Knox gelatin (4g pro, 0, 0) sets a full bowl of jello. Used mio/crystal light so I could vary the flavour daily.

Ahh man that's a good idea. Regular sugar-free Jello uses aspartame, so if you can make your own and use a flavoring that has splenda or stevia, even better. I'm about to start another CKD but this time I want to cut out all sweeteners except occasional stevia use, to see if it makes a difference.

 

[Driven2lift]

Ahh man that's a good idea. Regular sugar-free Jello uses aspartame, so if you can make your own and use a flavoring that has splenda or stevia, even better. I'm about to start another CKD but this time I want to cut out all sweeteners except occasional stevia use, to see if it makes a difference.

Its great and easy,
Not sure if you have it locally but my grocery store has a variety of stevia liquid sweeteners

 

[NattyForLife]

Its great and easy, Not sure if you have it locally but my grocery store has a variety of stevia liquid sweeteners

Stevia is all natural, but its been shown to lower testosterone!

 

[Gutterpump]

Stevia is all natural, but its been shown to lower testosterone!

Ahh I'm safe, I'm on TRT!

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

Ahh I'm safe, I'm on TRT!

Speaking of TRT, tell me a little about it. When you are on TRT do you ever come off like the rest of us?

 

[Gutterpump]

No it's pretty much for life. Big decision to start. I mean it's a low dose but after a couple years, and being over 30, restarting isn't really an option.

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

No it's pretty much for life. Big decision to start. I mean it's a low dose but after a couple years, and being over 30, restarting isn't really an option.

At what point did you make this decision? When I am off, my Total Test is about 502. It's not super low but at 45 I can only expect it to get worse. Also, have you thought about just being on Clomid?

 

[Gutterpump]

At what point did you make this decision? When I am off, my Total Test is about 502. It's not super low but at 45 I can only expect it to get worse. Also, have you thought about just being on Clomid?

I started to get my test checked out when I was around 30. For two years after that I couldn't raise it naturally above 315 so I dove into TRT. No prior steroid usage. I tried serms + hCG, wasn't good for me. I'm on test and an ai, no hcg, don't really care about having kids, but if I did, I could stop TRT briefly and jump on hcg + hmg for a while.

 

[Spaniard]

I would give berberine a shot before I try to self medicate with overseas pharma without a consulting doctor. That is a dangerous road to travel for someone who doesnt really understand what they are doing

I came into this thread to recommend the exact same. There is a study showing that berberine is somewhat comparable to metformin in effects

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

I started to get my test checked out when I was around 30. For two years after that I couldn't raise it naturally above 315 so I dove into TRT. No prior steroid usage. I tried serms + hCG, wasn't good for me. I'm on test and an ai, no hcg, don't really care about having kids, but if I did, I could stop TRT briefly and jump on hcg + hmg for a while.

What do you think about a guy like me at 45 with 502 natural test levels? I can get my test levels to 721 with Clomid. Do you think I should just wait until I get in my 50's?

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

I came into this thread to recommend the exact same. There is a study showing that berberine is somewhat comparable to metformin in effects

Yes, Burn 24 has berberine. I have ordered it.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

What do you think about a guy like me at 45 with 502 natural test levels? I can get my test levels to 721 with Clomid. Do you think I should just wait until I get in my 50's?

a doctor isn't going to prescribe you TRT if your levels are that high. you must be saying that you intend to self medicate like a guy whos on TRT?

 

[Gutterpump]

xR1pp3Rx that's actually (surprisingly) false. There's some law now that allows people over 30 to start TRT regardless of labs.

JoeBrooklyn - Can you afford TRT for life, and you don't really care about having more kids? If so then it's up to you. Anyone over the age of 30 can get TRT started even if their test is fine. It's something I've discovered about most clinics. Legally, you just need to be over 30, and they will prescribe/sell you test. They will ask for labs while you're on TRT with them, but they don't actually require labs to start with if you are over 30. Strange law, but I guess most people's test begins to decline after 30.

Up to you about Clomid though, I'd talk with a Dr about it and weigh everything out.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

udont say... brb going to a clinic with test in the high 2000s and getting mo test. :yumyum:

 

[Rodja]

I will that the fertility is definitely overblown with TRT. I've been on cycle in various dosages and compounds since January 2012 and conceived this Summer. That's without using any hCG or Clomid as well.

