Help Needed: Bloodwork 1year post HPTA Restart after HRT

[plymouth city]

I would be careful, you do not want testing, you want good reputable testing.

I got bad vibes about RheinLabs.
I go with Genova Diagnostics former Great Smokies.
Will report on my experience.

My Metabolic Analysis Profile and Cellular energy Profile will have to wait unil early October.
I just got a kit for the test.
Per instructions there is rather long (over four day) body cleanup period before one is ready to pee into test tube.
I cannot arrange for this per my current schedule.

Hopefully in mean time the test kit for EstroEssence will get to my home.
So I will do all three at the same time.

I have heard great things about genova as well.

Urine testing is great. If you can go with them, do so.

 

[BigAk]

I got bad vibes about RheinLabs.

Hi Jan.... Would you please elaborate on this one??... Interesting...

I have never used them.... because the would not file through my insurance, and I couldn't afford to pay out of pocket.

 

[JanSz]

Hi Jan.... Would you please elaborate on this one??... Interesting...

I have never used them.... because the would not file through my insurance, and I couldn't afford to pay out of pocket.

There was some posting on confusing and erroneaous results from RheinLabs

Their web site is dry, very little info.

Some reports on non-existent 16α-Hydroxyestrone

Not much, all together.

But I like Genova Diagnostics.

In Early October I will be doing three tests at Genova.
Will post my results and overall experience.

The EstroEssence check the following 11 (eleven) indicators:

Estrone (24hr urine)Male 3.00-12.00 mcg/24 hr
Estradiol (24hr urine)Male1.50-6.00 mcg/24 hr
Estriol (24hr urine)Male 3.00-28.50 mcg/24 hr

2-Hydroxyestrone (24hr urine) 0.26-13.68 mcg/24 hr
2-Methoxyestrone (24hr urine) 0.34-9.03 mcg/24 hr
16α-Hydroxyestrone (24hr urine) 0.25-7.89 mcg/24 hr
4-Hydroxyestrone (24hr urine) 0.33-1.95 mcg/24 hr
4-Methoxyestrone (24hr urine) 0.40 0.20-1.60 mcg/24 hr
2-Hydroxyestrone/16α-Hydroxestrone Ratio (24hr urine)0.94-1.56 Ratio
2-Methoxyestrone/2-Hydroxyestrone Ratio (24hr urine) 0.11-4.00 Ratio
4-Methoxyestrone /4-Hydroxyestrone Ratio (24hr urine) 0.18-3.60 Ratio
=========================================================================


http://www.gdx.net/images/reportpdf/EstroEssence.pdf
Genova Diagnostics EstroEssence

 

[BigAk]

Plymouth and all,

On the Dermacrine site, they talk about something call "cortisol dominance".. What is that?? and could it be the reason why my adrenals are not producing enough DHEA??

 

[BigAk]

I still haven't heard from my GP in regards to doing saliva tests... I'm losing my patience.. I am thinking I might as well forget about him... I think my next step is to buy Dermacrine and do bloodwork later on my own.

 

[plymouth city]

Plymouth and all,

On the Dermacrine site, they talk about something call "cortisol dominance".. What is that?? and could it be the reason why my adrenals are not producing enough DHEA??

No doubt it could be a reason.

Cortisol and DHEA are opposing forces.

DHEA keeps cortisol in check.

 

[BigAk]

Plymouth...

Just got my Resveratrol today from the company you suggested.. I am already impressed with their customer service... Although I ordered the R-500, when I opened the package it turned out they made a mistake and sent me the R-300... Called and talked to the president Anthony, he was very apologetic, told me to keep the bottle and he'd rush me the right bottle of R-500... Talking about excellent cutomer service..

BTW.. When is the best time to take the stuff?? AM, PM, with food?? etc...

Thank you for pointing them out to me..

 

[hardasnails1973]

Plymouth...

Just got my Resveratrol today from the company you suggested.. I am already impressed with their customer service... Although I ordered the R-500, when I opened the package it turned out they made a mistake and sent me the R-300... Called and talked to the president Anthony, he was very apologetic, told me to keep the bottle and he'd rush me the right bottle of R-500... Talking about excellent cutomer service..

BTW.. When is the best time to take the stuff?? AM, PM, with food?? etc...

Thank you for pointing them out to me..

Take it am with food all at one pop do not spread it out at all.
is it 100% reservatrol or is it 50% reservatrol. I take longevity its a company from enzyamtic therapy and its 100%.
I take 250 mgs a day :drunk:

 

[plymouth city]

Take it am with food all at one pop do not spread it out at all.
is it 100% reservatrol or is it 50% reservatrol. I take longevity its a company from enzyamtic therapy and its 100%.
I take 250 mgs a day :drunk:

This is right.

With fatty food, like most supps. I like peanutbutter and fish oil.

