CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
wash you hair with Olive Oil some time for a healthy scalp.. Won't prevent hairloss but will build a heathful environment for new hair to grow. true story
Hair Loss Prevention
- Thread starter BigVrunga
- Start date
John Smeton
Legend
CEDeoudes59 said:
i think i might try it tomorrow. the knowledge just gets deeper=)
. 
BigVrunga
Well-known member
If the EMU oil did stimulate hair growth by reducing inflammation, then I think that it might, only because the new hairs are pushing out the old ones. If you're already in a growth phase because of minoxidil/LLLT use, probably not. I think that 'initial shedding' is basically when you first start implementing a treatment that casues a spontaneous return to the anagen, or growth, cycle.
BV
Cardinal
Board Supporter
fyi,
I finally got my spiro from wholesalehairlossproducts. It is not really a cream so much as it is a thick white paste. It seems fairly easy to apply, though for the sake of conservation it might be good to thin it with some sort of liquid or apply it to a damp head. I think I used too much this first time.
It definitely smells a lot better than what I had from custom (had been sitting in my cabinet for at least a year) though it does still have an odor. It smells like a womens facial cream minus the overly pungent ingredients they put in them. Kind of mild if you ask me.
I'll report back as to how my hairloss stack stands up against 600mg of Test prop a week. Just started the prop today. So far I am very impressed with how everything worked against superdrol.
What I have actually been doing (as opposed to my plan):
Finasteride: 1+mg ed split into 2 divided doses
Minoxidil: 1-2X ED
AA: 1X ED
Spiro: 1-2X ED
Within one week I will know for sure if all this will do anything against Testosterone for me.
I finally got my spiro from wholesalehairlossproducts. It is not really a cream so much as it is a thick white paste. It seems fairly easy to apply, though for the sake of conservation it might be good to thin it with some sort of liquid or apply it to a damp head. I think I used too much this first time.
It definitely smells a lot better than what I had from custom (had been sitting in my cabinet for at least a year) though it does still have an odor. It smells like a womens facial cream minus the overly pungent ingredients they put in them. Kind of mild if you ask me.
I'll report back as to how my hairloss stack stands up against 600mg of Test prop a week. Just started the prop today. So far I am very impressed with how everything worked against superdrol.
What I have actually been doing (as opposed to my plan):
Finasteride: 1+mg ed split into 2 divided doses
Minoxidil: 1-2X ED
AA: 1X ED
Spiro: 1-2X ED
Within one week I will know for sure if all this will do anything against Testosterone for me.
Nomen
New member
Cardinal: Iam looking forward to that review! In the end of summer or perhaps during the fall I will try some testo ena. But first I will evaluate this new products that i bought from minoxidil. Cardinal some stats would be nice to now do u mined share them, age, when loss started etc!?
The spiro at 5% cream version from minoxidil.com is odourless though the liquid version at 2% smells alot even after some hours of application.
Yesterday I cut my hair to 9mm, thought that would make it alot easier to apply my topicals. As I examined my head I thought it looked like a long-pile rug at first untill I decided too chop of another 4mm and left was then 5mm then I could see that typical pattern buhu
.
Btw can spiro be combined with other topicals?
The spiro at 5% cream version from minoxidil.com is odourless though the liquid version at 2% smells alot even after some hours of application.
Yesterday I cut my hair to 9mm, thought that would make it alot easier to apply my topicals. As I examined my head I thought it looked like a long-pile rug at first untill I decided too chop of another 4mm and left was then 5mm then I could see that typical pattern buhu
. Btw can spiro be combined with other topicals?
Cardinal
Board Supporter
Nomen,
As far as I know Spiro can be combined with other topicals. I prefer to put minoxidil and AA in first. That wets my head a little and makes it easier to see when it comes to applying the spiro. I am decently convinced the spiro is what is working so well against the AAS I am using.
As far as stats, though I had some initial shedding in 2004 before AAS, it was made worse after cycles of M1T, M5aa, SD, Test E, Test prop, and Tren Acetate. After that load of drugs spread over 2 years time, my hair was much thinner. I am 26 years old now.
As far as I know Spiro can be combined with other topicals. I prefer to put minoxidil and AA in first. That wets my head a little and makes it easier to see when it comes to applying the spiro. I am decently convinced the spiro is what is working so well against the AAS I am using.
As far as stats, though I had some initial shedding in 2004 before AAS, it was made worse after cycles of M1T, M5aa, SD, Test E, Test prop, and Tren Acetate. After that load of drugs spread over 2 years time, my hair was much thinner. I am 26 years old now.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
would you guys consider a transplant (assuming the procedure is done by a great doctor)?
i want to understand why everyone is so resistant to this idea, considering the procedure is nearly flawless today.
i want to understand why everyone is so resistant to this idea, considering the procedure is nearly flawless today.
BigVrunga
Well-known member
Yes, I'd definitely consider a transplant. Although the costs of a one-time transplant vs constant treatments probably equal out over time, its tough to come up with that kind of cash right away and I dont think HRS is covered under insurance.
Another reason, at least for me...I pretty much have a full head of hair now, thanks to the methods we've discussed in this thread. I know that if I discontinued using Minox/LLLT, etc it would regress to the state it should be in rather quickly (Ie: nearly bald),
I cant walk in with a full head of hair and get a hair transplant, as the doc wouldnt know where to transplant the new follicles. Id have to let all my hair fall out, etc. Not something I wanna deal with.
