Hiit cardio an issue while bulking ?

[PLACEBOEFFECT9]

I am a bodybuider in my spirit , and i i try to stay lean year round . So cardio is a must . My issue is i hate doing regular bodybuilder cardio , walking on a treadmill etc .
But i enjoy more hiit cardio . I try to do it everyday . Cycling or dancing .
I put on decent size, when i am focused on bulking , this year i put on 7 kgs of which i
Believe 2-3 kg muscle , but i could never manage to be like 220-240 at 10 % bf. mY CURRENT STATS ARE 6 3 HEIGHT 200 LBS ( FOR EUROPE 190 CM 90 KG ) AT AROUND 13 % BODYFAT . I have been lifting for 4 years , with breaks in between due to injuries and surgeries .
So my question to you guys , do you think hiit cardio keeps me small , far from the targeted range at least 220 lbs at 8-10 % bf . Or can i keep hiit cardio in my rotine just bump up clean calories more let’s say 300-500 kcal .

Appreciate the advice from the experienced gym bros .

 

[Smont]

For the most part I only do hit cardio, I usually back off significantly when I'm bulking but after noticing a few things I'm probably going to keep doing it to keep my appetite high. I think it's a fantastic idea as long as you can keep up with the calories to grow

 

[PLACEBOEFFECT9]

For the most part I only do hit cardio, I usually back off significantly when I'm bulking but after noticing a few things I'm probably going to keep doing it to keep my appetite high. I think it's a fantastic idea as long as you can keep up with the calories to grow

How many hours / week do you do hiit cardio on bulk ?

 

[MrKleen73]

If you are doing hours of HIIT a week then yes, it will likely be an issue. I would say no more than 90 minutes of HIIT in a week if just staying in shape but wanting maximal growth. If you aren't gaining beyond that it is time to up the calories. Use your HIIT to stay in good cardiovascular shape, use your calories to manage weight loss/gain.

If you are around 13% you should be in a place to make decent gains, but can you tell a little more about your situation and expectations? We know you have been at it for 4 years off and on, that is not much info. How long are the on periods, and off periods? How much did you weigh and at what composition before training, how much muscle have you gained in that time? We don't know if your progress is great, and your expectations unrealistic, or if you have some training / nutrition situation because we need more info to answer that with any sort of actual relevance. However in the end so long as HIIT isn't lowering performance on your lifts, and you are able to out eat it, it is not going to be the limiting factor in hypertrophy.

 

[PLACEBOEFFECT9]

If you are doing hours of HIIT a week then yes, it will likely be an issue. I would say no more than 90 minutes of HIIT in a week if just staying in shape but wanting maximal growth. If you aren't gaining beyond that it is time to up the calories. Use your HIIT to stay in good cardiovascular shape, use your calories to manage weight loss/gain.

If you are around 13% you should be in a place to make decent gains, but can you tell a little more about your situation and expectations? We know you have been at it for 4 years off and on, that is not much info. How long are the on periods, and off periods? How much did you weigh and at what composition before training, how much muscle have you gained in that time? We don't know if your progress is great, and your expectations unrealistic, or if you have some training / nutrition situation because we need more info to answer that with any sort of actual relevance. However in the end so long as HIIT isn't lowering performance on your lifts, and you are able to out eat it, it is not going to be the limiting factor in hypertrophy.

