IDS RAID....here we go again

Don't like the law? Do something about it to change it. Otherwise abide or not.

That right IS extended to you and everyone.

In a way I find what CBD says to make sense. While I wholly understand the thing about harming an enforcement agent doing their job. They are often just dogs let off the leash to do their masters bidding. And just as in war, dogs get shot is all I am saying. Even though they are cute, innocent things that hate not, but just do their job.

Back to the point. I cannot change a law. Why? I do not have money and power. I cannot change any laws that would harm the income of rich fat cats or that would give power to the people and not to the government. It is false to believe we can ever "vote" our freedoms back. That is an irreversible mistake made by the people that one of our children's generations will have to pay for dearly if we do not.
 
Paranoid Conjecture.

Paranoid? Seen many Indians lately? Oh yeah, they were supposed to not have rights for a while, so our government killed most of them after breaking numerous treaties, and then stuck them on reservations to rot. Aware at all of the history of WWII when our government took a few hundred thousand Japanese and stuck them in concentration camps, deprived them of their property, split up families, or did you not read that part of the history text book? Are you completely unaware now of the random searches going on in public places which just a decade ago would have been illegal and considered civil rights violations? Are you aware of the many uncharged and illegally held 'terror suspects' we currently have who are denied habeaus Corpus and denied lawyers or counsel of any kind? Lastly, are you aware of the numerous examples of not only our government's over reaching and violations of basic civil rights, but of the many perpetrated by other governments around the world to the tune of over 100 million deaths last century alone, and God knows how many lesser violations?

Paranoid my ass. More like you need a lesson in the long history of government abuses and need to be rid of the It Can't Happen Here mentality, because it has happened here already, can happen here again, and if you include bull**** laws like drug laws which I do, is currently happening here as we speak. And merely saying "Change the law if you don't like it" shows an extreme naivety about how and why laws are passed and how difficult it is for anyone, even special interests with a lot of money, to change them, much less citizens who are routinely violated and in many instances disenfranchised and stripped of political power/voting privileges. How the hell are those people supposed to change the law?
 
Paranoid? Seen many Indians lately? Oh yeah, they were supposed to not have rights for a while, so our government killed most of them after breaking numerous treaties, and then stuck them on reservations to rot. Aware at all of the history of WWII when our government took a few hundred thousand Japanese and stuck them in concentration camps, deprived them of their property, split up families, or did you not read that part of the history text book? Are you completely unaware now of the random searches going on in public places which just a decade ago would have been illegal and considered civil rights violations? Are you aware of the many uncharged and illegally held 'terror suspects' we currently have who are denied habeaus Corpus and denied lawyers or counsel of any kind? Lastly, are you aware of the numerous examples of not only our government's over reaching and violations of basic civil rights, but of the many perpetrated by other governments around the world to the tune of over 100 million deaths last century alone, and God knows how many lesser violations?

Paranoid my ass. More like you need a lesson in the long history of government abuses and need to be rid of the It Can't Happen Here mentality, because it has happened here already, can happen here again, and if you include bull**** laws like drug laws which I do, is currently happening here as we speak. And merely saying "Change the law if you don't like it" shows an extreme naivety about how and why laws are passed and how difficult it is for anyone, even special interests with a lot of money, to change them, much less citizens who are routinely violated and in many instances disenfranchised and stripped of political power/voting privileges. How the hell are those people supposed to change the law?
I chose my battles. Illegal steroids are illegals steroids and I will not waste a minute of my time or text debating fantasy projections of legislative injustices forthcoming based on those displayed historically centuries or more ago, because some kids and or adults have had their right to by illegal steroids through unscrupulous marketing and means has been infringed upon.

This legislative injustice is not even on my radar. It is no atrocity on parallel of a genocidal magnitude or any magnitude for that matter nor is this any indication of any to come.

They are drug dealers. That is illegal.
 
I chose my battles. Illegal steroids are illegals steroids and I will not waste a minute of my time or text debating fantasy projections of legislative injustices forthcoming based on those displayed historically centuries or more ago, because some kids and or adults have had their right to by illegal steroids through unscrupulous marketing and means has been infringed upon.

This legislative injustice is not even on my radar. It is no atrocity on parallel of a genocidal magnitude or any magnitude for that matter nor is this any indication of any to come.

They are drug dealers. That is illegal.

Invalid Link Removed

A significant amount of dead and otherwise violated people would disagree with you. I find your views disgustingly arbitrary and of the type that will lead this country into being a third world hell hole because of the lack of respect for justice and people's basic rights which you so off handedly wipe your rear end with.

