Here Comes the FDA Again!!!

[CDB]

Dr. D brought it up.

OTC medication and God. I love that combo. :thumbsup:

 

[CDB]

While I agree that we shouldn't judge, I think you'll find those who do not subscribe to any type of religion to be because of the acts and judgements of the religious that have been made on us.

I do know what you mean, but all people judge others, not just the religious. The guy I workout with on Sundays is a Born Again Christian, and he would love to save my soul. You just have to realize the motivation is good even if the acts that spring from it don't always agree with you. Besides, he's a frigging black belt and could kill me if he wanted to. It teaches one to be more tolerant.

 

[DR.D]

Dr. D brought it up.

No I didn't !! I hate religion, I don't belong to a church. I'm a scientist and a liberal (BTW, g4ud1n, I think God's a total lib too) all I said is that I've found that the Bible is true. So did Issac Newton, he discovered that it was encoded but could not prove it. Now computers have unsealed this phenomenon, and it's real. So believe what you will, and you may not give a ****, but don't be ignorant to the fact. Reality can only be denied for so long, so if you study it and still don't give a ****, or reach the conclusion that it's bunk, fine. Truth however is singular and absolute and there for the asking. Don't ever let any church or religion push there political crap down your throat. Think about it this way, if it's all bull and you were wrong, you just die one day and that's it, no harm in having believed. But what if it's true? Your choice is eternal. They don't come any more liberal that me, so don't think I'm just crazy, and yes, this contry was founded by Christians that came here to escape the church in the first place. You don't need religion to know God, you do it yourself and Christ is the way. Just what I've learned, no judgement here my friends, but it would be irresponsible of me to know and not tell you.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Every religion and every culture is going to have its fanatics. But religion keeping people moral? The Bible Belt has the highest concentration of strip clubs in the country. Most Christians would not consider that to be moral. I'm not going to get into this any more it just becomes retarded.

Just FYI, I'm not a religiuos guy. However, it's just a simple fact that religion instills moral values in people. (Some take to extremes, which is ridiculous.) I'm not going to discuss this any further either. Anyone who would disagree with the correlation between reformed religions and morality is obviously just anti-religious.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

... Besides, he's a frigging black belt and could kill me if he wanted to. It teaches one to be more tolerant.

Sorry, I just had to comment on this If he were a blackbelt in one or more of the many "traditional" martial arts, your chances of kickins his ass may have actually increased from my experience LOL.

A good art will allow you to become efficient fast! For example. Frank shamrock started MMA'ing only 8 months before he became pro. 6 months later, he was world champ. It's all about practicality and not big, whirly kicks and stupid blocks and stances.

My experience with tradiational martial artists, and especially sparring with guys who've run through a few different tradiational arts since childhood, was very "enlightening".

 

[DR.D]

Sorry, I just had to comment on this If he were a blackbelt in one or more of the many "traditional" martial arts, your chances of kickins his ass may have actually increased from my experience LOL.

A good art will allow you to become efficient fast! For example. Frank shamrock started MMA'ing only 8 months before he became pro. 6 months later, he was world champ. It's all about practicality and not big, whirly kicks and stupid blocks and stances.

My experience with tradiational martial artists, and especially sparring with guys who've run through a few different tradiational arts since childhood, was very "enlightening".

I'm a purple belt in judo (2 steps from black) ok.. not very impressive, never mind.. :wave: I agree, I got effecient real fast, won first place in novice and advanced in my very first tournament. It just came natural

 

[kwyckemynd00]

I like Judo Most grappling arts are practical and efficient.

I've got a buddy who just missed an olympic spot for Judo. His name is Nathaniel Wells (not sure if that's his exact last name...it could be wills, I've never seen him spell it. LOL.)

 

[anadrol75]

Well, there goes creatine. I'll have to say Arnold is a traitor. He has forgotten what got him to where he is now. If it wasn't for bodybuilding he would be an unknown.

 

[CDB]

No I didn't !! I hate religion, I don't belong to a church. I'm a scientist and a liberal (BTW, g4ud1n, I think God's a total lib too) all I said is that I've found that the Bible is true. So did Issac Newton, he discovered that it was encoded but could not prove it. Now computers have unsealed this phenomenon, and it's real.

The problem with that, Doc, is that computers can also unseal codes in every other book on the planet. I read The Bible Code, it's nonsense.

 

[DR.D]

The problem with that, Doc, is that computers can also unseal codes in every other book on the planet. I read The Bible Code, it's nonsense.