So i started training at 72 kgs 160 lbs skinny kid , i was not able to lift and unloaded barbell to save my life lol , so naturallly not a strong guy , so in 2,5 years i put on 18 kgs without getting fat . My goal is to get to 220 lbs lean , at around 10 % bodyfat year round .
First year was natural lifting .
I do hours of hiit . 30-60 minutes daily + 8000-10k steps daily .
I am a hard gainer , ectomorph body type .
In 4 years i trained consistently for 2,5 years total . First 1 year full natural training , then i did my first cycle and stopped due to sşde effects . It was an old school deca dbol test cycle .
A while later i restarted training , went on a cycle with test and tren but injured my shoulder and took a 1 year break .
When i got my health back i Restarted and did a small cutting cycle in moderate doses . Also in those years i made in total 4 aas cycles . 2 cutting and 2 bulking cycles . My cycles were short 6 weeks to 12 weeks . I do not want health issues so when some value is out of range i stop the cycle .
My last cycle was the biggest one yet
1-10 weeks 750 mg test
4-10 weeks 400 mg tren
1-10 week 200 mg npp
1-10 week 400 mg bolde
9 iu gh / day
10 iu humalog preworkout
With failed attempt with oral superdrol for a week , i felt like a zombie so stopped it .
In this cycle i put on 7 kg 15 lbs decent size . I ate 4000 kcal per day 80-90 % clean ( with some dairy products in the mix i consider not clean ) . Other things i eat chicken breast , lean cuts of red meat , salmon and white fish , whey , potatoes , rice , rica cakes , oatmeal , dextrose, fruits . So basically i ate 500 grams carbs / 300-350 grams of protein so at least 1,5 gr per pound of bodyweight , 60 grams of fat / day . Not a big sleeper so 7 hours sleep everyday .
So since i do so much hiit cardio , should i bump up the carbs to 600 grams / day on the next bulking phase ? I have a good appetite and i believe when i am locked in i can eat up to 4500-5000 kcal clean .
My cystatin c got up to 1,06 so i am back on a cruise with 250 mg test and 30 mg yk 11 . Rest of my values are in range ldl , hdl , hct , billirubin , ggt and so on .
I am on a slight surplus on cruise now . I am looking to drop yk 11 in 2 weeks and continue cruising on just 250 mg test for a few months, then go on my next blast .

 

[MrKleen73]

I do hours of hiit . 30-60 minutes daily .
I am a hard gainer , ectomorph body type .
In 4 years i trained consistently for 2,5 years total . Also in those years i made 4 aas cycles . 2 cutting and 2 bulking cycles . My cycles were short 6 weeks to 12 weeks . I do not want health issues so when some value is out of range i stop the cycle .
My last cycle was the biggest one yet
1-10 weeks 750 mg test
4-10 weeks 400 mg tren
1-10 week 200 mg npp
1-10 week 400 mg bolde
9 iu gh / day
10 iu humalog preworkout
With failed attempt with oral superdrol for a week , i felt like a zombie so stopped it .
In this cycle i put on 7 kg 15 lbs decent size . I ate 4500 kcal per day 90 % clean ( wşth some dairy products in the mix i consşder not clean ) .
My cystatin c got up to 1,06 so i am back on a cruise with 250 mg test and 30 mg yk 11 . Rest of my values are in range ldl , hdl , hct , billirubin , ggt and so on .
I am on a slight surplus on cruise now .

In those 4 years how much have you put on total? It doesn't sound like your gains are really lacking, but also you wanting to gain another 20lbs while stopping a cycle if something gets out of range is going to be a big challenge for you and take longer to do than most people who will let things get out of range but then real them back in and spend some time in healthy ranges before the next cycle to minimize any issues.

As a hard gainer, if you truly are one then tons of any type of cardio is going to be a limiting factor for maximal growth. Of course you may not be a hard gainer and just someone doing so much HIIT the body is spending resources on recovering from HIIT sessions when it could be growing new tissue. Again, as long as you can out eat the amount of cardio you are doing you can make gains, but you are making things harder on yourself. If the HIIT is a labor of love then maybe don't sweat that 220 number you have in your head. Just keep working, and eating, and building like you have and just do it for longer.

That being said, if you were a bodybuilder that wanted to compete and needed to gain 25-45lbs of muscle like you are wanting, I would definitely have you cut your HIIT back a bit. However that is optimizing for growth, not your personal enjoyment, lifestyle or preferences. I have to say if you have already put on a decent amount of muscle with the gear use that another 25-45lbs of lean tissue is pretty unlikely without years of off and on cycles / cruises. If you are truly a hard gainer though, I think it is pretty unrealistic to expect to see another 45lbs of lean tissue gains. I mean we are talking elite level genetics results for someone saying they do not have elite level genetics. Not an insult, just based on you saying you are a hard gainer.

