H.E.A.T. ans Phenogen

I guess this is all a bit moot as I reasearched Enova online and just went out and bought some. So that will replace any oils I use.

Mr.50


Mr.50 said:
Prolang,

I have heard the buzz about Enova but I really don't know that much about it. I will search now. Any information you could provide would`be appreciated.

Mr.50
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Enova (DAG/diglyceride) oil is a really good choice for cutting. I commend your buy.
 
Guys I cheated again this week and got on the scale early on today, Saturday (usually not till Monday). Usually I weigh myself in the after noon after eating all day and drinking plenty of water. Today I had some water and was carrying my water bottle at the gym but I had not eaten yet. Got on the scale and I was down to 184!!!!!! (actually then I took off shoes, etc and I was 182.5) So I have to say that things are still proceeding apace. I guess this week I just had a lot of food stuff stuck in my intestines (very surprised about that with all the Trimax, but that is the only explanation). So things are still going great and I am going to hold off on kicking in the Clen unless it really starts to plateau. Also emotionally I feel great.

On the negative side my legs feel pretty fatigued from all the cardio and I am really flat. I think that if I carb'ed up right now I would look pretty good but at this point I don't feel like a look very great since I just feel so flat. Hard to have separation when your this flat. I am excited though for Wednesday because I have given myself one carb up cheat day for a UNICO (Italian Club) dinner I am going to with all the other guys I box with. We usually go once a month. Sad when the biggest thing you look forward to is a meal 4 days away.:sad:

Mr.50
 
Hold it down formerly-big guy. You'll get there. And it will be ridiculously delicious with minimal adipose spill-over (ask for some balsamic vinegar and lemon juice on the side).
 
Well I was 181.5 pounds tonight before my one and only carb refeed meal till this is all over. I went all out and had a ton of food. Some soup, salad, (both not too bad) tons of pasta (bad) and lots of chicken and pork. When I finished dinner I felt like my abs might rip from all of the food stretching them. But right now is about an hour and a stop at the bathroom later and I feel fine. Usually on my typical diet my digestion does not move that fast so I stay bloated after a big meal for hours. But this time my digestion was good, maybe because of the Trimax, and I feel ok. I am interested to see what the damage was on the scale. I will find out tomorrow. I also did extra cardio today to limit the damage as best as possible. I have 17 days to go and 6 pounds to lose. It seems like it is well within reach at this point but I am not going to get cocky about this till its over.


Mr.50
 
Guys I started some potassium with magnesium today as well as 1500mg of Taurine. The question I have is, can any of these make you retain sub cutaneous fluid? because by tonight I look much softer around the mid section already and that is the only thing I can think of that I changed. I was going to introduce these today and begin my Clen at 20mcgs on Sunday building up to 80mcgs.


Mr.50
 
Got on the scale first thing this morning before eating and working out. With nothing on I was 179. Thats a loss of 19 pounds in four weeks. I actually feel really goo also.

On the negative side I clearly look more ripped up but I have lost a fairly significant amount of size. As everyone said, if this was a true cutter, for appearance rather then weight loss, I would have to say a strong anabolic would be required.

I have two more weeks to go on this plan. At that time I will slowly drop all cutting supps and add in MAN Body Octane, Clout, and a No2 type product along with the Ultra HOT and ActivaTe. I have a fight scheduled for mid June so I will likely focus on skills training till then and eat maintenance. After that it will be focus on appearance, so likely this cutter for two weeks followed by short two week bulkers throughout the remainder of the summer including some "other " substances.


I have to say that Phenogen and HEAT are two of the best supplements I have taken. I have been on long term antidepressant therapy and I have never felt, emotionally, as good as I do when I take my HEAT. The Phenogen speaks for itself.

Mr.50
 
I have to say that Phenogen and HEAT are two of the best supplements I have taken. I have been on long term antidepressant therapy and I have never felt, emotionally, as good as I do when I take my HEAT. The Phenogen speaks for itself
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:cheers:
That is freaking awesome!!! I'm sure others will be glad to try that out based on your experience. It seems everyone must go by trial and error (because of personal difs, etc.) for many things, but that is really good news given your exp. with antidepressants!!!
 