Here's to you, B5150! In the worst sense of the classic Niemoeller quote, I hope when someone finally does come for you or someone you love, there's no one left to speak for either of you, because you will deserve no less.

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist; Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist; Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist; Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew; Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me."
- Pastor Martin Niemöller
 
Invalid Link Removed

A significant amount of dead and otherwise violated people would disagree with you. I find your views disgustingly arbitrary and of the type that will lead this country into being a third world hell hole because of the lack of respect for justice and people's basic rights which you so off handedly wipe your rear end with.

Here's to you, B5150! In the worst sense of the classic Niemoeller quote, I hope when someone finally does come for you or someone you love, there's no one left to speak for either of you, because you will deserve no less.

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist; Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist; Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist; Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew; Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me."
- Pastor Martin Niemöller
You are being ridiculous with these delusional projections.

Is it our basic right to illegally import or synthesize illegal anabolic steroids and then blatantly and illegally market them under the guise of nutritional supplements with complete disregard to DSHEA?

How exactly have you engage in defending us and others from these fantasy conjectures aside from indulging in their fantasy and regurgitating the same either in quote or theory.

They're coming for you....speak out!?:think:
 
HEY F.Y.I DUDES I JUST SAW WHERE ONE SUPP WEBSITE JUST RAISED THEIR MASS TABS TO $100 A BOTTLE
 
HEADS UP!! SOMEONE KNOWS SOMETHING WE DONT, START STALKIN UP ON MASS TABS NOW IF YOU WERE WANTING SOME FELLAS!
 
You are being ridiculous with these delusional projections.

Is it our basic right to illegally import or synthesize illegal anabolic steroids and then blatantly and illegally market them under the guise of nutritional supplements with complete disregard to DSHEA?

How exactly have you engage in defending us and others from these fantasy conjectures aside from indulging in their fantasy and regurgitating the same either in quote or theory.

They're coming for you....speak out!?:think:

You have a very good, and honest mans point sir.

But the issue is it should not be illegal in the first place...There are safe ways to have it legal, and control it while actually making some coin for the local governments.

Instead because of certain organizations that need to make money, it is illegal. I will also credit some of it to the sheer stupidity of the masses...

Its like taxes in their current state are beyond unconstitutional and our government has show itself unworthy of a leadership position. We cant do a damn thing about it. Voting wont change anything for those in power, and speaking out either gets you censored or killed.

Its the fact that this government, HAS NO RIGHT to be controlling things as much as it does. Its all about central money and wallets. If they cared about the public, many MANY chemicals and hormones would not be in the food we eat...

So it is a persons right to reject unconstitutional "oppressions" labeled as "laws". Hell the president who set up the tax system the way it is apologized afterward for he knew he doomed the U.S. to a dark future.

Essentially it is a much, much wider issue than just the steroid thing. Its the fact that the worst criminals in the country are telling other people what is and is not a crime... and no one can do anything about it because it makes you a "terrorist" or evil, or a criminal...
 
You have a very good, and honest mans point sir.

But the issue is it should not be illegal in the first place...There are safe ways to have it legal, and control it while actually making some coin for the local governments.

Instead because of certain organizations that need to make money, it is illegal. I will also credit some of it to the sheer stupidity of the masses...
Propose the way that there would be safe ways to have it legal and control it while making coin for the local government.

Its like taxes in their current state are beyond unconstitutional and our government has show itself unworthy of a leadership position. We cant do a damn thing about it. Voting wont change anything for those in power, and speaking out either gets you censored or killed.
How can you go on about taxes. You are likely near poverty level income with the greatest tax credit and relief in the entire system. My very low-middle income, with property tax, mortgage interest, health insurance, medical expense and dependents provides for a very generous tax relief. My federal and state tax burden is minor to minuscule.
Its the fact that this government, HAS NO RIGHT to be controlling things as much as it does. Its all about central money and wallets. If they cared about the public, many MANY chemicals and hormones would not be in the food we eat...
Yeah, and these industries have a great record of self regulating. The supplement industry is a disgusting and prime example.

So, now, please tell me how pharmaceutical grade chemicals and anabolic androgenic steroids can safely be made legal and controlled and still make coin for the local government.

Then, please proceed to tell me about how you are being taxed beyond unconstitutionally.
 
Propose the way that there would be safe ways to have it legal and control it while making coin for the local government.

So, now, please tell me how pharmaceutical grade chemicals and anabolic androgenic steroids can safely be made legal and controlled and still make coin for the local government.