If the treatments fail eventually, Ill bic my head for a while until I can spring for high-quality transplants for sure.
Or who knows, maybe Ill like being bald
BV
Another reason, at least for me...I pretty much have a full head of hair now, thanks to the methods we've discussed in this thread. I know that if I discontinued using Minox/LLLT, etc it would regress to the state it should be in rather quickly (Ie: nearly bald),
I cant walk in with a full head of hair and get a hair transplant, as the doc wouldnt know where to transplant the new follicles. Id have to let all my hair fall out, etc. Not something I wanna deal with.
If the treatments fail eventually, Ill bic my head for a while until I can spring for high-quality transplants for sure.
Or who knows, maybe Ill like being bald
BV
John Smeton
Legend
Im with Bv on this one. Id consider it if i had the money up front , it got bad enough, or whatever
travbedaman
Member
CEDeoudes59 said:
As a last resort sure, however transplants can be tricky for some. Lets say I get one now before my hair loss was too great..sure my hair looks nice afterwards but for how long? Eventually if one contiued to lose too much hair, there would possibly not enough donor area to cover the rest. (depending upon the persons amount of genetic programed loss).
Follicle cloning would solve that, which is on the horizon, may be best to fight it out with other treatments now and later when the cloning is availible then - no need to worry about donor areas being over harvested.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
In case you are following along at home and want further reading and more specific hair-loss forums:
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CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
Here's a little something-something about Testosterone when used with Finasteride. From Viking69
I have researched throughout the site and found the most "expert" opionons on finasteride use to prevent accelerated hairloss while on AAS.
Genetic makeup determines if hair follicles are sensitive to the DHT hormone (dihydrotestosterone), causing them to shrink. This "shrinkage" results in overall thinning hair with time. Finasteride acts by stopping the formation of Dihydrotestosterone.
Finasteride is an 5AR enzyme inhibitor, and if i am correct AAS covert to DHT through this manner.
Here are a few educated opionons I have found:
Cy wrote
"Psychological issues could be argued but the issue of an effect upon body composition has already been answered pretty thoroughly, within the literature, though I still see the topic discussed widely on the Internet. Skeletal muscle possesses little to no 5 alpha-reductase activity (unlike tissues such as the prostate and scalp as you're concerned with) and thus the idea that a 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor is going to have a negative impact is unlikely. This is a good reminder to always consider the effects upon the tissue and not simply in serum.
In support of this, when administering finasteride and testosterone concurrently in men, they've found that there was no significant difference in terms of an effect upon body composition in those receiving testosterone versus testosterone and finasteride.
(J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Mar;90(3):1502-10) Along those same lines, the general consensus from the available data is that finasteride only has a minimal effect upon libido, strength, fertility, etc.
Just for the sake of discussion, the increase in testosterone seen with finasteride could be one of two things and I've seen authors hypothesize both. One is that since you're inhibiting 5 alpha-reductase, you're preventing the normal 5 alpha-reduction of endogenous testosterone and thus you're going to have a higher circulating amount. The other is that by inhibiting 5 alpha-reductase in the brain, you're allowing for a lesser degree of androgenic negative feedback, thus increasing endogenous testosterone production. In any event, in clinical studies, you don't always see an increase in testosterone, and I do remember in one, it only lasted a short time before returning to baseline.
If it were me, hopefully now that my concerns about body composition were not as great, I'd at least give it a try. Even in those who have found that it caused depression, it generally dissipates upon cessation of use. I would also however, have a thorough discussion, if you decide to use it, with your physician about the possibility for gynecomastia and monitoring for it and any other potential side effects. "
Gang of Five answeared this same question with...
"We love this question! The reason that we love it is that we have almost perfected an over-the-counter topical hair loss solution utilizing a three pronged approach that starts working in 12 weeks. While working on this formula, we have subsequently become well versed about hormone-induced hair loss. The reason for the hair loss that you have described is likely multifactorial but we will address the DHT aspect of your hair loss.
Without admitting to having actually experimented with finasteride ( Proscar ) myself, let us just say that it is a very interesting drug. Your hair is likely falling out, in part, secondary to the elevation of DHT that occurs when serum androgens are elevated. Your hypothesis about androstenedione and DHEA being the culprits is probably right on the money. Believe it or not, so is your solution.
Using finasteride to combat this type of DHT elevation is a very intelligent and simple method of hair loss minimization. You will not "counter" the androgens used to gain muscle nor will there be any negative "biochemical stuff" occurring as a result of finasteride administration. There are even studies that suggest that finasteride use in the 5mg per day range will increase your endogenous testosterone levels. We can't guarantee a complete remission of your hair loss but your idea will work better than any other out there (except for mine, of course). Keep on training and keep on thinking"
I have researched throughout the site and found the most "expert" opionons on finasteride use to prevent accelerated hairloss while on AAS.
Genetic makeup determines if hair follicles are sensitive to the DHT hormone (dihydrotestosterone), causing them to shrink. This "shrinkage" results in overall thinning hair with time. Finasteride acts by stopping the formation of Dihydrotestosterone.
Finasteride is an 5AR enzyme inhibitor, and if i am correct AAS covert to DHT through this manner.
