IGF-1 lr3 Post Work Out Only?

[stankyleg]

Is this as effective as ED but spread out over a longer period? I want to build lean mass slowly so my body will retain it better.

 

[disgraziato]

Is this as effective as ED but spread out over a longer period? I want to build lean mass slowly so my body will retain it better.

Consensus has slowly been changing as far as the proper protocol of igf use....It used to be PWO with the idea being the damaged muscles you just trained will have more receptors available then. I've seen the protocol slowly switching to pinning at non-training times, with that idea being that after training your more vascular/pumped/more blood in the area. If you pin into that environment, the igf, which mostly goes sytemic anyway, will have even less chance of having any stick around, due to the blood swelled capillaries sucking it out even more forcefully and quickly. I truly have no idea which is better. I've researched the PWO protocol with decent results, and plan to research micro-dosing in multiple pins at non-training times and I'll judge for myself which way is superior.

 

[wolverines]

ive run igf several times the first few mainly post workout. recently ive switched things up and began pinning around 10 am consecutively on a 5 on 2 off protocol. this has worked much better for me

 

[TheKreation]

ive run igf several times the first few mainly post workout. recently ive switched things up and began pinning around 10 am consecutively on a 5 on 2 off protocol. this has worked much better for me

Your pinning protocol; are you targeting the muscle you trained the previous day or the muscle you plan to train later that day?

 

[criticalbench]

The best it ever worked for me was shot Mon/wed/fri PWO for as long as I could afford to run it.

 

[wolverines]

Your pinning protocol; are you targeting the muscle you trained the previous day or the muscle you plan to train later that day?

I would pin the muscle that I planned on training that day. The pump is unreal its really something you have to experience for yourself.

 

[criticalbench]

I would pin the muscle that I planned on training that day. The pump is unreal its really something you have to experience for yourself.

Tried it any hated it, had to stop my chest workout.

 

[wolverines]

Tried it any hated it, had to stop my chest workout.

Hmmm how many mcg were you dosing? There was also about a 4 hour gap between the time i took my first shot and the time I trained.

 

[TheKreation]

Hmmm how many mcg were you dosing? There was also about a 4 hour gap between the time i took my first shot and the time I trained.

I was just about to ask the time-frame at which you did your pinning. I did 20mcg this morning around 9am then worked out at about 4. But I also took a 100mcg MGF (non-peg) about 15-20minutes preworkout. Then another 40mcg IGF PWO. I did find my strength higher than normal...dunno if it was MGF, placebo, or IGF this am.

I've been thinking about the IGF PreWO and MGF PostWO. I just need to find a protocol and stick with it.

I'm not toooo interested in pumps as I already get insane pumps, I'm highly interested in the results though. And both methods seem to have pros and cons. And the 1/2 life of IGF PreWO makes it seem like it would still offer the benefits same as PostWO injection, just not quite as LOCALIZED...which is where my MGF would/will come into play.

Right now I have this:
IGF 20mcg upon waking M/W/F
IGF 40mcg PostWO M/W/F
MGF 100mcg T/T/S upon waking in bodypart trained previous day.
MGF 100mcg T/T Pre/Post workout in trained muscle.

Only thing I would change is the M/W/F IGF to PRE only and MGF POST only.

Your thoughts?

 

[wolverines]

I was just about to ask the time-frame at which you did your pinning. I did 20mcg this morning around 9am then worked out at about 4. But I also took a 100mcg MGF (non-peg) about 15-20minutes preworkout. Then another 40mcg IGF PWO. I did find my strength higher than normal...dunno if it was MGF, placebo, or IGF this am.

I've been thinking about the IGF PreWO and MGF PostWO. I just need to find a protocol and stick with it.

I'm not toooo interested in pumps as I already get insane pumps, I'm highly interested in the results though. And both methods seem to have pros and cons. And the 1/2 life of IGF PreWO makes it seem like it would still offer the benefits same as PostWO injection, just not quite as LOCALIZED...which is where my MGF would/will come into play.