Local clinics in major cities where a client would come in and register. Upon registration him/her must be of a proper age(21) sign legal documents that would hold them responsible if they were to pass it on to someone else, etc. All the legal goodies.

Then they would attend a short 4-6 week course on the basics. Upon graduating the course, they are certified to access their desired wants through all clinics. The clinic would sell all the needs of a user. Needles, syringes, sterilization items, filters, other medical needs.

This would give some sports doctors, and endos decent jobs as well!

Initial requirements will be a baseline blood test of the basics. A short term waver for medical reasons. (such as if your taking a methylated item and get kidney disease during the time of A to the ending of B).

It would go on your medical record, that way if an accident occurred the hospital knows what would be in your system.

The clinic would also offer mid cycle bloods, post cycle bloods, anything else you would want as an option. Possibly do packages.

The proper PCT could also be given, in pharma grade and not in liquid research chemical form.

As a side note, the products would be all non UG lab, so they would be safe, properly dosed, and the right substance.

They would administer the first injection, hold you for a few minutes and see how you handle it(such as people who feint, or may hit a vessel or nerve,etc) and once they see you are ok and capable of dealing with self injecting you leave with your goodies!

They would keep record of your cycles, and your PCT so they know when your off cycle. They would also put in restrictions and regulations to space cycles for the body to recover properly.

As said they would have doctors on staff, ready for all possible steroid side effects. So if you have questions you could visit and pop a co-pay fee just for a checkup. Maybe even partner with local surgeons for cheaper gynomastesia surgeries or the likes by reason of always referring them to that doctor and such.

Since it is on record, the clients would be barred from sports for a duration of at least 1 year from the end of PCT of last cycle, or whatever they would deem reasonable for the system to be cleared and the body returned to a natural state.

All records would be kept private as such with normal doctors, save for a still private intervention of participation in any official leagues(not like your local flag football or anything like that, that would be up to your personal morality feelings).

So now a person has a clinic, with trained professionals, in their local major cities(Guessing 2-3 per state unless it really caught on). Access to clean safe gear. Professional help if something goes wrong, medical records so that any one treating them can do so to the best of their abilities.

And the local state can essentially charge a fee for using these clinics.

This is just a big rough draft of an idea that intelligent people could take, sit down, and turn into a fully functional workable situation. It would be just as safe and effective as a pharmacy is. And just like people are held responsible for the items they receive there(giving it to another, which is illegal) it will hold the same.

Just rough ideas though....



Then, please proceed to tell me about how you are being taxed beyond unconstitutionally.

The site to extract a raw material is taxed, then the material itself is taxed, from working in warehouses I know it gets taxed from sitting in there(no joke I was pissed when they came through and did it to the companies stock). Then it is taxed when it goes to a company, taxed when sold to the consumer, then if you die....guess what your next in line has to pay taxes for it....

Property taxes...you bought the plot, wtf is up with paying taxes on it every single year....Gun control taxes, forced registration and an increasing tax to own guns (essentially renewing em each year).

Social Security and other taxes....I have met many people who are bent over and raped my SS....I should have the right to put it into a personal account and have my own Security set up. SS is just an over borrowed from idea that made sense but doesn't work. Its a business. Hell we pay tax on cell phone usage...essentially tax on an inanimate object that is not tangible.

25% of my check goes to taxes...I duno what tax breaks you speak of good sir.

The only good thing that has been done to me is I get college aid. But only because both my parents have lost everything and are disabled and I barely make squat...so I count it as a crappy yet thankful trade off for unfortunate events.

Single young male=rape in taxes...duno why, if I had a damn kid I would be set, plus school would be free forever...( I know couples who have made it this way...)

None of the taxes we pay are functioning the way they should be, part of the reason we have such a huge national debt. And it will continue to grow.

I am expecting to get taxed on oxygen soon...(what about that carbon footprint tax or was that all hot air? it kinda never came back to topic).

And they want more taxes.....and more....and even though taxes increase, schools have to make cuts, the govt is making cuts, even though they are getting more $$...something is wrong. If my taxes went to competent caring people to benefit the betterment of the nation...I am down with that...if not...no.

hell I am afraid to make more than 25K without the rest being under the table...My friend makes about 33K, single male my age...Holy hell is he raped for taxes more so than I...

If you put in overtime, your taxes increase...I put in 123 hours of work on one check about 2 years ago...it was pitiful, they took a good 40% in taxes... Overtime we give ourselves to because we NEED that money, not so the government can rape me even more.
 
