Hemoglobin Too High to Donate Blood?

[MadStax]

I just visited a Red Cross donation center and they refused to let me donate because my hemoglobin was over 20 (21.4) and I've just been on my TRT dose for a few months now. I tried to explain to them that after the donation, my hemoglobin would be fine, it's high because I need to get rid of some blood!

What do I do? Is there a way to get it a bit lower so I can donate? Or, maybe some other workaround?

 

[Ryan40]

I feel you. I would try another source to donate. There are a few diffrent companies. Mine gets thick too. So I am open to any suggestions to help lower hemoglobin.

 

[MadStax]

I feel you. I would try another source to donate. There are a few diffrent companies. Mine gets thick too. So I am open to any suggestions to help lower hemoglobin.

I should add that I fell like a trash can like this! I'll see if I can find a way to donate through my clinic. I didn't think that there may be other places to do it, but I bet you're right!

 

[Mikereyn513]

That's crazy! I've never heard of something like that

 

[Beau]

Yes, if the count is too high - RC will not take a donation. I don't know the cost of a therapeutic phlebotomy (if it isn't covered by insurance), but that could be an option. Your MD would have to order that.

In the mean time, I would drink a lot of water - being dehydrated can influence the numbers to your detriment.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Not sure where your located, but Life South may be another option to donate.

 

[kisaj]

There are other blood centers that will take it if it's higher. In the mean time, hydrate regularly and look into supplements that lower iron like IP6 and quercitin. Some of us just naturally are more sensitive to erythropoietin. Even blood donation will only bring it down to probably 20ish.

Not sure what your dose is, but you may need to look at lowering it, possibly changing protocols such as moving to subq, injecting more frequently, etc..

Look to add in nattokinase which will help blood viscosity and reduce chance of clots.

 

[MadStax]

Yes, if the count is too high - RC will not take a donation. I don't know the cost of a therapeutic phlebotomy (if it isn't covered by insurance), but that could be an option. Your MD would have to order that.

In the mean time, I would drink a lot of water - being dehydrated can influence the numbers to your detriment.

Yeah, I was probably dehydrated, but it's been 8-9 months since my last donation. I think it's just normal for me to run that high if I don't bleed myself regularly.

 

[MadStax]

There are other blood centers that will take it if it's higher. In the mean time, hydrate regularly and look into supplements that lower iron like IP6 and quercitin. Some of us just naturally are more sensitive to erythropoietin. Even blood donation will only bring it down to probably 20ish.

Not sure what your dose is, but you may need to look at lowering it, possibly changing protocols such as moving to subq, injecting more frequently, etc..

Look to add in nattokinase which will help blood viscosity and reduce chance of clots.

I pin daily and my dose is 0.1ml per day of 250mg Test E. I guess I could shoot for a slightly lower dose, but this currently keeps me at the high end of normal. My bloods always look good aside from the high reds and hemoglobin.

I scheduled a visit with my GP for Wednesday. I'll see what they recommend and go from there. Thanks for the recommendations!

 

[kisaj]

I pin daily and my dose is 0.1ml per day of 250mg Test E. I guess I could shoot for a slightly lower dose, but this currently keeps me at the high end of normal. My bloods always look good aside from the high reds and hemoglobin.

I scheduled a visit with my GP for Wednesday. I'll see what they recommend and go from there. Thanks for the recommendations!

Follow up here if you don’t mind. No doubt others are dealing with the same and it’s always good to expand knowledge if you hear anything differently.

 

[Beau]

Yeah, I was probably dehydrated, but it's been 8-9 months since my last donation. I think it's just normal for me to run that high if I don't bleed myself regularly.

If you can, consider doing a "double red" or "power red" donation. It reduces the red blood cells 2X, and the donation cycle goes from every 56 days, to every 112 days.

kisaj nailed it with his nattokinase recommendation. Also, if you supplement with D3, MAKE SURE you are supplementing with K2.

 

[MadStax]

If you can, consider doing a "double red" or "power red" donation. It reduces the red blood cells 2X, and the donation cycle goes from every 56 days, to every 112 days.

kisaj nailed it with his nattokinase recommendation. Also, if you supplement with D3, MAKE SURE you are supplementing with K2.

I'll ask about the power reds, but it seems to me donating a normal amount more frequently would be more beneficial to try to keep things stable? I just got tied up and put it off way too long!

I've gone ahead and ordered the Nattokinase and MK-7 K2. Both sound like something I should be taking, so thank you!