Right now I have this:
IGF 20mcg upon waking M/W/F
IGF 40mcg PostWO M/W/F
MGF 100mcg T/T/S upon waking in bodypart trained previous day.
MGF 100mcg T/T Pre/Post workout in trained muscle.

Only thing I would change is the M/W/F IGF to PRE only and MGF POST only.

Your thoughts?

Yea 60 mcg is a pretty solid dose of IGF I think you'll benefit from that quite well. If I were you, I'd keep the MGF to strictly post workout or at night somewhere in the 200 - 400 mcg range. Are you using just regular MGF or PEG MGF?

 

[disgraziato]

ive run igf several times the first few mainly post workout. recently ive switched things up and began pinning around 10 am consecutively on a 5 on 2 off protocol. this has worked much better for me

Can you elaborate. This a subject I'm interested in. What discernible differences can you articulate between pre and post workout dosing?

 

[Wilderbeast]

In my opinion anyone making a decision on usage of IGF-1 by determining when they get the best "pump" out of it is using it incorrectly. IGF-1 should be used to induce "hyperplasia," i.e. the creation of new muscle cells. If it is used for any other purpose i.e. pumps, fatloss, etc. you are using it for the WRONG reasons. The best results in hyperplasia have seem to come from Post workout or some who run it pre workout. (Pre or Post workout pinning, the idea is that the receptors are upgregulated immediately after the workout... some disagree as to which method of administration is more ideal in that regard)

BEAST

 

[wolverines]

In my opinion anyone making a decision on usage of IGF-1 by determining when they get the best "pump" out of it is using it incorrectly. IGF-1 should be used to induce "hyperplasia," i.e. the creation of new muscle cells. If it is used for any other purpose i.e. pumps, fatloss, etc. you are using it for the WRONG reasons. The best results in hyperplasia have seem to come from Post workout or some who run it pre workout. (Pre or Post workout pinning, the idea is that the receptors are upgregulated immediately after the workout... some disagree as to which method of administration is more ideal in that regard)

BEAST

Well duh lol... I was only saying that it gave a great pump deff not the reason I chose to run it... My main goals with using it were to bring up lagging body (chest and calves). I knew before hand that I would not experience immediate gains like with AAS but thats not what IGF is intended for. I was more interested in the growth that would take place a few months down the road.

And I must say it worked very well in doing so. My calves and chest have gotten bigger and I am continuing to see progress. I have tried both pre and post workout mainly for the reasons you mentioned (hyperplasia) and it seems that for me dosing it pre workout yielded more gains.

Whats your experience been like with IGF Wilder?

 

[wolverines]

Btw I liked the fact that you mentioned it should not be used primarily for fat loss. I see a lot of people on here recommending IGF to lean out and that was not the case for me at all. I think people get a little too happy when they read that IGF speeds up carbohydrate metabolism.

IGF makes me very lethargic even at doses of 40mcg. I will usually up my carb intake while on which puts a little bit of extra fat on me. I dont really mind too much tho as I feel its worth it.

 

[wolverines]

Can you elaborate. This a subject I'm interested in. What discernible differences can you articulate between pre and post workout dosing?

The only thing I can really say for sure is that I've experienced more soreness and growth from dosing pre workout however some people prefer post. Its really a matter of preference you just have to figure out what works for you.

IGF makes me pretty lethargic so I normally up my carbs which gives me enough fuel for a solid workout. When i first tried dosing post workout, I usually just felt like a** and ate the rest of the night while laying around.

From a mental standpoint, I just liked knowing that I had something already in the muscles that I planned on training that day to help them grow. Hope this helps.

 

[Wilderbeast]

Wolverines,

I wasn't implying anything negative toward your administration method. I actually agree with pre or post workout usage. The only thing I find bad about pre workout is that I get muscle pumps really badly on certain bodyparts without using any type of pre workout supplement, so I'll be sticking (no pun intended) with PWO. Sometimes I get pumps bad enough that it impairs my ability to get a full range of motion or proper contractions. GL in your researching senors.