Local clinics in major cities where a client would come in and register. Upon registration him/her must be of a proper age(21) sign legal documents that would hold them responsible if they were to pass it on to someone else, etc. All the legal goodies.

Then they would attend a short 4-6 week course on the basics. Upon graduating the course, they are certified to access their desired wants through all clinics. The clinic would sell all the needs of a user. Needles, syringes, sterilization items, filters, other medical needs.

This would give some sports doctors, and endos decent jobs as well!

So really you want to just train people to use illegal chemicals without any regard for their adverse health risks or benefits.

Well thought out and very comprehensive plan you have there.

Initial requirements will be a baseline blood test of the basics. A short term waver for medical reasons. (such as if your taking a methylated item and get kidney disease during the time of A to the ending of B).

It would go on your medical record, that way if an accident occurred the hospital knows what would be in your system.

The clinic would also offer mid cycle bloods, post cycle bloods, anything else you would want as an option. Possibly do packages.

The proper PCT could also be given, in pharma grade and not in liquid research chemical form.

As a side note, the products would be all non UG lab, so they would be safe, properly dosed, and the right substance.

They would administer the first injection, hold you for a few minutes and see how you handle it(such as people who feint, or may hit a vessel or nerve,etc) and once they see you are ok and capable of dealing with self injecting you leave with your goodies!

They would keep record of your cycles, and your PCT so they know when your off cycle. They would also put in restrictions and regulations to space cycles for the body to recover properly.

As said they would have doctors on staff, ready for all possible steroid side effects. So if you have questions you could visit and pop a co-pay fee just for a checkup. Maybe even partner with local surgeons for cheaper gynomastesia surgeries or the likes by reason of always referring them to that doctor and such.

Since it is on record, the clients would be barred from sports for a duration of at least 1 year from the end of PCT of last cycle, or whatever they would deem reasonable for the system to be cleared and the body returned to a natural state.

All records would be kept private as such with normal doctors, save for a still private intervention of participation in any official leagues(not like your local flag football or anything like that, that would be up to your personal morality feelings).

So now a person has a clinic, with trained professionals, in their local major cities(Guessing 2-3 per state unless it really caught on). Access to clean safe gear. Professional help if something goes wrong, medical records so that any one treating them can do so to the best of their abilities.

And the local state can essentially charge a fee for using these clinics.

This is just a big rough draft of an idea that intelligent people could take, sit down, and turn into a fully functional workable situation. It would be just as safe and effective as a pharmacy is. And just like people are held responsible for the items they receive there(giving it to another, which is illegal) it will hold the same.

Just rough ideas though....
Oh, so you would rather just "train people to use these chemicals rather than invest the hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars required for clinical trials on the long term health effects to lipids, kidneys, liver, colons, prostates, hearts, lungs, brains and all the other "requirements" that these money grubbing pharmaceutical companies need to go through in order to be FDA approved.

What you proposes is a drug administration program. These drugs that are being banned and removed from the market by raids are drugs of unknown origins with unknown profiles and absolutely no health risk studies. What you proposes is ridiculous.


The site to extract a raw material is taxed, then the material itself is taxed, from working in warehouses I know it gets taxed from sitting in there(no joke I was pissed when they came through and did it to the companies stock). Then it is taxed when it goes to a company, taxed when sold to the consumer, then if you die....guess what your next in line has to pay taxes for it....

Property taxes...you bought the plot, wtf is up with paying taxes on it every single year....Gun control taxes, forced registration and an increasing tax to own guns (essentially renewing em each year).

Social Security and other taxes....I have met many people who are bent over and raped my SS....I should have the right to put it into a personal account and have my own Security set up. SS is just an over borrowed from idea that made sense but doesn't work. Its a business. Hell we pay tax on cell phone usage...essentially tax on an inanimate object that is not tangible.

25% of my check goes to taxes...I duno what tax breaks you speak of good sir.

The only good thing that has been done to me is I get college aid. But only because both my parents have lost everything and are disabled and I barely make squat...so I count it as a crappy yet thankful trade off for unfortunate events.

Single young male=rape in taxes...duno why, if I had a damn kid I would be set, plus school would be free forever...( I know couples who have made it this way...)

None of the taxes we pay are functioning the way they should be, part of the reason we have such a huge national debt. And it will continue to grow.

I am expecting to get taxed on oxygen soon...(what about that carbon footprint tax or was that all hot air? it kinda never came back to topic).

