How Hillary used Obama’s FBI to illegally spy and start a coup.

thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
You're right to be angry, but you're getting angry at the wrong people. Democrats have been speaking out since then. This isn't a new issue and it was liberals who brought attention to price gouging in pharma. And I know you don't like me saying it, but Medicare is socialized medicine. It's socialized medicine that we're forced to pay into, but it's still socialized medicine.

But you're right, there isn't money to cover what we have, let alone more. Medicare is already on track to run out of money and moves like Trump's tax cuts speed that up. I keep saying we need to cut our losses, pay out to seniors whatever is left, and stop collecting social security and medicare because I'm likely to see nothing or an extremely small return as a best case scenario. And you're going to hate this lol, but repealing Obamacare has negative effects on Medicare as well http://money.com/money/4662792/obamacare-repeal-medicare-why-you-should-care/
of course medicare is forced socialism, that is why it's so f*cked up. but make no mistake, for seniors medicare is not a entitlement.

they can't take care of seniors who have paid into medicare their whole lives but they think they can care for the entire population from cradle to grave-I call bullshyt.
 
Aleksandar37

Aleksandar37

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
we re talking about diabetes....it is a complicated disease[as I am sure you know]that requires proper care...immigrants are less likely to get to proper care thus making their mortality rate higher even than US citizens in a walmart.

you are big on immunizations[as am I]I wonder how many of those people walking across the border have immunizations?
There are 108 references in the chapter he posted. Which statistics are you talking about because I can look up the study to see what the population they used was.

I have no clue about illegals. That's why I'm for not messing with the legal routes as those require vaccinations, but if you threaten the legal routes, guess where they go.
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
over half die under 60...I wonder what percentage die who are already covered by medicare-over 65?

also a great many of those deaths from diabetes could be attributed to overweight and diabetes prevalence among US immigrants, and I read where 40% of los angeles population was born outside the US.
"Race/ethnicity: Certain ethnicities have a higher rate of type 1 diabetes. In the United States, Caucasians seem to bemore susceptible to type 1 than African-Americans and Hispanic-Americans. Chinese people have a lower risk of developing type 1, as do people in South America."


 
thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
There are 108 references in the chapter he posted. Which statistics are you talking about because I can look up the study to see what the population they used was.

I have no clue about illegals. That's why I'm for not messing with the legal routes as those require vaccinations, but if you threaten the legal routes, guess where they go.
table 35.4

the point is before we become involved with anything as costly as 'robust' medicare for all, including illegals, we have to stop the flow.
 
thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
"Race/ethnicity: Certain ethnicities have a higher rate of type 1 diabetes. In the United States, Caucasians seem to bemore susceptible to type 1 than African-Americans and Hispanic-Americans. Chinese people have a lower risk of developing type 1, as do people in South America."


what does that have to do with death rates?

who is more susceptible of dying from complications of diabetes?

last I checked there is a huge difference between developing and dying from....:)
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
what does that have to do with death rates?

who is more susceptible of dying from complications of diabetes?

last I checked there is a huge difference between developing and dying from....:)
I mean, there is a relationship. If you never get a disease you obviously can't die from it. I see what you're saying though. I'll see if they break down the data that way anywhere.
 
thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
I mean, there is a relationship. If you never get a disease you obviously can't die from it. I see what you're saying though. I'll see if they break down the data that way anywhere.
google is becoming more and more unreliable when searching for specific info.
 
Last edited:
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
what does that have to do with death rates?

who is more susceptible of dying from complications of diabetes?

last I checked there is a huge difference between developing and dying from....:)
This doesn't quite directly answer your question but I came across this if you're concerned with illegals glomming up healthcare:

According to an analysis of 188 studies published in the International Journal of Health Services, immigrants make up 12 percent of the U.S. population but are responsible for only 8.6 percent of healthcare costs. Undocumented immigrants make up 5 percent of the population, but are responsible for just 1.4 percent of medical expenditures.

That being said, women, low income individuals and non-whites do die at a higher rate from Type 1 diabetes than do white males, according to the chapter I referenced earlier.
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
It’s my understanding that the majority of our debt is from social programs.

Also if you take out things like suicide and car accidents our life expectancy in America is great in comparison to many countries.
IMO the majority of our debt is due to military adventures but earned benefits and social safety net programs run a close second.
 
rob112

rob112

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
IMO the majority of our debt is due to military adventures but earned benefits and social safety net programs run a close second.
No I mean Medicare, Medicaid, and social security alone is around 75% of all government spending.
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
No I mean Medicare, Medicaid, and social security alone is around 75% of all government spending.
True but you get some economic benefit from those programs, basically a return on investment. With military spending, you just get dead brown people across the world, there's no real ROI.