BEAST

 

[criticalbench]

40mcg.. anything over is pointless IMO. 40mcg works amazing, I saw no difference with 40, and 100 which was the max I've went in my lifetime.

 

[wolverines]

40mcg.. anything over is pointless IMO. 40mcg works amazing, I saw no difference with 40, and 100 which was the max I've went in my lifetime.

Agreed. 40 is the sweet spot for me too. I went as high as 120 and didnt see any difference.

 

[stankyleg]

Agreed. 40 is the sweet spot for me too. I went as high as 120 and didnt see any difference.

Only so many receptors, i guess

 

[TheKreation]

Yea 60 mcg is a pretty solid dose of IGF I think you'll benefit from that quite well. If I were you, I'd keep the MGF to strictly post workout or at night somewhere in the 200 - 400 mcg range. Are you using just regular MGF or PEG MGF?

Regular MGF. I've been doing 100mcg total PostWO and morning after in muscle trained previous day.

 

[TheKreation]

40mcg.. anything over is pointless IMO. 40mcg works amazing, I saw no difference with 40, and 100 which was the max I've went in my lifetime.

Perhaps size as some determination on the amount able to be used effectively. Like some people are able to use 20mcg and get results, and some are able to use 100mcg and get results.

I was reading around and came across this:

The discovery that IGF-I mRNAs encoding isoforms of the pro-IGF-I molecule are differentially regulated in response to mechanical stress in skeletal muscle has been the impetus for a number of studies designed to demonstrate that alternative splicing of IGF-I pre-mRNA involving exons 4, 5, and 6 gives rise to a unique peptide derived from pro-IGF-I that plays a novel role in myoblast proliferation. Research suggests that after injury to skeletal muscle, the IGF-IEb mRNA splice variant is up-regulated initially, followed by up-regulation of the IGF-IEa splice variant at later time points. Up-regulation of IGF-IEb mRNA correlates with markers of satellite cell and myoblast proliferation, whereas up-regulation of IGF-IEa mRNA is correlated with differentiation to mature myofibers. Due to the apparent role of IGF-IEb up-regulation in muscle remodeling, IGF-IEb mRNA was also named mechano-growth factor (MGF). A synthetically manufactured peptide (also termed MGF) corresponding to the 24 most C-terminal residues of IGF-IEb has been shown to promote cellular proliferation and survival. However, no analogous peptide product of the Igf1 gene has been identified in or isolated from cultured cells, their conditioned medium, or in vivo animal tissues or biological fluids. This review will discuss the relationship of the Igf1 gene to MGF and will differentiate actions of synthetic MGF from any known product of Igf1. Additionally, the role of MGF in satellite cell activation, aging, neuroprotection, and signaling will be discussed. A survey of outstanding questions relating to MGF will also be provided.

Based on that brief info, could it be that MGF(non peg) stays PWO but split the IGF dosing into Pre and about 30-45minutes Post?

The only thing I have against PreWO pinning are the systemic capabilities IGF possesses.

 

[stankyleg]

The only thing I have against PreWO pinning are the systemic capabilities IGF possesses.

Care to share those with the class?:veryhappy:

 

[Wilderbeast]

Care to share those with the class?:veryhappy:

The idea is that PWO your IGF receptors are upregulated in the muscles you trained. Preworkout you are more likely to get a systemic effect rather than a local effect due to the igf receptors in the site pinned not being upregulated yet, couple that with the fact that IGF-1 will have a higher affinity toward the area with the highest concentration of IGF receptors if the receptors in the injection site are not upregulated at the time of injection, and you could be getting yourself less than optimal site IGF-1 uptake/binding.

BEAST

 

[disgraziato]

Bear in mind though that most of the IGF we pin goes systemic immediatley, regardless of the protocol we use. The idea is to try to keep at least a little bit in a localized area that we trained or plan to train. PWO, yes, there will be muscle damage, and IGF receptors will be "calling" that IGF, but the IGF molecule is so small that its sucked away at a rapid rate. The problem with PWO pinning is that the area you trained is now engorged with blood, all the tiny capillaries as well, which will suck that IGF sytemic at a more rapid rate. Perhaps an hour or two PWO is the right answer here, IDK.

