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How is anavar considered one of the least androgenic/most anabolic steriods when it’s a DHT derivative?

Honta

New member
Can someone explain?

How is it considered the least androgenic and somewhat hairsafe when it’s a DHT derivative?
 
What a steroid is derived from doesn’t make that much difference. Superdrol is also a DHT and I think maybe anadrol is too. Those also are very different from DHT, anavar, and each other. Being derived from DHT just means it can bind androgen receptors and won’t aromatize, but beyond that, the chemical changes made to each change the effects drastically. You can’t think of them as DHT, otherwise anavar never would have been created, they just would have used plain DHT.
 
No steroid is “hairsafe”, especially not DHT’s, and all steroids comes with sides. Anavar is considered “safe” in therapeutic doses but the doses we take to build muscles is not.

What I’m trying to say is, most steroids can be considered “safe” if you use them in low doses but all steroids become “unsafe” when you take them in bodybuilding doses.
 
BBiceps said:
No steroid is “hairsafe”, especially not DHT’s, and all steroids comes with sides. Anavar is considered “safe” in therapeutic doses but the doses we take to build muscles is not.

What I’m trying to say is, most steroids can be considered “safe” if you use them in low doses but all steroids become “unsafe” when you take them in bodybuilding doses.
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Yeah this "hair safe" thing is bogus. You can take precautions to preserve your hair - plenty of drugs out there to help. But no steroid is safe on the hair. Just like no steroid is safe from gyno. Just because a steroid may not aromatize doesn't mean it's not going to cause gyno. When you mess with AAS you're messing with your hormones, so there is no saying with certainty where your estrogen, DHT, etc will end up being.

So I agree that DHT derivatives might be harsh on the hair.... but so can test derivatives. Either way you're taking a risk.
 
Honta said:
Can someone explain?

How is it considered the least androgenic and somewhat hairsafe when it’s a DHT derivative?
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Posion is in the dosage, it's a weaker dht derivative. I actually think creatine raises dht, that's irrelevant tho. But take 75 -100mg and safety might go out the window.

Also, anabolic androgenic ratios don't mean anything. None of the AA ratings apply to humans, those were all rhodent models.
 
BBiceps said:
No steroid is “hairsafe”, especially not DHT’s, and all steroids comes with sides. Anavar is considered “safe” in therapeutic doses but the doses we take to build muscles is not.

What I’m trying to say is, most steroids can be considered “safe” if you use them in low doses but all steroids become “unsafe” when you take them in bodybuilding doses.
Click to expand...
Posion is in the dosage, take 2 Tylenol and your headache goes away. Take the whole bottle and yiu drop dead
 
By the way. Fun fact, there's some studies showing 30mg or less of var daily has almost zero side effects, once you cross over 30mg it trashes lipids and starts causing all the other possibilities of side effects
 
BBiceps said:
No steroid is “hairsafe”, especially not DHT’s, and all steroids comes with sides. Anavar is considered “safe” in therapeutic doses but the doses we take to build muscles is not.

What I’m trying to say is, most steroids can be considered “safe” if you use them in low doses but all steroids become “unsafe” when you take them in bodybuilding doses.
Click to expand...

I know it’s not completely hair safe

Just wondering why it’s known for very low androgenic when it’s DHT deritive. I heard something about how they make it makes it turn to more anobolic or something. Idk couldn’t really grasp what the guy was saying
 
Smont said:
Posion is in the dosage, it's a weaker dht derivative. I actually think creatine raises dht, that's irrelevant tho. But take 75 -100mg and safety might go out the window.

Also, anabolic androgenic ratios don't mean anything. None of the AA ratings apply to humans, those were all rhodent models.
Click to expand...