And they want more taxes.....and more....and even though taxes increase, schools have to make cuts, the govt is making cuts, even though they are getting more $$...something is wrong. If my taxes went to competent caring people to benefit the betterment of the nation...I am down with that...if not...no.

hell I am afraid to make more than 25K without the rest being under the table...My friend makes about 33K, single male my age...Holy hell is he raped for taxes more so than I...

If you put in overtime, your taxes increase...I put in 123 hours of work on one check about 2 years ago...it was pitiful, they took a good 40% in taxes... Overtime we give ourselves to because we NEED that money, not so the government can rape me even more.
2009 Tax Rates
Below are the marginal tax brackets for 2009. Tax rates progressively increase as income increases. The tax rates apply only to the income in each tax bracket range. Also, the tax rates apply only to taxable income. Various adjustments and deductions, including the standard deduction and personal exemptions, all lower a person's taxable income. Taxable income is almost always less than your total income.

Capital gains may be taxed at different tax rates. Capital gains tax rates are calculated separately.

Note: These tax rate schedules are provided for tax planning purposes. To compute your actual income tax, please see the 2009 instructions from the IRS for Form 1040, 1040A, or 1040EZ as appropriate.

Single Filing Status
(Tax Rate Schedule X)

* 10% on income between $0 and $8,350
* 15% on the income between $8,350 and $33,950; plus $835

* 25% on the income between $33,950 and $82,250; plus $4,675
* 28% on the income between $82,250 and $171,550; plus $16,750
* 33% on the income between $171,550 and $372,950; plus $41,754
* 35% on the income over $372,950; plus $108,216

Then your state taxes you a % of the Federal tax?

f You Didn't File for a Stimulus Payment

If you didn't file for an economic stimulus payment in 2008 because you weren't sure you were eligible, you may be able to file for a payment in 2009. Find out more if you:

*
Receive Social Security retirement or disability benefits
* Receive Veterans Affairs pension, disability or survivor's benefits
* Receive Tier 1 Railroad Retirement benefits
* Are a low-wage worker

Find Out if You're Eligible

You are eligible if:

*You or your family has at least $3,000 in qualifying income from, or in combination with, Social Security benefits, Veterans Affairs benefits, Railroad Retirement benefits and earned income. Supplemental Security Income (SSI) does not count as qualifying income for the stimulus payment.
*You and any family members listed on your tax return have valid Social Security numbers.
*You are not a dependent or eligible to be a dependent on someone else’s federal tax return. (The same must be true of any family members claimed on your return.)

How Much Is It Worth?

*Eligible individuals — between $300 and $600
* Joint filers — between $600 and $1,200
* With eligible children — an additional $300 for each qualifying child

The actual amount depends on the information on your tax return.

The information you post is complete fantasy and fabrication.
 
You are being ridiculous with these delusional projections.

As the link I've provided shows, many dead innocents thanks to botched raids to make sure people weren't using legally unacceptable intoxicants and other chemicals would disagree.

You call my view paranoid, I call yours ignorant. And the facts are on my side seeing as how the twentieth century was largely a century of genocides. Over 100 million dead at the hands of their own governments, and always preceeded by 'legal' assaults on basic human rights. Paranoid? Tell it to the 100 million plus lying in unmarked graves. And keep in mind many of those millions are here and died as a direct result of our government's resettlement policies.

Is it our basic right to illegally import or synthesize illegal anabolic steroids and then blatantly and illegally market them under the guise of nutritional supplements with complete disregard to DSHEA?

Yes. It's called freedom, and it's something were supposed to have in this country. Not freedom only so long as B5150 agrees with you, not freedom so long as The Children don't get jittery or ask inconvenient questions, not freedom so long as the FDA likes your marketing. Freedom so long as you respect the equal rights of others, period. DSHEA should not be a law, nor should there be a drug prohibition in general. People should be free to ingest whatever they want for whatever purposes so long as they're not harming anyone else or their property. Your appeal to the law is besides the point when the point being made is the law itself is unjust and incompatible with a free society.

How exactly have you engage in defending us and others from these fantasy conjectures aside from indulging in their fantasy and regurgitating the same either in quote or theory.

What would you like me to do, storm the DEA headquarters? I do my part, write letters to editors, editorials even, and served as an activist for some time on the issue of repealing prohibition. I've done more to change this world for the better than most, so take your snide comments somewhere else.

They're coming for you....speak out!?:think:

Speaking out was the only thing left to do since the government had already 'legally' disarmed everyone and sent their drones - a class of people I guess you have some affinity with - around to enforce laws against certain groups of people. I believe some attempt at legal disarmament also preceeded the Armenian genocide as well.

