Answered Help please...rad140/4AD cycle w/bloods

Luomo88

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Looking for some advice in regards to a proper pct given my levels. I have both nolva and clomid on hand. What would be a good dose/length? Wasn’t sure if 20/20/10/10 nolva was a bit excessive...or if clomid would be better. I realize test level didn’t change much, which I attribute to the 4AD. But my LH level is half of what it was before cycle and that’s what I’m concerned with. Also concerned with tanking my e2 since it’s already on the lower end of the “normal” range. Thanks
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Mathb33

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Well everything sounds gtg? Your T didn’t even drop. Your natural T is low though man sucks tbh. You’re gonna have a hard time building muscle or holding onto muscle after a cycle.
 
NoAddedHmones

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Did you get any results from the cycle? my bet you used bunk products tbh.
 
Luomo88

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Well everything sounds gtg? Your T didn’t even drop. Your natural T is low though man sucks tbh. You’re gonna have a hard time building muscle or holding onto muscle after a cycle.
Yeah I know...it’s rough. But that’s what happens when you spend your youth partying too hard. 5 1/2 years sober now. I traded the drugs for the gym. Anyway, my doc is pretty cool. We had talked about trt, so I think it might be time to proceed. My hang up is that I’m only 30 and didn’t want to have to the rest of my life on it but oh well I guess
 
Luomo88

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Did you get any results from the cycle? my bet you used bunk products tbh.
Yes, I got mild results from the cycle. Definitely underwhelming, seeing as I ran it @ 20mg/day. I would say it’s underdosed, which sucks because I purchased from an AM board sponsor. I thought that would assure a good product, but I guess not
 
NoAddedHmones

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Yes, I got mild results from the cycle. Definitely underwhelming, seeing as I ran it @ 20mg/day. I would say it’s underdosed, which sucks because I purchased from an AM board sponsor. I thought that would assure a good product, but I guess not
Lipids and lh/fsh and test should have all been majorly different by the conclusion of the cycle. Yours didnt budge so likely you weren’t actually using anything legit.
 

JoePaul39

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And that’s what I was expecting. Disappointed to say the least. But I guess it’s a lesson learned, where not to purchase from
Which board sponsor was it,Premier Research Essentials or MA Research?
 

JoePaul39

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May be catching a pattern, it was MA Research...2 bottles
Man that really sucks you guys! Sorry to hear that. I am glad it wasn’t Premier because I purchased 2 bottles of their Hexadrone I plan on running.
 
Smont

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Yes, I got mild results from the cycle. Definitely underwhelming, seeing as I ran it @ 20mg/day. I would say it’s underdosed, which sucks because I purchased from an AM board sponsor. I thought that would assure a good product, but I guess not
After a few rounds with rad, myself and a few others have found 20mg is bare minimum for rad
 
Luomo88

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I ran 2 bottles too, so idk what to say. Again just disappointed because I expected more from a board sponsor product
 
Mathb33

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I’d be curious to hear what someone from the company has to say about it...
Before we mention you it makes no sense your levels remained the same you were asking what pct you should do... so if you’re gonna publicity put doubts on someone’s name at least give some kind of proof. Otherwise PM them personally and give them the chance so solve the problem before you go out and ruin their name.
 
Luomo88

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S
Before we mention you it makes no sense your levels remained the same you were asking what pct you should do... so if you’re gonna publicity put doubts on someone’s name at least give some kind of proof. Otherwise PM them personally and give them the chance so solve the problem before you go out and ruin their name.
So running two bottles through an 8 week cycle with before and after bloodwork, showing no difference really, isn’t proof enough? What more would you like to see exactly?
 
Luomo88

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And to be PERFECTLY CLEAR...my objective here was NOT to bash anyone! I’m stating my results with factual proof to back my words. I didn’t come here to bad mouth. I was asking if I needed a pct given my blood results. What followed my question, were more questions which I then answered honestly. That’s all
 
Luomo88

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I will say that I shouldn’t have let the thread get so far off topic. But I have reached out to both Mike and another rep and I’m waiting on reply. So don’t everyone line up to crucify me just quite yet...
 
Mathb33

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So running two bottles through an 8 week cycle with before and after bloodwork, showing no difference really, isn’t proof enough? What more would you like to see exactly?
I meant before talking about such things on an open forum you reach out to the person. Am is an honest company and I’m sure he’ll work something out with you.
 
Luomo88

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So Mike Arnold just got back to me and clarified some doubts that I had. I’m grateful for his quick response and thorough explanation. The fact that he took time out to talk with me speaks volumes to how much he values 100% customer satisfaction. Again I want to be very clear that at no point was I trying to bash MA Research.
 

Mike Arnold

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I also had heard only good things about MA, but the bloodwork doesn’t lie...
OK, I am not addressing this to Luomo88 in particular, but its time for a lesson here, guys. However, before I get to that, I want to point out that the OP and I had a nice phone conversation last night and he now underatands what I am about to tell you here.

