High Cholesterol / Statin feedback

rodefeeh

rodefeeh

Well-known member
First off, I'm natty, about to turn 40, 5'11'', 181 lbs, 9-10% bodyfat. I just came off a pretty intense cut for two months and had my bloodwork done right after it ended. My bad cholesterol LDL was through the roof - 233. It was at 176 a couple years ago. My HDL and Triglycerides are both in a great range. My mom has slightly cholesterol and is on a low dose statin. Towards the end of my cut, I dialed back my egg intake trying to get at that 176 lower. Well that back fired. Doc wanted to put me on a statin right away. I'm going to wait another 3 months and test again. I'm going to supplement with:

- more fish oil (I was already taking some)
- more berberine (I was already taking some but not regularly)
- eat clove of garlic everyday
- take NOW Cholesterol Pro (has plant sterols)

I'm also going to cut out my protein powder that is high in cholesterol and just eat more whole foods. IMO my diet is impeccable. It's probably just in my DNA to have high cholesterol but I really don't want to go on a drug already for the rest of my life. A doctor friend friend of mine said I should ask for a Calcium Score to see if I have any build up in my arteries.

Does anyone have anyone any feedback for my situation or want to describe their experiences using a statin? I would really appreciate it!
 
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In for responses.
 
I’ve been using 20mg Lipitor ED for ~5 years. My mom has high cholesterol so I believe it’s hereditary. I had some DS usage +10 years ago so that could have exasperated it. No sides to speak of. My cholesterol is perfect now.
 
Fly_boy said:
I’ve been using 20mg Lipitor ED for ~5 years. My mom has high cholesterol so I believe it’s hereditary. I had some DS usage +10 years ago so that could have exasperated it. No sides to speak of. My cholesterol is perfect now.
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Did you notice any improvement in quality of life that didn't realize you were missing out on before you got on Lipitor?
Are there any supplements you have to stay away from now that you're own Lipitor?
 
You stated your diet is impeccable (in your opinion). Would you mind throwing it up on here as well? I've made dramatic improvements in my cholesterol through dietary and supplemental changes without having to use a statin. It is hereditary in my family as my mom has to use one to keep hers in range. I'm hoping to maintain this pattern but I am seeking out Ezetimibe still.
 
Look into Niacin. Therapeutic doses brought my cholesterol down significantly. Consider reading "The New Eight Week Cholesterol Cure". Some contend that niacin is not the right solution, and many (but not all) of those people benefit financially from statin sales. For me, as part of a regimen, it was a blessing. Those talking niacin become less reactive to the niacin flush/burn (which is harmless, but irritating) over time.

Increase your fiber intake. Oat bran is very effective.

Read up on the following supplements (Examine.com is a good starting point): Artichoke Leaf Extract, Berberine, Fish oil, Flax Seed, Garlic, Ginger, Green Tea Extract, Plant Stanols and Sterols, ab CoQ10. There are others.

Read up on the potential downsides of statins (there are many). Some are not "man friendly". Of course, neither is a stroke.

In other words, become as informed as you can be. Read up on HDL, LDL, VLDL (very-low-density lipoprotein) and triglycerides.

Free advice is worth what you pay for it - and I am not suggesting that you should not follow your MD's advice. What I am saying is that I didn't comply with my MD's recommendation (she has been my MD for many years and I trust her), because I wanted to avoid pharma products if I could and did not want to deal with statin side effects. It has worked (well) for me. After having spoken to several MDs about this, very few MDs are taught (or know a lot) about alternative health protocols. They suggest drugs because those are the protocols they are taught.

My approach was to see if I could take other measures, rather than default to a statin, knowing that if it did not work - I could always start a statin.

There are also some surprising studies that suggest a lack of causal relationship between cholesterol and heart disease in many (but not all) instances.

I take this stuff seriously because of my family history, so I very much try to avoid bro-science.
 