If it were a household budget it would be like saying "even though more of your budget is going to your food, housing, etc, your broke because you keep buying extra firecrackers."
 
rob112

rob112

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
True but you get some economic benefit from those programs, basically a return on investment. With military spending, you just get dead brown people across the world, there's no real ROI.

If it were a household budget it would be like saying "even though more of your budget is going to your food, housing, etc, your broke because you keep buying extra firecrackers."
I don’t really think the analogy is that great. If you cut the military 100% we still would go into more debt, those programs would remain unsustainable, and we would risk not being the strongest nation in the world. That could be problematic without even adding in a larger social program than all of the above.
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
I don’t really think the analogy is that great. If you cut the military 100% we still would go into more debt, those programs would remain unsustainable, and we would risk not being the strongest nation in the world. That could be problematic without even adding in a larger social program than all of the above.
That's an interesting supposition. I'll have to find some time to crunch some CBO numbers.
 
Aleksandar37

Aleksandar37

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
This doesn't quite directly answer your question but I came across this if you're concerned with illegals glomming up healthcare:

According to an analysis of 188 studies published in the International Journal of Health Services, immigrants make up 12 percent of the U.S. population but are responsible for only 8.6 percent of healthcare costs. Undocumented immigrants make up 5 percent of the population, but are responsible for just 1.4 percent of medical expenditures.

That being said, women, low income individuals and non-whites do die at a higher rate from Type 1 diabetes than do white males, according to the chapter I referenced earlier.
It's even lower in the study you cited. That population was from Allegheny county, PA, but the study itself didn't stratify for citizenship. I looked up a separate census and it said 5-6% of residents there are foreign born, but doesn't classify them as legal or illegal. Even if we assume they are all somehow illegal and all somehow have diabetes, it still wouldn't significantly skew the results.
 
thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
This doesn't quite directly answer your question but I came across this if you're concerned with illegals glomming up healthcare:

According to an analysis of 188 studies published in the International Journal of Health Services, immigrants make up 12 percent of the U.S. population but are responsible for only 8.6 percent of healthcare costs. Undocumented immigrants make up 5 percent of the population, but are responsible for just 1.4 percent of medical expenditures.

That being said, women, low income individuals and non-whites do die at a higher rate from Type 1 diabetes than do white males, according to the chapter I referenced earlier.
as complicated a disease as diabetes is it is rational to think that undocumented immigrants are going to die at a higher rate from complications.....

as for medical expenditures that study is irrelevant since spending is more relevant to age than any other statistic-senior citizens accounted for 13% of population but accounted for 34% of healthcare spending in 2010-i would speculate that percentage has grown since 2010...

my fear is that a more robust medicare for all is unsustainable, and once the system starts to collapse cuts to care for seniors will be the 1st place they go....this is very unfair since many young benefiting from the welfare for all will have paid very little into the system, not to mention giving medicare to undocumented immigrants who many will have paid nothing into it.
 
Aleksandar37

Aleksandar37

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
as complicated a disease as diabetes is it is rational to think that undocumented immigrants are going to die at a higher rate from complications.....

as for medical expenditures that study is irrelevant since spending is more relevant to age than any other statistic-senior citizens accounted for 13% of population but accounted for 34% of healthcare spending in 2010-i would speculate that percentage has grown since 2010...

my fear is that a more robust medicare for all is unsustainable, and once the system starts to collapse cuts to care for seniors will be the 1st place they go....this is very unfair since many young benefiting from the welfare for all will have paid very little into the system, not to mention giving medicare to undocumented immigrants who many will have paid nothing into it.
We speculate all day about theoretical situations, but the point is that currently citizens, some with insurance, cannot afford life saving medications. Nobody in this thread from what I can tell has said they want to cover illegal immigrants.
 
thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
We speculate all day about theoretical situations, but the point is that currently citizens, some with insurance, cannot afford life saving medications. Nobody in this thread from what I can tell has said they want to cover illegal immigrants.
from what I can tell nobody in this thread passes laws...the politicians who are proposing medicare for all are wanting to cover illegal immigrants.
 
