Injectable replacement for tren during a strength cycle

fueledpassion said:
Dienolone it is then. It isnt very androgenic and I get no sides from it in that regard. Masteron with it would be perfect. I'd say 75mg EOD.

Other than that, Trestolone is a good alternative to Tren for strength but no better than Dien in this regard. Trest is best at the figure-morphing aspect. It can really melt the fat just as fast as Tren if you can keep the estrogen down.

EQ works but it takes some time to kick in and the strength, while impressive, isnt Tren-like. It offers anaerobic endurance however like no other. Make sure you take plenty of Nattokinase and keep blood pressure low while on. Outside of keeping blood pressure down, there is very little else to concern yourself with while taking EQ. It should be mild mannered in every aspect when it comes to sides, which is why I like it so much.
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Better anaerobic endurance than Mast? That's nuts 'cause I get mad muscular endurance from masteron. I would seriously never get off of masteron were that possible. Some great advice, thank you.
 
fueledpassion said:
Dienolone it is then. It isnt very androgenic and I get no sides from it in that regard. Masteron with it would be perfect. I'd say 75mg EOD.

Other than that, Trestolone is a good alternative to Tren for strength but no better than Dien in this regard. Trest is best at the figure-morphing aspect. It can really melt the fat just as fast as Tren if you can keep the estrogen down.

EQ works but it takes some time to kick in and the strength, while impressive, isnt Tren-like. It offers anaerobic endurance however like no other. Make sure you take plenty of Nattokinase and keep blood pressure low while on. Outside of keeping blood pressure down, there is very little else to concern yourself with while taking EQ. It should be mild mannered in every aspect when it comes to sides, which is why I like it so much.
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Eq made me hungry as a horse; so did boldione. It was impossible to cut on, for me at least.
 
Eq and test with some anadrol will be my next cycle. Love everything I've read about it and based on pbold it will be gold as fuuuuuuuuuuu**. If I could afford it or someone sent it for free (lol) I'd include in my log here for my first test e cycle. (Adrol kicker)
 
Running trest phenyl-ace now at just 75mg per week.
Sides are nill, libido is crazy, and endurance still good.
Weight is up despite calorie deficit, fasted running 15-20 miles per week, and endurance weight training.
No ancillaries being ran besides t3 @ 25mcg ed

But, the sd I got doesn't contain sd. Has a steroid though, but def not sd. 25mg sd would be brutal on my running as well as appetite and heartburn
But none of those have been affected
 
brofessorx said:
Running trest phenyl-ace now at just 75mg per week.
Sides are nill, libido is crazy, and endurance still good.
Weight is up despite calorie deficit, fasted running 15-20 miles per week, and endurance weight training.
No ancillaries being ran besides t3 @ 25mcg ed
Click to expand...

Niceeeee :)
 
brofessorx said:
Running trest phenyl-ace now at just 75mg per week.
Sides are nill, libido is crazy, and endurance still good.
Weight is up despite calorie deficit, fasted running 15-20 miles per week, and endurance weight training.
No ancillaries being ran besides t3 @ 25mcg ed

But, the sd I got doesn't contain sd. Has a steroid though, but def not sd. 25mg sd would be brutal on my running as well as appetite and heartburn
But none of those have been affected
Click to expand...

Isn't Trest awesome? You can just eat whatever, do whatever (or nothing) and still add muscle mass and burn fat.
 
Okay, here's what I'm looking at. I'm gonna need some help with frequency and amounts to dose:
Sust 250, Mast enanthate (200 per), , 1/2 ml twice per week.
nandrolone PP (100 per) 1 ml twice per week

I'm also gonna run MK 677- 25 mg every night, ipamorelin- 200 mcg every morning.
Anastrozole 3/4 mg twice per week.

How much finasteride, and how often?

How much T3, and how often? It's my understanding that I'd want to use the T3 at night.
Again, I'm not looking to lift the world. I just want modest gains.

How much finasteride, and how often?
How much anastrozole, and how often (I use the sublingual)?
I always run milk thistle, NAC, lecithin every day.
 