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LdL is just transport molecule, mine also
Went up during cut.. new research showing this. Invalid Link Removed gives decent info..
HDL n trig ratio tells a better picture. If ldl is not oxidized then its no problem. C-reactive protein? Fractionated panel was mentioned..

Statins r useless they do not lower heart attack risk.. if anything r damaging via depleting coq10.

CACS is what u need - cor art calcium score..

U need to do research, not take statins
 
Citrus bergamot and cardarine greatly reduced my cholesterol numbers!
Currently, my Dr has me on Crestor. When I started taking the two mentioned, I cut back to every other day on the crestor.

Before, when inwas just on crestor, I couldn't get my total down below 200. Now, I'm averaging around 160.
 
Here's a very general daily meal routine. Amounts vary depending on the day and time of year (summer I do more cardio, less weights). I'm sure you get the picture.

Breakfast
3-4 scrambled eggs cooked in microwave
1/3-2/3 cup raw oats - cooked in microwave
maybe a slice or two fat free cheese
all mixed together, sounds gross but not bad with some salt and pepper

Pre-Workout meal (cut out this meal normally during cutting and summer)
5-10 saltine crackers and/or 1/4 cup raisins
1 scoop protein powder

Post-Workout meal
1 cup raw oats - cooked in microwave
1/8-1/4 cup raw almonds
2 scoops protein powder

Lunch
BIG salad with lots of different veggies
grilled chicken - shoot for 50g of protein
1/8-1/4 cup raw walnuts
1/2-1 cup cooked brown rice
1 tbsp white vinegar and 1 tbsp acv

Dinner - always my biggest meal
Whatever my wife makes
It's normally healthy. I try to portion for 50g protein, 20-30g fat, 40-80g carbs, lots of veggies
We do take out 2x a week and I shoot for same macros.

Possible late night snack when I'm hitting the weights extra hard in the fall/winter
lean protein source, healthy fat source, whole grains

I add in a lot of baby carrots here and there to top off a meal.

I have just now cut out the eggs and protein powder replacing with more chicken/fat free greek yogurt/low fat cottage cheese/raw nuts
 
barische said:
LdL is just transport molecule, mine also
Went up during cut.. new research showing this. Invalid Link Removed gives decent info..
HDL n trig ratio tells a better picture. If ldl is not oxidized then its no problem. C-reactive protein? Fractionated panel was mentioned..

Statins r useless they do not lower heart attack risk.. if anything r damaging via depleting coq10.

CACS is what u need - cor art calcium score..

U need to do research, not take statins
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Thanks. I've been trying to do a lot research, holding off on taking statins. Doc wanted to put me on statins when my LDL was 176. I thought about saying f*ck off, I'll find another doctor. I've read some of the stuff you've mentioned. I'll take a look at that site. I really appreciate it bro!
 
Beau said:
Look into Niacin. Therapeutic doses brought my cholesterol down significantly. Consider reading "The New Eight Week Cholesterol Cure". Some contend that niacin is not the right solution, and many (but not all) of those people benefit financially from statin sales. For me, as part of a regimen, it was a blessing. Those talking niacin become less reactive to the niacin flush/burn (which is harmless, but irritating) over time.

Increase your fiber intake. Oat bran is very effective.

Read up on the following supplements (Examine.com is a good starting point): Artichoke Leaf Extract, Berberine, Fish oil, Flax Seed, Garlic, Ginger, Green Tea Extract, Plant Stanols and Sterols, ab CoQ10. There are others.

Read up on the potential downsides of statins (there are many). Some are not "man friendly". Of course, neither is a stroke.

In other words, become as informed as you can be. Read up on HDL, LDL, VLDL (very-low-density lipoprotein) and triglycerides.

Free advice is worth what you pay for it - and I am not suggesting that you should not follow your MD's advice. What I am saying is that I didn't comply with my MD's recommendation (she has been my MD for many years and I trust her), because I wanted to avoid pharma products if I could and did not want to deal with statin side effects. It has worked (well) for me. After having spoken to several MDs about this, very few MDs are taught (or know a lot) about alternative health protocols. They suggest drugs because those are the protocols they are taught.