I've read several books too, some do sound stupid. But the codes are real. If you don't know Hebrew, I can send you a program if you like. Or you can give me something private about yourself and your name and I can send you over a graph of your own life as encoded in the Bible. Trust me, I once believed than aliens seeded the human race. I am a total skeptic and practice the scientific method of debunking everything I can. Do you think it's easy for me to just "believe" as a scientist? It stands against all good scientific practice and aint easy to defend. I would not put this out there to make myself look stupid or relegious and mislead people in there eternal destinies if I didn't honestly think it were true. You owe it to yourself to know, I'll send you the software if you like. I have found all kinds of interesting stuff encoded, it is not just a mathmatical trick as some may have you think, it is simpley not statistically possible.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

The problem with that, Doc, is that computers can also unseal codes in every other book on the planet. I read The Bible Code, it's nonsense.

They did it with Moby Dick with some success. But for the most part, The bible code is an anamoly that statisticians claim is completely improbable.

 

[Knowbull]

Aliens (Angels) did seed the human race. If creatine is banned this will no longer be the land of the free, this government knows it is not immune to mass exodous of its most valued citizens. Well, I hope they know that.

 

[Knowbull]

Bible code is real,

 

[CDB]

I've read several books too, some do sound stupid. But the codes are real. If you don't know Hebrew, I can send you a program if you like. Or you can give me something private about yourself and your name and I can send you over a graph of your own life as encoded in the Bible. Trust me, I once believed than aliens seeded the human race. I am a total skeptic and practice the scientific method of debunking everything I can. Do you think it's easy for me to just "believe" as a scientist? It stands against all good scientific practice and aint easy to defend. I would not put this out there to make myself look stupid or relegious and mislead people in there eternal destinies if I didn't honestly think it were true. You owe it to yourself to know, I'll send you the software if you like. I have found all kinds of interesting stuff encoded, it is not just a mathmatical trick as some may have you think, it is simpley not statistically possible.

I don't think you're dumb, Doc, but even the smartest people get roped in by a line of crap every now and then. The 'codes' they find are rather loose when you look at the broad picture. One, no definitive version of the Bible exists. All old versions vary so the significant code that works in one version is no where to be found in another. Two, you have to have a lot of shall we say 'flexibility' with spelling before the codes start showing up, and then the results are gotten by picking and choosing among varying instances. Plug my name in and you'll find a ton of stuff I'm sure, and just as if a palm reader of some other psychic was 'reading' me, it would all be strangely accurate.

Interesting and seemingly significant word combinations will show up in any long book you look through in this way, so long as you maintain the 'flexibility' with which the Bible Code people go after such combinations. When you tighten up the requirements, look for accurate spellings, and don't pick and choose which instances you pull out, it turns into mush. The original 1994 Bible Code article was debunked in the same magazine that it originally appeared in a few years later. The word was that the approach that was originally used was loose enough to generate any results they wanted."

If it's a holy code, some kind of message from God, it's a pretty shabby one. I'd expect better from a supreme being.

 

[DR.D]

Aliens (Angels) did seed the human race. QUOTE]

I used to think that too. Of course it's crap, and aliens are just the demonic powers of the air. They did try to destroy the bloodline of man before, when they looked upon the daughters of men, seeing that they were beautiful and made a race of giants with them. That's why God wiped out the whole race except Noah and his family, so that the line of David (Christ's line) would not be dirty with their genetics. He also cast down 1/3 of the angels for their participation. I can go on and on, I studied it well before I confirmed it's truth. I would love to tell anyone who is willing to listen, but I will NOT force it on anyone. God is not a cosmic rapist, he will not force Himself on the unwilling, but if you ask, he is faithful to reveal.

 

[DR.D]

I don't think you're dumb, Doc, but even the smartest people get roped in by a line of crap every now and then. The 'codes' they find are rather loose when you look at the broad picture. One, no definitive version of the Bible exists. All old versions vary so the significant code that works in one version is no where to be found in another. Two, you have to have a lot of shall we say 'flexibility' with spelling before the codes start showing up, and then the results are gotten by picking and choosing among varying instances. Plug my name in and you'll find a ton of stuff I'm sure, and just as if a palm reader of some other psychic was 'reading' me, it would all be strangely accurate.

Interesting and seemingly significant word combinations will show up in any long book you look through in this way, so long as you maintain the 'flexibility' with which the Bible Code people go after such combinations. When you tighten up the requirements, look for accurate spellings, and don't pick and choose which instances you pull out, it turns into mush. The original 1994 Bible Code article was debunked in the same magazine that it originally appeared in a few years later. The word was that the approach that was originally used was loose enough to generate any results they wanted."

If it's a holy code, some kind of message from God, it's a pretty shabby one. I'd expect better from a supreme being.

