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Hulking again with Havoc!

ndnguy85 said:
hey man start taking some glucosamine in liquid form. does wonders for your joints. my mom tore her meniscus last year..couldnt walk or get out of bed even. i got her to take glucosamine and helped her out a lot! she ended up not having to do any surgery or anything.

i dont know where are from or watever..but if you have a Sam's club or costco..

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this supposed to be faster acting than the pill form...i tried the pill form for a month a while back and it didnt do sh*t

Is there anything I can do at all? I dont think the glucosamine is going to work fast enough to continue cycle...i'm worried about loosing gains in pct! help!!!! this is SERIOUS pain
 
You can try ice packs like major league pitchers do, along with compression such as an ace wrap,.. but you have the right idea in goin' to dr's. Most of the time rest is needed though. I feel bad for ya, I hope things turn out well.
 
Hey man,
first off..looks like you work real hard and have developed a great physique. But i do have my concerns. Based on you pircure/user name, and ph experience i am under the impression that you are the same monsterboxx from bb.com. Which would also mean that you are 19. Now i am not one to judge, i started when i was 21 which i now thinkwas too young. Heck maybe if i had waited a couple more years i wouldnt have stopped growing at 5'9. But after having a gyno scare w/ lactation out of one of your nipps from your last cycle (which you posted about on BB asking for help..also stating that you would never take havoc again), testicle astrophy, and now extreme joint pains..dont you think that it is time to realize that maybe you should wait a few more years before trying again. At 19 those are some nasty sides to have to deal with when all you need is hard work and a good diet. Not to mention the other lasting effects steroids can have on your hormones and capping of your growth plates. (your not gonna get any taller taking roids)
Again, im not trying to bust your balls..i graduated high school at 130lbs (though i was a wrestler in good shape) so i understand the yearning to be big when you have been smaller all your life. But the consequences of taking roids at 19 are not worth it. As you said..they do you know good if you cant work out. And chances are that you WILL lose most of your gains via your elbow injury (i suffered a labrum injuryfrom an MMA match and dropped a ton of weight b/c i was out of the gym. Based on your pics you have the physique on genetics to pack on some mucle. But my advice (take it or leave it) is to nurse up that elbow, because you dont want to have a bum elbow your whole life...and stick to regular supps for a few more years. Not trying to hate on ya..or scare you. But this shits for real and there's a reason everyone on this board will agree that you shouldnt mess with the **** till at VERY LEAST 21.
 
i agree with thomps5 but ultimately you are going to do what you want to do. so i hope you do what's best for your long term health. you want to live at least 50 more years, so if you are going to jack up ur elbows at 20, it's going to be a long road.
 
Dude, thomps5 is right on the money. I'm 39 now and it's taken a long time and a few cycles to get where I'm at now 5'11" and 240 lbs. your elbow story is the same as mine. it's been hurtin almost as long as you have been alive. the only time it felt good was on a wet D-bol cycle. as far as the glucosamine and MCT oil, it works. it works pretty fast for me but maybe it's my age. in the past I pushed through the pain and I wish I would have let it heal. there are days when I cant hold my phone up to my ear. For me it seems that i can work around some of the pain with a good warm-up, bio-freeze and using cables in stead of dumbells. this is just my 2 cents, but do what you can to get it right cuz once it's wrong it stays wrong. you dont want surgery.
 
I appreciate all the info guys...trying to figure out what to do right now.


I must have you know its not the havoc thats caused this....I think its more of moving up in weights.

I broke my elbow IN HALF years back, then fell on it again! Its just been through alot and working out just worsens it. The dryness of havoc doesn't help.

I think it may be torn cartlidge thats jammed in there because it locks up at certain times and only hurts at certain angles. I can also here things popping inside. Once again its been like this as long as i can remember. Its just WORSE.

I'm going to get an MRI and hopefully a glucosamine injection so I can get back to weights faster w/o having to wait for the oral glucosamine to kick in. Meantime ill get back on cissus, which I noticed really helped last month.
 
monsterbox said:
I appreciate all the info guys...trying to figure out what to do right now.


I must have you know its not the havoc thats caused this....I think its more of moving up in weights.

I broke my elbow IN HALF years back, then fell on it again! Its just been through alot and working out just worsens it. The dryness of havoc doesn't help.

I think it may be torn cartlidge thats jammed in there because it locks up at certain times and only hurts at certain angles. I can also here things popping inside. Once again its been like this as long as i can remember. Its just WORSE.