First of all, two things were mentioned in this thread--results and bloodwork. I will address both. Let's address results first, as it will only take but a second. Aside from the fact that muscle growth is NEVER a reliable indicator of a product's legitimacy (for obvious reasons, which any semi-educated individual is aware of), results with RAD are MILD AT best. Out of ALL the various SARMs, RAD is at the bottom of the pack when it comes to muscle building potency. It is a step above Osta, but less potent than basically everything else. S23 sits at the top of the heap followed by something like LGD, etc. Keep going down the list and you get to RAD. This is not disputable. It is a fact that can be easily verified by viewing the clinical research. Aside from all that, the OP said he DID see results. He just hopped to gain more, but his progress was right in line with what is normally seen with RAD. I consider 20 mg/day to be the BARE MINIMUM to even see resullts with RAD. Unless someone is a steroid/SARM novice, most people gain little to nothing with 10 mg/day. Heck, we even see people on the boards (who bought from many different companies) saying they barely gained anything with LGD, which is significantly more potent than RAD...and no one bats an eye..yet the OP doesn't blow up and suddenly it is an indicator of illegimacy? The lesson here is--don't expect steroid-like results from SARMs, especially the weaker ones. You may be able to garner moderate sterid-like results from the more powerful SARM cycles, such as 20 mg LGD/day + 20 mg S23/day (reviews of those cycle are posted on this board, along with the sponsor used. :) ), but using single compounds like RAD or Osta--forget about it.

Moving on...

You want to talk about bloodwork? Yes, let's do that...because a couple of you guys are aren't seeing what is actually going on here. The OP got bloods before and after, in which he tested many things. Let's look at his T levels, LH levels and lipids--3 of the most commonly affected markers in steroid/SARM users. When it comes to testosterone and LH from a lab testing standpoint, do you know what the main difference is between the two? Testosterone levels fluctuate significantly through the day and can be affected by many different factors (time of day, training, sleep, diet, etc), while LH levels do not flucuate to the same degree, nor do they necessarily fluctuate in tandem with testosterone levels. In other words, you could have your T levels tested twice in the same day and one reading could be 500, while the other might be 300. This is VERY common...and is even MORE likely to hapoen in those who engage in hard weight training, as a single training session can cause T levels to plummit! Therefore, it is easily possible, depending on the circumstances, to see relatively little variance in one's T levels after a SARM cycle, especially with RAD or Osta...and even more so when they already have a low T level to begin with. It doesn't mean that suppression didn't occur, it just means that one round of bloodwork may have been drawn when T levels were at their peak...and the other round may have been taken during a trough. Again, when dealing with T levels in the 300 range, this is easily possible and happens all the time.

Fortunately, we don't have to rely on just one blood marker to test for HPTA suppression. Look at his LH levels! LH is the FIRST pituitary hormone to be impacted during HPTA suppression...and is responsible for the testes producing testosterone. According to his lab work, his LH levels decreased from 5.3 to 2.6! That's a HUGE decrease--comparable to many moderate steroid cycles and well below normal for someone his age. This is a CLEAR, undeniable sign of significant HPTA suppression! There is no getting around this. No bullshiting. It is what it is. He is significantly suppressed, period. The fact that his T levels only decreased a little bit, in light of his signifciantly suppressed LH levels, does not indicate a lack of suppression. What it indicates is that his T levels were simply fluctuating when he took his test. Otherwise, his LH would not have decreased by 50%! You could test your T levels 4 times in a single day and they would be different every time. Other factors, such as whether or not you trained that day, how much sleep you got, what your diet has been like, etc., will ALL have a dramatic impact on your T reading at that time.

Let's move onto his lipids. Look at his LDL and HDL. Do you know what the most common change in lipids is when someone is using steroids or SARMs? it's the ratio of LDL to HDL, not total lipid levels! This is because steroids/SARM typically cause HDL to go down and LDL levels to rise, leaving the individual at roughly the same total cholesterol level, but with a very differnet LDL to HDL ratio...and that's EXACTLY what happened here!. His HDL went down 10 points and his LDL went up 10 points!

In conclusion, everything we're seeing here is right in line with what we have come to expect from these substances. Nothing is out of the ordinary and his blood work clearly indicates both signifcant HPTA suppression AND the type of lipid alteration that should be occurring.

As far as the product being what it is supposed to be, it was tested at over 98% purity. I go out of my way (and spend a LOT of extra money) to have everything tested...and when I get my next batch of RAD-140 in, the OP was invited to be a co-participant in the next round of lab testing. He has been invited to sit in as a 3rd party, so that he can directly speak to the lab technician regarding the purity results. As always, it will be exactly what it is supposed to be...just like the last batch was. There is a reason my company has such a good reputation for quality all over the Net...and this is it. Unfortunately, when people speak about things they are not educated about there is little I can do other than inform you. Look how many reviews I have right here on this board from various respectable members...with SARMs and other research chems...and you will see nothing but positive reviews everywhere.