BigNerd said:
Okay, here's what I'm looking at. I'm gonna need some help with frequency and amounts to dose:
Sust 250, Mast enanthate (200 per), , 1/2 ml twice per week.
nandrolone PP (100 per) 1 ml twice per week

I'm also gonna run MK 677- 25 mg every night, ipamorelin- 200 mcg every morning.
Anastrozole 3/4 mg twice per week.

How much finasteride, and how often?

How much T3, and how often? It's my understanding that I'd want to use the T3 at night.
Again, I'm not looking to lift the world. I just want modest gains.

How much finasteride, and how often?
How much anastrozole, and how often (I use the sublingual)?
I always run milk thistle, NAC, lecithin every day.
Click to expand...

I think your anastrozole dose is a little high. 0.5 twice per week. Finasteride 1mg eod, maybe everyday, bloodwork is needed to appropriately say. T3 is strong stuff, I would go 25-50mcg/day. But I'm a little more conservative than most.
 
2kvette said:
I think your anastrozole dose is a little high. 0.5 twice per week. Finasteride 1mg eod, maybe everyday, bloodwork is needed to appropriately say. T3 is strong stuff, I would go 25-50mcg/day. But I'm a little more conservative than most.
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Conservative is cool. I'm not looking to break any world records. That looks lie a pretty sensible plan,thanks.
 
Sidebar: I can't post links, yet, but goto Google Scholar and look up high dose niacin, osteoarthritis. I'm using a really high, no flush dose of niacin in conjunction with liquid glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM,manganese, and vitamin C. My joints feel great!

Anyway, this is where we left off.
Okay, here's what I'm looking at. I'm gonna need some help with frequency and amounts to dose:
Sust 250, Mast enanthate (200 per), , 1/2 ml twice per week.
nandrolone PP (100 per) 1 ml twice per week

I'm also gonna run MK 677- 25 mg every night, ipamorelin- 200 mcg every morning.
Anastrozole 3/4 mg twice per week.

How much finasteride, and how often?

How much T3, and how often? It's my understanding that I'd want to use the T3 at night.
Again, I'm not looking to lift the world. I just want modest gains.

How much finasteride, and how often?
How much anastrozole, and how often (I use the sublingual)?
I always run milk thistle, NAC, lecithin every day.
 
T3 @ 37.5mcg/day, if you have 25mcg tabs. I recommend Alpha Pharma (that is not a supplier but a mfg'r).

Personally, I like to run T3 2-3 doses per day. It always gave me a boost of energy each time I took it so I prefered 12.5mcg X 3 per day. May not be necessary but anecdotally-speaking it worked better than once per day.

The doses of NPP and Mast are so low I doubt you'd need alot of Fina. I'd start with the lowest effective dose possible, whatever that is.
 
fueledpassion said:
T3 @ 37.5mcg/day, if you have 25mcg tabs. I recommend Alpha Pharma (that is not a supplier but a mfg'r).

Personally, I like to run T3 2-3 doses per day. It always gave me a boost of energy each time I took it so I prefered 12.5mcg X 3 per day. May not be necessary but anecdotally-speaking it worked better than once per day.

The doses of NPP and Mast are so low I doubt you'd need alot of Fina. I'd start with the lowest effective dose possible, whatever that is.
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I just want to say a few things relative to this: I strongly suspect I make more than my fair share of 5 AR. I've had acne since 14, started losing my hair gradually around 21-22, long before I'd ever used any gear. I have insanely oily skin, too.Twenty years before, to be precise. Therefore I think I may need a little more finasteride than the average bear. I just want to point out that I can't be too specific with my metabolic panels when my doctor runs blood tests. Long story, but I have to protect my livelihood.

Also, I'm a little sketchy on the purpose of the T3. Obviously I'm aware it can help with cutting, but earlier in this thread there was some mention of another mechanism that may make T3 beneficial during this type of cycle. Again, I'm a powerlifter, though I always try to at least look like an off-season bodybuilder...at least. Aesthetics are important, but not my main focus.

So, a little more info on the T3, and would I negatively effect any portion of this cycle (I've decided on NPP-100, Masteron enanthate-100, sust 250-125 twice per week. I know that sounds mild, because it is. I'm not trying to take this over the top. Were that the case I'd be using anadrol or maybe Dbol. That's what most of the really big lifters use. Also running 25 mg of MK677 every evening, 200 mcg of ipamorelin every morning
(on that note, I know where to get aquatest. I've gotta try that crazy **** one day. Test suspension, that's just nuts!)
 