It is 100percent trans RSV. 500mg per pill. How do you like that monster :lol:

 

[BigAk]

Long-term low-dose dehydroepiandrosterone replacement therapy in aging males with par

Long-term low-dose dehydroepiandrosterone replacement therapy in aging males with partial androgen deficiency.

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEAS) age-related withdrawal is very likely to be involved in the aging process and the onset of age-related diseases, giving rise to the question of whether preventing or compensating the decline of these steroids may have endocrine and clinical benefits. The aim of the present trial was to evaluate the endocrine, neuroendocrine and clinical consequences of a long-term (1 year), low-dose (25 mg/day) replacement therapy in a group of aging men who presented the clinical characteristics of partial androgen deficiency (PADAM). Circulating DHEA, DHEAS, androstenedione, total testosterone and free testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), progesterone, 17-hydroxyprogesterone, allopregnanolone, estrone, estradiol, sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), cortisol, follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), luteinizing hormone (LH), growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) levels were evaluated monthly to assess the endocrine effects of the therapy, while beta-endorphin values were used as a marker of the neuroendocrine effects. A Kupperman questionnaire was performed to evaluate the subjective symptoms before and after treatment. The results showed a great modification of the endocrine profile; with the exception of cortisol levels, which remained unchanged, DHEA, DHEAS, androstenedione, total and free testosterone, DHT, progesterone, 17-hydroxyprogesterone, estrone, estradiol, GH, IGF-1 and beta-endorphin levels increased significantly with respect to baseline values, while FSH, LH and SHBG levels showed a significant decrease. The Kupperman score indicated a progressive improvement in mood, fatigue and joint pain. In conclusion, the present study demonstrates that 25 mg/day of DHEA is able to cause significant changes in the hormonal profile and clinical symptoms and can counteract the age-related decline of endocrine and neuroendocrine functions. Restoring DHEA levels to young adult values seems to benefit the age-related decline in physiological functions but, however promising, placebo-controlled trials are required to confirm these preliminary results.

PMID: 15672938 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[plymouth city]

Long-term low-dose dehydroepiandrosterone replacement therapy in aging males with partial androgen deficiency.

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEAS) age-related withdrawal is very likely to be involved in the aging process and the onset of age-related diseases, giving rise to the question of whether preventing or compensating the decline of these steroids may have endocrine and clinical benefits. The aim of the present trial was to evaluate the endocrine, neuroendocrine and clinical consequences of a long-term (1 year), low-dose (25 mg/day) replacement therapy in a group of aging men who presented the clinical characteristics of partial androgen deficiency (PADAM). Circulating DHEA, DHEAS, androstenedione, total testosterone and free testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), progesterone, 17-hydroxyprogesterone, allopregnanolone, estrone, estradiol, sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), cortisol, follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), luteinizing hormone (LH), growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) levels were evaluated monthly to assess the endocrine effects of the therapy, while beta-endorphin values were used as a marker of the neuroendocrine effects. A Kupperman questionnaire was performed to evaluate the subjective symptoms before and after treatment. The results showed a great modification of the endocrine profile; with the exception of cortisol levels, which remained unchanged, DHEA, DHEAS, androstenedione, total and free testosterone, DHT, progesterone, 17-hydroxyprogesterone, estrone, estradiol, GH, IGF-1 and beta-endorphin levels increased significantly with respect to baseline values, while FSH, LH and SHBG levels showed a significant decrease. The Kupperman score indicated a progressive improvement in mood, fatigue and joint pain. In conclusion, the present study demonstrates that 25 mg/day of DHEA is able to cause significant changes in the hormonal profile and clinical symptoms and can counteract the age-related decline of endocrine and neuroendocrine functions. Restoring DHEA levels to young adult values seems to benefit the age-related decline in physiological functions but, however promising, placebo-controlled trials are required to confirm these preliminary results.

PMID: 15672938 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Good study.

The decrease in FSH and LH basically shows that it is suppressive, over time. Which actually means, well, it works, LOL. :head:

I know some had disagreements with me on that issue(forgot who it was).

 

[BigAk]

Good study.

The decrease in FSH and LH basically shows that it is suppressive, over time. Which actually means, well, it works, LOL. :head:

I know some had disagreements with me on that issue(forgot who it was).

lol ... yea. yea... you're right again..

After discussing Dermacrine extensively with Eric, I've decided to try the Sustain instead.. I will be also supplementing with only 25mg/day of LEF oral DHEA. Then, I'll do blood work to see the results... What do you think PC?

 

[plymouth city]

lol ... yea. yea... you're right again..

After discussing Dermacrine extensively with Eric, I've decided to try the Sustain instead.. I will be also supplementing with only 25mg/day of LEF oral DHEA. Then, I'll do blood work to see the results... What do you think PC?

