How stressful are methylated steroids?

[bell1986]

On your liver. I know it will vary from drug to drug.

If I'm being specific. I'm talking about. Epistane. The consensus is it's mild overall but still carrys liver stress.

I recently ran it for 4 weeks and I haven't felt that good for a long time. I'm on TRT and epistane was just a great addition. Kept my estrogen in perfect range and improved my mood and energy by alot. My estrogen is a b*tch on TRT. Fluctuates like crazy. Well it did until I found primobolan. I can now keep it perfectly steady. Aromatase inhibitors make me feel dreadful. Tried them all. Pharmaceutical + Natural ones.

How long safely could epistane be run? Say you were also running 1200mg NAC + 1G Tudca + Allicin (Garlic extract).

I have a bloodwork kit on route this week to test my liver values. I only ran epistane for 4 weeks as I'm still uncomfortable with methylated orals.

Anyone ran a methylated oral for a prolonged period?

My dose was 30mg split over 3 doses.

Thanks

 

[Ironpirate]

I've never heard anyone refer to epistane as mild. Epiandro is mild, I have used epistane many times 40-60mg daily. It always caused bp issues for me I preferred msten.

 

[Renew1]

IMO nobody should run methylated steroids for long.

 

[Hyde]

If your bp is staying good & you feel well enough regarding joints, acid reflux, appetite, energy, you can run it as long as you find your liver and lipid values acceptable.

I have heard of individuals running both Epistane and Dianabol for 6 months+. Dosage and personal response - as well as risk aversion - should be deciding factor. There’s a big difference in 10mg Dbol vs 50mg. Just 5mg Dbol actually destroys my digestion within 48 hours, yet there are people who have successfully used 10mg for prolonged HRT even.

If you want a specific answer from someone random on the internet: if your bloods are satisfactory now, run your next Epistane run whenever you’re ready and pull bloods at ~7-8 weeks in. If they’re bad, shut it down, but otherwise keep it going and pull bloods again in another month. I really don’t see why you would use an oral past 2-3 months, ever.

Anything over a week or so with most orals could be similarly achieved by a suitable injectable replacement typically (ex: you could blast test prop instead of Dbol even on a fairly short timeline), so you have to realize you’re taking extra longterm risks that aren’t necessary. People do get liver cancer from orals, besides promoting atherosclerosis & cardiovascular disease.

 

[Hyde]

One last point: EVERYTHING can have a longterm cost.

Just because bloods are alright for now doesn’t mean there isn’t longterm damage from the extra stress & inflammation. But the lower things like BP/pulse and blood values are, the slower it’s probably harming things.

 

[Smont]

For liver reasons, the dangers of orals are greatly exaggerated. But for more important health reasons you should limit there use to a short 4-6 week burst maybe once or twice a year.

To add something to this, unless you gotta step on stage looking gnarly or a pl meet theres no reason to ever use orals unless you just want to. I usually use them when I'm going for a strength pr or I got a very limited time to crash diet a bunch of fat off, maybe anadrol or sd for a few weeks before vacation, vanity reasons lol. But injectables can do everything we need outside of prep's and I'm sure many guys can still do preps and pl without orals too.

But liver toxicity, especially in short bursts ain't the reason to worry. Your heart is the reason

 

[bell1986]

I've never heard anyone refer to epistane as mild. Epiandro is mild, I have used epistane many times 40-60mg daily. It always caused bp issues for me I preferred msten.

I've got nanodrol their. Nano particulated msten. I was thinking of that after the epistane run. Well atleast 8-12 weeks after quitting epistane.

What's the results of msten like? Supposedly the nanodrol version is stronger?

I'm using 30mg of Epistane. I find this dose makes me feel good. Keeps estrogen in check and I've added 5 lbs of extra weight on in 3 weeks. I was stalled at my weight for a while so the extra 5 lbs is from the epistane. I'm on TRT also. I don't play around with my trt dose. 60mg twice a week.

I will do bloods and see how they look. Overall I feel great. Blood pressure is 110/70. Honestly can't fault it so far.

 

[bell1986]

For liver reasons, the dangers of orals are greatly exaggerated. But for more important health reasons you should limit there use to a short 4-6 week burst maybe once or twice a year.

