brian101883
New member
Does anyone think that the havoc/cycle support/post cycle support for $100 bucks cover everything needed to run first cycle of havoc.
Havoc question
- Thread starter brian101883
- Start date
ibanezman08
Active member
sure
but i'd get some clomid
but i'd get some clomid
nickrut
Active member
PCS is not enough of a PCT for havoc and generally you need 2 bottles of cycle support (or just 1 + some additional goodies) to run a proper havoc cycle.
For PCT you would AT least need an AI (6oxo is my favorite for this purpose) + something like PCS (PCT Assist is great, so is act xtreme).
Some recommend SERMS + test booster. Depends how cautious you want to be. Search around a bit more.
For PCT you would AT least need an AI (6oxo is my favorite for this purpose) + something like PCS (PCT Assist is great, so is act xtreme).
Some recommend SERMS + test booster. Depends how cautious you want to be. Search around a bit more.
stl123
Active member
IMO 6oxo would be a bad choice for PCT. 6 oxo is going to totally block estrogen and could possibly cause delayed gyno. PCS would be a far better option IMO.
CopyCat
Well-known member
Truthfully, I think you may want to do some further research. Here are 2 great threads to start with.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/recomp-performance-nutrition/82835-havoc-write-up.html
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.html
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/recomp-performance-nutrition/82835-havoc-write-up.html
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.html
mooch2321
Well-known member
umm...this statement is not true...six oxo is an ia that will reduce aromatization by about 25% percent...it is not a suicide inhibitor by any means...mabye you are confused and are thinking about six-oxo extreme which also has resveratrol in it...this acts as a serm and stops estrogen from binding at the receptor site....either one of these product would be an integral part of an otc pct...
stl123
Active member
If what you said was true, then no one would need a SERM for anything. They could use 6oxo.
This is right from ergopharms website. It only took my 2 minutes to find it.
"6-OXO™ is what is known as a suicide inhibitor of aromatase. This means that 6-OXO™ binds to the aromatase enzyme in a permanent and irreversible manner, rendering it inactive. The result of this is an eventual diminishment of aromatase enzyme in the body and a concomitant reduction in estrogen levels. A corresponding increase in testosterone production is usually experienced as well."
so, UMMM, yeah that is true.. PCS would be better.. Did you even read the havoc and epistane faq's
mooch2321
Well-known member
Invalid Link Removed
here is a link to the ergopharm website
Invalid Link Removed
and here is a link to the six oxo write -up...tell me where on the website or in their write-up that you found this statement....it is nowhere on there...did you just type it up yourself?
and as far as resveritrol replacing a serm it is 20-30 percent less effective than nolvadex....so no it is still better to use a real serm...
when you stop using a serm like nolva you will get estro rebound without the use of an ai in conjunction....all nolva does is stop estro from binding at the receptor site...test is still aromatizing so you get this big buildup of estro that cant bind to anything....when you stop using the serm all this estrogen that has been built up will give you gyno and bloat you up...this is called estro rebound....
mooch2321
Well-known member
oh and by the way...it sound like you need to do a little more research...the pcs product you are recomending uses resveritrol as the main ingredient...
stl123
Active member
mooch2321
Well-known member
Exactly. You should read about it!!!!
wtf...just stop dude...just stop...you dont have a clue do you....
stl123
Active member
Do you even know anything about the said the main ingredient in PCs? Do a search and read about it. You obviously don't know about it. Why do you think so many new pct products are using this as a main ingredient and reps for the company are suggesting this product. I tell you what dude. I'll put up a poll tomorrow and ask people what they think is better. You go ahead and use 6oxo for pct. What's your address? I'll send you a bra in advance.
mooch2321
Well-known member
Do you even know anything about the said the main ingredient in PCs? Do a search and read about it. You obviously don't know about it. Why do you think so many new pct products are using this as a main ingredient and reps for the company are suggesting this product. I tell you what dude. I'll put up a poll tomorrow and ask people what they think is better. You go ahead and use 6oxo for pct. What's your address? I'll send you a bra in advance.
dude seriously....the "said main ingredient" is resveritrol....i dont need to read about it i have been telling you about it the whole thread...reread the thread...and i still think your confused about the difference between 6-oxo and the extreme version...the extreme actually has resveritrol in it as well...you dont have very good reading comprhension do you? no where in this thread did i suggest using 6-oxo by itself for pct....bro i think you are seriously confused and probably need to do a lot more research before you start running cycles or you going to be needing to buy yourself those bra's...
RenegadeRows
Well-known member
A SERM will cause an estrogen rebound, which is why we incorporate a two-pronged approach using an AI and a SERM tapered inversely.
Resveratrol is an excellent addition to any PCT, because it acts as both an anti-E at the receptor and a mild AI. I would choose to use this over 6-oxo in PCT, as the anecdotal feedback has been pretty strong for it.
As far as 6-oxo being a suicide inhibitor, it is labeled as such. It states clearly on their write up "6-OXO is what is known as a suicide inhibitor of aromatase." Pulled right from nutraplanet. But we know that a low dose of 6-oxo would be good in PCT, tapered correctly. It is far less harsh on estrogen then our friend ATD, but still gets the job done.
If I were to run a PCT, I would do a SERM tapered down, low dose AI tapered UP, and a product like PCS run straight through, preloaded one week prior to starting PCT.
Hope this helps...
RR
Resveratrol is an excellent addition to any PCT, because it acts as both an anti-E at the receptor and a mild AI. I would choose to use this over 6-oxo in PCT, as the anecdotal feedback has been pretty strong for it.
As far as 6-oxo being a suicide inhibitor, it is labeled as such. It states clearly on their write up "6-OXO is what is known as a suicide inhibitor of aromatase." Pulled right from nutraplanet. But we know that a low dose of 6-oxo would be good in PCT, tapered correctly. It is far less harsh on estrogen then our friend ATD, but still gets the job done.
If I were to run a PCT, I would do a SERM tapered down, low dose AI tapered UP, and a product like PCS run straight through, preloaded one week prior to starting PCT.
Hope this helps...
RR
mooch2321
Well-known member
yeah...i was associating suicide inhibitor with his statement about six-oxo reducing estrogen to zero....which it does not do....it wasnt until later that i caught it... my bad....good posting renegade
brian101883
New member
So I will def need to run receptor for a PCT. What would be a good serm to run. What would be a good Anabolic Inhibitor. Tapered up and tapered down, you mean just up the dosages and lower the dosages a little but? So if I do a 4 week cycle you are saying I need to start my pct on like week 3?