DHEA is DHEA, be it oral or transdermal. However transdermal is the best way to get it, by far. For a wide variety of reasons, it is better absorbed and breaks down into other metabolites such as T and 7 keto as well. If your worried about suppression, oral will do the same thing. SUPPRESSION MEANS ITS WORKING!!!!! This is what happens.

If your going with DHEA, stick with Dermacrine, just go lower dose. Its more effective and cheaper as well. Try 10 sprays a day.

Plus, it has components of sustain in it(resveratrol,benzoflavone)

 

[DrDelgado]

Thanks for the excellent read coz... Now I feel more educated on the subject. I am not sure what stage I'm in... Could be stage 2 or 3.. However, i don't seem to have any of the symptoms:

Tendency to gain weight and unable to loose it, especially around the waist.
No
High frequency of getting the flu and other respiratory
diseases and these symptoms tend to last longer than usual.
No
Tendency to tremble when under pressure.
No
Reduced sex drive.
Yes
Lightheaded when rising from a laying down position.
Unable to remember things.
No
Lack of energy in the mornings and also in the afternoon between 3 to 5 pm.
No
Feel better suddenly for a brief period after a meal.
No difference
Often feel tired betweeen 9 - 10 pm, but resist going to bed.
No
Need coffee or stimulants to get going in the morning.
No... but I drink coffee anyway
Crave for salty, fatty, and high protein food such as meat and cheese.
No
Pain in the upper back or neck with no apparent reasons .
No
Feels better when stress is relieved, such as on a vacation.
I have no stress job anyway..
Difficulties in getting up in the morning
No
Lightheaded
No

Could it be that I am in the early stages of Adrenal Fatigue?? Why aren't my adrenals producing enough DHEA??

See our wellness survey, at www.ultimatemedicalresearch.com do the urine test 24 hour ideally Rhein consulting, Oregon-full panel, and add in thyroid, or ADL lab (ultimate Medical Research panel) our office can get you in touch just call 866-319-0566-Beverly,
take a look at the product USC Ultimate Skin Charge, with DHEA and Pregnenlone, transdermal is always better than DHEA oral, many references, see Activate Energy-nitrogen, and New Lean N Fit, with Estroblock, Rigid X- we have it all in the Ultimate pack at the site ultimatemedicalresearch.com under science journal- "mens health article", also read under UMR in Media, and a must is to listen to the audio coaching, and Video brief clip. I dont mean to be commercial just go thru the steps and make your own decisions about supplements or equal.

 

[hardasnails1973]

ugh

 

[DrDelgado]

DHEA is DHEA, be it oral or transdermal. However transdermal is the best way to get it, by far. For a wide variety of reasons, it is better absorbed and breaks down into other metabolites such as T and 7 keto as well. If your worried about suppression, oral will do the same thing. SUPPRESSION MEANS ITS WORKING!!!!! This is what happens.

If your going with DHEA, stick with Dermacrine, just go lower dose. Its more effective and cheaper as well. Try 10 sprays a day.

Plus, it has components of sustain in it(resveratrol,benzoflavone)

See from my book # 1 Way to Fitness, p 99,
Men using 50 mg of DHEA orally converts into estrogen (estrones found in urine), so dont go above 25 mg of DHEA orally, whereas transdermal (Ultimate Skin Charge) and or sublingual (we use low dose of 5 mg or less from a Strength Energy formula) was safer and more likely to remain as DHEA.

reference page 263, Biotransformatoin of Oral DHEA in Elderly Men, Significant increases in Circulating Estrogens" JCEM 84 (1999): 2170 and Artl Wiebke, Oral DHEA for adrenal androgen replacement JCEM 83 (1998)1928, Labrei F Physiological Changes IN DHEA are not reflected by serum levels of active androgens and estrogens but in their metabolites JCEM 1982; 2403 and Morales AJ Effects fo replacement dose of DHEA in men and women of advanced age JCEM 78 (19994) 1360

 

[hardasnails1973]

See from my book # 1 Way to Fitness, p 99,
Men using 50 mg of DHEA orally converts into estrogen (estrones found in urine), so dont go above 25 mg of DHEA orally, whereas transdermal (Ultimate Skin Charge) and or sublingual (we use low dose of 5 mg or less from a Strength Energy formula) was safer and more likely to remain as DHEA.

reference page 263, Biotransformatoin of Oral DHEA in Elderly Men, Significant increases in Circulating Estrogens" JCEM 84 (1999): 2170 and Artl Wiebke, Oral DHEA for adrenal androgen replacement JCEM 83 (1998)1928, Labrei F Physiological Changes IN DHEA are not reflected by serum levels of active androgens and estrogens but in their metabolites JCEM 1982; 2403 and Morales AJ Effects fo replacement dose of DHEA in men and women of advanced age JCEM 78 (19994) 1360

So dhea is like Testosterone there comes a cross over point to where there is a benfit to risk ratio that needs to be estabilished. I was always under the impression that 50 mgs was that cross over point. If one uses estroblock with 50 mgs of DHEA then there would be less of a chance of it converting. I notice when i switch from 50 mgs to a 12.5 mgs BID subliqual spray my estrone actuall dropped and dhea was still at same level.