From everything I researched people say the most hair safe steriods are:

1. dbol

2. var

3. s4

4. osta

but I think non are actually truly really hairsafe because In the beginning your shbg gets crushed

it isn’t until you’re suppressed that it becomes hairsafe (I think)

It’s the a period of time between when your shbg gers crushed and before you get suppressed that you got to look out for. But it only usually takes like a week or so to get supressed
 
Honta said:
From everything I researched people say the most hair safe steriods are:

1. dbol

2. var

3. s4

4. osta

but I think non are actually truly really hairsafe because In the beginning your shbg gets crushed

it isn’t until you’re suppressed that it becomes hairsafe (I think)

It’s the a period of time between when your shbg gers crushed and before you get suppressed that you got to look out for. But it only usually takes like a week or so to get supressed
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As far as I'm aware there's no evidence or even really any bioscience to back any of that up. And if you wanted to make a list of potentially safer on the hair steroids then npp/deca, eq and primo I would put as the top 3
 
Smont said:
By the way. Fun fact, there's some studies showing 30mg or less of var daily has almost zero side effects, once you cross over 30mg it trashes lipids and starts causing all the other possibilities of side effects
Click to expand...
This👆 I know guys that have taken 25 mg pre-workout for 6 months and no issues on bloodwork, to me it's not worth the money but to each his own
 
Honta said:
I know it’s not completely hair safe

Just wondering why it’s known for very low androgenic when it’s DHT deritive. I heard something about how they make it makes it turn to more anobolic or something. Idk couldn’t really grasp what the guy was saying
Click to expand...
I’m not really sure what’s your question and what’s your issue with DHT? I rather have high DHT than low.
 
Honta said:
From everything I researched people say the most hair safe steriods are:

1. dbol

2. var

3. s4

4. osta

but I think non are actually truly really hairsafe because In the beginning your shbg gets crushed

it isn’t until you’re suppressed that it becomes hairsafe (I think)

It’s the a period of time between when your shbg gers crushed and before you get suppressed that you got to look out for. But it only usually takes like a week or so to get supressed
Click to expand...

Many people would say quite the opposite about dbol. Smont is right though. If you want to go by what should technically be the safest on hair it would be 1) deca and 2) eq. After that everything you're playing with is fire in my opinion.
 
OP, are you already starting to bald or is baldness in the family genes? In general steroids just speed up the Inevitable. I don't have any baldness on my dad's side and very little on my mom's side. Dad is 71 with a full head of hair so I don't really worry about going bald. It's not really in the cards for me. So are you worried because you think steroids make everyone bald or because it runs in the family?
 
Another thing to throw in the mix, and I fell victim to this mindset. The normal shedding process for every person on earth is about 50 to 100 hairs per day, every single day. They fall out and grow back. Now on my normal day to day life I don't ever pay attention to stuff like that. But when I started my first cycle, or the first time I added masteron or winni, all the sudden I'm worried about my hair, so I start paying attention to when I wash my hair and I'm seeing like 10 or 12 hairs fall out and I'm paranoid that steroids are making me go bald and in reality it's normal hair shedding. Same thing the first time I got nipp sensitivity on a cycle, now I'm touching them and hyper focused thinking I got gyno when it was actually my shirt rubbing on them and me irritating them from constantly checking. I also think ppl mind **** themselves on deca and tren, there afraid there gonna get deca or tren dick and they worry so much that the cause some kind of stress induced erectile dysfunction
 
Smont said:
OP, are you already starting to bald or is baldness in the family genes? In general steroids just speed up the Inevitable. I don't have any baldness on my dad's side and very little on my mom's side. Dad is 71 with a full head of hair so I don't really worry about going bald. It's not really in the cards for me. So are you worried because you think steroids make everyone bald or because it runs in the family?
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I mean I’m a norwood 2.3 and thick.

my dads a norwood 3.3ish and thin but he’s also 67

also when I started taking a lot of creatine 2 years ago at age 25 I went to a norwood 2.5. I quit that **** and got back to a norwood 2.3 and more thickness with topical nizoral(a weak anti androgen)

I got curly thick hair so it looks like I got no hairloss. Also I was born a norwood 2
 
I was very confused and had to look it up

Anyway folks need to talk about hair pattern of their maternal grandfather based on genetics. Your daddy’s head of hair doesn’t matter. Or so I have heard lol.