My approach was to see if I could take other measures, rather than default to a statin, knowing that if it did not work - I could always start a statin.

There are also some surprising studies that suggest a lack of causal relationship between cholesterol and heart disease in many (but not all) instances.

I take this stuff seriously because of my family history, so I very much try to avoid bro-science.
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Really appreciate the detailed response bro. I don't think I could be eating more fiber with all the veggies and oats I eat. I'm already planning to add in Berberine, Fish Oil, Garlic and Plant Sterols to my diet. I'm right there with you on a lot of what you said!
 
rodefeeh said:
2018 Now (right after a cut)
Trig 58 126
HDL 71 82
LDL 176 233

I previously stated LDL was 212. Wrong, even higher - 233.
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Ur ratio is still less then 2:1 which is good. Ratio of 1:1 is excellent.. do u have a1c? Trig goin up may be slight sign of insulin resistance. Buy may be unlikely after a cut. How much weight did u lose? Weight different from previous labs?

i had a similar reaction. I got in much better shape, leaner + more muscle at lower weight. N i had the same trend. Trig n ldl
Both went up. Mind u i have done intermittent fasting for 2+ years before test. My cardio shape was at all time best. Its truly mind boggling. Btw I am an RD and medicine/ nutrition will be changing for sure
 
barische said:
Ur ratio is still less then 2:1 which is good. Ratio of 1:1 is excellent.. do u have a1c? Trig goin up may be slight sign of insulin resistance. Buy may be unlikely after a cut. How much weight did u lose? Weight different from previous labs?

i had a similar reaction. I got in much better shape, leaner + more muscle at lower weight. N i had the same trend. Trig n ldl
Both went up. Mind u i have done intermittent fasting for 2+ years before test. My cardio shape was at all time best. Its truly mind boggling. Btw I am an RD and medicine/ nutrition will be changing for sure
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I'll respond in detail tomorrow. Thanks.
 
rodefeeh said:
Did you notice any improvement in quality of life that didn't realize you were missing out on before you got on Lipitor?
Are there any supplements you have to stay away from now that you're own Lipitor?
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I haven’t noticed anything different about my quality of life. I can’t drink grapefruit juice because it inhibits CYP3A which is needed to break down statins in the intestine.
 
barische said:
C-reactive protein? Fractionated panel was mentioned..

Statins r useless they do not lower heart attack risk.. if anything r damaging via depleting coq10.

CACS is what u need - cor art calcium score..
Click to expand...
Yes, my MD had me undergo a CACS - called me and said I had a "zero". I've used Arginine and other amino acids (including proline and lysine) for years. After seeing what my Dad went through, I tried to defuse the bomb as early as I could.

C-reactive protein - I am with you on that as well. It is an excellent indicator of arterial inflammation It is the arterial inflammation, and eventual rupture from hardening arteries, that causes the issue. Cholesterol build up to block and repair to compromised area. That eventually leads to arterial blockage.

Thank you for sharing that excellent information.
 
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my own experience with chol numbers were eye opener. I was truly baffled.. how did i get in much better shape yet numbers got worse. I Did Alotta research. Asked my doc for fractionated panel, ldl particle size, apoe, apoA, insulin, many more good indicators whom denied my request. I threw my hands in air in confusion. I mean i ran sub 6 min mile, 7:12 on 2k rower while totaling 1000#. Doing mostly torturous crossfit workouts. Those chol numbers didnt make any sense. I was eating mostly low carb + fasting. Did alot of fasted training, i was “fat adapted” by the termed coin. I am even more now. Appears that more LDL is produced by the body when demand is higher. Problem
Is if that ldl becomes oxidized. W/ good diet, exercise, no smoke/toxins, low sugar/insulin oxidation is minimal. Then analysis of ldl particle size: large fluffy ldl particles vs small dense. Some docs fail to look at thr whole picture n just wanna treat labs. I was told by mine work on diet n exercise more. Pfffff

