How androgenic is Pheraplex?
- Thread starter Space
- Start date
liquid
Well-known member
Never tried it, but these may be of some use for you.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/89979-otc-hormone-chart.html
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/64820-designer-steroid-prohormone.html
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/89979-otc-hormone-chart.html
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/64820-designer-steroid-prohormone.html
Space
Member
Thanks for the info. But what I am wondering is how pheraplex compares to other AAS like say for instance dianabol.
landfill
Member
Space
Member
This looks interesting but can you interpret the results? I'm uncertain whether they represent anabolic/androgenic ratio or androgenic/anabolic ratio.
landfill
Member
Sorry,not very clear.first number is androgenic,second anabolic.
crazilyfter42
Member
Hell ya! I think its a much better option.
Space
Member
That's a pretty bold statement; say that on other boards and you would get flamed!
Why do you prefer phera plex to dianabol?
Apowerz6
Board Sponsor
I will say that on any board!!! And trust me I am on WAAAAY more hardcore boards than this one. PP gives me way more mass than water. Strength gains are insane, and the aggression and feelings of well being make it worth it. the only down side is the oily skin, and the mild smoothness.
Dbol= water gain, lethargy, and not much mass.
Dbol= water gain, lethargy, and not much mass.
crazilyfter42
Member
It may be bold but its my preference too. Its d-bol w/ way less estro sides and strength gains are similiar. For me p-plex acts similiar to test in a way. Strength, mass, rise in libido, well being, etc. Great all around.
Trauma1
Legend
I second that!
dan12
Member
Stolen from bigcat
the anabolic to androgenic ratio is based on the increase in weight in the rat Levator ani compared to the rat ventral prostate. Problem with that is that the rat Levator ani is actually the musculus bulbocavernosus, which is not only extremely sensitive to androgens, its actually androgen-dependent. Its not in any way, not even remotely, indicative of the behaviour of most striated muscles. On top of that, the ventral prostate weight is not an indicator of the androgenic component. it does not predict sensitivity to hair loss, acne and what not, it doesn't even give you a good indication of prostate problems in man. In fact the A:A ratio is just two numbers seperated by a colon that don't tell you anything WHATSOEVER.
comacho
Member
true that,
alot of these things you just have to try or go by what others are saying,,,which both can be pretty risky
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
last time i used Phera Plex it was 30/40/50/50 and i was disappointed. @ maintenance calories and maintained my weight, muscle gain was very low, fat loss was very low, strength gains were very low. Side effects 0, androgenic indicators 0.
Not planning on using it again. if i did, it would only be to bulk, and at very high doses. I had no blood pressure issues either. Even in week 4 my BP was barely above normal.
Not planning on using it again. if i did, it would only be to bulk, and at very high doses. I had no blood pressure issues either. Even in week 4 my BP was barely above normal.
dan12
Member
really?, Most say phera is a great mass building i was planning a bridge using phera but i may just try it out at a high dose by it self to see how it goes then maybe bridge into something else. i was thinking 45/45/60/60/60
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
Not everyone can handle those doses. I find i always can, but you should find out with low doses first.
Trauma1
Legend
Which brand of Phera did you use?
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
P-Plex
It's working but most AAS don't have a great effect on me, especially in terms of sides.
As i try more out, i just cross more off the list, they are basically useless to me as better compounds exist.
Trauma1
Legend
What compounds have you used and responded to? Have you tried havoc yet?
I respond VERY well to Phera myself, however i haven't used the P-Plex version though. I still have 4 bottles of the AX version. In fact, i'm about to start a phera-plex/1-T log on monday!
Check out the log in the cycle section if interested. Poopypants and I are doing a combined log. I'm using Phera-Plex (AX) and 1-T (Primordial Performance), and poopy is using Epistane (IBE) and 1-T (Primordial Performance.)
thesinner
Recovering AXoholic
Correct!!
So many people think wet = metabolizes into estrogens.
Nada.
Pheraplex is 5a-reduced.
To add to your madol > dianabol statement, dbol aromatizes into methylestradiol, which is a pretty potent estrogen. Estrogen is actually a good thing for making gains, it increases IGF levels and resensitizes your androgen receptors. Unfortunately, the androgen aspect of dianabol is (believe it or not) a lot weaker than pheraplex. The majority of androgenic effects from an androgen is due to any 5a-reduced metabolites, and the 1-ene prevents almost all of the formation of 5a-reduced metabolites. When stacked with an injectable, dbol offers some additional benefits due to the methyl-estradiols, but if you're going standalone, stick with pheraplex.