Invalid Link Removed
 
Honta said:
I mean I’m a norwood 2.3 and thick.

my dads a norwood 3.3ish and thin but he’s also 67

also when I started taking a lot of creatine 2 years ago at age 25 I went to a norwood 2.5. I quit that **** and got back to a norwood 2.3 and more thickness with topical nizoral(a weak anti androgen)

I got curly thick hair so it looks like I got no hairloss. Also I was born a norwood 2
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A 2.3 to 2.5 should be hardly noticeable... if noticeable at all. I've never even heard it broken down into decimals that small before. There was a study on creatine and DHT which showed an increase in college athletes, however they had low baseline DHT levels so it didn't push them out of normal range. I think that's where the whole creatine and hair loss thing came about. But I have never seen an actual study that shows creatine causes hair loss, so I remain quite skeptical.
 
Smont said:
By the way. Fun fact, there's some studies showing 30mg or less of var daily has almost zero side effects, once you cross over 30mg it trashes lipids and starts causing all the other possibilities of side effects
Click to expand...

Is this assuming there's a test base in play? Or will that dosage not cause much natural suppression?
 
Smont said:
By the way. Fun fact, there's some studies showing 30mg or less of var daily has almost zero side effects, once you cross over 30mg it trashes lipids and starts causing all the other possibilities of side effects
Click to expand...

Maybe I'll try an 8 or 10 week cycle at 25mgs - 37.5mgs per day. I have 25mgs X 100 pills of this stuff, so I'll eventually want to make use of them at some point. But once I start with 25mg I'm going to want to jump to 37.5mgs... and then I'm going to want to jump to 50mgs... you see where this ends up.
 
Stacks1 said:
Maybe I'll try an 8 or 10 week cycle at 25mgs - 37.5mgs per day. I have 25mgs X 100 pills of this stuff, so I'll eventually want to make use of them at some point. But once I start with 25mg I'm going to want to jump to 37.5mgs... and then I'm going to want to jump to 50mgs... you see where this ends up.
Click to expand...
Ends up in gains.
 
Honta said:
I mean I’m a norwood 2.3 and thick.

my dads a norwood 3.3ish and thin but he’s also 67

also when I started taking a lot of creatine 2 years ago at age 25 I went to a norwood 2.5. I quit that **** and got back to a norwood 2.3 and more thickness with topical nizoral(a weak anti androgen)

I got curly thick hair so it looks like I got no hairloss. Also I was born a norwood 2
Click to expand...

If hair on your head is fundamentally more important than muscles to you, don’t use steroids.

The base chemical structure a synthetically created anabolic androgenic steroid is derived from does not dictate the final properties/effects. Superdrol is a DHT derivative, and yet it is less androgenic in effect per mg than either Anadrol or Anavar, both of which are DHT derivatives commonly used by females concerned about virilization from androgenic impact.

If you absolutely intend to use AAS with minimal hairline impact, Deca, Anadrol, and S4 are some good options to play with. Anavar, Tbol, and LGD as well. Superdrol obviously as mentioned. Dbol only in very low dose, in lieu of testosterone for a period.

Primo or Masteron may or may not be milder than testosterone per mg based entirely on individual response, and EQ will definitely be milder. But all 3 of these compounds typically require much higher doses than testosterone for similar effects in anabolism.
 
Hyde said:
If hair on your head is fundamentally more important than muscles to you, don’t use steroids.

The base chemical structure a synthetically created anabolic androgenic steroid is derived from does not dictate the final properties/effects. Superdrol is a DHT derivative, and yet it is less androgenic in effect per mg than either Anadrol or Anavar, both of which are DHT derivatives commonly used by females concerned about virilization from androgenic impact.

If you absolutely intend to use AAS with minimal hairline impact, Deca, Anadrol, and S4 are some good options to play with. Anavar, Tbol, and LGD as well. Superdrol obviously as mentioned. Dbol only in very low dose, in lieu of testosterone for a period.