I hear you but I don't think your really up to speed on it. I'm talking about a very tight system. Using the original Hebrew Torah as the only credible version. No tranalations or modern versions allowed. I'm not the smartest guy, but I do know that the statistical chances of finding you name encoded in an ancient manuscript such as the Torah is about 1 in 10 E36. You have better chances of surviving a plane jump with no parachute 10,000 times in a row. You don't have to be smart to go with odds like that. Like I said, you don't need to know Hebrew or take my word for it, I'll mail you a code of the program and you can decide for yourself. I challange you to find anything signifigant in Mobey Dick, you won't using a tight ELS code system. I have no reason to get roped into some pointless theory. I'm a nuclear physics major. Quantum theory states that nothing is real until it is observed. Maybe you don't understand because you have never detected it, but now that you are aware of it, there is no excuse for ignorance. I would like to help if you are really interested in finding the Truth.

 

[ManBeast]

Guys... this is getting off topic, and religion is very touchy, it's managed to stay civil for now, please keep it this way. :-D

ManBeast

 

[kwyckemynd00]

....
If it's a holy code, some kind of message from God, it's a pretty shabby one. I'd expect better from a supreme being.

However, if it's got "everything" mapped out in it, it's not going to be pretty in those 1000 or so pages. You would have to use an reuse words and phrases and then figure out how to get them a certain distance apart, etc. (distance because of the equadistant spacing that is so important to the bible code decryption.)

I'm not saying it's true. But mapping out a huge (although finite) future with details about everyone and everything in the world in 1000 pages isn't shabby no matter how it's done.

I've got my beliefs about the code. I have a hard time believing such a thing, but at the same time, I cannot deny the statistics. It's just too damn improbably IMHO.

 

[CDB]

I've been into it already, Doc. A friend of mine who believes in it lent me his books and did one of those code readings on me. I don't know if he used the same software or whatever you use, but it was pretty useless stuff. I've heard better from John Edward. It seemed like every other piece of spiritualist bunk I've encountered in my life, from cold reading psychics like Edward to black magic. I'd say go here: http://cs.anu.edu.au/people/bdm/dilugim/torah.html. Read some of the papers that explain how this happens and happens in other books too. kwyckemynd00 was wrong, they've also done code searches with War and Peace and few other long works, and with the same standards as the original Bible Code article uses, you find those types of word instances in every single long work you look at.

Equidistant Letter Spacing will produce seemingly significant codes in any long text, especially if you're as loose with spelling as the original Coders were. And it's all nonsense. For example one of the coders claimed to have found all the names of the subcamps of Auschwitz near the phrase "in Auschwitz," in one of the books of the Bible. So what? Look for it in a few other books you'll find it too, and what's God trying to tell us with that encoded piece of brilliance, that all the subcamps of Auschwitz were in Aushwitz? Duh. Thanks, Lord. I'd want to ask god why that doesn't show up in the other Hebrew copies ofthe Bible that come from the same time frame the coder's version comes from.

I'd like to believe something higher than me exists, it'd be nice. So far anything and everything I've seen that supposedly proves God's existence, the existence of an afterlife, etc., is pure nonsense, and after reading up and looking at the Bible Code myself I came to the same conclusion about it. It just doesn't hold up.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

.....
I'd like to believe something higher than me exists, it'd be nice. So far anything and everything I've seen that supposedly proves God's existence, the existence of an afterlife, etc., is pure nonsense, and after reading up and looking at the Bible Code myself I came to the same conclusion about it. It just doesn't hold up.

I know where you're coming from here. I'm not exactly a religious guy but I believe there most definitely is something supernatural out there. If there were nothing supernatural out there. Nothing that defies all natural laws, then how the hell did everything come into existence? Take any theory. We will just work with the Big Bang theory b/c it's convenient. Okay now, it all started with the big bang theory in some peoples opinions, but what preceeded that and what created it. Everything had to come from somewhere, but since mass can neither be created nor destroyed where did all of this mass come from? It just makes no sense unless you factor in supernatural power that we're incapable of comprehending. Just my .02.

 

[Knowbull]

Oh this is good! Good thoughts. IMO nothing preceded it and nothing created it, absolute zero.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Oh this is good! Good thoughts. IMO nothing preceded it and nothing created it, absolute zero.

Where did it come from then?

 

[Iron Warrior]

Back to the FDA, what the hell do we have to do to prevent this bastardization of democracy ? I hope I don't have to buy vitamins from crackheads in a downtown alley. How many people really know about this crap going on ? Is it just very few of us ? Why aren't Vitamin Shoppe, GNC, Vitamin World coming out with a campaign to defend supplemets ? This would be a perfect time to flex oour muscle in a way. I'm never voting for a Dem Or Rep ever again based on the trends I see, so fucking sad

BTW, can we legitimatilly sue the FDA for creating a health hazard to citizens of the United States who are using these supplements safely ?