Aleksandar37

Aleksandar37

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
from what I can tell nobody in this thread passes laws...the politicians who are proposing medicare for all are wanting to cover illegal immigrants.
That's not true. Most who want medicare for all only want to cover citizens. By claiming that what a few want is what they supposedly all want is just an easy way to turn the public against it. Pelosi's own words "When they say Medicare for All, people have to understand this: Medicare for All is not as good a benefit as the Affordable Care Act. It doesn’t have catastrophic [coverage] — you have to go buy it. It doesn’t have dental. It’s not as good as the plans that you can buy under the Affordable Care Act. So I say to them, come in with your ideas, but understand that we’re either gonna have to improve Medicare — for all, including seniors — or else people are not gonna get what they think they’re gonna get. And by the way, how’s it gonna be paid for?"
 
thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
That's not true. Most who want medicare for all only want to cover citizens. By claiming that what a few want is what they supposedly all want is just an easy way to turn the public against it. Pelosi's own words "When they say Medicare for All, people have to understand this: Medicare for All is not as good a benefit as the Affordable Care Act. It doesn’t have catastrophic [coverage] — you have to go buy it. It doesn’t have dental. It’s not as good as the plans that you can buy under the Affordable Care Act. So I say to them, come in with your ideas, but understand that we’re either gonna have to improve Medicare — for all, including seniors — or else people are not gonna get what they think they’re gonna get. And by the way, how’s it gonna be paid for?"
I don't see where Pelosi said illegals weren't going to be included...several of the presidential candidates have stated exactly that.
 
Last edited:
Aleksandar37

Aleksandar37

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Pelosi is not calling the shots.....and when she says for all she means ALL.
Keep getting pissed when Democrats talk about socialist ideas, while Republicans actually continue to put socialist policies into place. The propaganda is obviously working.
 
thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
Keep getting pissed when Democrats talk about socialist ideas, while Republicans actually continue to put socialist policies into place. The propaganda is obviously working.
I don't get pissed about things I have no control over. vent, yes-but I learned a long time ago that getting pissed is not productive for me.
 
Aleksandar37

Aleksandar37

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I don't get pissed about things I have no control over. vent, yes-but I learned a long time ago that getting pissed is not productive for me.
It's rarely productive for anyone!
 
thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
Keep getting pissed when Democrats talk about socialist ideas, while Republicans actually continue to put socialist policies into place. The propaganda is obviously working.
you want propaganda? try this on...I think the whole medicare for all is a negotiating tool-too many are happy with private insurance and would fight to keep it and democrats know this...what they are doing is putting medcare for all out there and then they will offer up a resurrected Obamacare which is their goal the whole time...even for me, I would prefer Obamacare over medicare for all-the democrats are the champs at propaganda.
 
Aleksandar37

Aleksandar37

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
you want propaganda? try this on...I think the whole medicare for all is a negotiating tool-too many are happy with private insurance and would fight to keep it and democrats know this...what they are doing is putting medcare for all out there and then they will offer up a resurrected Obamacare which is their goal the whole time...even for me, I would prefer Obamacare over medicare for all-the democrats are the champs at propaganda.
Maybe. I don't think I would say many are happy with their private insurance though. It's simply the only option and people settle. A lot of people don't realize there is an issue with the system until they or a family member gets really sick. I just want insurance companies held responsible for what people pay for and not making it such a pain to get reimbursed so that many give up and pay out of pocket.
 
rob112

rob112

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Pretty sure they both put socialist policies forward...it is around 75% of our spending without adding anything else at this time.

My biggest concern is these assholes crushing our economy. Even if not now later for my kids.
 
thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
Maybe. I don't think I would say many are happy with their private insurance though. It's simply the only option and people settle. A lot of people don't realize there is an issue with the system until they or a family member gets really sick. I just want insurance companies held responsible for what people pay for and not making it such a pain to get reimbursed so that many give up and pay out of pocket.
my mom is under medicare...trust me if more people knew how screwed up medicare is they would not want to trade in their private insurance to be on it. a lot of people I knew working at international paper were working past 65 mainly to keep insurance.

if it were a case of lesser of 2 evils i would pick the original obamacare over medicare for all with no private insurance...and you know how i feel about obamacare.
 
megadeth

megadeth

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Lmao stfu So deluded u cant tell facts from fiction, truth from lies, and literal reality from ur own schizophrenic paranoia 🤣

All ur doing is giving this forum and the good ppl in it a bad name
The IG report(one of many ongoing investigations) will be out in a few weeks and you will see he is right.
 
ax1

ax1

Legend
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
That's not true. Most who want medicare for all only want to cover citizens. By claiming that what a few want is what they supposedly all want is just an easy way to turn the public against it. Pelosi's own words "When they say Medicare for All, people have to understand this: Medicare for All is not as good a benefit as the Affordable Care Act. It doesn’t have catastrophic [coverage] — you have to go buy it. It doesn’t have dental. It’s not as good as the plans that you can buy under the Affordable Care Act. So I say to them, come in with your ideas, but understand that we’re either gonna have to improve Medicare — for all, including seniors — or else people are not gonna get what they think they’re gonna get. And by the way, how’s it gonna be paid for?"
Just send all of them to NYC, they cover all undocumented law breaking illegal immigrants with full health coverage. All you need to do is prove you lived there for 6 months. Im sure alot of diabetics can hold off that long, or have someone write a statement they have been there so and so long and whola! Send them to the Bronx first, they are the first to get their stolen health care cards for illegal first this summer. They conceal the names from the Fed too.