Your argument is simple; IT'S THE LAW. Which I guess means you're for enforcement of anything that happens to be THE LAW. Which means millions of people last century were legally killed by their own governments and you have absolutely not ethical or moral qualms whatsoever with those actions. Or if you do, then IT'S THE LAW is not enough, and so you destroy your own position.
 
As the link I've provided shows, many dead innocents thanks to botched raids to make sure people weren't using legally unacceptable intoxicants and other chemicals would disagree.

You call my view paranoid, I call yours ignorant. And the facts are on my side seeing as how the twentieth century was largely a century of genocides. Over 100 million dead at the hands of their own governments, and always preceeded by 'legal' assaults on basic human rights. Paranoid? Tell it to the 100 million plus lying in unmarked graves. And keep in mind many of those millions are here and died as a direct result of our government's resettlement policies.
Rhetoric.



Yes. It's called freedom, and it's something were supposed to have in this country. Not freedom only so long as B5150 agrees with you, not freedom so long as The Children don't get jittery or ask inconvenient questions, not freedom so long as the FDA likes your marketing. Freedom so long as you respect the equal rights of others, period. DSHEA should not be a law, nor should there be a drug prohibition in general. People should be free to ingest whatever they want for whatever purposes so long as they're not harming anyone else or their property. Your appeal to the law is besides the point when the point being made is the law itself is unjust and incompatible with a free society.
Me and millions of other Americans agree. Illegal Drugs...a victimless crime? Your desired freedoms are incompatible with good sense.



What would you like me to do, storm the DEA headquarters? I do my part, write letters to editors, editorials even, and served as an activist for some time on the issue of repealing prohibition. I've done more to change this world for the better than most, so take your snide comments somewhere else.
Good luck with that.



Speaking out was the only thing left to do since the government had already 'legally' disarmed everyone and sent their drones - a class of people I guess you have some affinity with - around to enforce laws against certain groups of people. I believe some attempt at legal disarmament also preceeded the Armenian genocide as well.
Groups of law breakers.

Your argument is simple; IT'S THE LAW. Which I guess means you're for enforcement of anything that happens to be THE LAW. Which means millions of people last century were legally killed by their own governments and you have absolutely not ethical or moral qualms whatsoever with those actions. Or if you do, then IT'S THE LAW is not enough, and so you destroy your own position.
Live in the present.

I have no issue with unjust actions and laws. The import and/or manufacture of illegal chemicals with the intent to distribute under false pretenses is the issue at hand. Your blatant and extreme rhetoric is irrelevant and fantastic conjecture.

Keep up the good fight!
 
Rhetoric.

Historical fact. Open a book or two you might realize that.

Me and millions of other Americans agree. Illegal Drugs...a victimless crime? Your desired freedoms are incompatible with good sense.

Very well then, please demonstrate how use of a drug per se leads to harm to you or anyone else and why it should thus be a crime.

Groups of law breakers.

Are you ****ing kidding me? Are you honestly suggesting the systemic extermination of an entire ethnicity is justified because they are 'groups of law breakers'? I only thought you were borderline before, now it's clear you've crossed the border by a good way already.

Live in the present.

"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."
- Santayana

I have no issue with unjust actions and laws.

Good. I hope one adversly affects you or someone you love, I will present this statement at trial so the judge knows he can simply apply the law as written no matter how unreasonable or unjust to ensure the maximum penalty possible under the law is applied. I'm sure you would want nothing less.

Your blatant and extreme rhetoric is irrelevant and fantastic conjecture.

If you think it is fantastic then I once more invite you to visit the grave sites. You can visit the grave sites of the innocents killed right here in the US recently thanks to botched drug raids. And be sure to tell their families that their loved ones deserved to die for being so scumy as to even arouse suspicion of dealing with illicit drugs, and for being so unthoughtful as to trouble the police by forcing them into doing a no knock midnight paramilitary raid of their home. Some people...

Keep up the good fight!

Considering it's obvious you believe in drug prohibition and that I'm well familiar with the general lack of intellect on that side of the argument, I will. And when drugs are legalized and the world fails to end and not every woman becomes a crack whore and no kids serve as look outs and pushers, I'll be sure to come to you and present you with every person you and your ilk subjected to the misery of prison and disnefranchisement for the sake of your borderline insane ideologies. I'm sure they'd love to meet you.

