Help my skinny arms!

[LAH813]

Sup bros so a little background

Been on this site awhile, mostly only post on another section but I was curious to see if anyone may be able to give some advice or share a similar story.
Been lifting for multiple years, I'm 27 years old and active duty military where my job pulls me in many directions quite often.

So over my course of training I have come to the realization I have amazing Trap genetics, I never isolate traps or do much trap work but am constantly reminded and complimented on how my traps look. I have great shoulder genetics, round and wide. And my chest looks like a GI Joe figure. Only issue is.. my freaking arms are narrow as F!CK!! I've tried specific arm days, I've tried not specific arm days, I've tried going heavy, going light, high reps, low reps, I've even tried (yes I know) feeder workouts. Currently my arms are 16.5 inches. Which some may say oh that's not bad, but when I look in the mirror I see giant ass traps and shoulders and little twiggy arms.

Haha I may have gone off the rails a little.
So I guess I'll leave it to the forum here and see if maybe any of y'all have any advice or guidance.

God bless and Semper Fi

 

[booneman77]

what does your normal workout split look like? You may need to do more squat/dead/big muscle type work to spike gh and then add supplemental arm work to get them moving

 

[LAH813]

what does your normal workout split look like? You may need to do more squat/dead/big muscle type work to spike gh and then add supplemental arm work to get them moving

Currently doing a push/ pull type split with added arm work. Are you thinking like a 5,3,1 type of workout , or?

 

[booneman77]

Currently doing a push/ pull type split with added arm work. Are you thinking like a 5,3,1 type of workout , or?

whats the exercise breakdown. im just thinking that if you don't have (or havent in the past) enough "big move" work, that will hamper whole body growth... the old "want bigger arms? go squat" theory

 

[LAH813]

whats the exercise breakdown. im just thinking that if you don't have (or havent in the past) enough "big move" work, that will hamper whole body growth... the old "want bigger arms? go squat" theory

Usually Day 1 is a combo of like a big push like overhead press, incline, decline, or flat. Then a smaller push like DB press or DB bench. Then some cable work. I'll usually work triceps with this day like some press down, skull crushers, and some overhead cable extensions, something like that.
Day 2 is usually either bent over barbell rows, or weighted pull-ups, then I do lay pull downs and DB rows, followed by something like shrugs and some face pulls, ill usually throw in biceps on this day and do barbell curls and cable rope curls.

Then leg days are usually at least 5 or 6 sets of squats and then lunges and some accessory work.
I usually only deadlift once a week. And I'll alternate between sumo and regular depending on how I feel that day.

Maybe it's not enough volume?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Usually Day 1 is a combo of like a big push like overhead press, incline, decline, or flat. Then a smaller push like DB press or DB bench. Then some cable work. I'll usually work triceps with this day like some press down, skull crushers, and some overhead cable extensions, something like that.
Day 2 is usually either bent over barbell rows, or weighted pull-ups, then I do lay pull downs and DB rows, followed by something like shrugs and some face pulls, ill usually throw in biceps on this day and do barbell curls and cable rope curls.

Then leg days are usually at least 5 or 6 sets of squats and then lunges and some accessory work.
I usually only deadlift once a week. And I'll alternate between sumo and regular depending on how I feel that day.

Maybe it's not enough volume?

How many times per week are you hitting biceps and triceps? Sorry if I missed it. Of course big, heavy compound movements are great for overall mass/size, but I do feel once you've established a good base, doing more direct arm work will help your arms grow, which seems pretty simple and logical IMO. If you view arms only as an afterthought, it makes sense that they'd be a weak point. Yeah, you don't typically see a very strong guy with tiny arms, but strong guys don't always have "bodybuilder" looking arms, and plenty of guys with big, well developed arms aren't crazy strong on major compound movements. Of course, you always want to do the compound movements, but if you're already benching, squatting, and deadlifting regularly and want to get bigger arms, I don't think the best approach is deadlift and squat more, especially if you aren't doing much direct arm work IMO.