 

[BigAk]

So dhea is like Testosterone there comes a cross over point to where there is a benfit to risk ratio that needs to be estabilished. I was always under the impression that 50 mgs was that cross over point. If one uses estroblock with 50 mgs of DHEA then there would be less of a chance of it converting. I notice when i switch from 50 mgs to a 12.5 mgs BID subliqual spray my estrone actuall dropped and dhea was still at same level.

Does DHEA convert more to estrogen if taken orally versus transdermal application? or is it the same??

 

[DrDelgado]

Does DHEA convert more to estrogen if taken orally versus transdermal application? or is it the same??

DHEA taken orally swallowed because first pass liver converts in men to alot more estrogen, than transdermal. see references other thread above.

By including DIM and foods and vegetables rich in natural phytochemicals, the osteoporosis does not worsen, actually bone density improves from ratios as high as in many of my clients who start out with a pitiful level of ratios of less than 2 to 1 and after several months of the Delgado protocol they are at 5 to 1 (depending on the lab ADL) even 10 to 1 or 20 to 1 (Rhein consulting lab, or Meridian), Great Smokies (now new name?) for blood goes from under .8 to above 2 to 1, for 2OHE to 16aOHE. During this time provided over time there is proper improved androgen levels, GH and thyroid then bone density increases (that is especially true in those who understand the PH of one’s diet moving from highly acidic-(negative mineral imbalance, losing more calcium than one can take in like the Eskimos who have terrible osteoporosis losing their teeth even with eating bones of fish they eat -2200 mg of calcium a day, they have so much protein they lose bone density- meat, dairy, eggs to more toward a diet alkaline vegetables, fruit, brown rice, legumes etc. like Okinawa, and Bantus-giving birth to 9 children, mothers and kids retain calcium, and parts of china, high bone density, low level of hip fractures as compared to USA levels. The ratios will be fine on this approach.
In 1994 my testosterone was less than 344, my Estrone was high, IGF low, and I had lost interest in sex, gained weight, will working out, it is called aging, so by following first herbs to restore testosterone, then phytochemicals to clear estrone’s, and augmenting all hormones low based on Wellness survey www.ultimatemedicalresearch.com and lab tests for blood urine, saliva, over time my higher SHBG averages of 40 came down to under 27, my testosterone climbed over time from under 344, and a free Testosterone 1.4 pg/ml nearly nonexistent ok for a man over 70! to improve to ranges of 700 to 1,200 ng/ml and a Free Testosterone of between 35 and 220 pg/ml and Testosterone in urine 24 hours Rhein labs, Meriden and AAL and ADL averages 599 (scale 45 to 85) which have maintained over 10 years as I continue to progress, DHT 73 ng/dl, IGF from under 100 to average 350, restoring Free Thyroid to optimum top of range, DHEA from under 40 to around 350, during this time my estradiol 81 pg/ml of 1996 came down to safer 37. Insulin at under 5 even as low as under 2 has remained excellent on a very high complex carb diet-75% of calories, 15% or less of fat, 10 to 15% protein, Cholesterol at one time elevated along with high triglycerides leading to high blood pressure and a TIA stroke along with obesity, has now over 10 years been excellent, like free living populations who follow a Delgado type diet and protocol, Cholesterol is at 158, LDL under 95, HDL good 36 to 60, triglycerides 66, PSA stable, cortisol deficiency and Aldosterone deficiency corrected with augmentation of both using Bioidentical hormones to stabilize adrenals. No more fatigue, more muscle, stronger physically and mentally then anytime in my life. The Delgado protocol includes CVAC altitude training, blended drinks, weight training at least 30 to 45 minutes 4 times a week, time line therapy (tad James PhD) and ultimate Medical Research products. I have had 10 stem cell treatments from umbilical cord and one from my own bone marrow treatments.
My bone density went from poor for my age to top for a man age 52 that of a 24 year old. My hair line improved went from nearly zero to a sex drive that went thru the roof, (like when I was 18 years old, averaging intimacy with full force all out fun at least 5 to 12 times a week. My arteries have been tested completely clear, I sleep like a baby, run and keep up with my 4 grown children age 14 to 29, and train for world record attempts, competing nationally and internationally, while speaking tours now take me all over the world, enjoying sites and beautiful people, usually traveling with my children, and have a life in Newport Beach that I once dreamed of. Our supplement line is taking off, I’m preparing for media tours and book tours with the releases of my 3 coming books, I am not bragging just stating facts. For the hundreds of successful clients I have now coached our Health Wellness Studios companies have increased in business to match wildest dreams. My dreams I wrote out in 1996 have mostly all been met and I have added many new goals to my list to accomplish and live. Our goal is to help America and the world to become healthy and happy.