I'm going to get an MRI and hopefully a glucosamine injection so I can get back to weights faster w/o having to wait for the oral glucosamine to kick in. Meantime ill get back on cissus, which I noticed really helped last month.
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Yea i've been there man. About a year ago i ran a cycle and my strength went through the roof. I jumped weight WAY to fast and my right elbow paid the price (i didnt have any previous injury as you do though). Bottom line is roids can give you the ability to lift more than your body (joints, tendon etc.) can support. Your strengh increases faster than your body can catch up..which can sometimes lead to injury or inflamation of past injury. You should be fine. Just do what the bro's here have been telling you. They know what their talking about in terms of the joint supps. REST YOUR ELBOW! Do small rehabilitation exercises for it (google!!) and take this as a lesson that sometimes more, bigger, faster is not always better.
 
liquid glucosamine works. oral i dont think as much because i have taken osteoflex ones..and i didnt feel much difference..but those drinkables one, i noticed difference especially with overhead tricep exercises.

u gotta do what's best for ur body FIRST.. like i have a herniated disc in my lower back and i have learned to accept the fact that i wont be able to do squats or deadlifts. the risk is not worth the benefit. theres plenty of other exercises i can do. i dont have to do the MOST effective one and risk paralysis or severe chronic back pain.
 
Bravoboy said:
reversitol will suffice for PCT for you? what did you use last PCT of epi?
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nolva...40/20/10...thats it

I had a minor nipple itch and thought perhaps a little lactation but I just read that nipples will excrete something if squeezed like a vice grip (my case)

I hated nolva and thought it was useless in the fact that it stomped my libido BIG time. I vowed to not do havoc again because I thought it was from shutdown...NO, it was nolva..

I have reversitol/ejaculoid/maca will be stacking all 3 for 5 weeks

Nolva on hand



I'm so mad...going to see sports med doc tommorw for MRI, I hope to god they will give me a glucosime/cortisone injection and I can keep the weights up. I dont think this is something that will heal...I believe its because the way my bones had formed after the break w/ the pins set up. Its just i'm having a really bad flare up again so I have to lay off.
 
PCT Day 2

Started pct yesterday.

1 reversitol AM, 1 50mg DHEA AM, 1 Ejaculoid AM, 1gram Maca, 10 Grams Creatine

2 reversitol PM, 1 Gram Maca, 1 ejaculoid


Getting MRI Today
 
Well, I love my havoc, and still have 2 bottles in stash. I am curious on this though.

How would an H-drol(the supp i've always wanted to try) and a bold200 cycle stack up to just a Havoc cycle.

While on havoc I had back pumps starting week 3 and then had some horrible stomach cramps but my PCT went great. Gained 17 lbs. kept 15 of it. not looking to gain but around 10 this time around. It was more of a mass builder for me than a cutter. thinkin about tryin H-drol but feel I need to throw somethin else in. Thinkin about a 6 week run of iforce bold/h-drol? any ideas guys.
 
PCT Day 3

MRI Yesterday. Waiting for results today. 45 mins in a tunnel with my arm above my head sucked.

Weight is flucuating...I think its water intake/dehydration of creatine.Weight settles around 184-185.

Besides the stupid ass elbow, everything else is awesome.

I feel 100 times better than last PCT this time. I really believe nolvadex sucks donkey balls. Its the worst **** you can possibly take. I feel SOO much better. Morning wood like a monster. Pretty acceptible libido during the day considering I just finished a cycle. Extremely vivid dream as well...which is normally attributed to test.

Only using reversitol, dhea, and ejaculoid + vitamin b6

I hope these products aren't masking low test levels and are actually working.


Maybe the half-life of havoc continues for the rest of this week and I haven't officially come off yet? I just feel too good to be true vs last time with the SERM only. Could be because I stopped at day 24, although I ran much higher doses (but then again I gained half of last cycle)
 
Glad to hear you're feelin' so good,.. you had great results mass wise,... keep us informed if any weights drop as far as strength. Great job!!!
 
im down in weight to 182...I keep flucuating...I really think this is water retention problems.

Nuts swinging low and feeling bigger.

Libido is spot on.

I feel like i'm ready to run another right now:run: need to keep focused on staying natural for a few months


im simply BLOWN away by how much better I feel.