Primo or Masteron may or may not be milder than testosterone per mg based entirely on individual response, and EQ will definitely be milder. But all 3 of these compounds typically require much higher doses than testosterone for similar effects in anabolism.
Click to expand...

And just to add to this... dosing and stacking matters. Once you start going into really higher doses or stacking a bunch of compounds, the risk/ amount of hair loss goes up significantly. The "hair safe" compounds are only "safe" if they are run at a low/moderate dose and solo. Once you start stacking or running them at high doses it changes how "safe" they are.
 
Stacks1 said:
And just to add to this... dosing and stacking matters. Once you start going into really higher doses or stacking a bunch of compounds, the risk/ amount of hair loss goes up significantly. The "hair safe" compounds are only "safe" if they are run at a low/moderate dose and solo. Once you start stacking or running them at high doses it changes how "safe" they are.
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Fantastic point!!
 
According to that scale I'm about a 2, I was probably a 2 since my early 20s and now at 37 and using steroids/trt for the past 3.5 years straight I'd say there have been minimal to no changes to my hairline.

My dad I would say is probably a 3 at 71 so it just seems that going by what he looks like in old pictures he went from. A 2 to a 3 over a course of 50 years. Seems like normal progression for hairless.

They say your grandpa on your mother's side is your genetics for hair but I don't buy that at all. He was bald by 40 and I have a full head of hair and I seem to be safe from hairless on Cycle.

If hairless is in the cards for you and yiur taking steroids it's gonna happen faster. Start saving for a hair transplant. If you put aside 50 a week aside in 3 years you will have over 7k in your fund, if by that point you need a transplant the money is there and by that point if you notice that your not going bald you got a nice vacation fund, or 7k for hgh🤪
 
Smont said:
According to that scale I'm about a 2, I was probably a 2 since my early 20s and now at 37 and using steroids/trt for the past 3.5 years straight I'd say there have been minimal to no changes to my hairline.

My dad I would say is probably a 3 at 71 so it just seems that going by what he looks like in old pictures he went from. A 2 to a 3 over a course of 50 years. Seems like normal progression for hairless.

They say your grandpa on your mother's side is your genetics for hair but I don't buy that at all. He was bald by 40 and I have a full head of hair and I seem to be safe from hairless on Cycle.

If hairless is in the cards for you and yiur taking steroids it's gonna happen faster. Start saving for a hair transplant. If you put aside 50 a week aside in 3 years you will have over 7k in your fund, if by that point you need a transplant the money is there and by that point if you notice that your not going bald you got a nice vacation fund, or 7k for hgh🤪
Click to expand...
I vote hgh...a vacation is temporary...muscle hyperplasia lasts a lifetime😛💪
 
Smont said:
They say your grandpa on your mother's side is your genetics for hair but I don't buy that at all. He was bald by 40 and I have a full head of hair and I seem to be safe from hairless on Cycle.
Click to expand...

Yeah I definitely do not buy it either. It's genetic but knowing where it comes from is all BS. I've seen guys who don't have MPB on their mother's side but still got MPB and vice versa. Hell... I know 2 brothers and the oldest one has all his hair and the younger one is bald. They laugh about it all the time. It's the genetic lottery. You don't know which side you'll get it from or if you'll even inherit it at all.
 
I looked it up genetics has a correlation it’s not a hard rule. Some MPB genes exist only on X chromosome but there’s also genes on Y chromosome that factor in.
Invalid Link Removed.
 
UnrealMachine said:
I looked it up genetics has a correlation it’s not a hard rule. Some MPB genes exist only on X chromosome but there’s also genes on Y chromosome that factor in.
https://www.forhims.com/blog/baldness-gene#:~:text=First, a disclaimer: there's some,male pattern baldness is heritable.
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Regardless if it comes from the X or Y chromosome (and I question this as I've also read the gene can be passed down from both sides) you still have to inherit the gene. That's why 1 sibling can have a full head of hair and the other be completely bald. When it comes to genes the conversation is usually around odds or statistics because there is no guarantee of who will inherit which gene from either side.
 