 

[stankyleg]

Bear in mind though that most of the IGF we pin goes systemic immediatley, regardless of the protocol we use. The idea is to try to keep at least a little bit in a localized area that we trained or plan to train. PWO, yes, there will be muscle damage, and IGF receptors will be "calling" that IGF, but the IGF molecule is so small that its sucked away at a rapid rate. The problem with PWO pinning is that the area you trained is now engorged with blood, all the tiny capillaries as well, which will suck that IGF sytemic at a more rapid rate. Perhaps an hour or two PWO is the right answer here, IDK.

Anyone given an IM in the trap? it seems like there would a ton of nerves

 

[TheKreation]

Bear in mind though that most of the IGF we pin goes systemic immediatley, regardless of the protocol we use. The idea is to try to keep at least a little bit in a localized area that we trained or plan to train. PWO, yes, there will be muscle damage, and IGF receptors will be "calling" that IGF, but the IGF molecule is so small that its sucked away at a rapid rate. The problem with PWO pinning is that the area you trained is now engorged with blood, all the tiny capillaries as well, which will suck that IGF sytemic at a more rapid rate. Perhaps an hour or two PWO is the right answer here, IDK.

PWO, I assume you mean PostWO.

The little miniview study I posted above says the IGF receptors are higher after the MGF receptors PostWO thus making 1hr or so PostWO not a bad idea and blood flow shouldn't be a problem by that time. Wish I could find a study showing the duration that IGF and MGF receptors stay active PostWO. But I don't think I would want to rely on 1hr post...because at least 30mins to 1hr preWO you're still going to upregulate the receptors and even though it's systemic, it could still bind elsewhere than the intestines. (Correct me if I'm wrong there.)
And with preWO you do get the "insulin" like effects with transportation of the nutrients and oxygen to the muscles. We all know this is an essential part of muscular growth. But as far as hyperplasia (my main goal with IGF/MGF), I'm still trying to figure out that "perfect scheme".
Now, with the half-life of IGF and MGF, MGF will theoretically only inhibit IGF for 30minutes PostWO.

Any thoughts on all the mumble-jumble. I'm more or less thinking aloud in hopes of having a lightbulb go off lol.

So far I'm ending my 2nd week of IGF/MGF protocol.
My starting weight was 253.5lbs. I weighed in this morning at 257.4lbs. I haven't changed my diet except I'm eating VERY clean, minus my sushi I have for lunch about 3times a week.
My dosing scheme is:
100mcg MGF M/W/F 20-30minutes Pre
60mcg IGF M/W/F immediately Post
100mcg MGF T/T/S AM previously trained muscle
100mcg MGF T/T Pre and Post

Once I have enough posts, I'll put some pictures up.

 

[criticalbench]

Yea all the time, no problems for me.

 

[disgraziato]

PWO, I assume you mean PostWO.

The little miniview study I posted above says the IGF receptors are higher after the MGF receptors PostWO thus making 1hr or so PostWO not a bad idea and blood flow shouldn't be a problem by that time. Wish I could find a study showing the duration that IGF and MGF receptors stay active PostWO. But I don't think I would want to rely on 1hr post...because at least 30mins to 1hr preWO you're still going to upregulate the receptors and even though it's systemic, it could still bind elsewhere than the intestines. (Correct me if I'm wrong there.)
And with preWO you do get the "insulin" like effects with transportation of the nutrients and oxygen to the muscles. We all know this is an essential part of muscular growth. But as far as hyperplasia (my main goal with IGF/MGF), I'm still trying to figure out that "perfect scheme".
Now, with the half-life of IGF and MGF, MGF will theoretically only inhibit IGF for 30minutes PostWO.

Yes, PWO means post workout. There are papers demonstrating that igf upregulation persists for 1-2 days after tissue insult, meaning, thats the window of opportunity, technically, for reaping full benefit of your dosed LR3. I would say anywhere from 3-6 hours PWO administration is sufficient.