Here are a few educated opionons I have found:
Cy wrote
"Psychological issues could be argued but the issue of an effect upon body composition has already been answered pretty thoroughly, within the literature, though I still see the topic discussed widely on the Internet. Skeletal muscle possesses little to no 5 alpha-reductase activity (unlike tissues such as the prostate and scalp as you're concerned with) and thus the idea that a 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor is going to have a negative impact is unlikely. This is a good reminder to always consider the effects upon the tissue and not simply in serum.
In support of this, when administering finasteride and testosterone concurrently in men, they've found that there was no significant difference in terms of an effect upon body composition in those receiving testosterone versus testosterone and finasteride.
(J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Mar;90(3):1502-10) Along those same lines, the general consensus from the available data is that finasteride only has a minimal effect upon libido, strength, fertility, etc.
Just for the sake of discussion, the increase in testosterone seen with finasteride could be one of two things and I've seen authors hypothesize both. One is that since you're inhibiting 5 alpha-reductase, you're preventing the normal 5 alpha-reduction of endogenous testosterone and thus you're going to have a higher circulating amount. The other is that by inhibiting 5 alpha-reductase in the brain, you're allowing for a lesser degree of androgenic negative feedback, thus increasing endogenous testosterone production. In any event, in clinical studies, you don't always see an increase in testosterone, and I do remember in one, it only lasted a short time before returning to baseline.
If it were me, hopefully now that my concerns about body composition were not as great, I'd at least give it a try. Even in those who have found that it caused depression, it generally dissipates upon cessation of use. I would also however, have a thorough discussion, if you decide to use it, with your physician about the possibility for gynecomastia and monitoring for it and any other potential side effects. "
Gang of Five answeared this same question with...
"We love this question! The reason that we love it is that we have almost perfected an over-the-counter topical hair loss solution utilizing a three pronged approach that starts working in 12 weeks. While working on this formula, we have subsequently become well versed about hormone-induced hair loss. The reason for the hair loss that you have described is likely multifactorial but we will address the DHT aspect of your hair loss.
Without admitting to having actually experimented with finasteride ( Proscar ) myself, let us just say that it is a very interesting drug. Your hair is likely falling out, in part, secondary to the elevation of DHT that occurs when serum androgens are elevated. Your hypothesis about androstenedione and DHEA being the culprits is probably right on the money. Believe it or not, so is your solution.
Using finasteride to combat this type of DHT elevation is a very intelligent and simple method of hair loss minimization. You will not "counter" the androgens used to gain muscle nor will there be any negative "biochemical stuff" occurring as a result of finasteride administration. There are even studies that suggest that finasteride use in the 5mg per day range will increase your endogenous testosterone levels. We can't guarantee a complete remission of your hair loss but your idea will work better than any other out there (except for mine, of course). Keep on training and keep on thinking"
Nomen
New member
I think some results of transplants are overrated due possible manipulation or just picking out best results pictures, I dont know, not for sure about this bit skeptical!
But I must admit the thought of transplant has struck my mind a couple of times and in the future when Iam done with my studies I think Iam going to have a transplant! Think it will be a FUE transplant to the template, hopefully my treatment with DHT inhibitors etc will be successfull enough so i wont be in the need for any more on top else I will look like zizou
But I must admit the thought of transplant has struck my mind a couple of times and in the future when Iam done with my studies I think Iam going to have a transplant! Think it will be a FUE transplant to the template, hopefully my treatment with DHT inhibitors etc will be successfull enough so i wont be in the need for any more on top else I will look like zizou
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
BV, these are for you to confirm...
Finasteride inhibits DHT via 5ar from Testosterone derivatives right? So it should/will inhibit DHT from DBOL, yes?
I'm going 2.5mg of Finasteride ED, with a cruise of ~250mg-350mg of Assorted Test Esters (OMNA) so I'm over 1000ng/dl - I'll get the exact number (bloodwork next day or so). I'm slowly switching to just Prop and HCG.
Hairloss is drastically down and it's regrowing like crazy (moreso on crown). Thanks to finasteride, minoxidil, IGF, homemade nizoral ~10%. green tea probably helps too.
My opinion (if prone to MPB) use finasteride at:
1mg off cycle entirely or post cycle therapy period
2.5mg on high normal cruise (over 1000ng/dl)
5mg on super-physiological doses 500+mg of test
what says you
knock on wood..
walking donut = :donut:
Finasteride inhibits DHT via 5ar from Testosterone derivatives right? So it should/will inhibit DHT from DBOL, yes?
I'm going 2.5mg of Finasteride ED, with a cruise of ~250mg-350mg of Assorted Test Esters (OMNA) so I'm over 1000ng/dl - I'll get the exact number (bloodwork next day or so). I'm slowly switching to just Prop and HCG.
Hairloss is drastically down and it's regrowing like crazy (moreso on crown). Thanks to finasteride, minoxidil, IGF, homemade nizoral ~10%. green tea probably helps too.
My opinion (if prone to MPB) use finasteride at:
1mg off cycle entirely or post cycle therapy period
2.5mg on high normal cruise (over 1000ng/dl)
5mg on super-physiological doses 500+mg of test
what says you
knock on wood..
walking donut = :donut:
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
from MACE (UGFRZ4L):
According to Author L Rea saw palmetto will inhibit testosterone activity by acting as a receptor site blocker.
