how much dextrose pwo

SwoleCat said:
Goes4, don't get into an argument here bro, not worth it. U know what I look like,
~SC~
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You need to reduce the amount of VAT.
 
You missed the point which was to have everyone do what works for him/her.

You saying that just because something works in studies, it's going to work for everyone, is a slippery slope statement. Again, it wasn't a bash against you, but you seem pretty defensive for one reason or another. Yes, pictures do give credibility, and I was unaware you had some, but again my comments were not at you, as I stated above, u must have skipped that part. I checked the pics section (where pics would be) but was unable to find them.
Perhaps you have a link, as I'd like to see......not to be negative in any manner, just to see, nothing more/less.

Just tired of seeing "study this, study that" when each person should just find out what works for him/her. Period.........

I won't come back, and I'll let the door hit my ass on the way out, hahha, I only came back here because 2 other people asked me to come back and read the replies. I already know you and I have our differences of opinion, and I accept that. I asked you what you used as your pwo meal, yes, because you never said, hence the p.m. Never did I bash that idea, nor did I disseminate the info you told me in the p.m. I just wanted to know that's all, and said I may try it one day to actually see how it works.......thought that was clear?

Negativity, yes, because you blasted goes4 for his signature and leaned into him for speaking his own mind. Then you throw around "education this, education that" and insult myself questioning my intelligence. Question it all you want, I didn't get to where I am from not knowing anything I can tell you that much. As well, I do plan on receiving my Masters in Nutrition, not that it's anyone's biz, but I'm starting that journey in about 2 months. As well, your "VAT" comment is totally a non-sequitor, and if you've seen any of my photoshoot pics, you'd eat your words. The pic below is not the only pic of me, but if you draw your conclusions on a person by one pic, just as you do by your "studies", you are either into flaming a person to be a jerk, or you're putting the cart before the horse.

Wrong again you say? Okay, well first off that was not my comment if you read my post correctly, and secondly science is NOT always right, and does not carry over into EVERYONE in real world application. If you think it does, well, keep believing that, it's no sweat off my balls.

Chill out man, it's gonna be okay, lol............you're too uptight......have a drink! :)


~SC~
 
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Bobo said:
Wrong again.

Theory will assume things work or don't work, science explains it either way. When things work there is a scientific explanation whether you understnad it or not. There is a difference between "theory" and "science". At least understand what your talking about before you post.


Context the same? You don't make sense again.
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What you just explained I already know, yet it has nothing to do w/what I posted...........

Yeah, meaning you cannot re-create an everday environment w/outside interferences/changes in some lab. If EVERYONE had the SAME conditions as in the study itself, then yes, but we know that is FAR from reality.

If science is so damn reliable, why do some methods work for some, not for others? Some acne cures work for some, but do absolute **** for someone else? Vioxx works to reduce swelling in most people, but for about 25% of them it makes it WORSE. Some respond to Effexor or Paxil very well, while for others it makes the depression condition worse or not change at all. These examples go on forever.

......real world application thus debunking science for whatever reason, that's my point. There is no "one way".

I never intended for anyone to get their panties in a bunch! Jeez people, let some air out. No worries "bro", I'm taking this site off of my favorites list so I won't be here to "challenge" (I'm not but u think I am), you any longer. This thread is the only one w/any new activity anyway, not much going on in the forum anyhow.

Again, my apologies if you think I was attempting to tear YOU down, not my intention. So, I believe it's best I just vacate the said location.

Regards!

~SC~
 
Bobo said:
You need to reduce the amount of VAT.
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Just so you know that I was paying attention.....
VAT-Visceral Adipose Tissue

Do you suspect this is caused from androgen use or to much dextrose in his PWS? :D
 
Yeah, you guys are great w/the flames!

You'll want to check out my entire photo album before you make such assinine comments. Better yet, check out the MuscleMag from a few months back with my pic in it, or even better than that, check the next issue and look at that pic. I'm sure it'll be highly evident your VAT comment doesn't apply.

:)

~SC~
 
SwoleCat said:
You missed the point which was to have everyone do what works for him/her.