Edit: Also, I've found that when doing direct arm work, the mind-muscle connection is key, and it's better to use lighter weight and really focus on flexing the target muscles and going though a full ROM and keeping time under tension in mind. Too many people swing heavy dumbbells doing full body hammer curls all day and wonder why their biceps aren't that great (not suggesting that's what you do at all, just something I've observed), or people using a ton of weight on pushdowns and using chest and never really flexing at the bottom of the rep or using full ROM.

 

[LAH813]

How many times per week are you hitting biceps and triceps? Sorry if I missed it. Of course big, heavy compound movements are great for overall mass/size, but I do feel once you've established a good base, doing more direct arm work will help your arms grow, which seems pretty simple and logical IMO. If you view arms only as an afterthought, it makes sense that they'd be a weak point. Yeah, you don't typically see a very strong guy with tiny arms, but strong guys don't always have "bodybuilder" looking arms, and plenty of guys with big, well developed arms aren't crazy strong on major compound movements. Of course, you always want to do the compound movements, but if you're already benching, squatting, and deadlifting regularly and want to get bigger arms, I don't think the best approach is deadlift and squat more, especially if you aren't doing much direct arm work IMO.

Edit: Also, I've found that when doing direct arm work, the mind-muscle connection is key, and it's better to use lighter weight and really focus on flexing the target muscles and going though a full ROM and keeping time under tension in mind. Too many people swing heavy dumbbells doing full body hammer curls all day and wonder why their biceps aren't that great (not suggesting that's what you do at all, just something I've observed), or people using a ton of weight on pushdowns and using chest and never really flexing at the bottom of the rep or using full ROM.

Thanks for the comment. Really good stuff here. I'd say I train arms 4 times a week. On each push and each pull day.
Would you suggest maybe I switch to more of a bro split and give arms their own day?

 

[booneman77]

Thanks for the comment. Really good stuff here. I'd say I train arms 4 times a week. On each push and each pull day.
Would you suggest maybe I switch to more of a bro split and give arms their own day?

I really don't see any merit to that for two reasons:
1) any day you have other pushing and pulling you'll use those muscles to some extents anyways so your "dedicated" arm day won't actually be the only work anyhow
2) if you really want to grow something working it more times directly is more likely to help so only hitting it fully once a week with a bro split probably isn't optimal.

My recommendation would be to hit them at least twice, maybe 3 times a week, but volume that matches the number of times.

If twice, something like 4-6 heavy sets and 6-8 higher rep sets for each muscle would prob be enough.

If 3x, split the same sets (stay on the higher end) over 3 workouts

always do these first in the workout to get optimal effort into them and then finish each workout with a metabolic heavy type lift (not necessarily arm related) to help spike gh post workout. Have a nice big post workout meal with plenty of carbs and that all should help.

That last part is one thing we haven't asked yet but what's you nutrition look like, especially around your workouts?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I really don't see any merit to that for two reasons:
1) any day you have other pushing and pulling you'll use those muscles to some extents anyways so your "dedicated" arm day won't actually be the only work anyhow
2) if you really want to grow something working it more times directly is more likely to help so only hitting it fully once a week with a bro split probably isn't optimal.

My recommendation would be to hit them at least twice, maybe 3 times a week, but volume that matches the number of times.

If twice, something like 4-6 heavy sets and 6-8 higher rep sets for each muscle would prob be enough.

If 3x, split the same sets (stay on the higher end) over 3 workouts

always do these first in the workout to get optimal effort into them and then finish each workout with a metabolic heavy type lift (not necessarily arm related) to help spike gh post workout. Have a nice big post workout meal with plenty of carbs and that all should help.

That last part is one thing we haven't asked yet but what's you nutrition look like, especially around your workouts?

When you say 10-14 sets for each muscle, are you talking per session or per week? If it's per week, I'd consider trying for at least 15-16 sets per week, if not more depending on your training style. That's only 8 sets 2x per week or 5 sets 3x per week, which I don't think is too much. I have found that I can do more weight on arm exercises, things like heavy barbell curls and weighted dips, on days where I don't do chest or back before arms, so there can be some merit to doing arms on a separate day as a change of pace if you feel like your arms are at a plateau. As for finishing a workout with a compound lift for spiking GH, is there any research that this actually has any tangible benefits, or is it just a theory?