 

[BigAk]

DrDelgado,

Very impressive indeed. I have briefly gone over your product line on your web site and am impressed. However, I'm still trying to figure the best protocol to help me increase my testosterone levels. I've already learned that the DHEA cream is suppressive to one's HPTA which is what I'm trying to avoid. Resveratrol seem to help. Therefore, my upcoming protocol will be to try the Dermacrine Sustain then do blood work.

 

[plymouth city]

Does DHEA convert more to estrogen if taken orally versus transdermal application? or is it the same??

Converts more to E when taken orally, converts less to T when taken orally, and converts less to DHEA and other metabolites when taken orally.

Oral DHEA sucks :nono:

 

[BigAk]

Converts more to E when taken orally, converts less to T when taken orally, and converts less to DHEA and other metabolites when taken orally.

Oral DHEA sucks :nono:

Yes...I'm finding this out.. I had started taking 25mg/day orally 1.5 week ago.. After 5days in I started waking up in 4am feeling anxiety, and my morning wood had disappeared.. I quit taking it two days ago...

After discussing with Eric, we've decided to run the Sustain solo without any DHEA supplementation. I'll be doing blood work at the end to see what the results are. What do you think PC?

 

[plymouth city]

Yes...I'm finding this out.. I had started taking 25mg/day orally 1.5 week ago.. After 5days in I started waking up in 4am feeling anxiety, and my morning wood had disappeared.. I quit taking it two days ago...

After discussing with Eric, we've decided to run the Sustain solo without any DHEA supplementation. I'll be doing blood work at the end to see what the results are. What do you think PC?

Hmmm. I woulda started with regular Dermacrine to kickstart your whole HTPA into gear. went full force, 4 weeks, full dose, finish the bottle. Then go into sustain and stick with that, eventually using a smaller maintenance dose.

 

[BigAk]

Hmmm. I woulda started with regular Dermacrine to kickstart your whole HTPA into gear. went full force, 4 weeks, full dose, finish the bottle. Then go into sustain and stick with that, eventually using a smaller maintenance dose.

yeah.. I just decided against taking a chance suppressing my hpta.. Let's see what the sustain can do... then take it from there...

 

[DrDelgado]

DrDelgado,

Very impressive indeed. I have briefly gone over your product line on your web site and am impressed. However, I'm still trying to figure the best protocol to help me increase my testosterone levels. I've already learned that the DHEA cream is suppressive to one's HPTA which is what I'm trying to avoid. Resveratrol seem to help. Therefore, my upcoming protocol will be to try the Dermacrine Sustain then do blood work.

When we discuss testosterone, remember only your doctor can advise you legally and it is best to have an MD monitoring you, yet understand if I were you, the options exist, that allow low dose, IM, transdermal, pellets, while being sure to clear the estrone component (16aOHE to 2OHE), and this is best measured in urine. We do this in our coaching program, see bronze, silver or gold, and we if you don't have a doctor encourage to see or talk to one we know. Eye to eye exam, prostate, digital, PSA, complete lab and hormone assessment. I read a very detailed account of yours and it appears you are ready for the next level. Some careful coaching can get you to your goals quicker, with the least set backs.

 

[BigAk]

When we discuss testosterone, remember only your doctor can advise you legally and it is best to have an MD monitoring you, yet understand if I were you, the options exist, that allow low dose, IM, transdermal, pellets, while being sure to clear the estrone component (16aOHE to 2OHE), and this is best measured in urine. We do this in our coaching program, see bronze, silver or gold, and we if you don't have a doctor encourage to see or talk to one we know. Eye to eye exam, prostate, digital, PSA, complete lab and hormone assessment. I read a very detailed account of yours and it appears you are ready for the next level. Some careful coaching can get you to your goals quicker, with the least set backs.

DrDelagado... I am not interested in pursuing HRT.. I am interested in optimizing my own natural production from within my own HPTA. Dr. Crisler has helped my jump start my HPTA last year after I abandond anabolic steroids and HRT altogether... Dr. Crisler and I have done a great job getting my HPTA in order again, and it's obvious that my HPTA is not broken. It's just taking a long time to ramp up my testosterone levels to a higher level. If you think you can help me stay natural, optimize my testosterone levels without any HRT intervention, I'll be all ears.