 

[MadStax]

Dr ordered a bunch of blood tests, including a smear. She agreed that phlebotomy is the best therapy and was surprised that the upper limit for donation was so low at 20. She didn't seem overly concerned with my 21.4 and didn't recommend doing anything different til we have the results. I should know by Friday, hopefully!

 

[kisaj]

Well, I will say that it’s nice to see you have a doc that doesn’t push the panic button and overreact. But, you definitely need to get that number down. Good luck.

 

[MadStax]

Well, I will say that it’s nice to see you have a doc that doesn’t push the panic button and overreact. But, you definitely need to get that number down. Good luck.

Honestly, I was kind of hoping she'd at least schedule a larger blood draw right away, but I agree that it's cool she didn't freak out and try something drastic! I think doctors are now more worried about the HMO than being sued, so they treat as little as possible.

 

[Rocket3015]

Double you water intake 24 hours before you donation appointment, you should not have a problem

 

[MadStax]

I think dehydration was a large factor. The results were better yesterday morning, but still not great. Hemoglobin was at 19.4 (down from 21.4) and I was fasted, had only a little water before the draw. My guess is that I was severely dehydrated on Monday morning when I went to donate. I'll try again soon!

 

[Beau]

For fasting bloodwork, you are free to drink water or have black coffee prior to the phlebotomy. Like you, I had recent test result impacted by not having enough liquid, and I have to go back and redo the test.

Your MD knows better than me, but - usually - Hemoglobin above 17.0 is a trigger for concern (that "trigger" may differ somewhat if you live at a higher altitude).

 

[Rocket3015]

I have donated over 5 gallons of blood in my life time, my Hematocrit is always high, a gallon of water the night before and as much as you can drink the day of, finding a vein will be easier, the blood will flow quicker and you Hematocrit and Hemoglobin will not come into question!

 

[mrtokodachijudo95]

If you can, consider doing a "double red" or "power red" donation. It reduces the red blood cells 2X, and the donation cycle goes from every 56 days, to every 112 days.

kisaj nailed it with his nattokinase recommendation. Also, if you supplement with D3, MAKE SURE you are supplementing with K2.

Hi - Curiosity here , what is the benefit of the K2?

 

[Mathb33]

honestly it’s quite exaggerated online when hemoglobin and hematocrit becomes a risk usually over 16 is "high" but really I wouldn’t worry unless over 19. Hematocrit usually over 52-53 you’ll see people worried but I honestly there’s a lot of endurance and oxygen benefits being a bit on the end high.

general rules of thumb (obviously can vary a bit)
Hemoglobin x3 = hematocrit.

that would mean your hematocrit would be around 60 is your hemoglobins are 20. At this point bro that’s some thick ass blood and it’s just making your heart work excessively harder.

go see a doctor and tell him exactly that, they refused you etc and he’ll have you dump blood.

Ive struggled quite a bit with the same issues juste not as bad as you and personally the only thing except drugs that managed to keep it lower is a lot of cardio. Mine would always be 18-19 and then I would donate and it would go down to 16-17 and I would donate every 3-4 months. Until I started not just doing cardio during preps but doing 30 mins + even during bulks. Also avoiding eq and drugs like that + nattokinase 4000iu (don’t just take 2000) Somehow ever since doing that mine stays around 16. 6-7 liters of water a day, with enough good sodium to actually keep that water and be hydrated and not just flush it out. People don’t have enough pink salt in their diet.

 

[Mathb33]

For fasting bloodwork, you are free to drink water or have black coffee prior to the phlebotomy. Like you, I had recent test result impacted by not having enough liquid, and I have to go back and redo the test.

Your MD knows better than me, but - usually - Hemoglobin above 17.0 is a trigger for concern (that "trigger" may differ somewhat if you live at a higher altitude).

For sedentary people sure. Any endurance athlete will have high hemoglobins and high hematocrit as it’s quite a boost to performance.

17 is basically the perfect spot performance / risk ratio. I would argue 18 is perfectly fine too if you dig a bit into sports studies. That would bring hematocrit around 51-52. Perfectly fine.

hemo at 19-20 which brings would hematocrit around 60 is of serious concern long term that’s for damn sure though.

 

[Mathb33]

I think dehydration was a large factor. The results were better yesterday morning, but still not great. Hemoglobin was at 19.4 (down from 21.4) and I was fasted, had only a little water before the draw. My guess is that I was severely dehydrated on Monday morning when I went to donate. I'll try again soon!

19.4 is still horrible bro. Get it fixed get on some serious cardio daily, get leaner if you’re not 15% of below and get on nattokinase

 

[Beau]

Hi - Curiosity here , what is the benefit of the K2?