 

[EMPIREMIND]

Here's some things I've come to learn. I have similararities to what you describe in my physique as well. Or I used to at least. The biggest thing for me was realizing that I simply needed to build more muscle overall. So for me even though I thought my arms should be bigger, in reality everything should be bigger.

I started to focus more on heavy compounds in the hypertrophy range. At minimal 6 reps for my heavy sets. Weighted dips, weighted bench dips, weighted chins, rack chins, weighted pull ups, weighted push-ups, close grip bench, heavy french curls all seemed to hit my arms harder than anything else. In addition I would then do some higher rep range bi and tri supersets which would create the greatest pump in my arms and in turn it stretches the fascia.

By doing both regularly, at least hitting arms once or twice heavy and once or twice for pump a week I saw changes.

More than likely you will need to hit them more often and prioritze then over the body parts that grow easier.

If you have a high carb day refeed or cheat day plan it around your arm day.

 

[booneman77]

When you say 10-14 sets for each muscle, are you talking per session or per week? If it's per week, I'd consider trying for at least 15-16 sets per week, if not more depending on your training style. That's only 8 sets 2x per week or 5 sets 3x per week, which I don't think is too much. I have found that I can do more weight on arm exercises, things like heavy barbell curls and weighted dips, on days where I don't do chest or back before arms, so there can be some merit to doing arms on a separate day as a change of pace if you feel like your arms are at a plateau. As for finishing a workout with a compound lift for spiking GH, is there any research that this actually has any tangible benefits, or is it just a theory?

that would be per week. The reason I say lower amounts is simply that arms will be worked a good deal in pressing and pulling moves as well, making the extra sets just tire you out for the chest/back work. Those being the "big movers" you would want to perform pretty well there as well.

The GH release is a science-backed factor, although the only article i found quickly (I know there are a few others, just dont have time to dig) is here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2796409

 

[muscleupcrohn]

that would be per week. The reason I say lower amounts is simply that arms will be worked a good deal in pressing and pulling moves as well, making the extra sets just tire you out for the chest/back work. Those being the "big movers" you would want to perform pretty well there as well.

The GH release is a science-backed factor, although the only article i found quickly (I know there are a few others, just dont have time to dig) is here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2796409

I know that the GH release from heavy compound movements is a real thing, I'm asking if there's any evidence that finishing a workout with such a movement will yield and additional benefits beyond doing these same movements at the beginning and/or middle of your workout, which most people are doing anyway.

 

[booneman77]

I know that the GH release from heavy compound movements is a real thing, I'm asking if there's any evidence that finishing a workout with such a movement will yield and additional benefits beyond doing these same movements at the beginning and/or middle of your workout, which most people are doing anyway.

I doubt most people are doing these in a "metabolic" type way (ie. high velocity, low rest, eplosive, to complete failure) at the beginning of a workout... if they are, theyre gonna ruin the rest of it ha.

Yes, their effect is longer lasting than the workout itself, but spiking them and then continuing to do damage vs spike-recover should lead to better usage and therefore improved recovery. This of course is more my own thought than something I have articles to back, but seems to make sense.

 

[LAH813]

Here's some things I've come to learn. I have similararities to what you describe in my physique as well. Or I used to at least. The biggest thing for me was realizing that I simply needed to build more muscle overall. So for me even though I thought my arms should be bigger, in reality everything should be bigger.

I started to focus more on heavy compounds in the hypertrophy range. At minimal 6 reps for my heavy sets. Weighted dips, weighted bench dips, weighted chins, rack chins, weighted pull ups, weighted push-ups, close grip bench, heavy french curls all seemed to hit my arms harder than anything else. In addition I would then do some higher rep range bi and tri supersets which would create the greatest pump in my arms and in turn it stretches the fascia.

By doing both regularly, at least hitting arms once or twice heavy and once or twice for pump a week I saw changes.

More than likely you will need to hit them more often and prioritze then over the body parts that grow easier.

If you have a high carb day refeed or cheat day plan it around your arm day.

This seems to be a running theme. I appreciate it

 

[StatePlan1425]

What do you guys think of the whole BFR (Blood Flow Restriction) protocols out there? They seem limb specific. More J. Wilson BS?