You saying that just because something works in studies, it's going to work for everyone, is a slippery slope statement. Again, it wasn't a bash against you, but you seem pretty defensive for one reason or another. Yes, pictures do give credibility, and I was unaware you had some, but again my comments were not at you, as I stated above, u must have skipped that part. I checked the pics section (where pics would be) but was unable to find them.
Perhaps you have a link, as I'd like to see......not to be negative in any manner, just to see, nothing more/less.

Just tired of seeing "study this, study that" when each person should just find out what works for him/her. Period.........

I won't come back, and I'll let the door hit my ass on the way out, hahha, I only came back here because 2 other people asked me to come back and read the replies. I already know you and I have our differences of opinion, and I accept that. I asked you what you used as your pwo meal, yes, because you never said, hence the p.m. Never did I bash that idea, nor did I disseminate the info you told me in the p.m. I just wanted to know that's all, and said I may try it one day to actually see how it works.......thought that was clear?

Negativity, yes, because you blasted goes4 for his signature and leaned into him for speaking his own mind. Then you throw around "education this, education that" and insult myself questioning my intelligence. Question it all you want, I didn't get to where I am from not knowing anything I can tell you that much. As well, I do plan on receiving my Masters in Nutrition, not that it's anyone's biz, but I'm starting that journey in about 2 months.

Wrong again you say? Okay, well first off that was not my comment if you read my post correctly, and secondly science is NOT always right, and does not carry over into EVERYONE in real world application. If you think it does, well, keep believing that, it's no sweat off my balls.

Chill out man, it's gonna be okay, lol............you're too uptight......have a drink! :)


~SC~
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First of all I never said what works in studies works the same for everyone. Did you not catch the comment I made about people who can get away with using High GI? I never said High GI doesn't work which you seem to be implying. I said Low GI will work the same with much less chance of adipose storage. Thats the point. No more, no less.

This board is based on our members expanding their knowledge with credible evidence and we encourage theory. We would rather be innovators here than followers. We don't blindly accept everything and I fully expect people to question me with every post if they choose. All I ask if give me some sort of evidence to back it up and "testimonials" don't cut it because they are just opinion and I tihnk you know the saying that goes along with that.

You asked me specifically what my post workout shake was then said you were going to try after you had your recent pics taken. I just find it ironic that you say "**** studies, use what works" then procede to try what I recommend.

Negativity? I blasted him for stating that studies are "bullshit" and your knowledge is what counts before he went back and edited his posts. You can see the original in my quote. We don't follow that philosophy here. There is a reason things work and its not some magic beans you that give out. If you think your knowledege is the key, prove it with some evidence. Its simple a theme.

Masters in Nutrition? Bro you didn't understand what HSL or LPL was and didn't even know that 4-6g of glucose was the amount of circualting glucose that is present in everyone! If you want your Masters in Nutrition then you better get used to those studies you say "**** all" too. I question your intelligence when the only comeback you seem to have is "use what works for you". Do you not have any scientific explanations or evidence to back it up? Thats all I'm asking for here. Tell me why your way is better because I've done that. Testimonials means nothing to me. Answer that I will retract anything I implied about your intelligence. Actually its not intelligence I'm questionong, just your knowledge in this area. I don't think you lack intelligence at all. That WOULD be insulting.

I'll chill out when you refrain from bashing the board and the way we do things around here. I like it here and its my homeboard so yes, I'm defensive about it.


Pictures sometimes give credbility. I love how comparisons of two people take place when once person has been training for 10+ years and the other for 5. There is no substitue for time in the gym and I don't believe size equals knowledge. I know people with extremely superior genetics that can eat Mcdonalds all day and not gain one lb. of fat. Joey Galloway hits the drive through twice a day yet inclines 405lbs while only weighing 180. Genetics is tough to compete against. I have a LONG way to go to achieve what I want but I think in the time given I've done a pretty good job consdiering where I came from.
 
SwoleCat said:
Yeah, you guys are great w/the flames!

You'll want to check out my entire photo album before you make such assinine comments. Better yet, check out the MuscleMag from a few months back with my pic in it, or even better than that, check the next issue and look at that pic. I'm sure it'll be highly evident your VAT comment doesn't apply.

:)

~SC~
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Bro, just because you disagree with one person and may not like them doesn't mean you gotta flame the entire board. No dude, "the whole board" isn't one mind....so continue you're "board bashing" elsewhere...