BigNerd said:
Test suspension, that's just nuts!)
Click to expand...

All my lifts are about 20lbs. heavier with Test Suspension/Base

Currently using 120-150mg of TNE on days I feel like crushing numbers. Just sucks when I do the same workout without it and less weight feels as heavy as the days with.

Bench: 315 w/ TNE, 295 w/out
Squat: 415 w/ TNE, 395 w/out
 
BigNerd said:
I just want to say a few things relative to this: I strongly suspect I make more than my fair share of 5 AR. I've had acne since 14, started losing my hair gradually around 21-22, long before I'd ever used any gear. I have insanely oily skin, too.Twenty years before, to be precise. Therefore I think I may need a little more finasteride than the average bear. I just want to point out that I can't be too specific with my metabolic panels when my doctor runs blood tests. Long story, but I have to protect my livelihood.

Also, I'm a little sketchy on the purpose of the T3. Obviously I'm aware it can help with cutting, but earlier in this thread there was some mention of another mechanism that may make T3 beneficial during this type of cycle. Again, I'm a powerlifter, though I always try to at least look like an off-season bodybuilder...at least. Aesthetics are important, but not my main focus.

So, a little more info on the T3, and would I negatively effect any portion of this cycle (I've decided on NPP-100, Masteron enanthate-100, sust 250-125 twice per week. I know that sounds mild, because it is. I'm not trying to take this over the top. Were that the case I'd be using anadrol or maybe Dbol. That's what most of the really big lifters use. Also running 25 mg of MK677 every evening, 200 mcg of ipamorelin every morning
(on that note, I know where to get aquatest. I've gotta try that crazy **** one day. Test suspension, that's just nuts!)
Click to expand...

T3 is optional but what it can and has done for me is this:

1) suppresses prolactin or at least keeps it within normal ranges
2) increases hunger
3) makes it difficult to get fat but not difficult to gain weight (because you will eat more)
4) speedier recovery + higher energy levels
5) results happen faster - what normally takes 8 weeks can be done in 5-6 with T3

The way I explained it in previous posts is that T3 increase whole body turnover of proteins as well as just speeding up bodily functions. AAS and increased calories easily outdoes catabolic activity of T3. You don't have to run it but it is safer in general as long as the doses are reasonable (50mcg or less per day). Here is an older post of mine. You'll have to research to find the studies to back these things up or choose to not believe me or choose to blindly follow my advice but regardless, I don't have time right at the moment to validate every thought of mine with "science".

-----------------------------------------------------------------

For what it is worth ( I don't have the study in front of me ) there was a clinical study that measured the composition changes of men who were bed-ridden, on 50mcg T3 and 200mg Testosterone per week.

The subjects didn't lose any muscle mass. I distinctly remember this study because it eradicated my fears of losing mass while on T3.

Also, while I was running less than 400mg/wk of various androgens during contest prep, I ran 37.5-50mcg of T3 per day and added 8lbs of lean mass while losing 16lbs of fat mass. This was over the course of about 7-8 weeks though. Used in conjunction with insulin or boat loads of carbs, T3 actually becomes solely anabolic. The catabolic nature of T3 can easily be reduced or removed with insulin or carbs. Unlike other hormones, T3 is both catabolic AND anabolic - just depends on the metabolic environment (fasted or fed state).

Just remember that T3 is strong but insulin is stronger and can overcome T3's catabolic tendencies. The best way I can explain it is using a warehouse full of goods that has a steady stream of incoming supplies that equals a steady stream of shipments. We'll call the supplies amino acids. In this scenario, you'd have zero change in composition and weight.

T3 increases the income supplies (receipts) and the shipments. But the shipments would increase in greater amounts. So we will eventually have a net deficit inventory of supplies (amino acids). We're losing inventory basically.

Insulin and AAS basically slow down the orders and therefore the shipments out of the warehouse, while T3 is still increasing the incoming re-stocking supplies on the other end. The more insulin (carbs) and AAS we use, the slower the shipments (muscle protein breakdown) we see going out. You end up with gaining inventory in that environment because T3 is still increasing re-stock receipts while insulin and AAS are slowing down the loss of inventory on the other side.