To add something to this, unless you gotta step on stage looking gnarly or a pl meet theres no reason to ever use orals unless you just want to. I usually use them when I'm going for a strength pr or I got a very limited time to crash diet a bunch of fat off, maybe anadrol or sd for a few weeks before vacation, vanity reasons lol. But injectables can do everything we need outside of prep's and I'm sure many guys can still do preps and pl without orals too.

But liver toxicity, especially in short bursts ain't the reason to worry. Your heart is the reason

Yeh I wouldn't run orals all the time. I'm not sure what it is but they can feel really dirty. They can mess up so many blood markers and destroy your digestion.

Thankfully epistane has had zero issues so far. My blood pressure is perfect. I feel great and I'm adding mass. I've ran other orals before and I've just felt like trash during them. Horrible digestion and lethargic.

I am on TRT and could easily bump my test. My issue is my estrogen can start going crazy. I can't use aromatase inhibitors at all. They make me so ill feeling. I was using primo to dial in e2 but even primo can be a sledge hammer for estrogen. I'm very sensitive to primo. I was running 120mg test + 30mg primo and my estrogen completely tanked (My estrogen was high so that's why I added primo in). Everyone was saying to add primo in at a 1:1 ratio. That would have ended me.

I will do bloods and see how they look. If my liver is stressed I will cut it out. I am running tudca + nac so usually it keeps my liver enzymes very low.

You run epistane before?

 

[Hyde]

I still think you should play with Masteron some, especially since you like Epistane.

 

[Joshlm69]

Aren’t you quite wary of MPB if I remember from the hair loss thread. Epistane will definitely further that..

 

[Smont]

Aren’t you quite wary of MPB if I remember from the hair loss thread. Epistane will definitely further that..

Not for me it dont

 

[Smont]

Yeh I wouldn't run orals all the time. I'm not sure what it is but they can feel really dirty. They can mess up so many blood markers and destroy your digestion.

Thankfully epistane has had zero issues so far. My blood pressure is perfect. I feel great and I'm adding mass. I've ran other orals before and I've just felt like trash during them. Horrible digestion and lethargic.

I am on TRT and could easily bump my test. My issue is my estrogen can start going crazy. I can't use aromatase inhibitors at all. They make me so ill feeling. I was using primo to dial in e2 but even primo can be a sledge hammer for estrogen. I'm very sensitive to primo. I was running 120mg test + 30mg primo and my estrogen completely tanked (My estrogen was high so that's why I added primo in). Everyone was saying to add primo in at a 1:1 ratio. That would have ended me.

I will do bloods and see how they look. If my liver is stressed I will cut it out. I am running tudca + nac so usually it keeps my liver enzymes very low.

You run epistane before?

Epistane is probably my second favorite.

I second hyde's statement to Masterson. The 2 treat me very differently but I love masteron too. Honestly I like dhts around the board.

You mentioned ratios, I like to tell ppl not to follow someone else "ratio" find what works for you and I wouldnt start at 1:1 unless your not going past trt I'd say do mast or primo about 1/2 your test to start unless your very estrogen sensitive

 

[bell1986]

Epistane is probably my second favorite.

I second hyde's statement to Masterson. The 2 treat me very differently but I love masteron too. Honestly I like dhts around the board.

You mentioned ratios, I like to tell ppl not to follow someone else "ratio" find what works for you and I wouldnt start at 1:1 unless your not going past trt I'd say do mast or primo about 1/2 your test to start unless your very estrogen sensitive

Yeh I made the mistake of doing a 1:1 ratio the first ever time experimenting with primo. Crashed my estrogen and took about 6 weeks to climb again. Never again. Such a horrible time.

I don't use primo when using epistane. Epistane definitely has AI properties. I've got bloodwork showing it's keeping my estrogen in range.

Masteron. I have a vial of it their. I'm sure I got it chucked in with an order. I've never really experimented with it.

What's the benefits of it?

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

Epistane is probably my second favorite.

I second hyde's statement to Masterson. The 2 treat me very differently but I love masteron too. Honestly I like dhts around the board.

You mentioned ratios, I like to tell ppl not to follow someone else "ratio" find what works for you and I wouldnt start at 1:1 unless your not going past trt I'd say do mast or primo about 1/2 your test to start unless your very estrogen sensitive

3rd party info I got from watching “Bro Chat” on YouTube w Fouad and Co. he had Mike Isratel on and he is prepping for a show prob 10 days out by now as the video is a week old etc but this goes to @Smont ’s point of find out what works for you. He is running this
Test e or c I forget 100mg/wk
Primo 800mg/wk
Tren 100mg/wk
Anavar 100mg/day

1700mg total for week and I know you are not trying to get your pro card but the 100 of test clearly makes him aromatise enough that 800mg Primo offsets that

there is no “cookie cutter” formula.

