Hi guys.
The reason I ask is they both have S7 in them. I wanted to make sure the double s7 wouldn’t be an issue.
it’s been shown that the ECGC in green Tea extract can inhibit androgen expression and that in high enough doses can be problematic.
Ive had nothing but positive results from sns optimize T. Just wanted to make sure stacking with AE wouldn’t be problematic in anyway, including above mentioned reason.
thanks much for any feedback in advance!!
I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying Optimize-T. Many people, myself included stack it with Anabolic Effect with great results.
I'm writing out a fairly in depth reply here, so wanted to be clear that I'm not typing it directed at you, but instead trying to make it an educational post on the subject matter. I always like to explain that bc I never want anyone to think I'm directing anything negative towards them - the only negative sentiments in my post below are towards some of the people that intentionally write clickbait out of context bs articles to get clicks but that confuse people are are a sad symptom of the scare tactic way the world is now days.
S7 portion of my reply:
Anabolic Effect and Optimize-T have 50 mg. of S7 per serving, and its perfectly fine to take 100 mg. S7 per day. you can actually go higher than that on S7 if a person want's to.
Super Swole has 100 mg. of S7 in it itself.
In my case, I use Optimize-T, Anabolic Effect, Super Swole, and Cardiovascular Support XT - that's 50 mg. + 50 mg. + 100 mg. + 50 mg. = 250 mg.
That's a positive thing, not a negative thing.
EGCG portion of my reply:
You stated:
it’s been shown that the ECGC in green Tea extract can inhibit androgen expression and that in high enough doses can be problematic.
S7 is a clinically researched patented ingredient that contains green tea extract as a portion of it. Above, you stated concern with using 100 mg. per day of S7 and I explained that you can safely use much higher dosages of S7 than that.
Keep in mind - green tea extract is only one of 7 ingredients in S7.
So, even if what you said about EGCG and androgen expression was correct, the dosage of EGCG in S7 would be nowhere high enough to be a concern.
EGCG is one constituent of Green Tea, so let's say a potent Green Tea Extract has 60% EGCG, then it would take 167 mg. of a potent Green Tea Extract to deliver even 100 mg. of EGCG - but a good Green Tea Extract would normally be 500 mg. per capsule of 60% EGCG which would be 300 mg. EGCG per capsule and the suggested use would commonly be 1 capsule 2 to 3 times per day.
The reason I broke down that math was just to assure you that you're not getting anywhere the EGCG to worry about.
But I think that you may be confused on the issue of EGCG and it inhibiting androgen expression to begin with. I don't mean that in a bad way, its a complicated subject and also one that some absolute clickbait garbage articles have been written on.
One particular article, and I hesitate to even call it that, that was written on EGCG possibly having a negative effect on testosterone references a study that was done on rodents and they were injected with a very high dosage of EGCG in an isolated form. It also quotes another study that was done on rodents orally that would have been a pretty extreme dosage of EGCG per day.
But here's what they don't say - and this is something that I mention a lot - in today's world there are tons of studies. You can find a study to show just about anything you want to if you look hard enough, but are the people writing this stuff wanting facts or clickbait? Because in that article, they seized on 2 rodent studies, one of which was done in India with very little in the way of controls - but ignored the literal hundreds of studies that show a different result, many of which were done in humans.
Let's look at it in real context:
In studies, high doses of EGCG have been shown to have anti-androgenic effects on
WOMEN with PCOS.
(Which would be a wonderful thing for women with PCOS because it could help them tremendously)
In studies on men, EGCG has been extensively researched to have an exciting anti-androgenic benefit for men with prostate cancer.
(Doesn't sound so bad when it's told in full context does it?)
Here's another good quote:
In addition to supporting the cardiovascular system and somewhat reducing the risk of cancer and type 2 diabetes, green tea may also have an important anti-androgen effect because it contains epigallocatechins, which inhibit the 5-alpha-reductase conversion of normal testosterone into DHT.
^^^^ that is not a bad thing at all.
This is an explanation directly from an HRT clinic about a summary on Green Tea and EGCG on how it supports testosterone levels:
Green tea is a potent anti-inflammatory: It protects Leydig cells in the testes from damage caused by inflammation. Testosterone is made in the Leydig cells, which are easily injured by the inflammatory process. If Leydig cells fail, then testosterone production drops. Green tea inhibits the actions of prostaglandins, inflammatory modulators; this ultimately leads to improved testosterone production. Also, chronic inflammation prevents the formation of new Leydig cells, further reducing testosterone production. Reducing inflammatory activity throughout the male body is a major factor in improving hormone balance.
It is known that certain active constituents in green tea called catechins, largely the epigallocatechins, inhibit the enzyme 5-alpha reductase. This enzyme breaks down testosterone into a by-product called dihydrotestosterone or DHT. With less 5-alpha reductase activity, testosterone levels can rise and stay at a healthy level. At the opposite end of the spectrum, excessive intake of green tea can inhibit testosterone release. Researchers discovered that this effect could be reversed if the amount of green tea consumed was lowered. Green tea has another added bonus: it also contains the bioflavonoid called quercetin, which also enhances stable testosterone levels.Researchers looking at the medicinal action of green tea noted a clear relationship between a specific green tea catechin, epigallocatechin-3-gallate or ECGC, and its benefits for male androgen hormones: They found that ECGC has the ability to help maintain stable tissue testosterone levels, and to reduce testosterone breakdown into DHT. It also supports optimal production and biological actions of other androgens and hormones such as cortisol. Avoiding spikes of adrenal stress hormones including cortisol also enhances healthy testosterone output.
^^^^ That explanation does a great job at context - how EGCG is beneficial for testosterone levels but how, as with many things, too much of it could have a reverse effect.
In summary, the information I provided on EGCG doesn't have anything to do with S7 because there's not enough in S7 to be relevant anyway; but I hope that information helps people reading better understand the subject of EGCG and its effect on testosterone levels and that reasonable levels of EGCG are good for supporting natural testosterone levels.