Well guys I took my first dose of Clen today. Phoenix Labs liquid clen. Only took 20 mcgs and I have to say I have shakes like crazy and I am hot as ****. From only 20mcgs (tenth of an ML)!!!!! Must be additive effect with everything else.

My question is, with the effect seemingly so potentiated, when should I move up to 40mcgs? Should I wait till shakes, etc are gone? or just go up tomorrow like I planned? All this with the fact in mind that at this point I am more interested in getting the anti-catabolic/partitioning effects then a fat burning boost. As far as fat/calorie burning I think I am burning enough, I just would like to do it at this point without burning so much more muscle and unfortunately I can not use an anabolic.

Mr.50
 
Give your self a couple days, the tremors will go away. Id slowly go up if your sensitive to only 20mcg. Be prepared for your cardiovascualr endurance to go in the shitter.
 
Last time I used Clen (without the other supps) I was no where near this sensitive. Interesting synergistic effect.
What do you guys think is it most likely the HEAT?

Mr.50
 
Most likely. It's probably just more central and symphathetic nervous system stimulation than your body's used to (even though Clen doesn't really hit either all that hard). At least we know there's certainly no quality issue with your Clen.
 
No. Definately no quality issue. Plus it is over a year old. (Not that thats a big deal but something)


Mr.50
 
Mr.50 said:
I have to say that Phenogen and HEAT are two of the best supplements I have taken. I have been on long term antidepressant therapy and I have never felt, emotionally, as good as I do when I take my HEAT. The Phenogen speaks for itself.

Mr.50
Click to expand...

I mentioned this on my board, but as many know, I LOVE my psychoactive chemicals. Over the last 6 months, I've been working towards cutting them out.

Finally have been clean the last month or so, only taking HEAT and nicotine gum, and I have been happier than I have been in at least 2 years.

It is certainly subtle, I don't get the wonderful mania as with three or four 40's of Old E, but I'm just sort of happy almost all of the time.
 
Mr.50 said:
Last time I used Clen (without the other supps) I was no where near this sensitive. Interesting synergistic effect.
What do you guys think is it most likely the HEAT?

Mr.50
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Phenogen would also have ramped up beta receptor number/density.
 
Interesting info about the Phenogen Par. I have used Clen in the past and was able to use at least 100mcgs without any trouble. At this point I am on my third day and I am still only using 20mcgs because I still have the shakes, etc. Even better if it works at this point.

Mr.50
 
Bit of a rough day today guys. I had a few PVCs (irregular heartbeat) while at rest. During exercise everything is fine but I felt a few off beats while I was driving. A bit scarey. Maybe the Clen is just too much?



Mr.50
 
Still at 20mcgs if you can believe that. I have never had these type of problems with Clen before. Is the half life of Clen long enough to build up over a few days so that even though I have been taking 20mcgs for four days now it is like I am taking 30mcg per day etc. (Not that even that dosage would be expected to have these side effects) I am going to take my blood sugar. I wonder if it is just lowering my blood sugar and that is what the side effects are from not the actual stimulation of the Clen.


Mr.50
 
There's a possibility (I wouldn't have expected it but, like I said, *it's possible*) that all the Sesathin plus Clenbuterol is putting a little more of a burden on your heart than is really good for you. It's pretty well known that clen is implicated in intermittent tachycardia (sudden, rapid racing of the heart), since intense beta-adrenergic stimulation (the heart expresses b2s as well) can increase rate and force of cardial contraction. On top of that, the heart expresses a lot of PPARalpha, because it uses a higher % of FFAs for fuel than most other muscle tissues, and all that Sesathin activating PPARalpha in addition to the clenbuterol may be what's causing the PVCs (or it could also just be the clenbuterol).

Perhaps it might be wise if you did indeed drop the clen, just for safety's sake.
 