If you don't intend to compete, I would say if you enjoy your training style keep doing what you enjoy. It will keep you healthier while cycling. Eat for lean tissue growth, do some more cycles, and just be happy with continuing to make progress rather than assigning a number to it that feels like a failure if you don't achieve it.

 

[Smont]

How many hours / week do you do hiit cardio on bulk ?

I was gonna say 90-120min per week depending on the level of intensity. Something like 30min every other day. You got a pretty good answer from kleen

 

[Smont]

Gaining 20-40lbs could be a 1 year plan, but gaining 20 to 40 lb of actual muscle tissue is going to be more like a three to five year plan, and depending on how much muscle you've already put on and how deep into your cycling you've already gone you may require a significant amount of gear and food to do that.

 

[Smont]

Edit, I see he was just making an example I thought you were actually looking to gain 20 to 40 lb of muscle on your next bulk

 

[PLACEBOEFFECT9]

In those 4 years how much have you put on total? It doesn't sound like your gains are really lacking, but also you wanting to gain another 20lbs while stopping a cycle if something gets out of range is going to be a big challenge for you and take longer to do than most people who will let things get out of range but then real them back in and spend some time in healthy ranges before the next cycle to minimize any issues.

As a hard gainer, if you truly are one then tons of any type of cardio is going to be a limiting factor for maximal growth. Of course you may not be a hard gainer and just someone doing so much HIIT the body is spending resources on recovering from HIIT sessions when it could be growing new tissue. Again, as long as you can out eat the amount of cardio you are doing you can make gains, but you are making things harder on yourself. If the HIIT is a labor of love then maybe don't sweat that 220 number you have in your head. Just keep working, and eating, and building like you have and just do it for longer.

That being said, if you were a bodybuilder that wanted to compete and needed to gain 25-45lbs of muscle like you are wanting, I would definitely have you cut your HIIT back a bit. However that is optimizing for growth, not your personal enjoyment, lifestyle or preferences. I have to say if you have already put on a decent amount of muscle with the gear use that another 25-45lbs of lean tissue is pretty unlikely without years of off and on cycles / cruises. If you are truly a hard gainer though, I think it is pretty unrealistic to expect to see another 45lbs of lean tissue gains. I mean we are talking elite level genetics results for someone saying they do not have elite level genetics. Not an insult, just based on you saying you are a hard gainer.

If you don't intend to compete, I would say if you enjoy your training style keep doing what you enjoy. It will keep you healthier while cycling. Eat for lean tissue growth, do some more cycles, and just be happy with continuing to make progress rather than assigning a number to it that feels like a failure if you don't achieve it.

Appreciate the detailed answer . Good , valid points .
In 2,5 years of lifting i put on 18 kgs so 40 lbs. It is not bad , since i am not one of the genetically gifted guys . But i assume gains will slow down along the way . I am not a pro and do not plan to compete , i just enjoy the lifestyle .
on my next blast i plan to use milder compounds , maybe 750 mg test 400 primo and 400 mg npp with gh and slin of course . I think a cycle with less mgs but you are healthy for a longer duration for let’s say 20-24 weeks in the offseason , might yield better results than a bigger cycle with heavier compounds but you have to stop at 10-12 weeks due to some elevated bloods .Then again i am not very experienced in this and i am all ears for suggestions.
Also i am a big eater , i can eat up to 4500-5000 kcal clean without forcefeeding , i think it is a great advantage in this sport / lifestyle to have the appetite and urge to consistently put down the clean food .

 

[PLACEBOEFFECT9]

Edit, I see he was just making an example I thought you were actually looking to gain 20 to 40 lb of muscle on your next bulk

Nah man let’s keep it realistic . 20 to 40 lbs of muscle only genetically gifted guys can make in 1 off season , and that is in the earlier years .
My goal is to get to 220 lbs at 10’% bf in 2-3 years .
Then maybe get to 240 lbs in the next 5 years after that .