You don't agree w/ someone fine, you don't like someone fine....don't include the whole world when you decide to take on one army, or you'll find yourself in a hole...
 
SwoleCat said:
If science is so damn reliable, why do some methods work for some, not for others? Some acne cures work for some, but do absolute **** for someone else? Vioxx works to reduce swelling in most people, but for about 25% of them it makes it WORSE. Some respond to Effexor or Paxil very well, while for others it makes the depression condition worse or not change at all. These examples go on forever.

~
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Because if you look at most studies there is a usually a small % that doesn't react as the others. The studies support a margin of error Swolecat. I suggest you learn this before you go for your Masters. Some people are insulin resistant, some people are not. Does this mean carbs work differently in those people? No. It means the degree in which it works is different.

BTW- just because it doesn't work doesn't mean science doesn't apply. It usually means there is a scientific reason that it DIDN'T work. You seem to think there are some magic formulas in which science doesn't apply. Sorry SC your not standing at the nexus of the universe in which the laws of nature are changed.
 
Rokdog said:
Just so you know that I was paying attention.....
VAT-Visceral Adipose Tissue

Do you suspect this is caused from androgen use or to much dextrose in his PWS? :D
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Androgen use more likely.
 
SwoleCat said:
Yeah, you guys are great w/the flames!

You'll want to check out my entire photo album before you make such assinine comments. Better yet, check out the MuscleMag from a few months back with my pic in it, or even better than that, check the next issue and look at that pic. I'm sure it'll be highly evident your VAT comment doesn't apply.

:)

~SC~
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I'm looking at the one in your sig in which you seem a little "protruded" and the definition in your abs is lacking. Maybe you were pushing out or something. Its just a little construcutive criticism. I have many bodyparts that are lacking, its not a big deal. Nobody is questioning the fact you have a great build so you don't have to toot your own horn so much.
 
Most people on this board are here to learn, and if people have different opinions, that's cool, but we've all got to be open minded......hence why i tried the low gi carbs post workout. So give me some credit for trying it out - Also i didnt piss about and change anything else in my diet, i used the same amount of carbs from oats instead of dextrose - my results in one month was less muscle growth and more fat storage - so i switched back - i became leaner, fuller, and started adding lean mass quicker. Also my training and lifestyle was very stable through out.

Physiology is physiology and my results with low gi compared to high gi were worse - remember everything was the same except oats for dex?

Heres the latest article i read recently that gave me more insight into pwo nutrition

Invalid Link Removed
 
Very disappointing thread. Two opinions that I respect on this board fighting it out like this was a certain other board that we all know. I remember the thread where you both had an awesome debate over this and to jack all of that up with this nonsense is disappointing indeed.
 
Don't sit here and lecture me how to conduct myself here. There wasn't a debate at all. There was me giving you scientific explanations behind why my way would work, then the other side saying "it works for me so it must be right". Oh and I forgot the famous "I'm big so I know whats best" arguement. Two classic points of view when one side can't back up what they say with any sort of literature. Lets not forget the credible "**** studies, they are bullshit" position. That brought an air of distinction here all itself. If people want to debate me then buck up and show me why. Jesus do I have to provide you with the literature that will help their argument? Its ridiculous.

Testimonials mean nothing to me. Its just another guy telling me what worked for them without knowing how it worked. A lot of good that does.
 
bigbrownbear said:
Heres the latest article i read recently that gave me more insight into pwo nutrition

Invalid Link Removed
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He's wrong on several issues. He needs to update his references as they are outdated. How can that be the latest article when he doesn't even include the latest Jentjens R, Jeukendrup A, Ivy JL, Kuo CH, or Barrett EJ studies?! Half the ones he references are from the 1980's! The closest one he has was Ivy 2002 in which it was concluded that the addition of a carbohydrate to a protein increased protein synthesis. What a revelation. This article is highly outdated and is what Supp companies use to push their products.

By Adam “Old School” Knowlden? His name fits well.
 
bigbrownbear said:
Physiology is physiology and my results with low gi compared to high gi were worse - remember everything was the same except oats for dex?
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Thats if I believed you, which I don't. All of a sudden trainee's of SC come to his defense. Coincidence? I think not. It was the same when DC didn't have a clue either.
 