WHY IS THS?
1. maybe I wasn't nearly as shutdown as last time. I didn't get the same explosive gains even at 40mgs that I had last time.
2. maybe the DHEA reduced the effectiveness for some reason?
3. maybe because I stopped at 24 days I never actually shut down?
4. maybe nolva is just the crappiest thing ever invented and I was never shutdown last time at all either

OR

5. perhaps thats actually truth to the theory that some havoc batches are WRONG. I've noticed alot of people at the exact same time I ran havoc last time had lactations, severe shut down, with explosive gains...there could have been some bottles with way to much in each capsule like the CEL P-Plex that contains 19.2mg instead of 15
 
PCT: Day 6

Really depressed.

Nuts/libido/nips fine....can't even tell its pct.

MRI came back.

1. Doc said I have Bone Edema at both bones where the elbow meets.
2. Need to take off 3 weeks of any lifting (they thought Id be hardheaded and wanted to cast me)
3. Found a minor osteochondral defect in which cartlidge is defected on the bone
4. Have to return for a CT-Scan which will show more view of the bones

What now?
This is PCT i'm going to loose everything?
Keep up the same diet?
Do cardio?
Legs?
Protein?

SHould I stop taking creatine which is a waste now?


Began Cissus, Liquid Glucosamine
 
Thats beat. Looks like Havoc worked good. Dont want to f up your arm perm though. Could you still do any other exercise that doesnt involve your elbow articulation? like legs, abs, pec deck & shoulder lat raise machines that use your upper arm for movement, forearm curls etc..?
 
gxr425 said:
Thats beat. Looks like Havoc worked good. Dont want to f up your arm perm though. Could you still do any other exercise that doesnt involve your elbow articulation? like legs, abs, pec deck & shoulder lat raise machines that use your upper arm for movement, forearm curls etc..?
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probably...ive just lost alot of motivation...i'm going to take a few days off get my mind back in the game and try to hit up legs/abs/ as of now i can't extend my arm above my head
 
PCT Day 7

Depressed , cant workout, feeling unpumped all the time...this is my addiction and its not being fed

Sides pertaining to cycle: none at all, libido is annoyingly high...not really too bad by myself but around my gf I just have a constant half-mast and that gives me an irritated attitude lol....reversitol is THE ****...and combined with ejaculoid its just stupid


Began taking 2 teaspoons per day of cissus starting yesterday...this is equal to 5600mg

Also started taking liquid glucosamine...2000mg twice per day started sunday.

My elbow actually feels a HELL of alot better...ive been icing the **** out of it, I can actually extend my tricep above my head now.
 
Kewl! I ordered some cissus the other day, glad to hear you're feelin' better bone wise.
I would say try to keep working legs and whatever you can do cardio wise.
I also will be using reversitol after my current epi run,... glad to hear good things.
Just keep your head up big guy!!!
 
bonscott said:
Kewl! I ordered some cissus the other day, glad to hear you're feelin' better bone wise.
I would say try to keep working legs and whatever you can do cardio wise.
I also will be using reversitol after my current epi run,... glad to hear good things.
Just keep your head up big guy!!!
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thanks man,

I'm not doing any cardio for a little while until I can lift seriously. I think without lifting cardio is just going to eat away my muscles
 
Day 9 PCT

Down to taking 2pill/day now. Feel fine.

MRI/CT-Scan Conclusions:
1. Permanent, unhealable minor fracture in elbow that will not fill in. (this is result from inproper healing when I broke it at 4yrs/old)

2. rough damaged cartlidge in the joint.

Doctor said the cardlidge is causing my bones to swell under stress of lifting weight which in turn causes the locking and pain. Continues swelling and pain will cause damage and in 15yrs more than likely need a replacement joint.

I can continue to lift as long as I don't feel pain from cartlidge. Will be minimizing dumbell and overhead extensions (which causes the problem I guess)

Cissus seemed to cure the pain better then ever in my life but when I went off the SuperCissusRX it came back immediately making me think cissus is just a pain killer/masker and not a joint helper??? Any comments?

Weight fluctuates between 180-183. This is with nothing in my body. No creatine or water.
 
Day 12 PCT

Feel great. Libido is high. Feel like I could just quit PCT now...I feel more than recovered.

The elbow feels much much better. I've been off for about 11 days now, I'm going to hit up the gym tommorrow and see what I can do (easing into things).

I don't feel like i've lost too much muslce mass, but definitely my arms looks smaller/less pumped feeling.

Energy isn't as high as usual because I haven't been working out/cardio at all.

Taking cissus in high dosages twice / day along with liquid glucosamine.
 
Day 14 PCT

Feeling Elated!

Hit the gym for the first time. Ive been triple dosing cissus and glucosamine, along with lots of fish oil and icing the elbow.