The disdain in which you seem to hold basic human rights in is disgusting. The arbitrariness with which you endorse the destruction of people's lives is a step away from pure malicious evil. The grip you seem to have on reality is fleeting to say the least, and your knowledge of history is apparently nonexistant. Your attitude toward the whole issue is repulsive to say the least. I can only hope someone with the exact same attitude as you makes your life miserable so I can hear the hypocritical whining about unfairness and justice when it's your oxe that's getting gored for no reason beyond the ignorance and abitrarily meddling if not mailicious nature of others.
 
Very well then, please demonstrate how use of a drug per se leads to harm to you or anyone else and why it should thus be a crime.

person gets hooked on drugs, person spends everything on said drugs, person start stealing and robbing to get money for said drugs, person shoots or stabs some one while robbing to get money for said drugs, person speeding away from scene of crime runs over child riding bike.
 
person gets hooked on drugs, person spends everything on said drugs, person start stealing and robbing to get money for said drugs, person shoots or stabs some one while robbing to get money for said drugs, person speeding away from scene of crime runs over child riding bike.

Person does this because drugs cost 10 times what they would without prohibition. Similar things happened during alcohol prohibition, and ended with the ending of the policy. Also, I asked about drug use per se. Please look up the addiction rates for all illicit drugs. In no case that I can recall were any above 30%. That means fully 2/3s of all the people who use drugs never do what you list, which means you've got a very weak correlation to begin with, and of the remaining batch of users who do use regularly or get addicted, I would sure like to see evidence that ALL of them or even a significant amount go down this road. Well over 80 million people have tried marijuana, if even a significant number of them ended up like this we'd be wading in corposes.

Or, put shortly, you're wrong, and thanks for playing. But please, keep trying to blame the affects of our policies on drugs on the drugs themselves. Drug use in and of itself does not lead to robbery and crime. Neither does addiction. Plenty of alcoholics in the world, but they don't have to kill and rob for their fix. Because it's legal, and they don't have to pay contraband prices. Which is not to say they don't do other stupid ****, but then one would have to show how prohibition actually stops such behavior, which it doesn't.

This is such a remedial argument I haven't heard it advanced seriously since 5th grade.
 
I have no issue with unjust actions and laws. The import and/or manufacture of illegal chemicals with the intent to distribute under false pretenses is the issue at hand. Your blatant and extreme rhetoric is irrelevant and fantastic conjecture.
You have failed to stick to the topic at hand and dredged up all sorts of irrelevant rhetoric and conjecture to support the right to do something regardless of what it is. To me that is a greater ignorance. Just because you should be allowed to does not mean it is wise or fruitful. The broad brush with which you are using to support rights is being used to advocate, in this case, the sale of illegal steroids by unscrupulous, greedy, deceptive and misleading business enterprises whose primary goal and motive is profit for self and has no conscience or consideration for the good of anyone other then themselves. Your points (or ideology) are valid but you are using them in defense of despicable, harmful and illegal business men whose sole intent is profit at your or anyone else expense. I'm ignorant?

Very well then, please demonstrate how use of a drug per se leads to harm to you or anyone else and why it should thus be a crime.
Per se? Cocaine and heroin manufacture and distribution alone are taking the lives of hundreds and thousands innocent yearly. Not to mention our medical and mental health care system from abuse of illegal chemicals including those that are legal such as nicotine and alcohol.

You have attacked me and wished me and mine ill will multiple times. Shall I wish your liver or kidneys fail for your ignorance. It's your right after all. Get a grip dude. While you're at it - pull your head out of your ass...per se!

Good day.
 
You have failed to stick to the topic at hand and dredged up all sorts of irrelevant rhetoric and conjecture to support the right to do something regardless of what it is.

Thank you for lying, your nature is duly noted. I never said you should be free to do whatever you wanted regardless of what it is. But that is the typical strawman argument people like you put up when people like me point out that the act of taking drugs per se hurts no one. I have said people should be free to do as they wish so long as they don't hurt others or their property. That is a far cry from "the right to do something regardless of what it is." So, perhaps you could explain to me why you people always feel the need to lie about and mischaracterize the position people like me hold? Is it perhaps because you know your views are disgusting, unsupportable by fact, experience, evidence, ethics, and morals, and so you need to paint us as something we're not so your arguments look reasonable by comparrison?

It's okay, you can tell me. I won't let the rest of your crowd know you let me on it.

Just because you should be allowed to does not mean it is wise or fruitful.