 

[EMPIREMIND]

What do you guys think of the whole BFR (Blood Flow Restriction) protocols out there? They seem limb specific. More J. Wilson BS?

Lol just finished doing it for my arms. All I can say is the pump is rediculous, I like to flex between sets as well . I am also focusing all my carbs peri workout and consuming karbolyn and EAAs during my workouts which should in theory shuttle more nutrients into the muscle with that type of training. Idk how significant of a change I've seen due to just BFR, but overall I put on at least an inch on my arms this year and used it as part of my routine

 

[booneman77]

Bfr has actually science behind it being effective. It's kinda fun too in a masochistic way ha.

I think the biggest factor is like EM said and that's good periworkout nutrition with it. Otherwise you're just getting a better pump but without the idea nutrients as well (or at least less quantity of them).

 

[StatePlan1425]

Bfr has actually science behind it being effective. It's kinda fun too in a masochistic way ha.

I think the biggest factor is like EM said and that's good periworkout nutrition with it. Otherwise you're just getting a better pump but without the idea nutrients as well (or at least less quantity of them).

Thanks guys. Most of the athletes I'm around don't train specifically for hypertrophy so I don't have empirical knowledge but this has been something that has peaked my curiosity. Question, how do you ensure your not inadvertently restricting arterial flow?

 

[EMPIREMIND]

Thanks guys. Most of the athletes I'm around don't train specifically for hypertrophy so I don't have empirical knowledge but this has been something that has peaked my curiosity. Question, how do you ensure your not inadvertently restricting arterial flow?

This I think is the biggest risk. I would say not to start too tight. As you get more familiar feel it out.

 

[LAH813]

BFR is the same as occlusion training in guessing? Basically restricting the blood flow to make it work harder? Or am I off

 

[booneman77]

BFR is the same as occlusion training in guessing? Basically restricting the blood flow to make it work harder? Or am I off

same thing

 

[LAH813]

same thing

Gotcha. Know about it. Haven't tried it.

 

[LDubs]

What do you guys use to restrict the blood flow? Surgical bands?

 

[jameschoi]

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2015/01/no-long-term-muscle-or-strength-gain.html

 

[booneman77]

What do you guys use to restrict the blood flow? Surgical bands?

they make bfr bands. some are better than others, and many just use knee wraps or elbow wraps too

 

[EMPIREMIND]

I actually used two of those rubber livestrong wrist bands recently on arms. Was a little tight, but definitely worked and didn't feel uneven pressure wise. Wrist straps work, but can be a pain to get on correctly and stay on. I haven't tried any occlusion band products.

 

[Dustin07]

To tack on to a discussion that already has plenty of responses, I'll just provide my 2 cents. I'm one of those guys who naturally always had bigger calves than arms, so I can relate to your struggle. My solution mostly, has been:

Targeted tricep work on my heavy push day (I will do WEIGHTED dips, tri push downs, or pull downs after my 5 rep bench or overhead press day).
the accessory tricep work, I aim to be inthe 8-12 rep region vs with strength work (bench/press) I aim for the 5 rep.
the tricep is what, 2/3's of your upper arm?

Targeted bicep work on my heavy pull days (DB curls, hammer curls, bicep curls, preacher curls, ez bar curls, weighted chin ups) after my deadlifts, cleans, or power cleans.
I run bicep curls basically to fatigue, and do drop sets for the pump.

If life allows for a 'bro day', I'll carb load the night and morning before, head in and try to knock out 3 bicep movements and 3 tricep movements, in the 10-15 rep region, looking for fatigue, failure, and the PUMP. The only time I truly look for the pump is arms or isolated back work for fun.

if I break down the arms enough to really get that pencil snapping, can't lift my shirt over my head pump, I don't allow myself to go even 30 minutes without getting that post workout nutrition in. In fact, I probably stress post workout nutrition more on smaller muscle group development than large.


Personally, my traps, lats, and arms all grew the most from doing extremely high rep olympic lifting (ala crossfit). cleans, rope climbs, and pullups have been huge for me. but in that high rep/hypertrophic range.