 

[MrKleen73]

Appreciate the detailed answer . Good , valid points .
In 2,5 years of lifting i put on 18 kgs so 40 lbs. It is not bad , since i am not one of the genetically gifted guys . But i assume gains will slow down along the way . I am not a pro and do not plan to compete , i just enjoy the lifestyle .
on my next blast i plan to use milder compounds , maybe 750 mg test 400 primo and 400 mg npp with gh and slin of course . I think a cycle with less mgs but you are healthy for a longer duration for let’s say 20-24 weeks in the offseason , might yield better results than a bigger cycle with heavier compounds but you have to stop at 10-12 weeks due to some elevated bloods .Then again i am not very experienced in this and i am all ears for suggestions.
Also i am a big eater , i can eat up to 4500-5000 kcal clean without forcefeeding , i think it is a great advantage in this sport / lifestyle to have the appetite and urge to consistently put down the clean food .

I have to say if you have managed to gain 40lb and remained pretty lean I don't think you are a hard gainer. That is pretty elite in 4 years. I would assume things will start to slow down here shortly, unless you have superior genetics. Also just as an aside some people who are naturally thin still have excellent genetics for gains. So just being a naturally thin person doesn't make you a hard gainer. I would not qualify anyone who has put 40lbs of lean gains in 4 years as a hard gainer.

I am not going to make any wildly predictive statements, other than to say that most people once they add as much size as you have already start only seeing maybe 5lbs of lean tissue gains a year and that is a good year. So the 220 @10% sounds plausible in 3-5 years with it being around 25lbs of lean tissue gains. However, you could stall before getting there. Anything after that, and we are getting into the what are your genetic limits, and how much gear/GH/Slin use going to allow type of thing.

 

[PLACEBOEFFECT9]

I have to say if you have managed to gain 40lb and remained pretty lean I don't think you are a hard gainer. That is pretty elite in 4 years. I would assume things will start to slow down here shortly, unless you have superior genetics. Also just as an aside some people who are naturally thin still have excellent genetics for gains. So just being a naturally thin person doesn't make you a hard gainer. I would not qualify anyone who has put 40lbs of lean gains in 4 years as a hard gainer.

I am not going to make any wildly predictive statements, other than to say that most people once they add as much size as you have already start only seeing maybe 5lbs of lean tissue gains a year and that is a good year. So the 220 @10% sounds plausible in 3-5 years with it being around 25lbs of lean tissue gains. However, you could stall before getting there. Anything after that, and we are getting into the what are your genetic limits, and how much gear/GH/Slin use going to allow type of thing.

Thanks for the motivation . I do not have elite genetics by any means , just passionate about bodybuilding and have a good mindset / discipline . first year was newbie gains i made + 17 lbs naturally , please keep in mind when your starting point is 72 kg 155 lbs skinny kid , then it is not that hard to go from skinny to regular looking dude to above average muscle mass. Then i blasted tren in all of my following cycles , so it was not that hard to add lean mass .
This sport changed my life and how i view myself . I will never be the biggest guy in the gym and i am fine with that . I currently look like that .

 

[Smont]

Appreciate the detailed answer . Good , valid points .
In 2,5 years of lifting i put on 18 kgs so 40 lbs. It is not bad , since i am not one of the genetically gifted guys . But i assume gains will slow down along the way . I am not a pro and do not plan to compete , i just enjoy the lifestyle .
on my next blast i plan to use milder compounds , maybe 750 mg test 400 primo and 400 mg npp with gh and slin of course . I think a cycle with less mgs but you are healthy for a longer duration for let’s say 20-24 weeks in the offseason , might yield better results than a bigger cycle with heavier compounds but you have to stop at 10-12 weeks due to some elevated bloods .Then again i am not very experienced in this and i am all ears for suggestions.
Also i am a big eater , i can eat up to 4500-5000 kcal clean without forcefeeding , i think it is a great advantage in this sport / lifestyle to have the appetite and urge to consistently put down the clean food .

Remember, there's all kinds of genetics.

Ability to grow
Ability to get shredded
Drug tolerance
Drug response
Muscle insertion and joint size

These are all genetic. The fact that you've gained 40 lb in two and a half years without getting fat says that you have good genetics for putting on size and at least average drug response.