 

[Gutterpump]

udont say... brb going to a clinic with test in the high 2000s and getting mo test. :yumyum:

Yeah I coudn't believe it. I was in the process of changing clinics from one in Florida to a local one in NY, and was asking my friend at the clinic if they need to see my initial pre-TRT low test labs. Simple answer was no! As long as I'm over 30, I'm fine! I was shocked haha

 

[Gutterpump]

I will that the fertility is definitely overblown with TRT. I've been on cycle in various dosages and compounds since January 2012 and conceived this Summer. That's without using any hCG or Clomid as well.

Yeah I think it also depends on if you're primary or secondary before starting TRT. If you're secondary, there's always a better chance of stimulating test/sperm production after you started TRT, but if you are primary, you are going to completely shutdown any function you had. Also, if you are on TRT for years on end, you will be fully shutdown... not to mention those who blast / cruise. There is no coming back from that. Cycling is a completely different game, because people who cycle always do a PCT. There is no PCT with TRT though, and the longer you are on, the further into the abyss your testes go (compounded by blasting / crusing as well).

 

[Rodja]

Yeah I think it also depends on if you're primary or secondary before starting TRT. If you're secondary, there's always a better chance of stimulating test/sperm production after you started TRT, but if you are primary, you are going to completely shutdown any function you had. Also, if you are on TRT for years on end, you will be fully shutdown... not to mention those who blast / cruise. There is no coming back from that. Cycling is a completely different game, because people who cycle always do a PCT. There is no PCT with TRT though, and the longer you are on, the further into the abyss your testes go (compounded by blasting / crusing as well).

I should've clarified that I've been B/C since January 2012.

 

[Gutterpump]

Ahh man that's great you were still able to conceive. I've noticed a definite change in semen quality since starting years ago, but I'm pretty sure I was primary before starting. I have an unrepaired varicocele. Ive just left it alone since it doesn't hurt or cause pain.

 

[Rodja]

Ahh man that's great you were still able to conceive. I've noticed a definite change in semen quality since starting years ago, but I'm pretty sure I was primary before starting. I have an unrepaired varicocele. Ive just left it alone since it doesn't hurt or cause pain.

I've noticed quality varies depending on compounds used. Test and EQ don't seem to change it much, but any of the heavier anabolics drastically alter it.

 

[Gutterpump]

Superdrol dried me up haha! But I mean on a regular basis now, volume is lower most of the time and quality is steadily the same now it seems.
JoeBrooklyn - back to your initial topic, you should research high dosed biotin, which has similar effects to Metformin. Metformin is fairly safe though, gastro issues aside. The most worrisome aspect of it it a very rare side effect (lactic acidosis)...something you should keep an eye on if you train at a very intense level while on it. But that's the only main concern. It also can increase SHBG somehow, which can lower your free/active test levels. This stops when coming off it though.

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

a doctor isn't going to prescribe you TRT if your levels are that high. you must be saying that you intend to self medicate like a guy whos on TRT?

Yes.

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

xR1pp3Rx that's actually (surprisingly) false. There's some law now that allows people over 30 to start TRT regardless of labs.

JoeBrooklyn - Can you afford TRT for life, and you don't really care about having more kids? If so then it's up to you. Anyone over the age of 30 can get TRT started even if their test is fine. It's something I've discovered about most clinics. Legally, you just need to be over 30, and they will prescribe/sell you test. They will ask for labs while you're on TRT with them, but they don't actually require labs to start with if you are over 30. Strange law, but I guess most people's test begins to decline after 30.

Up to you about Clomid though, I'd talk with a Dr about it and weigh everything out.

No, I definitely want to have kids. I just got married again; but I was layed off 31 July, but as soon as Im back to work I am resuming saving up to turn my apartment into a duplex and then start having babies.

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

I will that the fertility is definitely overblown with TRT. I've been on cycle in various dosages and compounds since January 2012 and conceived this Summer. That's without using any hCG or Clomid as well.

Congrats!!

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

I just bought some Biotine. Still waiting for my order of Burn 24. Also, bought some Casien Protein with only 2g of Carbs.

 

[Grayson]

I just bought some Biotine. Still waiting for my order of Burn 24. Also, bought some Casien Protein with only 2g of Carbs.