Stacks1 said:
Yeah I definitely do not buy it either. It's genetic but knowing where it comes from is all BS. I've seen guys who don't have MPB on their mother's side but still got MPB and vice versa. Hell... I know 2 brothers and the oldest one has all his hair and the younger one is bald. They laugh about it all the time. It's the genetic lottery. You don't know which side you'll get it from or if you'll even inherit it at all.
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Yeah, my friend sports a long hair and his brother has been bald from 20 yo or something.
 
Hyde said:
If hair on your head is fundamentally more important than muscles to you, don’t use steroids.

The base chemical structure a synthetically created anabolic androgenic steroid is derived from does not dictate the final properties/effects. Superdrol is a DHT derivative, and yet it is less androgenic in effect per mg than either Anadrol or Anavar, both of which are DHT derivatives commonly used by females concerned about virilization from androgenic impact.

If you absolutely intend to use AAS with minimal hairline impact, Deca, Anadrol, and S4 are some good options to play with. Anavar, Tbol, and LGD as well. Superdrol obviously as mentioned. Dbol only in very low dose, in lieu of testosterone for a period.

Primo or Masteron may or may not be milder than testosterone per mg based entirely on individual response, and EQ will definitely be milder. But all 3 of these compounds typically require much higher doses than testosterone for similar effects in anabolism.
Click to expand...

good content in this comment bro
 
KvanH said:
Yeah, my friend sports a long hair and his brother has been bald from 20 yo or something.
Click to expand...
Me and my dad have full heads of hair, my little brother who doesn't use gear has a very receding hairline but it's Bern that way since his mid 20's and never got worse, and my 1st cousin who has the same grandparents on this side of the family is completely bald. My mother has 5 brothers, 2 of them have full thick head of hair, 1 has thin hair, 2 are balding with the horseshoe. There all in there 60's and 70's.

Definitely genetics but the genetics are individual to each person. If the grandparents rule held up there's no way any of that I just said could have happened
 
Smont said:
By the way. Fun fact, there's some studies showing 30mg or less of var daily has almost zero side effects, once you cross over 30mg it trashes lipids and starts causing all the other possibilities of side effects
Click to expand...

It's odd how quickly that threshold is passed. I ran 20mg and hod no issues with labs, 2nd time I bumped to 30mg and my liver and cholesterol moved into high ranges.
 
kisaj said:
It's odd how quickly that threshold is passed. I ran 20mg and hod no issues with labs, 2nd time I bumped to 30mg and my liver and cholesterol moved into high ranges.
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This could be old bro science, but I remember people running Anavar way high like 40-60 just assuming that all UGL was under dosed? lol
 
Smont said:
That's not high, ppl run anavar over 100mg. 50 is a pretty standard dose
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I know we have our differences on how BBers dose today but I would say in today's world, 50 is extremely mild for a competitor. I am actually sitting on 50 tablets of 50mgs of anavar right now. Way higher of a dose than I prefer in 1 pill, so I'll have to cut them up but I'm sure most who buy them pop 2 or 3 per day. The last time I bought dbol the tablets were 50mgs each. I'm sure people pop 2 or 3 of those per day as well. I usually opt for the smallest amount but the doses just seem to keep getting bigger and bigger. I will never buy dbol tablets over 10mgs again... but the 50mgs tablets are always the first to sell out because everyone wants the highest dose. Some people claim you have to take 3 or 4 times as much as they did years ago because the quality isn't as good as it used to be when you would walk into a pharmacy and just pick up your AAS. I don't know if that's true or not... all I know is that they keep making the doses bigger and bigger every time I buy more stuff.
 