 

[LAH813]

To tack on to a discussion that already has plenty of responses, I'll just provide my 2 cents. I'm one of those guys who naturally always had bigger calves than arms, so I can relate to your struggle. My solution mostly, has been:

Targeted tricep work on my heavy push day (I will do WEIGHTED dips, tri push downs, or pull downs after my 5 rep bench or overhead press day).
the accessory tricep work, I aim to be inthe 8-12 rep region vs with strength work (bench/press) I aim for the 5 rep.
the tricep is what, 2/3's of your upper arm?

Targeted bicep work on my heavy pull days (DB curls, hammer curls, bicep curls, preacher curls, ez bar curls, weighted chin ups) after my deadlifts, cleans, or power cleans.
I run bicep curls basically to fatigue, and do drop sets for the pump.

If life allows for a 'bro day', I'll carb load the night and morning before, head in and try to knock out 3 bicep movements and 3 tricep movements, in the 10-15 rep region, looking for fatigue, failure, and the PUMP. The only time I truly look for the pump is arms or isolated back work for fun.

if I break down the arms enough to really get that pencil snapping, can't lift my shirt over my head pump, I don't allow myself to go even 30 minutes without getting that post workout nutrition in. In fact, I probably stress post workout nutrition more on smaller muscle group development than large.


Personally, my traps, lats, and arms all grew the most from doing extremely high rep olympic lifting (ala crossfit). cleans, rope climbs, and pullups have been huge for me. but in that high rep/hypertrophic range.

Good **** here. Thanks

 

[AntM1564]

Pretty interesting article I came across today. The one issue I have with it is that it does not disclose if the participants were right or left handed. That could play a factor.

The researchers recruited 9 males between the ages of 20 and 34 and had them follow a bodybuilding style program for 11 weeks. Two days a week, they trained only their left biceps with curls, hammer curls, and reverse curls.

On two additional days per week, they trained their legs with leg presses, leg extensions, and leg curls, followed by a training session for the right biceps, using the same exercises previously performed for the left biceps.

After 11 weeks, the right biceps, which had been trained during the same session as legs, was significantly bigger and stronger than the left biceps. The researchers found higher levels of GH and testosterone during leg plus arm-training sessions and concluded that they were responsible for the additional growth and strength in the right arm.

You can benefit from this research by adopting an innovative training split that takes advantage of this relationship between legs and arms.

https://www.t-nation.com/workouts/testosterone-advantage-training

 

[Dustin07]

Replace leg press with squats and deadlifts, then follow up with intense arm workout to fatigue and a smart nutritional program and you'll find the gains you seek.

 

[LAH813]

Replace leg press with squats and deadlifts, then follow up with intense arm workout to fatigue and a smart nutritional program and you'll find the gains you seek.

So I've taken all the advice here and started working my arms on my squat/deads days. We will see how it goes.

 

[AntM1564]

Replace leg press with squats and deadlifts, then follow up with intense arm workout to fatigue and a smart nutritional program and you'll find the gains you seek.

Agree. I think the study used leg press versus squats because it is more user friendly. If leg press could promote extra arm growth though, squats and deads should be even better, in theory.

 

[booneman77]

Agree. I think the study used leg press versus squats because it is more user friendly. If leg press could promote extra arm growth though, squats and deads should be even better, in theory.

much harder to curl WHILE you squat though haha (though I think I saw a vid of Bradley Martin doing this... hella impressive to balance the bar on his back without hands). Curls during leg press FTW

 

[Dustin07]

#curlingInTheSquatRack

 

[booneman77]

#curlingInTheSquatRack

new gym rule: you can curl in the squat rack IF, and only if, you are also simultaneously squatting

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Semper Fi

I hear eating the red crayons work best for bulking. Lol. Hooah!

 

[LAH813]

I hear eating the red crayons work best for bulking. Lol. Hooah!

The blue ones taste like blueberry!

 

[R1balla]

Here are my 3 favorite workouts for biceps and triceps

Biceps:
Heavy barbell curl
EX bar preacher curl
Incline DB curls

Triceps
Weighted dips
Reverse grip bench
Rope extensions