Not to duck the issue, but it really is worth studying. It does several things, including (somehow, almost magically) ensuring that calcium winds up in bones, not in your arterial lining/endothelial layer. And a lot more.

 

[mrtokodachijudo95]

Not to duck the issue, but it really is worth studying. It does several things, including (somehow, almost magically) ensuring that calcium winds up in bones, not in your arterial lining/endothelial layer. And a lot more.

Ok thx I’ll do my due diligence, Beau!

 

[Rocket3015]

If you can, consider doing a "double red" or "power red" donation. It reduces the red blood cells 2X, and the donation cycle goes from every 56 days, to every 112 days.

Also, if you supplement with D3, MAKE SURE you are supplementing with K2.

@sns8778

Has you covered with this!

 

[MadStax]

EPO was 15, well within normal range. Hemoglobin a1c was 5.6 which is the top end of normal. All other markers look great! Liver is totally fine, lipids are excellent, thyroid perfect, hormones right where I want them.

This morning I did a Power Red donation at RC. I drank 3+ liters of water before bed and another two this morning. Hemoglobin was 20.0 dead when they tested before the donation! I already feel a bit better, but that's probably psychosomatic. Hopefully the Dr has a better answer moving forward.

Thanks for that all the help and suggestions!

 

[Beau]

EPO was 15, well within normal range. Hemoglobin a1c was 5.6 which is the top end of normal. All other markers look great! Liver is totally fine, lipids are excellent, thyroid perfect, hormones right where I want them.

This morning I did a Power Red donation at RC. I drank 3+ liters of water before bed and another two this morning. Hemoglobin was 20.0 dead when they tested before the donation! I already feel a bit better, but that's probably psychosomatic. Hopefully the Dr has a better answer moving forward.

Thanks for that all the help and suggestions!

Maybe I am too easy amused, but I think the Power Red process is really cool (no pun intended).

 

[MadStax]

Maybe I am too easy amused, but I think the Power Red process is really cool (no pun intended).

Honestly, it was all way faster than I anticipated and it is kind of cool to watch it. It pumps saline back into you, so you feel really hydrated and refreshed after! I was only there for like an hour and half of that was waiting to get hooked up. If I gotta do that every few months I'm down. It's definitely better than a normal donation imo.

 

[sns8778]

Here's a way to be able to donate/give blood in order to get Hemoglobin down that a lot of people don't realize.

Places like the Red Cross, blood banks, and donation drives, they are set up for people to donate blood for them to be able to use, as in to supply blood banks for for people that need blood transfusion.

So, if the blood isn't usable, for whatever reason, then that isn't part of what they're there for. Sometimes people that get rejected can take it the wrong way, but it isn't that they are just against helping you out, its that they have some laws that dictate what they can and can't do in different circumstances.

If anyone runs into that, what you need to do is get a prescription for a blood draw and disposal from your physician, and most physicians can tell you where to go in your area for it - and then they will be able to draw your blood and dispose of it.

I hope that makes sense and helps anyone that may run into this.

As part of my endocrinology condition, my hemoglobin has run high at times when they had tried me on certain things, and I'd ran into that and that's how I learned about it. I used to think I could just go give blood, and it initially bothered me when I was rejected bc of it, but once I found out the full story and understood the why part, it made sense.

 

[MadStax]

Here's a way to be able to donate/give blood in order to get Hemoglobin down that a lot of people don't realize.

Places like the Red Cross, blood banks, and donation drives, they are set up for people to donate blood for them to be able to use, as in to supply blood banks for for people that need blood transfusion.

So, if the blood isn't usable, for whatever reason, then that isn't part of what they're there for. Sometimes people that get rejected can take it the wrong way, but it isn't that they are just against helping you out, its that they have some laws that dictate what they can and can't do in different circumstances.

If anyone runs into that, what you need to do is get a prescription for a blood draw and disposal from your physician, and most physicians can tell you where to go in your area for it - and then they will be able to draw your blood and dispose of it.

I hope that makes sense and helps anyone that may run into this.

As part of my endocrinology condition, my hemoglobin has run high at times when they had tried me on certain things, and I'd ran into that and that's how I learned about it. I used to think I could just go give blood, and it initially bothered me when I was rejected bc of it, but once I found out the full story and understood the why part, it made sense.

Great info, thanks for sharing!