 

[hardasnails1973]

DrDelagado... I am not interested in pursuing HRT.. I am interested in optimizing my own natural production from within my own HPTA. Dr. Crisler has helped my jump start my HPTA last year after I abandond anabolic steroids and HRT altogether... Dr. Crisler and I have done a great job getting my HPTA in order again, and it's obvious that my HPTA is not broken. It's just taking a long time to ramp up my testosterone levels to a higher level. If you think you can help me stay natural, optimize my testosterone levels without any HRT intervention, I'll be all ears.

if shbg is high
1. DIM - verify via urine test
2, iodoral - verify via urine test
3. look at where e2 is in relation ship to shbg
4, increase protein, fat,lower fiber soluable
5. stinging nettles - stabdarized 300 mgs 2-3 times a day
6. more fish oil

if its low
1. increase fiber
2. control insulin resistance
3. loose some weight

Increase testosterone
long jack - report blood test results in 6 weeks a guy that is completely natural have before and after results

 

[BigAk]

Thank you hardasnails for your attention... I don't believe I have a problem with shbg; or else Dr. Crisler would have caught it. Last time we measured it on 11/29/06 it was 28 (13-71)

 

[hardasnails1973]

Thank you hardasnails for your attention... I don't believe I have a problem with shbg; or else Dr. Crisler would have caught it. Last time we measured it on 11/29/06 it was 28 (13-71)

What was e2 at that time. Shbg does not change much but if high it can change through diet in matter of 2 weeks or even less. Dr John is excellent you just have to be patient with him. Im firm beleiveer in bioavailavity of hormones. Which makes me thing could shbg levels be affecting also free cortisol levels? I have been wondering if those bad estrogens are some how intefering with cortisol and thyroid receptors since my urine levels are off the charts?

 

[BigAk]

What was e2 at that time. Shbg does not change much but if high it can change through diet in matter of 2 weeks or even less. Dr John is excellent you just have to be patient with him. Im firm beleiveer in bioavailavity of hormones. Which makes me thing could shbg levels be affecting also free cortisol levels? I have been wondering if those bad estrogens are some how intefering with cortisol and thyroid receptors since my urine levels are off the charts?

Hmmmm... my E2 at the time was 7 (3 - 70)... A few months prior I had my Total Estrogen measured and it was too high 116 (40 - 115) ... But, Dr. John dismissed the Total Estrogen Assay as invalid!!! What do you think?

 

[hardasnails1973]

Hmmmm... my E2 at the time was 7 (3 - 70)... A few months prior I had my Total Estrogen measured and it was too high 116 (40 - 115) ... But, Dr. John dismissed the Total Estrogen Assay as invalid!!! What do you think?

did you have urine tests done to verify if estrogen metabolism was altered .

 

[BigAk]

did you have urine tests done to verify if estrogen metabolism was altered .

No I did not.. Dr. Crisler ordered a 24hr urine test via Rian (sp?) consultant. The trouble is that they would not file thru my insurance and the test is too expensive for me to pay out of pocket... around $225. Therefore, I selected to not do it. With blood work; my insurance pays it because Dr. Crisler orders it via my GP.

 

[hardasnails1973]

No I did not.. Dr. Crisler ordered a 24hr urine test via Rian (sp?) consultant. The trouble is that they would not file thru my insurance and the test is too expensive for me to pay out of pocket... around $225. Therefore, I selected to not do it. With blood work; my insurance pays it because Dr. Crisler orders it via my GP.

probably most important test there. IT is only way I identified my problem and when dr got results back as I told him :jaw:
and I nicely said "my prostate did not goto 80 grams for the hell of it" he was astounded that I was right all along. Had estrogen excess in one way biodefiency in another..

 

[BigAk]

probably most important test there. IT is only way I identified my problem and when dr got results back as I told him :jaw:
and I nicely said "my prostate did not goto 80 grams for the hell of it" he was astounded that I was right all along. Had estrogen excess in one way biodefiency in another..

WOW!!!! For real?? You're saying that even though my E2 is very low 7, my total Estrogen could be high as hell and the urine test is the best way to view it??

Is it possible to have very low E2 while total estrogen is sky high?

 

[BigAk]

When on outside exogenous T administration, anything can happen.

Usually for non HRT people the estrogens tend to be in balance.

I'm not on HRT though.... been natural for a year.

 

[hardasnails1973]

When on outside exogenous T administration, anything can happen.

Usually for non HRT people the estrogens tend to be in balance.

This was before TRT as well LOL
I was excreting a compound called xylene which later I found out was a xenoestrogen and so the fun began with methyation problems, zinc and magensium defiency and fatty liver and insulin resistance.

 

[hardasnails1973]

True, but permanent changes to estrogens can take place that won't correct themselves.

Ever on adrimidex?

TRue enviromental influences are around you ever day and as a saftey measure i highly suggest fish oils, DIM, calcium d glucurate, TMG for a nice start because its only going to get worse in time. I think alternative medicine are on to something for cancer prevention, but meidcal will not back it up because drugs company can not market it. :toofunny:

 

[BigAk]

True, but permanent changes to estrogens can take place that won't correct themselves.

Ever on adrimidex?