Understand? This is why T3 is awesome. It increases protein turnover but when you slow down the use of proteins via anabolics of various sorts, you just get a hyper nutrient-dumping environment from the T3. This is where cheat meals and higher calories really pay off with T3 usage. Combining T3 and AAS, you can really do things that are quite unfair in terms of what the body would be able to do naturally. You can literally transform your body and do it significantly faster to boot.
 
fueledpassion said:
T3 is optional but what it can and has done for me is this:

1) suppresses prolactin or at least keeps it within normal ranges
2) increases hunger
3) makes it difficult to get fat but not difficult to gain weight (because you will eat more)
4) speedier recovery + higher energy levels
5) results happen faster - what normally takes 8 weeks can be done in 5-6 with T3

The way I explained it in previous posts is that T3 increase whole body turnover of proteins as well as just speeding up bodily functions. AAS and increased calories easily outdoes catabolic activity of T3. You don't have to run it but it is safer in general as long as the doses are reasonable (50mcg or less per day). Here is an older post of mine. You'll have to research to find the studies to back these things up or choose to not believe me or choose to blindly follow my advice but regardless, I don't have time right at the moment to validate every thought of mine with "science".

-----------------------------------------------------------------

For what it is worth ( I don't have the study in front of me ) there was a clinical study that measured the composition changes of men who were bed-ridden, on 50mcg T3 and 200mg Testosterone per week.

The subjects didn't lose any muscle mass. I distinctly remember this study because it eradicated my fears of losing mass while on T3.

Also, while I was running less than 400mg/wk of various androgens during contest prep, I ran 37.5-50mcg of T3 per day and added 8lbs of lean mass while losing 16lbs of fat mass. This was over the course of about 7-8 weeks though. Used in conjunction with insulin or boat loads of carbs, T3 actually becomes solely anabolic. The catabolic nature of T3 can easily be reduced or removed with insulin or carbs. Unlike other hormones, T3 is both catabolic AND anabolic - just depends on the metabolic environment (fasted or fed state).

Just remember that T3 is strong but insulin is stronger and can overcome T3's catabolic tendencies. The best way I can explain it is using a warehouse full of goods that has a steady stream of incoming supplies that equals a steady stream of shipments. We'll call the supplies amino acids. In this scenario, you'd have zero change in composition and weight.

T3 increases the income supplies (receipts) and the shipments. But the shipments would increase in greater amounts. So we will eventually have a net deficit inventory of supplies (amino acids). We're losing inventory basically.

Insulin and AAS basically slow down the orders and therefore the shipments out of the warehouse, while T3 is still increasing the incoming re-stocking supplies on the other end. The more insulin (carbs) and AAS we use, the slower the shipments (muscle protein breakdown) we see going out. You end up with gaining inventory in that environment because T3 is still increasing re-stock receipts while insulin and AAS are slowing down the loss of inventory on the other side.

Understand? This is why T3 is awesome. It increases protein turnover but when you slow down the use of proteins via anabolics of various sorts, you just get a hyper nutrient-dumping environment from the T3. This is where cheat meals and higher calories really pay off with T3 usage. Combining T3 and AAS, you can really do things that are quite unfair in terms of what the body would be able to do naturally. You can literally transform your body and do it significantly faster to boot.
Click to expand...
Perfect anology
 
2kvette said:
NPP can't aromatize, no progestin can, there is no such thing as nor estrogen, all estrogens are carbon 19 absent. The gyno comes from increased fluid retention that is tissue specific b/c 19-nor steroids will bind and activate the progesterone receptor.
Click to expand...

henryv and Brymaster for all of Bry17's posts itt.

Jbry corrected you more than a few times. He has been around quite a while and knows more in some areas than many researchers who attempt/perform a study or studies on anabolic steroids.

brofessorx said:
And I left it out last time we discussed this, but I've found a way for dienolone to (possibly) convert into estrogen, but it seems to be a stretch .

Oh, and nor testosterone readily aromatizes into estrogen. Same for 7a methyl nor test, and 7a,17a di methyl nor test. (Cheque drops)
Click to expand...