Here is what he recommends for anti balding
2.5 mgs finastride twice daily
.5 mgs dutasteride or more daily
Adex .5-1mg ed or Femura 1.5-2.5mg daily
5% minoxidil used twice daily
2% spironoloactone twice daily NOT used at the same time as the minoxidil
Nizoral shampoo 3-5 times per week
take it or leave it...
Other recommendation I read was 1.25mg of Finasteride:500mg of Test.
I come to suggest 2.5mg per 500mg. LRea would probably agree, if not suggest more
No Adex or Letro ever, Aromasin all the way.
According to Author L Rea saw palmetto will inhibit testosterone activity by acting as a receptor site blocker.
Here is what he recommends for anti balding
2.5 mgs finastride twice daily
.5 mgs dutasteride or more daily
Adex .5-1mg ed or Femura 1.5-2.5mg daily
5% minoxidil used twice daily
2% spironoloactone twice daily NOT used at the same time as the minoxidil
Nizoral shampoo 3-5 times per week
take it or leave it...
Other recommendation I read was 1.25mg of Finasteride:500mg of Test.
I come to suggest 2.5mg per 500mg. LRea would probably agree, if not suggest more
No Adex or Letro ever, Aromasin all the way.
Last edited:
BigVrunga
Well-known member
Hey CeDeoudes,
He recommends that stacked all at once? I wonder why Finasteride and Dutasteride together? Although users have reported good results with dutasteride, Im a little nervous of it myself. Its got a *very* long half life and blocks close to 100% of DHT conversion. Maybe as an on-cycle only precaution, but Id be more comofortable with Finasteride at 2.5-5mg per day for prostate and hairline protection. Why is he inhibiting aromatase as well? Is that his 'on cycle' stack?
I dont know about SP interfering with testosterone...Ive taken it before at high dosages for 3-4 months and never noticed a problem. That anecdotal though, who knows exactly what was going on on the inside.
That sounds solid to me. Personally, when it comes that time for me again. Ill be running 2.5mg Finasteride/day, with 2% sprio 2x per day in addition to my normal stack.
BV
He recommends that stacked all at once? I wonder why Finasteride and Dutasteride together? Although users have reported good results with dutasteride, Im a little nervous of it myself. Its got a *very* long half life and blocks close to 100% of DHT conversion. Maybe as an on-cycle only precaution, but Id be more comofortable with Finasteride at 2.5-5mg per day for prostate and hairline protection. Why is he inhibiting aromatase as well? Is that his 'on cycle' stack?
I dont know about SP interfering with testosterone...Ive taken it before at high dosages for 3-4 months and never noticed a problem. That anecdotal though, who knows exactly what was going on on the inside.
That sounds solid to me. Personally, when it comes that time for me again. Ill be running 2.5mg Finasteride/day, with 2% sprio 2x per day in addition to my normal stack.
BV
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
BigVrunga said:
Right. It certainly will save your prostate and your hair.
So you'll have a nice head of hair and a small prostate to go along with a limp **** and a pair of sagging breasts. It's way overkill in my book. But it might not be out of the question if your are running over a gram - sort of a frontload of anti-DHT 'supplements'.
Rea is bald but he never really cared. He's got some wild stacks, which perplex me. I like his dieting techniques though. He loves to pyramid up-down and up again. They make sense if.and.only.if you are running a HRT dose year round (200-250mg).
He's killing E because he's killed DHT completely. DHT regulated estrogen, but you knew that.. is that what you meant/asked?
adex and letro are ridiculous to use at any time (to me). I don't get any estrogen sides though. They mess up your lipids and you feel like crap. Aromasin or ATD/6oxo all the way.
Okay, I've gone off on a bit of a rant. But advanced bros use 6oxo on cycle - they swear by it. Massive doses of test and they cut bodyfat while bulking, simply from the 6oxo. Aromasin and ATD probably would have the same effect.
i keep trying to find the chart on Finasteride and Testosterone. The numbers suggested:
While on 500mg of Test, 1mg of Finasteride will lower your DHT level to what it would have been OFF-CYCLE without Finasteride. 1mg is ideal to me while off-cycle.
So I'm going to say:
While on 500mg of Test, ~2.5mg of Finasteride will lower your DHT level what it would have been OFF-CYCLE with Finasteride. 2.5mg+ is ideal to me at 500mg or less of test.
this is all my theory. no medical studies folks, I'll tell you in a few months if it works for me.
BigV: Dbol and Finasteride, what do you think...
Last edited:
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
DBOL and Finasteride:
As with many other 17aa steroids, Dbol is also a very weak binder to the Androgen Receptor, so most of its effects are thought to be non-receptor mediated, and are attributable to other mechanisms (protein synthesis, etc…). This also means it only has a modest aromatase activity (6).
Using Dianabol before a bodybuilding competition is not a great choice, as the water retention makes it difficult to attain the “cut” look necessary to place well. Dianabol causes a strong increase in protein synthesis as well as post workout nitrogen repletion (1). Dianabol will aromatize via the aromatase enzyme to estradiol so an estrogen blocker such as nolvadex or the Aromatase Inhibitor (AI) Arimidex (anastrozole) is strongly recommended along with it by many of it’s users who found the excess water retention to be a problem(5). Dianabol will not convert to DHT, but rather dihydromethandrostenolone, so one would want to use finasteride to stop conversion if they are worried about losing hair.