Stacks1 said:
I know we have our differences on how BBers dose today but I would say in today's world, 50 is extremely mild for a competitor. I am actually sitting on 50 tablets of 50mgs of anavar right now. Way higher of a dose than I prefer in 1 pill, so I'll have to cut them up but I'm sure most who buy them pop 2 or 3 per day. The last time I bought dbol the tablets were 50mgs each. I'm sure people pop 2 or 3 of those per day as well. I usually opt for the smallest amount but the doses just seem to keep getting bigger and bigger. I will never buy dbol tablets over 10mgs again... but the 50mgs tablets are always the first to sell out because everyone wants the highest dose. Some people claim you have to take 3 or 4 times as much as they did years ago because the quality isn't as good as it used to be when you would walk into a pharmacy and just pick up your AAS. I don't know if that's true or not... all I know is that they keep making the doses bigger and bigger every time I buy more stuff.
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10mg of dbol is 10mg of dbol weather it was made today or 50 years ago. If the one from today is weaker then it's not actually 10 mg plain and simple. A milligram with any given compound is always a milligram of that compound you can't make a better one mg or a worse 1mg. So if someone thinks today's drug are weaker, it just means it's underdosed or there doing something wrong.
 
Smont said:
10mg of dbol is 10mg of dbol weather it was made today or 50 years ago. If the one from today is weaker then it's not actually 10 mg plain and simple. A milligram with any given compound is always a milligram of that compound you can't make a better one mg or a worse 1mg. So if someone thinks today's drug are weaker, it just means it's underdosed or there doing something wrong.
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I agree with you. I am just saying that is something I've heard people say. I think the reasoning is simple though - years ago when you got your dbol and anavar from a pharmacy, you knew it was legit and contained the dose it said. Today you might have a legit and properly dosed product anywhere from 25% - 75% of the time.... but almost never 100% of the time like they used to. I'm sure plenty of us even got completely different compounds than the bottle has said. So the perception is that the stuff today is weaker (underdosed) because there is less consistency than there used to be. Therefore some people think that they have to run a higher dose. I could be wrong but I think that's why.
 
Stacks1 said:
I agree with you. I am just saying that is something I've heard people say. I think the reasoning is simple though - years ago when you got your dbol and anavar from a pharmacy, you knew it was legit and contained the dose it said. Today you might have a legit and properly dosed product anywhere from 25% - 75% of the time.... but almost never 100% of the time like they used to. I'm sure plenty of us even got completely different compounds than the bottle has said. So the perception is that the stuff today is weaker (underdosed) because there is less consistency than there used to be. Therefore some people think that they have to run a higher dose. I could be wrong but I think that's why.
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You just agreed with everything I said and just worded it differently lol
 
Smont said:
You just agreed with everything I said and just worded it differently lol
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Hahah... well yeah. I did agree with it. I was just highlighting the point that it's not really about AAS today vs AAS back then but rather the sources today vs the sources back then. There are plenty of good sources today but there are also plenty of terrible ones. And even the good ones can turn bad. Back then there were only good sources.
 
kisaj said:
It's odd how quickly that threshold is passed. I ran 20mg and hod no issues with labs, 2nd time I bumped to 30mg and my liver and cholesterol moved into high ranges.
Click to expand...

I’ve never heard of anyone having raised liver values on Var. I was running 50mg for 10 weeks and had labs drawn two weeks later. Liver values were fine, cholesterol was a little off.
 
JKVol said:
I’ve never heard of anyone having raised liver values on Var. I was running 50mg for 10 weeks and had labs drawn two weeks later. Liver values were fine, cholesterol was a little off.
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Dunno, it is a known side and I know others that reported it as an issue so perhaps it's less common, but doesn't mean it's something not to be aware of and watch. And it isn't like there was some severe hepatotoxicity, it was elevated enzymes, but regardless, it affected me.
 
JKVol said:
I’ve never heard of anyone having raised liver values on Var. I was running 50mg for 10 weeks and had labs drawn two weeks later. Liver values were fine, cholesterol was a little off.
Click to expand...
How many people's bloodwork have you seen on var?
 
JKVol said:
I’ve never heard of anyone having raised liver values on Var. I was running 50mg for 10 weeks and had labs drawn two weeks later. Liver values were fine, cholesterol was a little off.
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It’s individual but mine been elevated on Var, nothing crazy but still higher than normal.
 
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