Edit: I am still not a chemist and I haven't synthesized anything, I lied on that part. I don't really believe you have either. It takes a lot of resource to source the materials necessary to perform the reactions.
 
Bry17 said:
Jbry corrected you more than a few times. He has been around quite a while and knows more in some areas than many researchers who attempt/perform a study or studies on anabolic steroids.

Evidence to support that nandrolone does not aromatize? Saying "no progestin can" (and I wouldn't really call nandrolone a progestin despite it having some activity at PRs) has no real basis and shows your lack of understanding in that compound metabolism is not always absolute. "Nor" is referring to the lack of carbon (and hydrogen atoms in this case) at a specific position; nor-estrogens (18-nor) are possible.

I don't feel like addressing some of your other posts



That article was written back in 2011 (I think) before I began practicing chemical synthesis. The entire article is about biochemistry and pharmacokinetics and the majority of it is fair to assume and correct (I don't like the wording on some parts though).
Click to expand...
This thread ended over a year ago
 
Bry17 said:
Jbry corrected you more than a few times. He has been around quite a while and knows more in some areas than many researchers who attempt/perform a study or studies on anabolic steroids.

Evidence to support that nandrolone does not aromatize? Saying "no progestin can" (and I wouldn't really call nandrolone a progestin despite it having some activity at PRs) has no real basis and shows your lack of understanding in that compound metabolism is not always absolute. "Nor" is referring to the lack of carbon (and hydrogen atoms in this case) at a specific position; nor-estrogens (18-nor) are possible.

I don't feel like addressing some of your other posts



That article was written back in 2011 (I think) before I began practicing chemical synthesis. The entire article is about biochemistry and pharmacokinetics and the majority of it is fair to assume and correct (I don't like the wording on some parts though).
Click to expand...

Well, it would look like I have more experience than you in chemical synthesis. Who is Jbry? This is old and I don't have enough time to go through 9 pages of crap, since I just got done giving an hour long presentation on Oxandrolone in burn patients to some faculty and colleagues. Aromatization does not happen. Aromatase generates a formyl intermediate from C19. 19-nor= no methyl to formylate, no intermediate to finish aromatization with.

"The conversion of the natural C19 steroids, testosterone and androstenedione, into estradiol-17beta and estrone is dependent on the oxidative elimination of the angular C19-methyl group. This complex key reaction is catalyzed by the cytochrome P450 aromatase, which is expressed in many tissues of the adult human (e.g. ovary, fat tissue), but not in the liver. However, 19-nortestosterone derivatives are characterized by the lack of the C19-methyl group. Therefore, for the aromatization of these synthetic steroids, the action of the cytochrome P450 aromatase is not necessary and the oxidative introduction of double bonds into the A-ring can be catalyzed by other hepatic cytochrome P450 enzymes."

Invalid Link Removed

The reaction is catalyzed by NON-AROMATASE p450's. SO AROMATASE INHIBITORS WONT DO ANYTHING SINCE ITS NOT THE ENZYME INVOLVED.

Also, why u gotta be such a d1ck?
 
2kvette said:
Well, it would look like I have more experience than you in chemical synthesis. Who is Jbry? This is old and I don't have enough time to go through 9 pages of crap, since I just got done giving an hour long presentation on Oxandrolone in burn patients to some faculty and colleagues. Aromatization does not happen. Aromatase generates a formyl intermediate from C19. 19-nor= no methyl to formylate, no intermediate to finish aromatization with.

"The conversion of the natural C19 steroids, testosterone and androstenedione, into estradiol-17beta and estrone is dependent on the oxidative elimination of the angular C19-methyl group. This complex key reaction is catalyzed by the cytochrome P450 aromatase, which is expressed in many tissues of the adult human (e.g. ovary, fat tissue), but not in the liver. However, 19-nortestosterone derivatives are characterized by the lack of the C19-methyl group. Therefore, for the aromatization of these synthetic steroids, the action of the cytochrome P450 aromatase is not necessary and the oxidative introduction of double bonds into the A-ring can be catalyzed by other hepatic cytochrome P450 enzymes."

Invalid Link Removed

The reaction is catalyzed by NON-AROMATASE p450's. SO AROMATASE INHIBITORS WONT DO ANYTHING SINCE ITS NOT THE ENZYME INVOLVED.