References:
1. 1 Serakovskii S, Mats'koviak I., Effect of methanedienone (methandrostenolone) on energy processes and carbohydrate metabolism in rat liver cells, Farmakol Toksikol 1981 Mar-Apr;44(2):213-7
2.Dorlands Medical Dictionary. Merck Source. Copyright 2004. Merck & Co., Inc., Whitehouse Station, NJ, USA.
3.Chemfinder. Copyright 2004 CambridgeSoft Corporation. Cambridge, MA, USA.
4. Rea, Author L. Chemical Muscle Enhancement: Bodybuilder’s desk Reference. Copyright 2002.
5. Invalid Link Removed
6. Invalid Link Removed (hooker’s Dianabol Profile)
7. Clin Sci (Lond). 1981 Apr;60(4):457-61
8. Steroids. 1984 Dec;44(6):485-95.
9. Vrach Delo. 1983 Nov;(11):34-6. Russian
10. Acta Med Acad Sci Hung. 1975;32(1):27-34
11. 4 Nesterin MF, Budik VM, Narodetskaia RV, Solov'eva GI, Stoianova VG., Effect of methandrostenolone on liver morphology and enzymatic activity, Farmakol Toksikol 1980 Sep-Oct;43(5):597-601
-----
BV- still want your opinion though..
-----
As with many other 17aa steroids, Dbol is also a very weak binder to the Androgen Receptor, so most of its effects are thought to be non-receptor mediated, and are attributable to other mechanisms (protein synthesis, etc…). This also means it only has a modest aromatase activity (6).
Using Dianabol before a bodybuilding competition is not a great choice, as the water retention makes it difficult to attain the “cut” look necessary to place well. Dianabol causes a strong increase in protein synthesis as well as post workout nitrogen repletion (1). Dianabol will aromatize via the aromatase enzyme to estradiol so an estrogen blocker such as nolvadex or the Aromatase Inhibitor (AI) Arimidex (anastrozole) is strongly recommended along with it by many of it’s users who found the excess water retention to be a problem(5). Dianabol will not convert to DHT, but rather dihydromethandrostenolone, so one would want to use finasteride to stop conversion if they are worried about losing hair.
References:
1. 1 Serakovskii S, Mats'koviak I., Effect of methanedienone (methandrostenolone) on energy processes and carbohydrate metabolism in rat liver cells, Farmakol Toksikol 1981 Mar-Apr;44(2):213-7
2.Dorlands Medical Dictionary. Merck Source. Copyright 2004. Merck & Co., Inc., Whitehouse Station, NJ, USA.
3.Chemfinder. Copyright 2004 CambridgeSoft Corporation. Cambridge, MA, USA.
4. Rea, Author L. Chemical Muscle Enhancement: Bodybuilder’s desk Reference. Copyright 2002.
5. Invalid Link Removed
6. Invalid Link Removed (hooker’s Dianabol Profile)
7. Clin Sci (Lond). 1981 Apr;60(4):457-61
8. Steroids. 1984 Dec;44(6):485-95.
9. Vrach Delo. 1983 Nov;(11):34-6. Russian
10. Acta Med Acad Sci Hung. 1975;32(1):27-34
11. 4 Nesterin MF, Budik VM, Narodetskaia RV, Solov'eva GI, Stoianova VG., Effect of methandrostenolone on liver morphology and enzymatic activity, Farmakol Toksikol 1980 Sep-Oct;43(5):597-601
-----
BV- still want your opinion though..
-----
Nomen
New member
Found some information of the topical androgen RU 58841. Well its not exactly RU I guess but the company that developed this androgen called Roussel Uclaf has merged with Prostrakan who are now developing a non steriodal androgen based on Roussel Uclaf research! See the their website for more info: Invalid Link Removed
On the scratch it seems like the same thing as proskelia is develping which a posted bout before...
Anyway development is in phase II. As i just learnd it is the most critical phase. Phase II is where most studies fail due to toxication and not sufficent results. This far no systemic effects have been found and its suppose to be good general and dermal tolerance.
On the scratch it seems like the same thing as proskelia is develping which a posted bout before...
Anyway development is in phase II. As i just learnd it is the most critical phase. Phase II is where most studies fail due to toxication and not sufficent results. This far no systemic effects have been found and its suppose to be good general and dermal tolerance.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
I really think you can pretty much crush hairloss altogether if you are willing to exceed 1mg of Finasteride and avoid DHT-derivs. (if you are a AAS user). Use the Nizoral and Minoxidil too
John Smeton
Legend
Author L. Rea knows his stuff . Hopefully taking saw palmetto does work for hairloss. Ive hear that the blocking of dht in the scalp(for saw palmetto) is so low it doesnt work. I hope the mans right on this.
i agree with Bv if your wanting to keep as much as hair possibl;e dont do the heavy dht whatevers. In checmial muscle enhancement By Author L. Rea theres a list of all the roids that are pretty safe on the hairline.
anavar is one of them. deca is also...as far as i know superdrol is also..also mohn...mdien is not
my take on it is your going to be bigger than most guys when you eat right, sleep 8 hours a night, relax and keep stress levels low, and train good. so why take the big risk of messing your hormones of of wack ..and having serious sides. Its all a personal choice.