Yes.. I was taking arimidex .25 every other day when I was on HRT.. What are you suggesting??

 

[BigAk]

TRue enviromental influences are around you ever day and as a saftey measure i highly suggest fish oils, DIM, calcium d glucurate, TMG for a nice start because its only going to get worse in time. I think alternative medicine are on to something for cancer prevention, but meidcal will not back it up because drugs company can not market it. :toofunny:

I'm already taking Cod Liver Oil and ZMA .. I should prob. start taking the rest you're listing.

 

[hardasnails1973]

I'm already taking Cod Liver Oil and ZMA .. I should prob. start taking the rest you're listing.

If you have BC bs dr j can run an organic acid test on you from great plains labortory to check to see where cellular metabolism. I'm probably one of the best in the country reading those damn things as well as spotting problems with methyation on urine tests. Drs have no clue what CBS and methionne synthase even means LOL Want to learn more about conditions you have ressarch autism its all there !!

 

[BigAk]

If you have BC bs dr j can run an organic acid test on you from great plains labortory to check to see where cellular metabolism. I'm probably one of the best in the country reading those damn things as well as spotting problems with methyation on urine tests. Drs have no clue what CBS and methionne synthase even means LOL Want to learn more about conditions you have ressarch autism its all there !!

hardasnails.... You're going over my head now.. LOL.. I don't even know what BC bs is ... and how is the organic acid test going to help me?? What does cellular metabolism have to do with my situation??? Forgive my ignorance.. I'm just at loss as to what to do sometimes... I get overwhellmed with everything, I feel it's the easiest thing to hop back on HRT and forget about it... Then I have something deep inside telling me; no.... keep on trying to heal yourself...
LOL

 

[hardasnails1973]

hardasnails.... You're going over my head now.. LOL.. I don't even know what BC bs is ... and how is the organic acid test going to help me?? What does cellular metabolism have to do with my situation??? Forgive my ignorance.. I'm just at loss as to what to do sometimes... I get overwhellmed with everything, I feel it's the easiest thing to hop back on HRT and forget about it... Then I have something deep inside telling me; no.... keep on trying to heal yourself...
LOL

If you have cellular blockages in your the citric acid cycle it will slow down your cellular metaoblism (control all enzymatic reactions in the body) if you have low thyroid your krebs cycle will also be slow. mitochonrion are your bodys celular power houses if they are dispruted whole body system are affected from cellular level on up to tissue

Ask Dr J he will know what I mean and will probably agree. Personal choice insurance covers it aka BC/BS. My whole concept is look for the metabolic blocks in liver detoxifcation pathways, gut and then everything else will fall in line..

Healing begins with feeding the body and main cause is leaky gut syndrome which is induced by over active sympathtic system (STRESS !!!) where ever it may come from ..

i have been down your pathway, but look at a curse as a blessing in disquise as I did.

 

[BigAk]

If you have cellular blockages in your the citric acid cycle it will slow down your cellular metaoblism (control all enzymatic reactions in the body) if you have low thyroid your krebs cycle will also be slow. mitochonrion are your bodys celular power houses if they are dispruted whole body system are affected from cellular level on up to tissue

Ask Dr J he will know what I mean and will probably agree. Personal choice insurance covers it aka BC/BS. My whole concept is look for the metabolic blocks in liver detoxifcation pathways, gut and then everything else will fall in line..

Healing begins with feeding the body and main cause is leaky gut syndrome which is induced by over active sympathtic system (STRESS !!!) where ever it may come from ..

i have been down your pathway, but look at a curse as a blessing in disquise as I did.

I'll ask Dr. John on my next appointment with him. What you're talking about is very new to me.. I will also be asking him about possible Adrenal Fatigue.. since my DHEA is chronically low..

 

[hardasnails1973]

I'll ask Dr. John on my next appointment with him. What you're talking about is very new to me.. I will also be asking him about possible Adrenal Fatigue.. since my DHEA is chronically low..

Sound to me like underactive pituitary due to some kind of singnal that is jamming things up. Some kind of toxins 2nd hand smoke, mercuury, arsenic, lead, ect. A hair analyisus might reveal some hidden factors not seen in typical blood reports. well if you are low on estrogen you have magnesium and copper defiency as well as calcium. So magnesium is needed to raise dhea leavels as well as copper. estrogen retains calcium and magnesium and increases ceruoplasm which drs never check for and its a very point antioxident.for iron conversion. Hemmochromatosis could be a factor too.. With low e2 your thyroid is being stress conversion from t4 to t3 will be accelerating lowering your t4 levels to bottom end and this will stress crap out of adrenals and insulin will go all over the freaken place (insulin resistance )

Love to see a spectracell WBC minreal test and also hair analyisis before even doing organic acid tests..