I doubt biotin will do much. It's already present in the food supply.

I've read that burn24 might make people go hypo because it's so potent. I'd watch out.

Have you also considered incorporating HIIT sprints into your routine. It raises t2, very lightly touches t3 and allows your body to increase its glycogen stores.

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

I doubt biotin will do much. It's already present in the food supply.

I've read that burn24 might make people go hypo because it's so potent. I'd watch out.

Have you also considered incorporating HIIT sprints into your routine. It raises t2, very lightly touches t3 and allows your body to increase its glycogen stores.

Yes, I use to do those 5 days a week in my work outs. I would do 5 sets. I would walk as a warm up for 3 minutes, then sprint at 10mph for 1 minute, then walk at 3mph for 1 minute and I did this 5 times. As a cool down I would walk for another 3 minutes. At one point I was doing this twice a day. In the afternoon and at night. That's one of the 2 times I got down to 10.6% body fat but was never able to go below. That's why I know something is wrong with my body. It's not responding the way everyone else's body is. I told you the story about my friend who competes in the Masters? When we were teenagers he was always kind of chunky, not really fat, about 15% body fat. Now he is 41 and when he competes he gets down to 5.5% body fat. All he does is reduce his caloric intake by 15%, brings his carbs to 40% (and he eats white rice!), power walks 35 minutes 5 days per week, takes AAS, Clen and T3. His body responds, mine is not.

 

[Gutterpump]

I doubt biotin will do much. It's already present in the food supply. I've read that burn24 might make people go hypo because it's so potent. I'd watch out. Have you also considered incorporating HIIT sprints into your routine. It raises t2, very lightly touches t3 and allows your body to increase its glycogen stores.

High dosed Biotin certainly works wonders when dosed before a high carb meal. I can't remember the details but I'll find and post. I learned about this via DatBtru himself. It's legit. The key is the ultra high dose and timing.

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

High dosed Biotin certainly works wonders when dosed before a high carb meal. I can't remember the details but I'll find and post. I learned about this via DatBtru himself. It's legit. The key is the ultra high dose and timing.

What is "ultra dose"? I heard 10mg is high. So I just took that but I took it after my meal I just had.

 

[Gutterpump]

What is "ultra dose"? I heard 10mg is high. So I just took that but I took it after my meal I just had.

That's the dose, you got it. You can take it two times a day, each dose being ~7500mcg - 10mg. The effects will last about 5hrs or so each time. Take it an hour before a carb meal.

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

That's the dose, you got it. You can take it two times a day, each dose being ~7500mcg - 10mg. The effects will last about 5hrs or so each time. Take it an hour before a carb meal.

ok thanks

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

Hey guys, today I only ate 77.55 grams of carbs. I want to be congratulated.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

now keep them there or lower... you will get ripped.
BTW you asked earlier why your body doesn't respond like it used to..
well at about 25 your GH starts dropping and at 30 DHEA levels decline.. so about your age you are running on empty with several vital hormones.
not just test and t3.

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

now keep them there or lower... you will get ripped.
BTW you asked earlier why your body doesn't respond like it used to..
well at about 25 your GH starts dropping and at 30 DHEA levels decline.. so about your age you are running on empty with several vital hormones.
not just test and t3.

So should I take GH and DHEA as well? Also, I had my T3 checked and it's normal, now I dont know what it was when I was 25. If what you're saying is right then it must have been higher.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

it was higher... and no you shouldn't just take GH and DHEA.. you need to buckle down like everyone else and work harder.
if you can afford 3k a month for GH go for it.

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

it was higher... and no you shouldn't just take GH and DHEA.. you need to buckle down like everyone else and work harder.
if you can afford 3k a month for GH go for it.

I can't right now, I'm not working.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

I can't right now, I'm not working.

ok .. then... 10 less carbs tomorrow!

 

[Rodja]

it was higher... and no you shouldn't just take GH and DHEA.. you need to buckle down like everyone else and work harder. if you can afford 3k a month for GH go for it.

GH isn't anywhere near that expensive unless you're running 15IU of Serostim. If you look in the right spots, it's not much more than $3k per year.

 

[Gutterpump]

Secretagogues work very well at a fraction of the price

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

Secretagogues work very well at a fraction of the price

They have secretagogues for GH that really work?