If I didn't see these:

"Really, **** the studies gentleman......."

"real world results is what I am after not some bullshit study. Studies don't make me grow, but Swolecats knowledge did."

"I'm done here anyhow, nothing going on here but negativity"

"Yeah, you guys are great w/the flames!"

........then I wouldn't have a problem and would discuss the scientific aspect for as long as you want. But when your dealing with people that even refuse to look at the evidence at hand and just blindly accept what someone else says, then your going to have a problem here. Its a simple theme, back up what you say.

So far, nobody on the other side has attempted. Hell, here's a hint, Tipton.
 
DAMN!

You guys take a BUNCH of carbs! :eek:

For 4 months I've been putting 20 grams dextrose (and 2 R-ALA) in my PWO whey shake with excellent results. If I took 85 grams I would roll around.

In all honesty SOMETIMES I will take 20-30 pre & during wo as well but only if I'm tired or feel I need glycogen.
 
If you take 20-30 pre-workout, then there really is no reason to take it 20-30+ grams of high GI post workout w/ ALA. First catabolism and glyocgen depletion is barely a factor. This will cause 2 things to happen in the long run. With ALA you will increase storage of excess glucose since ALA also increase GLUT4 permeability in fat cells and circulating glucose will have an increased chance of being stored rather than used in glycogen resynthesis (as all circulating glucose does not get used by the exercised muscle). As I've said before High GI pre-workout is fine since you will basically use available glucose for fuel (but you should have a smaller amount mixed with some slower digestion carb source to prevent a crash) but for post workout its not necessary especially if you take it pre-workout. I'm glad you have had good results but they can ALWAYS be better.

If your eating properly there is no need for you to feel you "need glyocgen". Depletion take many, many hours, sometimes days (think getting into ketosis) so people caliming you are depleting glyocgen stores with a simple 1 hour workout are highly mistaken. Just some food for thought....
 
You could easily do 10-15g of dextrose w/ whey with some fruit for pre-workout. Post workout, anything from a shake with just milk (skim preferably) or some oatmeal or any low GI source. The choice is yours post workout.
 
Even better would be to drink half before and half during your workout. Of course the fruit stays before. It just depends on how detailed you want to get.
 
Bobo- What about someone that uses low gi pre and post workout? Do you see this causing a problem with glycogen stores and over saturating them? From your research would high gi be a better choice for pre workout?
 
Nope, no problem at all although you might want to consume it 45 minutes to an hour before, not 15-30 minutes. With High GI pre-workout, you simply might be able to get away with it as you do have an activity following. You just don't want to take too much because then you just crash in the middle of your workout. Thats why a small amount with some fruit would be ok.

I tihnk overall if your dieting properly, the need for high GI carbs pre wokrout isn't necessary because you should have ample amounts of energy anyway. But if you do use it, this would be the best time to use withouth risking adverse effects.
 
shoot bobo, this goes aginst the grain,most people say do it the other way
but it does make alot of sense what your are saying,im going to try it
 
many say to have a 2:1 ratio of dextrose to protein.....personally i find this a bit much. It all boils down to what your goals are..trial and error. i believe a simple sugar is necessary post workout with your shake. Then about an hour after shake you wanna get some good protein and a low gi carb into the body to further promote gains
 
massmongler said:
i believe a simple sugar is necessary post workout with your shake.
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Why?
 
I thought drinking dextrose was good with your post workout shake to trigger an insulin response. So that in turn would help your muscle absorb more of the protein
 
massmongler said:
dextrose will trigger a better insulin response thus allowing more protein to get to the muscles at a faster rate then withut a simple sugar
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LOL, bro thats what this whole thread is about; that is proving its unecessary....to each his own, but try to keep an open mind. ;)
 
massmongler said:
dextrose will trigger a better insulin response thus allowing more protein to get to the muscles at a faster rate then withut a simple sugar
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I suggest you re-read the thread and the literature on the issue.
 
Then you missed the point yet again.
 
Bobo, Its too bad when you are wrong, its tough huh.

I like the no post so he knows nothing.

Did you come from BB.com, you seem yo have the "god syndrome" like most mods think they are.

Now I know why people don't come to this board.

I guess I can't post any more, I don't have that many posts and my 25 years of lifting means nothing compared to studies.