Whether it's wise or fruitful is not the issue, nor is it a proper subject for law. No one ever claimed drug use was wise or fruitful, just that it is not per se harmful of anyone else or their property. Once more, could you explain the need to lie? I promise I won't tell anyone, but I for one would like to know why, any time I propose that standard, people like you start comparing smoking a joint to rape and murder and/or making claims of endorsements of pure chaos and other complete BS claims.

The broad brush with which you are using to support rights is being used to advocate, in this case, the sale of illegal steroids by unscrupulous, greedy, deceptive and misleading business enterprises whose primary goal and motive is profit for self and has no conscience or consideration for the good of anyone other then themselves.

OoooOooOoo, those horrible people and their profits. The only reason they have to sell steroids under the radar is because of the legal policy you endorse making it illegal to sell them. Are you so disconnected from reality that you don't realize that? Of course they're trying to make a profit. So is everyone on the planet, unless of course I take it you work for free with only teh absolute well being of your fellow man as motivation? If it were legal to sell there would be no need to obfuscate.

And of course the same exact thing happened under alcohol prohibition, from watered down crap being sold as white lightening, to harmful chemicals being used to speed fermentation but not disclosed to customers, which resulted in them dying. However no one is tipping over anymore from a bad dose of bath tub gin because the laws aren't forcing the manufacture and sale of alcohol off the legitimate market and into the hands of people who may not give damn about quality and safety, and can't be touched by legal recourse for harm done to any customers for lack of either. You push the stuff off the legal market and then bitch and moan because thieves, con men and the generally dishonest are the only ones dealing in the stuff. Did you think the pope was going to get into the business when it's made illegal? What the hell did you think was going to happen?

But, interestingly enough, deaths from adulterated alcohol are almost unheard of, though people still overdose. Once more you look at problems created by your policies and blame them on the substances themselves. Absolute total pure nonsense.

Your points (or ideology) are valid but you are using them in defense of despicable, harmful and illegal business men whose sole intent is profit at your or anyone else expense. I'm ignorant?

Yes, because it's your policies that created those businessmen. Don't see many people selling bath tub gin anymore. Representatives from Budweiser and Smirnof aren't gunning each other down in the streets or pulling off mislabeling scams. Yet alcohol is just as addictive and harmful as any other drug. Gee, wonder what the difference is....

Oh yeah, alcohol is legal. So it's sold by legitimate dealers. It's made in legitimate factories. It's subject to legal quality control and labeling requirements. And if someone is harmed because of inferior product, the producers can be held responsible for that harm. Or, once more, you should stop blaming the effects of your policies on the substances. Steroids don't create steroid dealers. Demand for steroids creates steroid dealers, and whether they are legal or not is what determines who makes them and how they are made and distributed.

Per se? Cocaine and heroin manufacture and distribution alone are taking the lives of hundreds and thousands innocent yearly.

Because it's illegal... Make it legal and those deaths largely disappear. Deaths from hot doses largely disappear. Deaths from dealer/gang wars disappear. Addicts and abusers remain, but they don't have to rob and kill to support their habits and can at least be socially functional, and can seek treatment without having to worry about landing in prison with a giant sized **** up their ass.

Not to mention our medical and mental health care system from abuse of illegal chemicals including those that are legal such as nicotine and alcohol.

Which is only a problem because the government forces us to cover people through subsidization. You are very good at pointing out problems caused by other things and the policies you yourself endorse and trying to blame them on these substances. However you are wrong. But since you're on a roll why not also blame bad weather and the financial crisis on drugs.

You have attacked me and wished me and mine ill will multiple times.

And you haven't?! What the **** do you think is going to happen, no, does happen, to all the people arrested in accordance with the policies you endorse? Do you think the government puts them in the corner for ten minutes? No! They are arrested. They are shot and killed often enough during raids. They are fined. They are stripped of their property. They are imprisoned and therein raped and brutalized. They are saddled with criminal records that hamper them their entire lives. They lose their children. They lose their right to vote quite often. What the **** is all that, a day at the beach? You're giving me crap for wishing you ill, I have not wished upon you anything you haven't already implicitly delivered on millions with your support of existing policies. Millions. Over two million in prisons, more in jails at the local level, many more arrested and fined annually, homes invaded and destroyed, businesses shut down, families broken up, neighborhoods decimated by gang wars, foreign countries thrown into chaos and corruption, farms destroyed by defoliation policies, and on and on and on.

The policies you endorse have visited misery and death on millions world wide for decades. You have to have some set of balls not to mention a sense of entitlement that could fill a stadium getting all huffy when someone wishes the same on you that you have already delivered on so many.
 
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