i dotn know what caused me to shred...could have been a natural hair phase , could have been superdrol coming off, could have been gasparis nolvadex xt. who knows..all i know i didnt like it. and will do what it takes to have a full head of hair.
i agree with Bv if your wanting to keep as much as hair possibl;e dont do the heavy dht whatevers. In checmial muscle enhancement By Author L. Rea theres a list of all the roids that are pretty safe on the hairline.
anavar is one of them. deca is also...as far as i know superdrol is also..also mohn...mdien is not
my take on it is your going to be bigger than most guys when you eat right, sleep 8 hours a night, relax and keep stress levels low, and train good. so why take the big risk of messing your hormones of of wack ..and having serious sides. Its all a personal choice.
i dotn know what caused me to shred...could have been a natural hair phase , could have been superdrol coming off, could have been gasparis nolvadex xt. who knows..all i know i didnt like it. and will do what it takes to have a full head of hair.
Cardinal
Board Supporter
Cardinal said:
As promised.
I have been on test prop at 600mg EW for eight days now. So far no increase in shedding. I will make one final note in about a week or two but it looks like right now this hair loss stack will stand up just fine against testosterone. I had pretty significant problems even at doses as low as 100mg EW in the past.
I am also really liking that finasteride may be quite good for my prostate. Another side effect risk reduced somewhat if you ask me.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
hey Cardinal, please keep us (ME) updated. I am thinking 2.5mg of finasteride per 350mg of test.
thanks!
thanks!
BigVrunga
Well-known member
Hey guys sorry about the delayed response I was on vacation...
So if Dbol is converting to 5aa via 5AR, then finasteride should definitely help with any hairloss issues in that regard. I dont know if the topicals will block 5aa though, although its so close to DHT you'd think they would be effective.
For those of us who are prone to MPB but choose to use AAS, I think any steroid that converts to DHT via 5AR (test, etc) can have its negative hair-loss related effects controlled effectively with 5AR blockers like finasteride.
Like CEDeoudes mentioned above, I dont think its a good idea to eliminate ALL DHT conversion. DHT helps control estrogen, and contributes to strength and other nice things like muscle hardness and vascularity. As well as playing role in libido and ejaculate production. Ideally, we just want to bring DHT levels down to where they would be 'normally' while you're on cycle. "normally" for a guy with MPB would mean of course where DHT levels are at if using finasteride daily to treat hairloss.
Anyone using 5AR converting anabolics should consider finasteride - like mentioned above it also helps with prostate health and that's something we all should be very conscious of.
The other anabolics that cause hairloss like 1-test , tren , etc can only have their effects effectively controlled by general androgen blockers like spiro, or hopefully RU58841 if its every available.
Rea's idea for a hair loss prevention stack certainly sounds effective, but also seems like way too much chemical manipulation of your body's hormones for the average AAS user. If you can see a doctor every week and get blood work to make sure you're not ****ing yourself over, its a great idea if you need to run 3+g of test a week
Other than that, 2.5-5mg of finasteride and the prevention treatments discussed here would work great, IMO.
BV
So if Dbol is converting to 5aa via 5AR, then finasteride should definitely help with any hairloss issues in that regard. I dont know if the topicals will block 5aa though, although its so close to DHT you'd think they would be effective.
For those of us who are prone to MPB but choose to use AAS, I think any steroid that converts to DHT via 5AR (test, etc) can have its negative hair-loss related effects controlled effectively with 5AR blockers like finasteride.
Like CEDeoudes mentioned above, I dont think its a good idea to eliminate ALL DHT conversion. DHT helps control estrogen, and contributes to strength and other nice things like muscle hardness and vascularity. As well as playing role in libido and ejaculate production. Ideally, we just want to bring DHT levels down to where they would be 'normally' while you're on cycle. "normally" for a guy with MPB would mean of course where DHT levels are at if using finasteride daily to treat hairloss.
Anyone using 5AR converting anabolics should consider finasteride - like mentioned above it also helps with prostate health and that's something we all should be very conscious of.
The other anabolics that cause hairloss like 1-test , tren , etc can only have their effects effectively controlled by general androgen blockers like spiro, or hopefully RU58841 if its every available.
Rea's idea for a hair loss prevention stack certainly sounds effective, but also seems like way too much chemical manipulation of your body's hormones for the average AAS user. If you can see a doctor every week and get blood work to make sure you're not ****ing yourself over, its a great idea if you need to run 3+g of test a week
Other than that, 2.5-5mg of finasteride and the prevention treatments discussed here would work great, IMO.
BV
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
what are the other 5-ar AAS'
just to clarify.
just to clarify.
John Smeton
Legend
Poll: for Guys who want to do an expirement - when you run your hands though your hair(like when washing your hair- run it threw about 25 times and get it good and see how many hairs come out on both hands.....
the reason for this is because m a lot of hairs get trapped into our heads 50- 100 hairs of losing hairs a day is normal. now if your hairs get caught up in your head doesnt it make sense that when washing hair is the time when theyll come out?
i read that on a hairloss website.
the reason for this is because m a lot of hairs get trapped into our heads 50- 100 hairs of losing hairs a day is normal. now if your hairs get caught up in your head doesnt it make sense that when washing hair is the time when theyll come out?
i read that on a hairloss website.