So far today I feel better. We will see as the day goes on. I am really starting to look better and my weight actually was up last night to 180 so I don't know if its the addition of the Clen and some low volume weight training or just food in the intestines. I will monitor this carefully and see where I am at by the end of the day. I may have to drop the Clen though. Thanks Loki.


Mr.50
 
Im not a fan of clen to begin with anymore. I really wish I didnt use E/C so much either, just for energy, not for fat loss. Im hoping once AMP comes out, and then when Dominate makes its debut from AL, I can get rid of the E for good.
 
It is a pre workout supplement pretty much along the same lines as AMP. Because AMP had such overwhelming positive feedback, Par wants to reformulate it. It may be on the back burner now, Im not sure. But AL wont put out what would not be considered best of the best in it's respective category.
 
Pretty excited about that.

Guys I have a really important question to ask all of the bright minds here.
I am about to get a blood test and urine test done for some life insurance coverage. I am wondering if any of the supps I am taking could endanger my test results? Tes list of stuff is below. Also I dropped the Clen today and I fell much better mentally and physically.


Ultra HOT three caps in the evening
Phenogen 12 caps spread out throughout the day
HEAT 9 caps spread out throughout the day
Trimax 3 caps spread out throughout the day
Zoloft 50 mgs at night
Bactrim for acne (30 years old and I still break out like puberty. I already know I will has elevated liver enzymes from this one)
EFA (Fish Oil balanced blend)
Lechithin
cAmphobolic 6 caps spread out throughout the day.

Ton of stuff but what the hell. Anyway as I said I dropped the Clen today so that should not be a factor but I need to get a blood and urine test done for eligibility for Life Insurance and I want to know if I should delay it till after I am done with this cutter? and if so how long?

Mr.50
 
I guess I am ignorant on what Blood tests for life insurance is for. If your in really bad helath, or something of that nature, do they deny you a policy?
 
Sorry I should have explained more. Yes in a way you are correct. This is for "whole life" insurance not "term life" and let me tell you guys about it FYI. Term life you just pay a premium and if you die while you have been paying the premium they pay whoever you want to get the money at your death; but the policy has no cash surrender value. Whole life is a much better investment in that you start paying into it when you are young (35-40 or less usually to get a reasonable rate). The money is invested in mutual funds etc, (conservative investments) during your lifetime and it accrue's a "cash surrender value" at approximately 10 years equal to the value you have put into it over the ten years. Each year after that the cash value is higher then you have put in for the total of the number of years. By the time you are 65 (or 60) you stop paying the premium and the total cash value of the policy is a little more then double the total amount you have deposited over the years (assuming an modest 8% return on average over 30 years). During the duration of th policy your money is growing tax free and anytime after 10 years you can withdraw the cash value of the policy as a "loan" against the payout of the policy (when you die). The benefit is that the "loan" is not taxable as income and does not have to be payed back during your life.

This is far off topic though. The bottom line is I am thirty and they want to see the likelyhood that I am going to die so they won't have to pay out on the policy for a number of years until I have already paid in the face value of the policy. The do a number of blood tests like, Drug Screen, HIV, Cholesterol, CBC, etc to see if there are many markers for sudden death or a likely cause of death.

My fears are that something in my supplement regimine will screw up my cbc and make me look like I am going to keel over. Or raise my liver enzymes so that it looks like I am going to have liver failure, etc.

As an update to the purpose of this post. I dropped the Clen yesterday not because of the side effects but because my weight was starting to actually "increase" . My diet has been the same, cardio the same etc. The only change was on Sunday I added the Clen and then my weight plateaued at the beginning of the week and by Wednesday night I had actually gained about 1/2 to 1 pound. This is unusual since I have been losing 5 pounds a week on average. I also looked tremendously better (fuller) by that point. But I got to make the weight by next Saturday and then I can focus on training, and a few weeks after that appearance. So at this pont no Clen. The only thing I forgot to mention in the list above was 600mgs of 7-oh Diprop per week to keep Cortisol in check. Does the 7-OH F*&^ with HDL levels?