Trauma1
Legend
Very well said, bob!
Trauma1
Legend
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
What compounds have you used and responded to? Have you tried havoc yet?
I respond VERY well to Phera myself, however i haven't used the P-Plex version though. I still have 4 bottles of the AX version. In fact, i'm about to start a phera-plex/1-T log on monday!
Check out the log in the cycle section if interested. Poopypants and I are doing a combined log. I'm using Phera-Plex (AX) and 1-T (Primordial Performance), and poopy is using Epistane (IBE) and 1-T (Primordial Performance.)
I've tried Epi and a clone and both were the same. Better pumps, bigger veins. No strength gains. No weight gains. 30/30/40/40 and during week 4, up 8 pounds (looking fatter, desperately trying to grow) my bench press was no better than week 1. That's natural lifting at its worst... bad luck for natural lifting even.
Superdrol is the only thing i really respond to. I love it, i feel it right away, i was blown away by the strength and weight gain, it was far better than anything else i've tried in any quantity... nothing touches it. Everything else is crap.
This was original Methyl-Drol XT. Ahhhh i only trust the old stuff now.
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
anabolics 2006 says Phera is 187 androgenic component and Dbol's is around 50. They put SD at 400.
Compared to methyltest
Are these numbers inaccurate? i've never put much stock in the numbers because the whole thing never made a lot of sense to me... my personal experience doesn't reflect these arbitrary anabolic/androgenic values.
Compared to methyltest
Are these numbers inaccurate? i've never put much stock in the numbers because the whole thing never made a lot of sense to me... my personal experience doesn't reflect these arbitrary anabolic/androgenic values.
Space
Member
Compared to personal experience those numbers don't really make much sense because I am certain superdrol is far less androgenic than pheraplex.
I guess it really comes down to how your body responds. Superdrol for me was nothing besides incredible strength gains while pheraplex has been unimpressive in terms of strength, but has accompanied some significant hair shedding.
I guess nothing really compares to superdrol, it's the closest thing I have found to a purely anabolic steroid.
ImJ2x
Well-known member
In my experience, comparing Super to Phera, the androgenicity is about equal -- Phera increases hair shedding and makes me "feel good"; Super jacks up my aggression and libido (unusual, I know). Super is slightly better for strength, but Phera is slightly better for mass. (And I like the "mild smoothness" Apowerz6 mentioned -- it helps the extra mass look a little more natural.)
I'm currently stacking them both in a pulse cycle, and it's the best of both worlds -- I take the Super preworkout for the strength/aggression boost; and the Phera postworkout to really pile on the mass. I'm loving it.
[BTW: Phera gives me way more lethargy than Super -- another reason to use Super pre and Phera post.]
I'm currently stacking them both in a pulse cycle, and it's the best of both worlds -- I take the Super preworkout for the strength/aggression boost; and the Phera postworkout to really pile on the mass. I'm loving it.
[BTW: Phera gives me way more lethargy than Super -- another reason to use Super pre and Phera post.]
Space
Member
I've noticed more mass while on pheraplex also but I wonder how much of that mass is due to water retention.
In the first 2 weeks of pheraplex I was gaining 5 pounds a week and wondering what the hell was going on.
thesinner
Recovering AXoholic
Don't confuse anabolic with androgenic, or androgenic with the potential to make strength gains.
These numbers based on how effectively it makes its way to the androgen receptor, binds to it, and activates it. Remember that AR's in different locations often accomplish different things. I remember taking Mehthoxy-TST, which seemed to be uber effective for getting gigantic, red pimples above anything else (the ones that don't pop not matter how hard you try).
thesinner
Recovering AXoholic
Most of the water weight with pheraplex is going to be stored in adipose tissue, actually.
I actually had a ton of water weight from superdrol, due to its intense nutrient shuttling capabilities. Remember that for every gram of carbs stored as glycogen, 4 grams of water are stored as well. It's so crazy how much a single carbon atom can totally change the effects of masteron.
mesher
Banned
Same for me, i noticed the same gains, but they were wet gains.... Phera also made me lethargic as a mofo by the start of the second week, where as superdrol i was fine until mid 3rd week when lethargy started to kick in, but wasn't bad at all....
thesinner
Recovering AXoholic
It's still much drier than dianabol, and the aldosterone increase should easily be overcome by controlling cortisol production; afterall, aldosterone is a metabolite of cortisol. Stack with something like 11-oxo or an anti-cortisol supplement like LeanFX or even just some cheap 7-keto. PP isn't something I'd use for a cutting cycle, but in the event you decide to, that's how it's done son.