Also, why u gotta be such a d1ck?
Click to expand...

Edit: I've not synthesized anything

You just quoted a study which says "Therefore, for the aromatization of these synthetic steroids" and then proceeded to say they can't aromatize. I suggest you learn what aromatization means before even further making a fool of yourself.
 
Bry17 said:
You don't know what I have experienced or synthesized so I'm not sure how you can say that especially when my post does not involve synthesis. I wouldn't trust you to turn on a hot plate, let alone perform a synthesis.

You just quoted a study which says "Therefore, for the aromatization of these synthetic steroids" and then proceeded to say they can't aromatize. I suggest you learn what aromatization means before even further making a fool of yourself
Click to expand...
The study was the one actually contradicting itself. Stating 19nors cannot be turned into estrogen by aromatase then calls it aromatization when it is reduce to estrogen through a different pathway. That's not on him. His stance never was it can't be converted to estrogen, but it couldn't be converted to estrogen by aromatase, which is fact.
 
rtmilburn said:
The study was the one actually contradicting itself. Stating 19nors cannot be turned into estrogen by aromatase then calls it aromatization when it is reduce to estrogen through a different pathway. That's not on him. His stance never was it can't be converted to estrogen, but it couldn't be converted to estrogen by aromatase, which is fact.
Click to expand...

Correct. So AI is worthless, SERM is needed. This was the entire point
 
Bry17 said:
You don't know what I have experienced or synthesized so I'm not sure how you can say that especially when my post did not involve synthesis. I wouldn't trust you to turn on a hot plate, let alone perform a synthesis.

You just quoted a study which says "Therefore, for the aromatization of these synthetic steroids" and then proceeded to say they can't aromatize. I suggest you learn what aromatization means before even further making a fool of yourself
Click to expand...

Finish reading. They do not interact with aromatase. I suggest you review your chapters on keto-enol tautomerization; this is what happens.
 
Bry17 said:
Shut up. I'm not going to read it again and I don't need to review that subject. I said you should learn what aromatization is but you still aren't getting it
Click to expand...

Who said I don't understand aromatization? Only you did. The scope of this conversation is limited to the biochemical pathway via the aromatase enzyme, as it accounts for any significant amount of estradiol produced. Other cyp mediated production has shown to be so insignificant its not realistic to consider. Obviously there are synthetic methods to generate aromatic rings, in-vivo tautomerization has been shown to happen, and other enzymatic processes are possible via gut bacteria and yeast. But, again, this discussion is dealing with the major pathway via aromatase. Minor Cyp interactions that produce clinically irrelevant amounts of estrogens are irrelevant.

And "Shut up"? Are you 8??
 
Whoa whoa whoa, now that I’ve put the “who’s dcik is bigger” comments away, let’s get to the important point of your entire post. Who’s Jbry? You mean you post on here and don’t know who I am? :lmao: but in all seriousness, you seem smart, I’m glad you’re venture into the supplement world is going well with nos. Bry and I had the pleasure of watching him learn and grow over at phf. You seem like a pretty smart guy and I’ve got no beef with you, w/e brys bone to pick is, that’s on him. Me, I’ve personally grown disinterested in the androgen field, until it becomes legal again. But, I understand all that’s said, and heartily disagree that nor androgens can not aromatize. :banana:

2kvette said:
———
Who is Jbry?
——
Aromatization does not happen. Aromatase generates a formyl intermediate from C19. 19-nor= no methyl to formylate, no intermediate to finish aromatization with.

"The conversion of the natural C19 steroids, testosterone and androstenedione, into estradiol-17beta and estrone is dependent on the oxidative elimination of the angular C19-methyl group. This complex key reaction is catalyzed by the cytochrome P450 aromatase, which is expressed in many tissues of the adult human (e.g. ovary, fat tissue), but not in the liver. However, 19-nortestosterone derivatives are characterized by the lack of the C19-methyl group. Therefore, for the aromatization of these synthetic steroids, the action of the cytochrome P450 aromatase is not necessary and the oxidative introduction of double bonds into the A-ring can be catalyzed by other hepatic cytochrome P450 enzymes."