Good luck
 
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barische said:
Ur ratio is still less then 2:1 which is good. Ratio of 1:1 is excellent.. do u have a1c? Trig goin up may be slight sign of insulin resistance. Buy may be unlikely after a cut. How much weight did u lose? Weight different from previous labs?

i had a similar reaction. I got in much better shape, leaner + more muscle at lower weight. N i had the same trend. Trig n ldl
Both went up. Mind u i have done intermittent fasting for 2+ years before test. My cardio shape was at all time best. Its truly mind boggling. Btw I am an RD and medicine/ nutrition will be changing for sure
Click to expand...

I don't think I've had an A1C test. My fasting glucose score was 81 (80 in 2018). I went from 193 to 178 lbs over my 2 month cut. About 5 lbs of it was probably water weight. I got off creatine after the first month. I'm normally off creatine May-September every year. Here are before and after pics. I'm at 179 lbs this morning. I was probably around 186 lbs for my previous labs in 2018.

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rodefeeh said:
I don't think I've had an A1C test. My fasting glucose score was 81 (80 in 2018). I went from 193 to 178 lbs over my 2 month cut. About 5 lbs of it was probably water weight. I got off creatine after the first month. I'm normally off creatine May-September every year. Here are before and after pics. I'm at 179 lbs this morning. I was probably around 186 lbs for my previous labs in 2018.

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Epitomy of health n fitness!! That doc was dumb to just push that poison on you.. if you are concerned go further with more accurate testing that i suggested above
 
I don’t think whole eggs, protein power or meat is the evil in your numbers, I eat plenty of all of those and my numbers was low the last time I checked.

Niacin, coq10, fish oil and fiber is all good to use to help with better cholesterol numbers. Your diet looks good, maybe add some apples, apples are supposed to help with healthy cholesterol.
 
barische said:
Epitomy of health n fitness!! That doc was dumb to just push that poison on you.. if you are concerned go further with more accurate testing that i suggested above
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Thanks a lot man. I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge. I'll probably stick to my plan and retest after 3 months and get additional tests if needed, possibly switching doctors. He has made multiple comments that haven't won over my trust.
 
BBiceps said:
I don’t think whole eggs, protein power or meat is the evil in your numbers, I eat plenty of all of those and my numbers was low the last time I checked.

Niacin, coq10, fish oil and fiber is all good to use to help with better cholesterol numbers. Your diet looks good, maybe add some apples, apples are supposed to help with healthy cholesterol.
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Appreciate the feedback bro. An apple a day keeps the doctor away, right? I definitely could eat more fruits. I'm frugal so I try to get most of my carbs from oats and brown rice. I actually started eating apples a little towards the end of my cut just because they are low on calories for how filling they are. I'll look into some Niacin, thanks!
 
@Segansational, do/did you have high cholesterol if you don't mind me asking? I see you're taking Red Yeast Rice from your In The Mail pic. Care to share your experiences?
 
First time taking a Niacin pill. The flush from a 500mg pill is pretty crazy, way worse than BA tingles. I've got 240 of these bad boys. I think I'll spend a couple extra dollars and opt for the flush free pills next time!
 
rodefeeh said:
@Segansational, do/did you have high cholesterol if you don't mind me asking? I see you're taking Red Yeast Rice from your In The Mail pic. Care to share your experiences?
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look into red yeast rice - natural
Statin source.
anything green; green powders, spirulina, chorella. Beets beet powder
garlic, acv, anything purple (blueberries, think like cleans like) lots color in ur diet.