PR's! More power than on havoc...probably because the lack of pain!

195x5, 205x10 (pr) 215x9 (pr) 225x4 (never after previous sets) BB Bench

70x10, 60x10, 60x10, 35x10x10x10x10 (superset) Incline DB
30lbs Kick Backs, 20lbs lying kickbacks
15 dips two sets
lots of pushups between sets

Weight: 181lbs :( I think its mostly water that I lost from getting off havoc because my strength is higher. However, endurance, mentally and physically is much lower.

Downsides:
Raw strength is the same but endurance way way down
Way less pump
Dropped 3.5lbs


Sides: Absolutely nothing. Sex drive, mood, everything perfect. Elbow is tremendously better.. I think I jumped in to soon because it aches a little feels sharp inside again but should bounce back tomorrow

Jogging my mind about wet compounds now...havoc dryness killed my joints!

----- Planning out a future P-Plex. 20/30/30/30 w/ Toremifene and Reversitol now! ;) ;) should be joint friendly
 
Take some time,... a man's gotta know his limitations!!!
 
Day 15 PCT

F*cking insane dreams everytime I hit the pillow, be it a ten minute nap or all night, I remember every dream to its full extent...and they are so freaking crazy...

Last night I dreamed that I was in a class room being taught by this hot russian teacher and a terrorist walked in and chopped her head off as she was getting naked. :rant: I must attribute this to ALOT of natural test coming back? Maybe i'm way more than recovered maybe not?

Elbow:
Feels much better today than last night after the workout. I think ill switch my m-w-f so that its in the order of chest, back, shoulders...that way the "pressing" days have 4 rest days in between for the elbow.

Thoughts about havoc this go around:
Not even close to last go around in terms of impressiveness and results. Had to run much more for the same effectiveness. 40mg felt like 20mg last time. Never had any painful backpump/any sides. And my elbow prevented me from making any real strength/weight gains. So overall, i'm very disappointed with this cycle. I'm 182 give or take...so only a solid 4-5lbs.

Plan on getting a blood test, if numbers turn out right ill wait a few months and jump onto phera-plex. The wetness should help the joints. I'm dissappointed that I wont hit my 200lb mark by january...although that would be +50lbs in a year..i wont complain with 35!
 
35 pounds in 1 year is phenomenal,... take some time to do the natural thing,.. you'll thank yourself later. Don't become a methyl addict. You've made great progress,.. all things in time.
 
yeah! You did a hell of a run as far as I've been reading... Sorry to hear for your elbow! My wrist **** the bed recently and it's the most annoying ****ing thing not being able to work out! I know exactly what you mean... Keep it up man and you'll be right back where you want in no time!
 
How's pct coming? Did you use the nolva, or just stick with reversitol? Gains, weight, still falling??? The crowd is anxious and awaits more info!!!
 
Day 20

Elbow feels alot better. I've been able to do a back/bicep day and shoulder day just fine with close to the record weights.

Swtiched over to primaforce cissus instead of the 6 grams/day of the powder. So far elbow seems to feel the same.

Still running 2 pills/day of reversitol. No problems whatsoever. Sex drive is perfectly fine and still elevated...probably more so than before the cycle.

Note: Appetite has been REDICULOUS. Like almost twice as much as on havoc and on cycle is always more than off so this is nuts. I can eat anything and everything. I am starting to gain a little fat around my hips, but screw it i'm bulking to 200 before I worry about that.

Weight: 182-183lbs (only lost about 1-2lbs from the cycle itself...and id attribute this to the water/all day pump thats lost)


and to answer question above, I have not even opened the nolvadex box
 
Kewl,.. thanks for the update,.. I'm glad you're keeping the gains, and not stressin' bout a little fat,... you can lose that easily!!!! Great job!!!
I'm on an epi cycle now and am hoping reversitol does the trick for me,.. you're givin' me hope that I won't need a serm!!!
 
Day 24

Weight 181....down a couple pounds :( I think it may be some fat loss attributed to the cortisol reduction from running mega dosages Cissus. I look the same and feel a slight pump starting from the Cissus. What do you guys think? Muscle loss? Wouldn't make sense to loose it in 3-4 days with diet through the roof and strength up to par.

Down to 1pill/day of reversitol.

Sex drive has gone down considerably...I dont rage for sex anymore which is kind of hard to get used to...I hope reversitol wasn't masking some shutdown.

I'm probably normal again and just not used to it yet.
 
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