Invalid Link Removed

The reaction is catalyzed by NON-AROMATASE p450's. SO AROMATASE INHIBITORS WONT DO ANYTHING SINCE ITS NOT THE ENZYME INVOLVED.

Also, why u gotta be such a d1ck?
Click to expand...

That’s just old school forum fun for you,he’s actually been super nice imo, you should of seen this place back in the pp days!
 
But I will let you slice and dice this study for me:
Aromatization of 7α-Methyl-19-nortestosterone by human placental microsomes in vitro
Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

A 10 times excess of tibolone and its metabolites did not inhibit the conversion of androstenedione to estrone by human recombinant aromatase as determined by estradiol receptor assay whereas T, MT, Nan, and MENT inhibited the conversion for 75, 53, 85 and 67%, respectively. Tibolone, 3α- and 3β-hydroxytibolone were not converted by human aromatase whereas the estrogenic activity formed with the Δ4-isomer suggests a conversion rate of 0.2% after 120 min incubation.In contrast T, MT, Nan, and MENT were completely converted to their A-ring aromates within 15 min while NET could not be aromatized. Aromatization of T, MT, Nan and MENT was confirmed with LC-MSMS. Structure/function analysis indicated that the 17α-ethynyl-group prevents aromatization of (19-nor)steroids while 7α-methyl substitution had no effect
Click to expand...
Tibolone doesn’t seem to care for aromatase like nor test does.
 
Bry17 said:
Is that guy Rx4science? I had some issues with his posts over at Vicious. Whoever he is he continues to dodge the fact that he was wrong and is now saying the amount produced is "irrelevant", previously says a study is full of **** basically (some of them actually are wrong in areas), and claims to only be talking about aromatization via Cyp450 aromatase when I have clearly stated that's not the only in vivo aromatization route.
Click to expand...
Haha. Lots of dick swing has been going on, on AM recently.
 
brofessorx said:
But I will let you slice and dice this study for me:
Aromatization of 7α-Methyl-19-nortestosterone by human placental microsomes in vitro
Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed


Tibolone doesn’t seem to care for aromatase like nor test does.
Click to expand...

Read this one, Invalid Link Removed

"Collectively, these data support the notion that the C19-angular methyl group, which is the site of attack for the first and second hydroxylation reactions [4,6], is important for optimal formation of aromatic A-ring products by the human P450 aromatase enzyme system in vitro, and in its absence, the aromatization reaction proceeds slowly or not at all. Recently Hong et al. [6] described the molecular basis for the aromatization reaction by detailed structure–function analysis. Their scheme centered the C19-methyl group over the heme iron."

It says that its very low and slow conversion. Around 1/3 to 1/4 the extent of testosterone.

Also found another study that is the same one you linked above essentially showing no ment aromatic products.

Invalid Link Removed

"However, MNT was not metabolized by human placental microsomes, whereas it was very actively metabolized by equine placental microsomes."

It would appear that the process is not favored by aromatase. BUTTTTTTT, there are many conflicting reports.
 
2kvette said:
Read this one, Invalid Link Removed

"Collectively, these data support the notion that the C19-angular methyl group, which is the site of attack for the first and second hydroxylation reactions [4,6], is important for optimal formation of aromatic A-ring products by the human P450 aromatase enzyme system in vitro, and in its absence, the aromatization reaction proceeds slowly or not at all. Recently Hong et al. [6] described the molecular basis for the aromatization reaction by detailed structure–function analysis. Their scheme centered the C19-methyl group over the heme iron."

It says that its very low and slow conversion. Around 1/3 to 1/4 the extent of testosterone.

Also found another study that is the same one you linked above essentially showing no ment aromatic products.

Invalid Link Removed

"However, MNT was not metabolized by human placental microsomes, whereas it was very actively metabolized by equine placental microsomes."

It would appear that the process is not favored by aromatase. BUTTTTTTT, there are many conflicting reports.
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I’m happy to put this discussion to bed and agree that we two ( or 3 ) disagree on the subject, which I’m happy to note when/if ever discussed in other threads.
Me personally, I don’t really care anymore cause I’m not with any companies selling nor androgens so don’t feel the need to defend my thoughts.
 
brofessorx said:
I’m happy to put this discussion to bed and agree that we two ( or 3 ) disagree on the subject, which I’m happy to note when/if ever discussed in other threads.
Me personally, I don’t really care anymore cause I’m not with any companies selling nor androgens so don’t feel the need to defend my thoughts.
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Same, I don't care. I get no money from anything. Put it to bed, I was having fun with Frymaster! He gets awful sore idk why. Thank you for representing your thoughts with good sources, even if we reach different conclusions. Few rarely take the time to read the nit picky details on things.
 