Policosanol, niacin, soy lecithin, citrus bergamoT - earl grey tea. Bigelow makes double bergamot!!

more garlic!! Did i say garlic..

you may end up changing numbers but ratios will get altered. If ur LDL goes down n trig goes up then thats not ideal either. Ask for
Fasted VLDL. ApoA, ApoE

niacin n cit bergamot is used to bring up hdl which is already high for u.
Get soy lecithin, garlic n red yeast rice
 
rodefeeh said:
First time taking a Niacin pill. The flush from a 500mg pill is pretty crazy, way worse than BA tingles. I've got 240 of these bad boys. I think I'll spend a couple extra dollars and opt for the flush free pills next time!
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At one point I built up to 3 grams a day. You'll get used to it.

Try taking it with aspirin, and with food.

Flush free does not have the same benefit.
 
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rodefeeh said:
First time taking a Niacin pill. The flush from a 500mg pill is pretty crazy, way worse than BA tingles. I've got 240 of these bad boys. I think I'll spend a couple extra dollars and opt for the flush free pills next time!
Click to expand...

Flush free niacin has no effect on cholesterol, at least that’s my understanding. Straight nicotinic acid is what you want. Beyond that, I recently has bloods done, and this is the first time in years my hdl was in range. My ldl improved as well, but still a bit on the high side. Supplentally, I added 10mg of cardarine, garlic oil and pomegranate extract. In addition I take 500mg straight niacin and krill oil. Honestly feels like it was the cardarine, pomegranate and garlic oil that did the trick. I just started another cycle of cardarine at 5mg daily, along with the other staples I listed. I honestly feel this is working well for me.
 
Niacin is most beneficial for guys on trt, whom
Tend to have low hdl <40.
Rodefeed has already high, likely zero benefit to him except to drive up liver enzymes
 
All great info guys!

With the Niacin flush, it looked like I had just gone to the tanning bed! The uncomfortable effects lasted a good hour.
 
Here's my F the cholesterol stack at the moment.

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Those that mentioned the red yeast rice, be advised, that regular otc is not the same as Chinese ryr.. A number of years ago, the ryr was changed up and something in it that made it so effective was actually taken out.
I don't remember the article or documentation, but I do remember reading it on this forum.
 
The RYR has to have Monacolin K in it. Only place I can find it is on the UK Amazon. I just recently switched to krill oil from fish oil and have blood work coming up. Curious if it helped or hurt me.
 
It’s my understanding that omega-3s primarily help support/maintain lipids that are marginal or already in a normal range. Krill is supposedly absorbed better than regular fish oil, but again, I’ve read where the difference is rather minimal, although I do take krill oil because it seemed to have a positive effect on my triglycerides. I believe it comes down to a combination of supplements to get significant effects on lipids. I’ve been on 500mg of niacin daily for years, and that along with krill and natto just wasn’t moving the needle much. I added pomegranate, garlic oil and cardarine. In addition, I’ve also been running short cycles of androsterone. After adding these for a couple months, my hdl came back well within range, which I haven’t seen in years. LDL was still on the high side, but much improved. It’s likely the cardarine had the biggest effect, so I’m going to cycle that at 5mg every couple months or so, but also continue the other staples for general health.
 
Still getting a horrendous Niacin flush 3 weeks into it. Thankfully I found that oatmeal decreases the sides. If I take it with any other food, Im as red as a stop sign and my skin is on fire.
 
rodefeeh said:
Still getting a horrendous Niacin flush 3 weeks into it. Thankfully I found that oatmeal decreases the sides. If I take it with any other food, Im as red as a stop sign and my skin is on fire.
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for some reason I was always able to sleep pretty well with niacin flush so I'd just take it before bed or nap
 
Kronic said:
for some reason I was always able to sleep pretty well with niacin flush so I'd just take it before bed or nap
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Same.
 
rodefeeh said:
Still getting a horrendous Niacin flush 3 weeks into it. Thankfully I found that oatmeal decreases the sides. If I take it with any other food, Im as red as a stop sign and my skin is on fire.
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Just throwing in my 2 cents. I’m a dietary responder to cholesterol and my numbers started creeping up steadily at around 40 years of age.