A lot of ppl seem to think I have good genetics but I would argue that my genetics for putting on muscle is about average and my drug response is average, I'd actually argue my drug response to oral steroids is below average. What I do have is really good muscle insertions medium sized joints and round muscle bellies, so I look bigger then I actually am. When I'm walking around in shape people often think I'm around 220 lb and I'm usually barely 200. I also have a lot of vascularity, even if I get above 15 or 18% body fat I'm still vascular in my arms upper chest and shoulders, even in my calves and shins, so I can maintain looking lean with a t-shirt and shorts on at much heavier body weight or higher bf than most other people would be able to. Those are all genetic factors as well, I also don't get particularly fat I have to really eat terrible and not exercise in order to truly get fat.

I think people need to figure out what genetic strong points they have and work on those because you can't really fix the bad genetic parts

 

[MrKleen73]

Thanks for the motivation . I do not have elite genetics by any means , just passionate about bodybuilding and have a good mindset / discipline . first year was newbie gains i made + 17 lbs naturally , please keep in mind when your starting point is 72 kg 155 lbs skinny kid , then it is not that hard to go from skinny to regular looking dude to above average muscle mass. Then i blasted tren in all of my following cycles , so it was not that hard to add lean mass .
This sport changed my life and how i view myself . I will never be the biggest guy in the gym and i am fine with that . I currently look like that .

Good stuff man! Looking good, just keep on crushing it. Get on here and follow some logs of good people who are intelligent, and learn all you can. We have a helluva a good group of people on here. Feel free to check into my log, @Smont has a good one running now, and you will see we have a good tight kit group of us here that support each other. If you are interested in being a part of that, jump on in and get to know the crew!

 

[MrKleen73]

Remember, there's all kinds of genetics.

Ability to grow
Ability to get shredded
Drug tolerance
Drug response
Muscle insertion and joint size

These are all genetic. The fact that you've gained 40 lb in two and a half years without getting fat says that you have good genetics for putting on size and at least average drug response.

A lot of ppl seem to think I have good genetics but I would argue that my genetics for putting on muscle is about average and my drug response is average, I'd actually argue my drug response to oral steroids is below average. What I do have is really good muscle insertions medium sized joints and round muscle bellies, so I look bigger then I actually am. When I'm walking around in shape people often think I'm around 220 lb and I'm usually barely 200. I also have a lot of vascularity, even if I get above 15 or 18% body fat I'm still vascular in my arms upper chest and shoulders, even in my calves and shins, so I can maintain looking lean with a t-shirt and shorts on at much heavier body weight or higher bf than most other people would be able to. Those are all genetic factors as well, I also don't get particularly fat I have to really eat terrible and not exercise in order to truly get fat.

I think people need to figure out what genetic strong points they have and work on those because you can't really fix the bad genetic parts

All excellent points!!!

 

[PLACEBOEFFECT9]

Remember, there's all kinds of genetics.

Ability to grow
Ability to get shredded
Drug tolerance
Drug response
Muscle insertion and joint size

These are all genetic. The fact that you've gained 40 lb in two and a half years without getting fat says that you have good genetics for putting on size and at least average drug response.

A lot of ppl seem to think I have good genetics but I would argue that my genetics for putting on muscle is about average and my drug response is average, I'd actually argue my drug response to oral steroids is below average. What I do have is really good muscle insertions medium sized joints and round muscle bellies, so I look bigger then I actually am. When I'm walking around in shape people often think I'm around 220 lb and I'm usually barely 200. I also have a lot of vascularity, even if I get above 15 or 18% body fat I'm still vascular in my arms upper chest and shoulders, even in my calves and shins, so I can maintain looking lean with a t-shirt and shorts on at much heavier body weight or higher bf than most other people would be able to. Those are all genetic factors as well, I also don't get particularly fat I have to really eat terrible and not exercise in order to truly get fat.

I think people need to figure out what genetic strong points they have and work on those because you can't really fix the bad genetic parts

Excellent points . Thanks !