On another note, I once had a guy tell me the T3 he bought from me was fake...and that he had bloodwork to prove it (he said this through an email). I am sitting here thinking "Ok, great. I just got this batch in (100's of bottles worth) and am looking at the lab results showing 99%+ purity, yet this guy tells me he has lab work to prove it and is going to make a public issue out of it if I don't refund his money". So, as usual, the only way to get to the bottom of it was to call him, so I did. As it turns out, after reviewing the lab work he forwarded me, the guy didn't even have his T3 levels tested! I am NOT kidding. He didn't even test them. He only tested his T4 levels...and what did they show? Suppression of his T4 levels, which is exactly what one should expect to happen with T3. Even after he realized he was wrong, he offered no apology. He was clearly angry about being wrong and instead of admitting it, he took it out on me (despite kissing this guy's ass for 60 minutes) and actually told me that if the T3 was real, his T4 levels should have went up...and then demanded that I send him more T3 or he as going to publicly out me! LOL. Of course, I told him he was wrong about his T4 levels...and then he hung up on me. Obviously, he never posted anything publicly because he knew he was wrong, but ....

...what if I hadn't taken an hour out of my day to call this guy an get the full story? He would have put up a public thread bad-mouthing me on the boards. It would have went something like this... "I bought T3 from Mike Arnold and it was bunk. I have bloods to prove it". End thread. Then I would have had who knows how many people questioning whether or not my T3 is actually real. This is why there is a protocol in place for questions like this. I have a company email for a reason. I should have been contacted at my company email (which I check daily, except the weekends, although I usually check on Saturday and sometimes even Sunday) and had the situation addressed BEFORE a thread like this was posted...because all it takes is a couple ignorant people to make people question a company's product legitimacy. It doesn't matter if the company has a million awesome reviews and no bad reviews (like me); they will hang on that one bad review without even knowing if it was a legitimate gripe or not. Why? Because so many companies HAVE ripped people off--PURPOSELY! This places every other comoany at a disadvantage. As a result, it takes a long time for a company to prove themselves to the communith and gain their trust. As evidenced by the overwhelmingly positive response I have received over the last 3 years of running MA Labs and MA Research, I believe I have accomplished that. Product quality is EXTREMELY important to me...and I have gone to great lengths in an effort to place myself in front of the pack. So, it bothers me to see a thread like this (the first one I have enocuntered since I opened), especially when this question wasn't even brought to me first.

In closing, when I spoke to the OP on the phone, he was a very cool and respectful guy. All I ask is that in the future, if anyone doesn't understand something or has a question of any kind, please just ask me--at my company email, which can be found on the website (click the contact us tab). Thank you. --Mike Arnold.
 
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Mike Arnold

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As far as PCT goes, yes, I would advise it considering your low LH level.
 

Mike Arnold

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To everyone who showed support in this thread, thank you--truly. In regards to the OP, I have invited him to sit-in on the next round of lab testing for RAD130 (I am out of my current batch), so it will be about 4 weeks (it is being made now and then it has to be tested, so it takes a little while).
 
Superload

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To everyone who showed support in this thread, thank you--truly. In regards to the OP, I have invited him to sit-in on the next round of lab testing for RAD130 (I am out of my current batch), so it will be about 4 weeks (it is being made now and then it has to be tested, so it takes a little while).
Love all the knowledge you donate to this forum and your podcasts with Alex! Such an extremely valuable source for us to learn from!
 
Luomo88

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Love all the knowledge you donate to this forum and your podcasts with Alex! Such an extremely valuable source for us to learn from!
Hey where can I find the podcast? Mike made mention of it during our convo yesterday but I forgot to ask how to find it
 
Luomo88

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So now that’s all cleared up, I’d really
Like to get my original question answered!
What’s my best approach for pct? My concern with a higher dose SERM is tanking my e2 (which is around 13.3 pg/ml) Would clomid 25/25/12.5/12.5 do the trick or is that dosed too low?
 

Jeremyk1

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So now that’s all cleared up, I’d really
Like to get my original question answered!
What’s my best approach for pct? My concern with a higher dose SERM is tanking my e2 (which is around 13.3 pg/ml) Would clomid 25/25/12.5/12.5 do the trick or is that dosed too low?
A SERM won’t tank your E2. They bind receptors, but will minimally effect blood levels. If anything, blood estrogen could, maybe, in theory, go up due to decreased estrogen signaling because the SERM is blocking receptors.

Clomid is often considered more potent at stimulating the HPTA, that’s what I’ve always used. 25mg should be enough. You could do 50 the first week or two, but I’ve always stuck to 25.
 
Luomo88

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How much 4ad did you run as your base. About to do this same cycle
375mg/day. The product I used was 125mg/per dose. I took (1) every six hours while awake. In the future I would probably run more but that was all I had to go on this time around. It did the trick though as far as keeping lethargy and such at bay
 

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