John Smeton
Legend
apple cider vineger might help with hairloss.
also a guy in the gym i train at told me the duchiside(sp) is better than finiside(sp) for hairloss.. and it can be in pill form or topically applied. hes said hell bring in the information on it to me.
also a guy in the gym i train at told me the duchiside(sp) is better than finiside(sp) for hairloss.. and it can be in pill form or topically applied. hes said hell bring in the information on it to me.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
dutasteride.
John Smeton
Legend
yep dutasteride.
Nomen
New member
Cardinal said:
Okej thx for the update.
I guess u inject every other day, right? And a total of 600mg ew!
Would u plz give some more detail info bout this again cardinal how far gone was your shedding before roids (norwood scale) and where are u at now? Did u shed on sides?
Perhaps to early to detect other sides like acne or increas of body hair though if u experience those sides it would be of intreset to know that asweöö since those sides also come from elavated DHT levels. I think it will give a hinch of the effect of finastride n topicals.
Nomen
New member
CEDeoudes59 said:
Always been told that there is no cure for MPB but u can delay it. People respond diffrently to androgens cause of gentics i suppose, though must agree finastride is the most promesing treat out there. I will have propecia prescribed in a few months after my vist at a specialist clinic for dermal/hair.
Cardinal
Board Supporter
Nomen said:
Yes I am injecting every other day. The prop I have is quite managable when it comes to pain. Before roids, I had little to no actual hair loss. It was just one shedding phase that lasted maybe a few months right before I started my first 1-T/4AD cycle. If anything I was either a 1 or 2 on the norwood scale.
I don't know if it would have continued unabated or maybe it would have been a temporary shedding phase had I not started roids. I don't think I would end up losing much more very quickly if I stopped taking them now. I am only concerned about being able to run anabolic steroids cycles sans trouble from time to time.
So the value of my feedback may be limited to knowing that I don't respond well to steroids at all when it comes to hairloss (M5AA, Test, 4AD, 1-T and Tren for sure all resulted in a lot of shedding that left my hair significantly thinner), but what I am using seems to be highly effective so far. If anything I would be willing to be my hair may thicken a bit while I am on.
When I shed I shed from all around, sides and top. The crown would be the first patch to go along with some receding on either front side of my head.
I would be moving toward a 3 or 4 on the norwood scale should the loss continue.
Hope that clarifies it a bit.
-Cardinal
Nomen
New member
BigVrunga said:Yup. I wonder if stem cell research and human cloning technologies could help find gene therapy that could cure MPB forever.
Guess we'll have to wait on that one
BV
Yeah too bad your president, mr Bush is not very fond of stem cell research, he rescently said no to new foundings for stem cell research or if their perhaps was a law in favor for stemcell research that he said no to or whatever way it was.
When do u guys think spiro is suppose to show its effect, weeks, months, half year? Iam thinking that I might not respond positive to spiro
though only been on that for 2weeks.I have been on spiro 2% liquid 2xday for about 2 weeks now and retonic 1xday 2weeks(sometimes I have also applied the 5%spiro cream). And also been using minoxidil standard liquid(rogaine) for over a year. Rogaine toghter with retonic I apply only on templates while I use spiro at pretty much at every exposed area of the head! Btw been on LLLT for 2weeks aswell!
I still shed a ****load I think, see pictures that I have attached.(Picture shows hair I have collected from the floor where i brush and from the comb togheter with some dryied topicals) Other picture is me showing front head, u can see, dont no if this is the correct word but think u call it fluff!?(small hair regrown from rogaine that hasnt grown out to full hair)
Attachments
Nomen
New member
Cardinal: Hmm perhaps u are not that very sensetive to androgens. Tren for sure is really bad for your hair, a DHT derivate I think, so loss on that roid wount be supprising u will need Jay Cutler hair genetics not too loss on that one! Cycling on testo I think will be better if taking topicals finastride etc. But for the sensetive one not for sure
Cardinal
Board Supporter
Nomen said:When do u guys think spiro is suppose to show its effect, weeks, months, half year? Iam thinking that I might not respond positive to spiro
I have been on spiro 2% liquid 2xday for about 2 weeks now and retonic 1xday 2weeks(sometimes I have also applied the 5%spiro cream). And also been using minoxidil standard liquid(rogaine) for over a year. Rogaine toghter with retonic I apply only on templates while I use spiro at pretty much at every exposed area of the head! Btw been on LLLT for 2weeks aswell!
All the experiential evidence I have shows that spiro works immediately (by works I mean significantly decreases shedding and makes hair much harder to pull out). Though I could be wrong within a day or two of starting it, my hair shedding became a non-issue.
I like to apply it once at night. But I cover my whole head and am aiming only to stop the shedding not to regrow hair. So if you want to see if it slows all around shedding, I would put it on every area of your scalp. You might try being a bit generous with it for a few days just to make sure you are getting it where it needs to be.
Since I am one to push the boundaries, I may end up trying Tren again in 4-6 weeks time. If spiro can stand up to tren, I don't think I will have trouble running anabolics period.
BigVrunga
Well-known member
Na, just means there will be no government funding. With all the money the pharmaceutical companies have though, hopefully it wont be a problem.
Ah yeah you did, sorry about that Nomen...