 

[BigAk]

here are some more results taken last year on 11/29/2006

T4 free direct --- 1.04 (0.61 - 1.76)
TSH ----- 3.193 (0.350 - 5.500)
Triiodothyronine, free, serum --- 3.1 (2.3 - 4.2)

IGF-1 --- 188 (109 - 284)

I don't supplement with magnesium nor copper.. but I think my copper could be low because I'm taking ZMA for a long time now.

 

[hardasnails1973]

here are some more results taken last year on 11/29/2006

T4 free direct --- 1.04 (0.61 - 1.76)
TSH ----- 3.193 (0.350 - 5.500)
Triiodothyronine, free, serum --- 3.1 (2.3 - 4.2)

IGF-1 --- 188 (109 - 284)

I don't supplement with magnesium nor copper.. but I think my copper could be low because I'm taking ZMA for a long time now.

You are a good converted based on this so armour would not be apporopiate based on this lab test, but you need fresh labs to see how things changed. Dhea levels low will lower igf-1 levels as well as low T levels . 2 mgs is all that needs to be supplemented to prevent an copper diefiency. Also with low estrogen i bet your ceruoplams and ferrtin levels are in the crapper. low testosterone can cause zinc defieincy look into spectracell testing for confirmation of this or even hair anaylsis by ARL has confirmed this as well, other hair labs wash there samples which is not how hair test were orginally designed. estrogen controls inuslin production as well as cholesrtol synthesis.

 

[BigAk]

You are a good converted based on this so armour would not be apporopiate based on this lab test, but you need fresh labs to see how things changed. Dhea levels low will lower igf-1 levels as well as low T levels . 2 mgs is all that needs to be supplemented to prevent an copper diefiency. Also with low estrogen i bet your ceruoplams and ferrtin levels are in the crapper. low testosterone can cause zinc defieincy look into spectracell testing for confirmation of this or even hair anaylsis by ARL has confirmed this as well, other hair labs wash there samples which is not how hair test were orginally designed. estrogen controls inuslin production as well as cholesrtol synthesis.

Yup.... I have an appt. with Dr. John this Thursday. I'll discuss all this with him.. I predict he'll be ordering brand new labs also..

 

[hardasnails1973]

Yup.... I have an appt. with Dr. John this Thursday. I'll discuss all this with him.. I predict he'll be ordering brand new labs also..

Look at chain of events of low e2
low e2 causes low ceruoplasm - copper defieincy- iron defiency (due to imparied intesintal absorption)- imparied magnesium, calcium, iodine uptake, choline uptake.

low choline uptake lowers Phosphodytl choline production and resulting in deteration of cell membrane and releassing of Arachodonic acid resulting in low inuslin out put.

Things you might want to JUST mention to dr john that he may think about incorportating into his practice if people have proper insurance. Its the way you say it becauase I am sure he has already tossed these ideas around. These will only make his practice a more stand alone..

1. RBC fatty acid - no fats no hormones no brainer
2. iodine urine test - 100 bucks is well worth it to stop guessing.
3. spectacell testing minerals/ vitamins - this was a huge impact on my recover. i was taking supplements that were not being absorbed by my body because of various reasons

PErsonal choice and blue cross people cost 55 bucks for a 1000 dollar test other wise its 300 cash in advance.

 

[BigAk]

Look at chain of events of low e2
low e2 causes low ceruoplasm - copper defieincy- iron defiency (due to imparied intesintal absorption)- imparied magnesium, calcium, iodine uptake, choline uptake.

low choline uptake lowers Phosphodytl choline production and resulting in deteration of cell membrane and releassing of Arachodonic acid resulting in low inuslin out put.

Things you might want to JUST mention to dr john that he may think about incorportating into his practice if people have proper insurance. Its the way you say it becauase I am sure he has already tossed these ideas around. These will only make his practice a more stand alone..

1. RBC fatty acid - no fats no hormones no brainer
2. iodine urine test - 100 bucks is well worth it to stop guessing.
3. spectacell testing minerals/ vitamins - this was a huge impact on my recover. i was taking supplements that were not being absorbed by my body because of various reasons

PErsonal choice and blue cross people cost 55 bucks for a 1000 dollar test other wise its 300 cash in advance.

The list of what to tell Dr. John keeps on growing. It's all above my head too.. I wish you could get on the call with us on Thursday.. I'll try my best..

But.. What is RBC stand for?? and did you mean to run a test for RBC fatty acid??

 

[hardasnails1973]

The list of what to tell Dr. John keeps on growing. It's all above my head too.. I wish you could get on the call with us on Thursday.. I'll try my best..

But.. What is RBC stand for?? and did you mean to run a test for RBC fatty acid??

RBC examins fatty acid metabolism in the cell shows if you are absorbing your fat due to bile acids problems usually associated with adrenals stresses. The man is smart about things I ever want to imply I am a know it all but just givve him some more tools that may help to see hidden factors over looked by other drs,