Bry17 said:
Not sure why you repped me instead of just posting that message about Rx4 in here. I have also grown bored of androgens
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Hope this makes you happy sweet cheeks:
brymaster17 said:
y17
Thread: Injectable replacement for tren during a strength cycle
I’m pretty sure it is. The way they post and word things is very very similar. That’s my conclusion at least.
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:spankme:
 
Bry17 said:
You were getting fried, yes (by me, no less-which should make you want to get more knowledgeable). And it is Brymaster not "frymaster"—I lol @ your attempt to mock me

I spent 3-4 years blogging and publishing posts with henryv—one would expect me to know what I'm talking about by now
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Okay not mocking you, seriously asking, but are you autistic? Or dyslexic? Genuinely asking.

It would seem either you are not understanding me or I am not conveying my points well.

And I’ve been in college 8 years, I have two chem degrees and almost done with doctorate with a research focus in androgens and anabolic agents. I can be wrong plenty, but one would expect me to know what I’m tslking about.
 
2kvette said:
Okay not mocking you, seriously asking, but are you autistic? Or dyslexic? Genuinely asking.

It would seem either you are not understanding me or I am not conveying my points well.

And I’ve been in college 8 years, I have two chem degrees and almost done with doctorate with a research focus in androgens and anabolic agents. I can be wrong plenty, but one would expect me to know what I’m tslking about.
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Yes, and unlike these two big fish in a little pond, you've conducted yourself like a gentleman.
Yeah, like you're supposed to know who these guys are? You two clowns need to get over yourselves.
You may have a greater knowledge on the subject than I, clown duo, but I can describe what a vagina feels like.

I've spent almost as much time studying martial arts and fighting full contact as 2K has spent in college. That's why I don't shoot my mouth off the way you, (ProfessorX and Bry) do. My first dealings with you, ProfessorX you made a ****head comment to me; a totally unprovoked comment.

And, Bry, you know what the ladies say about a guy that talks about the size of his dick. Or, do you? When's the last time you spoke to one?
 
BigNerd said:
Yes, and unlike these two big fish in a little pond, you've conducted yourself like a gentleman.
Yeah, like you're supposed to know who these guys are? You two clowns need to get over yourselves.
You may have a greater knowledge on the subject than I, clown duo, but I can describe what a vagina feels like.

I've spent almost as much time studying martial arts and fighting full contact as 2K has spent in college. That's why I don't shoot my mouth off the way you, (ProfessorX and Bry) do. My first dealings with you, ProfessorX you made a ****head comment to me; a totally unprovoked comment.

And, Bry, you know what the ladies say about a guy that talks about the size of his dick. Or, do you? When's the last time you spoke to one?
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Describe to me what a vagina feels like
 
BigNerd said:
Warm and soft...just like your physique in that photo.
Seriously, who asked for your input? Did the clown duo summon you?
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Damn man. Mind throwing a water to put out the flames from that sick burn?

I have no clue who anybody here is or what you are even fighting about. I was just Bored on the crapper and read some nerd post about karate and claiming to get chicks and started laughing in my stall
 
For the record, anyone who resorts to posting about their ability to fight or get chicks on an Internet forum disagreement probably sucks at both.
 
I’m pretty sure most everyone got the humor in my “what?!?! You post on here and don’t know who I am?” comment. It’s silly.
I can’t speak for anyone else but I’ve seen behind the curtain of this industry and know for sure 2 things:
1) I am a nobody.
2) my knowledge is like a mustard seed compared to Mount Everest. I’m the mustard seed.
Just chill and have fun. If in 2017-18 I post some askhole comments, I’ve probably had some adult beverages and hopped online for fun.
 
Bry17 said:
Fixed



Reported











Repped

Now be still while I let out some aggression :op:










:beerchug:
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I actually just noticed that!
:lmao:
 
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