Enjoy, someone has to listen to what you say...
 
In-Human said:
Bobo, Its too bad when you are wrong, its tough huh.

I like the no post so he knows nothing.

Did you come from BB.com, you seem yo have the "god syndrome" like most mods think they are.

Now I know why people don't come to this board.

I guess I can't post any more, I don't have that many posts and my 25 years of lifting means nothing compared to studies.

Enjoy, someone has to listen to what you say...
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Jealousy is a bitch isn't it.

If you have lifted for 25 years then show us that godlike frame of yours Mr. Know-it-All.

If you have SOOOOOOOOO much experience I guess science doesn't have anything on you right? Yeah we should just do what everyone was doing 25 years ago and call it a day right?

Take your meathead mentaility somewhere else because obvisouly you can't even carry on a scientific debate. You have to turn to the "i know what works because I'm old" syndrome. Thank god this board and its members have evolved past your ancient and ignorant ways.

People don't come to this board? I'll pass that along to 600+ active members that visisited today and 7k overall members. Thats about where we want to be. We don't want to be large like bb.com. We would attract more people like you who can't carry on a scientific debate and have to reort to Flex magazine for their advice.


I bet you grunt when you speak.
 
In-Human said:
I guess I can't post any more, I don't have that many posts and my 25 years of lifting means nothing compared to studies.
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I wish you would post more. It would be fun ripping you a new one.


You shouldn't be so intimidated by people that can actually interpret a study. If you need help you can contact me anytime. I'm sure we can "sound" through it.
 
I use wild boar blood. It is high in IGF1. Also helps rebalance my salts lost during the workout.
 
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size said:
I use wild boar blood. It is high in IGF1. Also helps rebalance my salts lost during the workout.
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I just eat a diabetic person preworkout...the insulin they shot up is all the boost I need.
 
The Conqueror said:
I just eat a diabetic person preworkout...the insulin they shot up is all the boost I need.
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LOL...I did a double take when I read that. Then I started laughing.
 
Is there anybody here bar bobowho is pro low gi over high gi when it comes pwo nutrition. I stated why high gi is better 4 me in relation to my body comp - even though i dont like the sweetness, so please state yours.
 
bigbrownbear said:
Is there anybody here bar bobowho is pro low gi over high gi when it comes pwo nutrition. I stated why high gi is better 4 me in relation to my body comp - even though i dont like the sweetness, so please state yours.
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Myself, I noticed less fat storage...I use low GI 1-1.5 hours pre-workout, and low GI immediatley post-wo. After 20 more minutes, I drink my protein shake. 2 hours later, I eat my next meal....no complaints...
 
Wow, this thread is a good read. Beneath the little tussle there in the middle there is some good info. And regardless of who is right or wrong, I plan on trying both methods...I'm currently taking in a high gi before/during, then one immediately after with creatine. If I can find a low gi carb source that tastes as good as Gatorade powder I'd be down for giving it a shot :)

Keep up the good work both Bobo and SC. In the midst of the arguments, I've learned a lot in this thread.
 
Ibench800 said:
Where can I get really really cheap malto and dextrose?

I used to take Biotest Surge...tastes amazing (insanely sweet), but its ungodly pricy. I mean $50 retail for 2LBs? You can get it for under $30, but thats still only 10 servings in that container. Now, I'm taking After Max by ON, at $22 or so dollars for 20 servings.
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Go to a local brewery supply store. That's what I do, just bought 16lbs of dextrose for about $12.

I just increased to 75g's pwo with 50g protein and I"m at 10% right now. I'm going to do this for 2-3 weeks and see where I'm at with measurements including bf. Once the info is gathered I'll make my decision as to whether or not it's beneficial to me. Also I've tried eating a diabetic person but the meat is a little tough. :o Later J
 
I definately prefer oats + whey PWO
 
According to the guys at T-mag, 0.4 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight and 0.8 grams of carbs per kilogram of bodyweight for post-workout. For me this figures to about 33 grams of protein and 66 grams of carbs. (2.2 lbs/1 kilogram)

I know the protien intake seems a bit low, but the article states that too large of a protien intake can trigger the release of glucagon which causes proteins to be broken down into glucose. This would defeat the purpose of a large dose of protein post-workout.
 
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