Mr.50
 
Just letting you guys know. I have to weigh in on Saturday and make 175 rather then Sunday. So it will be Saturday at high noon. My weight this afternoon was 178 after cardio. Not bad but not great. I really need to get an empty stomach/firt thing in the morning weight. I have to say that I am really starting to look good now though. I don't know what accounts for the change from looking really flat to starting to look full again without adding any carbs but it seems to be happening.
 
Even at 178 right now, I bet you could start some diuretics for a couple days and make weight. What is it again your trying to weigh 175 for?
 
Agreed. I am trying to do it without diuretics too much but if it gets to Thursday and I am still off I will kick them in. As far as the weigh in goes it is sort of 2 fold: The first part being pretty stupid and the second part for a real reason.

First part is I bet a friend who has no will power and doesn't think anyone else does that I would weight 175 by May 1st (that is my fighting weight; well below 178 actually) but I said 175 to him. So he thinks that you should just live this hedonistic lifestyle and not deprive yourself too much even for a good reason. So we made a bet and thats it. Sort of childish but it is to prove a point and for bragging rights (also for a small amount of cash).

The second reason is farther off in June I have a boxing match and would like to fight in the under 178 class. That at least is a reason that has more of a point.


Mr.50


prolangtum said:
Even at 178 right now, I bet you could start some diuretics for a couple days and make weight. What is it again your trying to weigh 175 for?
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Mr 50 - Great work! Did the irregular heart beats just go away?

Also, Loki - you mentioned that the sesathin could have something to do with it, I don't understand?
 
Yah they went away about two days after I dropped the Clen.

Mr.50


Jeff said:
Mr 50 - Great work! Did the irregular heart beats just go away?

Also, Loki - you mentioned that the sesathin could have something to do with it, I don't understand?
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I was 175 on the dot this after noon post workout. I am going first thing in the morning to do some cardio on an empty stomach so that is going to determine what kind of day tomorrow will be. It should be no problem at this point as there is always the dehydration option but hopefully it wont't come to that. Hopefully tomorrow I will be below 175 in the morning and then I will just have a tight day to finish it off. All I got to say is Saturday afternoon I can't wait to go eat.

Mr.50


prolangtum said:
hows it coming along?
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Weighed in first thing this morning without having eaten, before workout, and only drank enough water to take my supplements. 173 lbs. As long as I don't lose it today it should be no problem. I am starting to look a bit freaky (freaky small, but ripped with a good amount of veins and striation in certain body parts) I can't wait to carb up and kick in the Clout and Body Octane.
 
Final weigh in number was 170lbs. So thats a loss of 28 lbs in 6 weeks!!!! And I look pretty good right now (small though) I can't wait till I carb up. I will write more up later.
 
You should do a log of your carb up too.

Would be especially interesting to see blood sugar levels compared with intake timing and weight gain.

Hopefully you kept most your strength and power, you should be quick like bunny.
 
I am going to the gym tonight. I have basicall been a total glutton since Saturday afternoon. I will begin to tighten things up today and by the end of the week I will be on a clean lean mass gain diet (not a bulk just a little muscle) with some ALRI products in the mix. I would like to see this afternoon how much weight I have put on since Saturday. I plan on repeating this cut cycle again in a few weeks for a short while and then towards the end of the summer I may do it for 4 weeks again. Hopefully at that time I will have the money and ability to have blood work done at the beginning, middle, and end of this cycle to determine safety. I am a bit concerned that there may be to much cardiac stress caused by this. I am not sure of this (no true science) but I am sure that The Reporter was taking some of these products (as well as others) before his death. That woke me up a bit and I am going to try to acess the health perspectives of my cycles a little more carefully in the future especially as far as cardiac stuff goes.
 
I just wanted to let you guys know I went to the gym this afternoon and in approximately 54 hours I gained 10lbs (I am sure glycogen and water). That is some funny **** though.

On another note I am only taking 2 HEAT 3X per day now instead of 3 3X per day. Also I dropped the Trimax to 1 a day instead of 3.Trying to slowly cut back on both of these and I have to say my mood has suttlely declined. A little anxiety and depression today. Barely noticed it; just a feeling deep below the surface. Also No Phenogen.
 
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