 

[griz145389]

Dr. D, I am interested in that bible code program, would you send it to me?

 

[Knowbull]

it preceded from zero, absolutely nothing

 

[Matthew D]

Keep it on topic gentlemen or start a new topic.. FDA and God don't mix..

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Keep it on topic gentlemen or start a new topic.. FDA and God don't mix..

Good point. A much better combination would be FDA and fresh ****

 

[CDB]

Where did it come from then?

You're locking your viewpoint a bit I think. At the time of the Big Bang space and time are so warped that terms like before and after in a conventional sense aren't really meaningful. "Before the Big Bang" doesn't really make sense if there is no time to speak of as we know it, nor does asking where it came from because there quite possibly was no "where" to speak of. No one really knows why time runs 'forward' instead of the other way around. No one really knows why the three spacial dimensions we know of are greatly expanded and why the postulated remaining spacial dimensions are so compressed, and if in fact they always have been that way, or aren't different in different areas of the universe right now. No one knows if String Theory or Quantum Loop Gravity or whatever other theory really explains things or is just some contruct that scratches the surface and offers an accurate description but a faulty explanation. We quite literally might live in a universe that's little more than a surface disturbance on a massive ten dimensional membrane that wanders its way through a much greater and more inexplicable universe. The universe is far too complex to anthropomorphize and force into a human frame of reference of before and after, here and there. You have to think outside those bounds.

 

[CDB]

Back to the FDA, what the hell do we have to do to prevent this bastardization of democracy ? I hope I don't have to buy vitamins from crackheads in a downtown alley. How many people really know about this crap going on ? Is it just very few of us ? Why aren't Vitamin Shoppe, GNC, Vitamin World coming out with a campaign to defend supplemets ? This would be a perfect time to flex oour muscle in a way. I'm never voting for a Dem Or Rep ever again based on the trends I see, so fucking sad

BTW, can we legitimatilly sue the FDA for creating a health hazard to citizens of the United States who are using these supplements safely ?

Nope. By keeping dangerous vitamins away from us they're keeping us safer. I honestly don't think you can stop such government encroachments. Beauracrats love their power too much, need to justify their budgets, and most people honestly don't care enough to do anything about it. We live in a nation where 1 in 3 people is obese. While there are some who are health conscious, it sure as hell ain't a majority. I think the only hope with this vitamin idiocy is older people. Them plus everyone else who uses supplements might be able to create enough of a stink to get the FDA to back down. So get AARP on our side and we might get through this. Otherwise be prepared to smoke your multivitamins in a glass pipe.

 

[jmh80]

I read that the FDA would like to have the ability to ban a supplement brought to the market after '94 until said supp was deemed safe.

So, taking Designer for example, the cost of bring the 7-OH-Diprop to the market just went up 2x-maybe 4x due to the clinical testing required to prove it safe.

I just want to know what amount should i be stocking up on for my supps? 5 kg of CEE, HMB? How would we seriously gauge the amount of supps to stock up on? I'd probably be dropping 10g's at a time to get enough.

 

[Knowbull]

Hopefully and realistically, it wont come to that, there are so many elderly people that have been refered to therapeutic vitamin use by their physicians its common practice and has been for over a decade. There are many factors that set off red flags for the FDA, one of them is when companies advertise "drug like" results, another is when people start banging the stuff. Finally the factor that really gets em hoppin is Big Profits. These are just my opinions on this. If they do ban vitamins there will be many compassionate Physicians that will prescribe in abundance. My suggestion to those concerned is to join a vitamin organization that supplys Physicians, vitamins and information, there is safety and power in numbers.

 

[DR.D]

Dr. D, I am interested in that bible code program, would you send it to me?

Yes Sir! Send me your email addy and I'm mail you a disk or email you the program, it shouldn't take long to download, it's a relatively small program. [email protected] I have never had the gift of bringing people to Christ, I'm not a good speaker, and I don't like to "preach" so forgive me for starting all this.

CDB, I know what a turn-off it is when those born-again guys dog you at work. I'm not one of those types at all. Please don't call it quits on God yet just because we've been unable to convince you otherwise. There is absolute truth, and you are actually pretty close IMO with your ten dimensional theory! There are at least that many. :thumbsup:

As for the FDA, I think in order to regulate something as a "drug" it must be proven safe and effective. I don't see them making vitamins drugs generally, but supps may be redefined and if a safety threat is shown (remember l-tryptophan?) they can stop it without investigation just by recommendation. But it usually comes down to cash or loss of in other cases.

 

[g4ud1n]

Keep it on topic gentlemen or start a new topic.. FDA and God don't mix..

Our President might think they do!

 

[Matthew D]

sorry I had to lock this due to a few individual's inability to stay on topic..