I think being super hydrated helped get me over the line. Also, for some reason it will be lower in the morning when you're fasted, so try to make the appointment as early as possible. I also used a few scoops of sugar free electrolyte powder. I began taking the 4,000 fu of Nattokinase on Wednesday, but I'm not certain that helped.

 

[sns8778]

Great info, thanks for sharing!

I think being super hydrated helped get me over the line. Also, for some reason it will be lower in the morning when you're fasted, so try to make the appointment as early as possible. I also used a few scoops of sugar free electrolyte powder. I began taking the 4,000 fu of Nattokinase on Wednesday, but I'm not certain that helped.

Nattokinase can help some people, but not sure that it would have helped that quick.

I can't use Nattokinase myself. I'm anaphylactically allergic to soy protein (like some people are to peanuts), and Nattokinase is derived from soy. There are some brands that claim to be soy free, but what they really mean is that it has a low ppm of soy, which may be fine for most people even with mild soy allergies, but mine is life threatening, so I have to avoid that one.

Rocket posted about about Cardiovascular Support XT, and it has helped mine dramatically. I started it back in Feb. and my number was down by 2.9 points on my bloodwork in May; which for me, having a history of problems with mine, was pretty incredible for me.

 

[CroLifter]

Self phlebotomy is what I do. 18g needle and 1 ml syringe.
Baby aspirin the night before.
If you are a lifter then it's pretty easy to find a good vein. Go in At a shallow angle, push slowly until it starts dripping (plunger removed) . Disinfect of course like you would before a blood draw.

I am no longer eligible for blood donation hence I do it myself. Usually 200ml twice in a span of a few weeks, rather than 450ml at once like they do at the clinic. Nothing easier.

Turn on some vigorousSteve (or yt channel of choice) and let it drip .



**Just be very VERY careful if you have a tendency to pass out.**

 

[MadStax]

Self phlebotomy is what I do. 18g needle and 1 ml syringe.
Baby aspirin the night before.
I am no longer eligible for blood donation hence I do it myself. Usually 200ml twice in a span of a few weeks, rather than 450ml at once like they do at the clinic. Nothing easier.

Turn on some vigorousSteve (or yt channel of choice) and let it drip .



**Just be very VERY careful if you have a tendency to pass out.**

Oh, I definitely looked into it. I'm considering it, but there's a big jump from pinning a muscle to creating an IV line. I'm not sure I could slide a 16ga needle into my vein without over/under shooting the mark. I have zero training on it and it scares me more than IM or sub-q applications.

What are you using to do this yourself at home? How did you acquire the skills and knowledge?

 

[CroLifter]

Oh, I definitely looked into it. I'm considering it, but there's a big jump from pinning a muscle to creating an IV line. I'm not sure I could slide a 16ga needle into my vein without over/under shooting the mark. I have zero training on it and it scares me more than IM or sub-q applications.

What are you using to do this yourself at home? How did you acquire the skills and knowledge?

Just an 18g and 1ml syringe.

I simply tried, watched a few vids. You won't puncture the vein through the other side if you stop as it starts to dribble out.

Not necessary to put anything in place, I simply hold the syringe and needle in the position, it takes 5-10 minutes depending on how viscous the blood is.

Going in at a very shallow angle. Pointy part of the needle down.


I understand itsscary but its even scarier for me thinking aboutmy heart trying to pump that viscosity through all the tiny veins...can't be good.
Hence I had no choice.

 

[MadStax]

Just an 18g and 1ml syringe.

I simply tried, watched a few vids. You won't puncture the vein through the other side if you stop as it starts to dribble out.

Not necessary to put anything in place, I simply hold the syringe and needle in the position, it takes 5-10 minutes depending on how viscous the blood is.

Going in at a very shallow angle. Pointy part of the needle down.


I understand itsscary but its even scarier for me thinking aboutmy heart trying to pump that viscosity through all the tiny veins...can't be good.
Hence I had no choice.

Yeah, my daily cardio was really starting to hurt! I'm sure I took some weeks off my life. I just did an hour of cardio and already I can tell it's easier! I'll check my blood pressure later, but I'm assuming that is down as well. I have a box of 100 18ga needles and at least that many 1ml syringes. I'll give it a shot!

How do your monitor your hemoglobin levels?

 

[Beau]

Yeah, my daily cardio was really starting to hurt! ..... I'll check my blood pressure later, but I'm assuming that is down as well.

Checking BP is a really good idea. In case you have been getting headaches or a "pounding feeling" in your temples, it was probably high BP caused by "thick blood".

Good luck.