I take 800 mgs of Berberine/day. For me, works just as well as a statin, while also helping my blood sugars. Now I can eat a moderate amount of cholesterol and saturated fats and my lipids still are on point.

I couldn’t bear niacin, even the low flush type. Couldn’t sleep bc I itched so much.

Given your calcium score, I don’t think there’s any great urgency here to take a statin. Stay the course. Good luck.
 
rodefeeh said:
Still getting a horrendous Niacin flush 3 weeks into it. Thankfully I found that oatmeal decreases the sides. If I take it with any other food, Im as red as a stop sign and my skin is on fire.
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Try - with food, with largest meal of the day - but after the meal. Try - taking aspirin an hour before. Try - taking with healthy fat.

If nothing else, cut back a bit (pill splitter) and endure the burn. It WILL lessen.
 
Beau said:
Try - with food, with largest meal of the day - but after the meal. Try - taking aspirin an hour before. Try - taking with healthy fat.

If nothing else, cut back a bit (pill splitter) and endure the burn. It WILL lessen.
Click to expand...

Yesterday I didn’t have much flush at all, took it with my post workout meal - proats and almonds. I think I’ll stick with this.
 
I stopped screwing around with the supplements and stuff when it comes to my cholesterol I take 10mg of atorvastain when I go to bed. There’s no otc I’ve tried that can replace the ability of it. I had the same effect with simvastin 12 years ago. I took it for about a year then hopped off it when I lost insurance.
My mother refuses statins. And she’s always fighting cholesterol says statins are bad for you. I never have noticed the physical change by taking the statins. I feel the same but the numbers look better
 
prestoner said:
I stopped screwing around with the supplements and stuff when it comes to my cholesterol I take 10mg of atorvastain when I go to bed. There’s no otc I’ve tried that can replace the ability of it. I had the same effect with simvastin 12 years ago. I took it for about a year then hopped off it when I lost insurance.
My mother refuses statins. And she’s always fighting cholesterol says statins are bad for you. I never have noticed the physical change by taking the statins. I feel the same but the numbers look better
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Appreciate the feedback bro. I'm trying the supplement route 3 months, then retest. If my numbers are still too high then I'll ask for a calcium score. If I have any build up then I'll cave and get put on a statin.
 
If natty avoid statins..they lower testosterone and have increased chance of developing rhabdomylosis. Time released niacin marginally improves HDL along with LISS cardio ( but watch liver values on niacin long term) and high dosed policosanol/octicosanol help LDL values. Also daily sugar free Metamucil for fiber intake helps cholesterol profile as well. If exploring natural alternatives route, explore red yeast rice, a natural source of lovastatin...calcium score, echocardiogram, stress test, CBC w/differential, CK, CRP, homocysteine, regular BP checks...all good things to have to ease the mind on heart related issues.
 
rodefeeh said:
Still getting a horrendous Niacin flush 3 weeks into it. Thankfully I found that oatmeal decreases the sides. If I take it with any other food, Im as red as a stop sign and my skin is on fire.
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Avoid taking with fatty meals and spicy meals..those greatly enhance the flush.
 
I finally wised up and have been cutting the Niacin pill in half. The flush was just too unpredictable. I still get minor tingles with half a pill but never beet red!
 
Got my blood drawn today. Fingers crossed the extra $ on supps, diet change, and crazy red hot flushing was all worth it. I’ll let you know the results when I get them.
 
Holyshit, I dont know what did the trick but my bad cholesterol went down 100 points! I imagine the supplements and garlic played some part because my numbers are even better than 2018. Ecstatic right now.

2018 June (right after a cut) Now
Trig 58 126 57
HDL 71 82 80
LDL 176 233 132
VLDL. 12 22 10


I SO APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S FEEDBACK!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!
 
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