 

[Smont]

3rd party info I got from watching “Bro Chat” on YouTube w Fouad and Co. he had Mike Isratel on and he is prepping for a show prob 10 days out by now as the video is a week old etc but this goes to @Smont ’s point of find out what works for you. He is running this
Test e or c I forget 100mg/wk
Primo 800mg/wk
Tren 100mg/wk
Anavar 100mg/day

1700mg total for week and I know you are not trying to get your pro card but the 100 of test clearly makes him aromatise enough that 800mg Primo offsets that

there is no “cookie cutter” formula.

Things are a little different when tren is involved. Some guys cant crash there estrogen while on tren. I know it shows up as estrogen on some tests but I dont fully understand it.

The point I'm making, or at least to my understanding, if he removed his tren he may experience something very different with all other doses staying the same.

But to also further your point, oldschool contest prep had a few common cycles, Arnold made primo and var a popular stack with no test. That on paper would crash ppls estrogen but it was a fairly common cycle

 

[Hyde]

Things are a little different when tren is involved. Some guys cant crash there estrogen while on tren. I know it shows up as estrogen on some tests but I dont fully understand it.

The point I'm making, or at least to my understanding, if he removed his tren he may experience something very different with all other doses staying the same.

But to also further your point, oldschool contest prep had a few common cycles, Arnold made primo and var a popular stack with no test. That on paper would crash ppls estrogen but it was a fairly common cycle

And to piggyback off of that and add to the “different recipes for different folks” convo, consider Mike is less than 2 weeks out from a show. Him using 100mg test with 800 primo then doesn’t mean he had test dose that low 4,6, certainly 10 weeks. And you can be damn sure his off-season doesn’t look like that.

 

[Smont]

And to piggyback off of that and add to the “different recipes for different folks” convo, consider Mike is less than 2 weeks out from a show. Him using 100mg test with 800 primo then doesn’t mean he had test dose that low 4,6, certainly 10 weeks. And you can be damn sure his off-season doesn’t look like that.

Ya fo sho, if you on 2 grams of test and swap to 100mg its probably 3 months before your actually on 100

 

[Hyde]

Yeh I made the mistake of doing a 1:1 ratio the first ever time experimenting with primo. Crashed my estrogen and took about 6 weeks to climb again. Never again. Such a horrible time.

I don't use primo when using epistane. Epistane definitely has AI properties. I've got bloodwork showing it's keeping my estrogen in range.

Masteron. I have a vial of it their. I'm sure I got it chucked in with an order. I've never really experimented with it.

What's the benefits of it?

What are the benefits of all steroids?

Protein synthesis, enhanced neurology, rbc production as mg rise.

Mast is a non-aromatizing DHT derivative. It’s much less androgenic or virilizing than DHT, so don’t let that fool you (like Epistane). It doesn’t lower estrogen as much as primo, but it does dry you out more and protects against gyno even better - if Primo also acts an AI besides an anabolic, Mast is more like a SERM and more anabolism.

Primo is the slightly better size drug. Mast is the better strength and physique drug. It’s also one of the most neutral compounds, besides primo, to add total mg with. And when you are refusing to raise test higher, you cannot take primo higher - but you might get to higher total mg comfortably with mast.

 

[Stacks1]

I've ran several methylated orals for 8 weeks with no issues. I personally wouldn't hesitate to run epistane 8 weeks. But everyone is different and not everyone can tolerate them. It seems the more cycles you run, the less people can tolerate orals. I started AAS later than most and run fairly moderate cycles, so I chalk up my ability to tolerate orals to that.

Obviously a methylated oral is a horrible choice to control estrogen long-term though. I think that goes without saying. But I wouldn't freak out over an 8 week cycle at a normal dose. Always make sure you get your blood work done before you start though. I tend to think a lot of people who have serious liver injury, jaundice, etc., from orals are the ones who don't get their blood work done pre-cycle and end up going into the cycle with already poor liver values. I'm not saying that's everybody but I think it probably accounts for some of those cases.