 

[MadStax]

Checking BP is a really good idea. In case you have been getting headaches or a "pounding feeling" in your temples, it was probably high BP caused by "thick blood".

Good luck.

Yeah, I was definitely getting the headaches and some pain/numbness in my legs and arms when working hard. My blood pressure was staying around 130/90 though, which is fairly normal for me.

 

[CroLifter]

When my hct gets too high I wake up with a numb arm (even a leg sometjmes!) Every now and then.

It never happens when it's below 50...ok maybe once a year, but not like twice per week.

I can only imagine what that tells about my circulation. That's when I say f it and go drain myself some.

 

[Rocket3015]

Rocket posted about about Cardiovascular Support XT, and it has helped mine dramatically. I started it back in Feb. and my number was down by 2.9 points on my bloodwork in May; which for me, having a history of problems with mine, was pretty incredible for me.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Yeah, my daily cardio was really starting to hurt! I'm sure I took some weeks off my life. I just did an hour of cardio and already I can tell it's easier! I'll check my blood pressure later, but I'm assuming that is down as well. I have a box of 100 18ga needles and at least that many 1ml syringes. I'll give it a shot!

How do your monitor your hemoglobin levels?

I don't think self phlebotomy is a good idea at all. *if* something goes wrong, what's to stop the blood from coming out? Get a prescription for doctor ordered phlebotomy if you need it. Sorry @CroLifter but I disagree here.

 

[Rocket3015]

I don't think self phlebotomy is a good idea at all. *if* something goes wrong, what's to stop the blood from coming out? Get a prescription for doctor ordered phlebotomy if you need it. Sorry @CroLifter but I disagree here.

If anyone does do this, please have a spotter.............It could save your life!!

 

[CroLifter]

I don't think self phlebotomy is a good idea at all. *if* something goes wrong, what's to stop the blood from coming out? Get a prescription for doctor ordered phlebotomy if you need it. Sorry @CroLifter but I disagree here.

Understood. I myself am more of a diy, do it anyway person. I wouldn't have done it if I had other choice, not to mention that by donating blood you are actually helping someone, but like I said they don't want my blood so

 

[MadStax]

A little update. I definitely feel better! Not 100%, but damn I didn't realize how **** I felt! I guess it snuck up on me slowly. No news from the Dr except to confirm that it isn't Polycythemia. Surprisingly, it doesn't appear to be from the Test, as my EPO is fairly low? She asked a couple of experts to consult. I'll update when I have more of an idea what's going on and anything that might help others.

 

[MadStax]

My hemoglobin today tested at 16.1 and I didn't do any excess hydration, so I guess that's fairly accurate. Still slightly high, but within normal and certainly a safe place to be! That's more than 5 grams per litre less than where I was a week ago before the Power Red donation. I will check monthly, more often when on a blast. Hopefully my experience here will encourage others to donate and check their blood more often!

 

[Mathb33]

My hemoglobin today tested at 16.1 and I didn't do any excess hydration, so I guess that's fairly accurate. Still slightly high, but within normal and certainly a safe place to be! That's more than 5 grams per litre less than where I was a week ago before the Power Red donation. I will check monthly, more often when on a blast. Hopefully my experience here will encourage others to donate and check their blood more often!

That’s awesome. Greats news

now try to keep it between 16-18 and you’re fine bro

 

[Rocket3015]

Just remember, Hydration is always your friend !!

 

[CroLifter]

Getting a sleep study just to be sure would also be a good idea IMHO.

Although for some guys low doses of test shoot up red cells over time, myself included. However I snore, so it probably is related at least partially.

 

[MadStax]

Getting a sleep study just to be sure would also be a good idea IMHO.

Although for some guys low doses of test shoot up red cells over time, myself included. However I snore, so it probably is related at least partially.

I go for more tests tomorrow. My watch has never detected snoring, but my pulse ox does sometimes get down to 95-96% at night, so possible there is slight apnea? I don't think that's enough to cause this though.

The part that makes me fairly suspicious is my EPO being dead center of the normal range. The mechanism of high hemoglobin/hematocrit with anabolic use is high EPO. I pin daily and since my last donation I only ran one very mild cycle of 350 TE and 560 Mast E for 12 weeks, ending in March. Nothing oral, no ancillaries, just that. If that's enough to spike my hemoglobin that high my career is over!

 

[kisaj]

If you are seeing ranges in the 95-96% range alone, that is not anything related to sleep apnea, those are normal levels. More importantly, you need to find out how often it might drop below 95% because that is what helps determine. In general it's 5-10 times per hour to be considered mild sleep apnea.