If they can pull off crossing the border, they can pull off crossing state lines.

I last saw my criminal illegal uncle in Chinatown 3 years ago and at that time he afforded better medical care than I do.

 
Last edited:
ax1

ax1

Legend
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
my mom is under medicare...trust me if more people knew how screwed up medicare is they would not want to trade in their private insurance to be on it. a lot of people I knew working at international paper were working past 65 mainly to keep insurance.

if it were a case of lesser of 2 evils i would pick the original obamacare over medicare for all with no private insurance...and you know how i feel about obamacare.
Just have her revoke her US citizenship and move to NYC.
 
thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
Maybe. I don't think I would say many are happy with their private insurance though. It's simply the only option and people settle. A lot of people don't realize there is an issue with the system until they or a family member gets really sick. I just want insurance companies held responsible for what people pay for and not making it such a pain to get reimbursed so that many give up and pay out of pocket.
the top 10 health insurance providers have assets well in access of $500 billion....I see no way the democrats are going to do away with private insurance, it just aint a gonna happen in my honest opinion!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: ax1

Ripple2352

New member
Awards
0
you want propaganda? try this on...I think the whole medicare for all is a negotiating tool-too many are happy with private insurance and would fight to keep it and democrats know this...what they are doing is putting medcare for all out there and then they will offer up a resurrected Obamacare which is their goal the whole time...even for me, I would prefer Obamacare over medicare for all-the democrats are the champs at propaganda.
That's quite possible. All of those polls you see CNN and MSNBC state that 70% of the US supports "Medicare for all" are all wildly disingenuous. What they all fail to state is that in those same polls, when people are told their taxes will increase to pay for it and that under some proposals they would lose their private insurance, the "support" then drops into the 20's and 30's for percentages. So, basically, the vast majority of people support ideas that could bring coverage to every US citizen, however, they're generally pleased with their private insurance. Ir, at least pleased enough to not want to risk handing it over to Uncle Sam. I feel that some sort of hybrid, regulated, opt-in kinda mish-mash system might be what's best for us.
 
Aleksandar37

Aleksandar37

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
the top 10 health insurance providers have assets well in access of $500 billion....I see no way the democrats are going to do away with private insurance, it just aint a gonna happen in my honest opinion!!!
Private insurance will always be around and I believe Bernie is the only one who wants to do away with it completely. The rest want it as is or some kind of hybrid system.
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Private insurance will always be around and I believe Bernie is the only one who wants to do away with it completely. The rest want it as is or some kind of hybrid system.
To your point, there is still private security one can use to supplement the police and private fire insurance, sprinklers, fire extinguishers, etc people use to supplement the fire department, heck, there are even still some private roads.
 

Ripple2352

New member
Awards
0
To your point, there is still private security one can use to supplement the police and private fire insurance, sprinklers, fire extinguishers, etc people use to supplement the fire department, heck, there are even still some private roads.
I see what you're saying but I dont know that that's a 1:1 comparison. In a hypothetical, if there was a hybrid system like an opt-in or something, if I opt for private insurance my taxes shouldn't increase. The govt is a crook so who knows whether or not that'd be an option, but if I opt out then my taxes shouldn't budge a damned cent. It should be as simple as checking a box on ones W4 or something, much like they do when they claim independents or something like that.
 
Aleksandar37

Aleksandar37

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
To your point, there is still private security one can use to supplement the police and private fire insurance, sprinklers, fire extinguishers, etc people use to supplement the fire department, heck, there are even still some private roads.
You don't even need to make the analogy. Some countries allow private insurance instead if you want it (although I believe you still get taxes removed whether you use the public system or not) and others allow private insurance to supplement the public options.
 
thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
Private insurance will always be around and I believe Bernie is the only one who wants to do away with it completely. The rest want it as is or some kind of hybrid system.
Bernie isn't the only one...the jayapal medicare bill is said to have 100 co-sponsors....but in fairness most democrats have distanced themselves from it-FOR NOW!!!
 

Similar threads


Top