Well, Minoxidil has varying degrees of effectiveness for each individual. 86% report results, but that varies from a cessation of hair loss to complete regrowth, with most falling somewhere inbetween.You might want to give Dr Lee's 15% minoxidil solution a try...Ive been meaning to get another bottle myself, it seems to be more effective than the 5%
BV
Rage (SoCal)
Board Supporter
Do we have new links on the best place to buy the laser comb? somewhere reliable? I'd love to make my own but wouldn't mind spewing out the additional $50 for something a little more professional. Thanks.
Also, if you guys are experiencing hair loss on a cycle and are going to start fina and are currently treating it with nizoral, minox, and spiro would you stop your cycle or just let any additional shedding occur? The reason I ask is because I'm in the situation but I figure I should be able to grow back a lot of hair as the shedding has all been within this year. Maybe or maybe not. We'll see. But I do plan on starting Fina soon, once I decide on a solid source, and i will get a laser comb as soon as one of you brothers hook me up with some linkage. Thanks guys
Also, if you guys are experiencing hair loss on a cycle and are going to start fina and are currently treating it with nizoral, minox, and spiro would you stop your cycle or just let any additional shedding occur? The reason I ask is because I'm in the situation but I figure I should be able to grow back a lot of hair as the shedding has all been within this year. Maybe or maybe not. We'll see. But I do plan on starting Fina soon, once I decide on a solid source, and i will get a laser comb as soon as one of you brothers hook me up with some linkage. Thanks guys
BigVrunga
Well-known member
Hey Rage, got a reply to your PM coming. In the meantime, check out:
Invalid Link Removed
Best place to get one AFIK. You can build your own 6-laser brush for ~$45 or so, it will look about the same as that one, without the custom top. (unless you want to build that too)
BV
Invalid Link Removed
Best place to get one AFIK. You can build your own 6-laser brush for ~$45 or so, it will look about the same as that one, without the custom top. (unless you want to build that too
)BV
Rage (SoCal)
Board Supporter
In the past hour I've looked into making one myself. I've found a couple of resources. Do you have any sources for the lasers and what not? To my understanding they are simple LLT lasers that should be able to found in numerous places. Thanks.
Rage (SoCal)
Board Supporter
I found this. May be of some help:
I saw the follice 5 on the TV and the LaserComb(tm) seemed to hold its own against the Big Boys of the hairloss industry.
So I read up on Low Level Laser Therapy (cold lasers) and I was thinking , it could work but is probably a scam. $645 no way, did a little research such as reading the patent from the Patent Office website and with the help of others figured out the type, power and wavelength of the laser used by the high dollar LaserComb( tm).
So here is what I did, found a trace line laser on Ebay $29 delivered, bought a hairbrush at the dollar store, AAA 2 cell battery pack and on/off slide switch from Radio Shack. Drilled a hole for the laser in the center of the brush, wired it up and turned it on. Took about an hour to finish it.
If you want to have a look at it, go see my pics of it at:
Invalid Link Removed
We will see how it works, I have used it three times since I finsihed it.
(1) 650 nm 5mw Class 3A laser US $23.99+ 4.95 shipping
(1) $1 hair brush
(1) AAA battery Pack $1
(1) slide switch $1
(2) AAA batteries $1
So mark the $32.94 up to perverse entertainment, of unless the damn thing actually works.
This is a pretty good link with great information on the types of lasers to use. Enjoy
Invalid Link Removed
I saw the follice 5 on the TV and the LaserComb(tm) seemed to hold its own against the Big Boys of the hairloss industry.
So I read up on Low Level Laser Therapy (cold lasers) and I was thinking , it could work but is probably a scam. $645 no way, did a little research such as reading the patent from the Patent Office website and with the help of others figured out the type, power and wavelength of the laser used by the high dollar LaserComb( tm).
So here is what I did, found a trace line laser on Ebay $29 delivered, bought a hairbrush at the dollar store, AAA 2 cell battery pack and on/off slide switch from Radio Shack. Drilled a hole for the laser in the center of the brush, wired it up and turned it on. Took about an hour to finish it.
If you want to have a look at it, go see my pics of it at:
Invalid Link Removed
We will see how it works, I have used it three times since I finsihed it.
(1) 650 nm 5mw Class 3A laser US $23.99+ 4.95 shipping
(1) $1 hair brush
(1) AAA battery Pack $1
(1) slide switch $1
(2) AAA batteries $1
So mark the $32.94 up to perverse entertainment, of unless the damn thing actually works.
This is a pretty good link with great information on the types of lasers to use. Enjoy
Invalid Link Removed
BigVrunga
Well-known member
You can get 6 of 'em for that price bro:
http://cgi.*********/650nm-5mW-laser-module-3VDC-adj-lens-650-nm_W0QQitemZ120013716479QQcmdZViewItem
That auction has ended, but just email them they have a ton of them.
They're 3v DC, so you'll need a universal PSU to wire them up, or you can wire them up to a battery back that puts out 3v.
You can also find 650nm laser pointers for like $5.00, and rip the diodes out of them and hook them up to a battery in parallel.
http://cgi.*********/Most-powerful-...6QQihZ016QQcategoryZ14954QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
One laser will work, but you'll be at it for like an hour a day trying to get adequate coverage on your scalp.
BV
BV