Apowerz6
Board Sponsor
It's still much drier than dianabol, and the aldosterone increase should easily be overcome by controlling cortisol production; afterall, aldosterone is a metabolite of cortisol. Stack with something like 11-oxo or an anti-cortisol supplement like LeanFX or even just some cheap 7-keto. PP isn't something I'd use for a cutting cycle, but in the event you decide to, that's how it's done son.
Thanks Sinner I appreciate that info, I just PP the mass is sick, and not hard to maintain. And the strength is there too. But on a cut I would probablly use it as a kick start if ya know what I mean...
celc5
Well-known member
I was gonna ask the same thing.
I used AX Pheraplex and it was a pretty good desinger. IIRC, I had ZERO androgenic effect from phera. Definatley no aggression, and in fact the opposite... pretty good well being. I AM prone to shedding and I had none that I remember on phera. Maybe a few zits on the shoulders and back, but barely enough to even mention.
I ran 20/30/40/40/40. I would have went higher but only had 2 bottles. Strength A+. Lean mass +8. I was a bit carb sensitive on phera though. So I had to be careful things didn't too sloppy.
My personal opinion is that people are experiencing prolactin symptoms with phera, and not gyno. I had moderate prolactin symptoms toward the end of the run which got worse in pct. The post pct prolactin with phera was no where near as hard to get rid of as it was after SD.
GotTest
Active member
So now that I've been educated...It's still much drier than dianabol, and the aldosterone increase should easily be overcome by controlling cortisol production; afterall, aldosterone is a metabolite of cortisol. Stack with something like 11-oxo or an anti-cortisol supplement like LeanFX or even just some cheap 7-keto. PP isn't something I'd use for a cutting cycle, but in the event you decide to, that's how it's done son.
To minimize the "wet" look with PPlex, I need to run a 7-keto to keep aldosterone levels in check, as opposed to running say...ATD to minimize aromatase, since it's really not possible to anyway?
It would help if I looked at the damn molecule :icon_lol:
Sorry sinner..."You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to thesinner again.
monsterbox
Well-known member
So now that I've been educated...
To minimize the "wet" look with PPlex, I need to run a 7-keto to keep aldosterone levels in check, as opposed to running say...ATD to minimize aromatase, since it's really not possible to anyway?
It would help if I looked at the damn molecule :icon_lol:
Sorry sinner..."You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to thesinner again.
id like to know this tooo...and how common are milk producing utters on pplex. Enough for Cabergoline on cycle and during pct...what dosage...or p-5-p or ldopa enough? what dosage?
does super cissus rx at 5 pills/day cover the aldersterone?
TEAR57
Member
My utters got a little milky at the start of week two of phera dosing 30...I made cheese out of it and put it on my eggs to recycle nutrients.
mj34
Member
I have ran Dbol plenty of times. This is my first time with Phera and I'm on my second week. I dont get the insane pumps with Phera as I do with Dbol, the bloat is mild, Dbol sucks for bloat. I havent noticed big strength gains yet, normally with Dbol I get in about a week and my arms feel pumped all the time. For example, I go to brush my teeth and my arms start pumping up and hurting and dishes, **** forget about it. The acne is about the same
mj34
Member
Things look great on paper but in reality they are two different things. I agree I dont put much faith into paper I go by exp. The acne from Dbol is about as bad as Phera.
celc5
Well-known member
Just a side note, I was in contact with a fella who seemed to know his chemistry pretty well while I was running phera. He said that the androgenic potential on paper is probably correct... BUT, it binds lightly for most people where the receptor actually releases. I dunno how much sense that made. I'd invite him over to help with clarification but I haven't seem him online in about a year unfortunately :dunno:
mj34
Member
The well being feeling is pretty similiar to the euphoric feeling from Dbol. I just wished it worked a quick as Dbol. I keep hearing about all of these pumps and strength gains. So far, I have gotten a severe increase in appetite, unlike Dbol which bec of the bloat kind of ruins my appetite to an extent. Also, the acne sucks bad. So I have gotten bigger due to the increase in appetite but I was hoping for those pumps that I get when using Dbol, not the bad back cramps but with Dbol it feels like my arms are going to just rip apart bec they feel pumped, for ex: when I brush my teeth or do dishes damn I get crazy arm pumps but painful back ones at times also. Well, we will see many have said what until the 3rd weeks as that is when strength gains really kicked in. I have noticed a little but nothing off the charts yet