Gyno rebound

[Ayegee1503]

Heard on a podcast today with Seth feroce ... that you can get gyno rebound from nolvedex... is this true ?

 

[Iwilleattuna]

Hmm, they either said nolvadex , but meant arimidex, or....

They used nolvadex to fight estrogenic sides, but when they came off the nolva, they still had high estrogen as nolvadex just binds to the tissue and fights off estrogen. AKA, to reduce gyno, but doesn't really decrease circulating levels. When they came off the nolva, they should have been running an AI .

Pretty sure nolva can increase prolactin, so maybe that's another theory

Ill have to watch the podcast

 

[booneman77]

Heard on a podcast today with Seth feroce ... that you can get gyno rebound from nolvedex... is this true ?

You can get rebound from anything that causes spikes and tanks of your natural hormone levels. Nolva works by simply blocking estrogen receptors, it does absolutely nothing to combat estrogen production or change levels. simply doesnt allow it to bind to the receptors (in this case specifically in breast tissue, causing gyno). WHen you stop the Nolva, these receptors are once again free and any circulating and newly produced estrogen can then bind, causing gyno (in extreme cases).

Nolva is meant to be used simply to trigger more natural test production by "tricking" the body into thinking it doesnt have enough estrogen (which is created from the natural test) and therefore needs to create more test, which can then be converted (some) to estrogen.

This is the difference between a SERM and an AI. An AI (like arimadex) is meant to directly impact the estrogen levels by binding directly to the aromataze enzymes in your body (which is the one that converts T to E) and simply doesn't allow E to even be created (thus lowering the levels).

 

[Ayegee1503]

You can get rebound from anything that causes spikes and tanks of your natural hormone levels. Nolva works by simply blocking estrogen receptors, it does absolutely nothing to combat estrogen production or change levels. simply doesnt allow it to bind to the receptors (in this case specifically in breast tissue, causing gyno). WHen you stop the Nolva, these receptors are once again free and any circulating and newly produced estrogen can then bind, causing gyno (in extreme cases).

Nolva is meant to be used simply to trigger more natural test production by "tricking" the body into thinking it doesnt have enough estrogen (which is created from the natural test) and therefore needs to create more test, which can then be converted (some) to estrogen.

This is the difference between a SERM and an AI. An AI (like arimadex) is meant to directly impact the estrogen levels by binding directly to the aromataze enzymes in your body (which is the one that converts T to E) and simply doesn't allow E to even be created (thus lowering the levels).

Thank you very much brother for that explanation... appreciate it

 

[StarScream66]

Hmm, they either said nolvadex , but meant arimidex, or....

They used nolvadex to fight estrogenic sides, but when they came off the nolva, they still had high estrogen as nolvadex just binds to the tissue and fights off estrogen. AKA, to reduce gyno, but doesn't really decrease circulating levels. When they came off the nolva, they should have been running an AI .

Pretty sure nolva can increase prolactin, so maybe that's another theory

Ill have to watch the podcast

I found a rat study showing Nolva can increase prolactin, but I've never heard of rebound gyno from Nolva. If you use it in the proper amounts, you should be fine. I've heard of people taking up to 100mg of Nolva to get rid of gyno..

Effects of tamoxifen on serum prolactin levels, pituitary immunoreactive prolactin cells and uterine growth in estradiol-treated ovariectomized rats - PubMed

Pituitary effects of the antiestrogen tamoxifen are not well established, although estrogen is known to have a stimulatory role in prolactin secretion. Effects of tamoxifen on serum prolactin levels, pituitary wet weight and number of prolactin cells were studied. Ovariectomized female Wistar...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Thank you very much brother for that explanation... appreciate it

its that excess estrogen while being stopped at the receptor creates a high amount of estro, the body will try and raise test at at an alarming rate causing a release of aromatase that is a double whammy so to speak. this is why tapering off the SERM helps to slow that transition time rather than just shutting off the signal when you 20/20/20/20
so..imo its right after the taper on the SERM you start up a little bit of your favorite AI. get through the rough spot right there and things should balance out nicely.

 

[Ayegee1503]

its that excess estrogen while being stopped at the receptor creates a high amount of estro, the body will try and raise test at at an alarming rate causing a release of aromatase that is a double whammy so to speak. this is why tapering off the SERM helps to slow that transition time rather than just shutting off the signal when you 20/20/20/20
so..imo its right after the taper on the SERM you start up a little bit of your favorite AI. get through the rough spot right there and things should balance out nicely.

I like that information thank you

 

[Alexey]

Heard on a podcast today with Seth feroce ... that you can get gyno rebound from nolvedex... is this true ?

Forget Nolvedex, Only Raloxifene work for gyno.

 

[Ayegee1503]

Forget Nolvedex, Only Raloxifene work for gyno.

I wasnt asking that ... the podcast said that nolva cause rebound gyno ... not asking how to get rid of gyno but thank you

 

[StarScream66]

Forget Nolvedex, Only Raloxifene work for gyno.

Proof?

 

[JoePaul39]

its that excess estrogen while being stopped at the receptor creates a high amount of estro, the body will try and raise test at at an alarming rate causing a release of aromatase that is a double whammy so to speak. this is why tapering off the SERM helps to slow that transition time rather than just shutting off the signal when you 20/20/20/20

Interesting info here I did not know. Should people running Serms on cycle to block estrogen start the tapering down of a Serm after the cycle or on? Also, would trt effect this scenario of the body increasing aromatization from a Serm since the body no longer can create testosterone on it’s own?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

in scenario one I would personally come off the serm at the end of the cycle for 2-3 weeks depending on the cycle. then start a normal PCT protocol.. my theory would be to let some of that built up estrogen clear out naturally before going to pct. the missing serm for those couple weeks shouldnt creat too much of a problem as your androgen levels will still be high.
in scenario 2 there is no need for PCT as the user artificially keeps their test levels stable. however, i am a little confused, exogenous test can still aromatize if thats what you are asking.

 

[JoePaul39]

in scenario 2 there is no need for PCT as the user artificially keeps their test levels stable. however, i am a little confused, exogenous test can still aromatize if thats what you are asking.

Basically what I am am asking is this- I am on trt, if I used a Serm on cycle to block estrogen, rather than an AI to stop estrogen (prefer not to use AIs since they are bad for lipids), would gyno estrogen rebound from stopping the Serm at the end of the cycle still be a concern? If so, how could this be prevented? I would think it would be a possibility since all the estrogen when on cycle with the Serm would be building up.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Basically what I am am asking is this- I am on trt, if I used a Serm on cycle to block estrogen, rather than an AI to stop estrogen (prefer not to use AIs since they are bad for lipids), would gyno estrogen rebound from stopping the Serm at the end of the cycle still be a concern? If so, how could this be prevented? I would think it would be a possibility since all the estrogen when on cycle with the Serm would be building up.

remember.. that unless we are talking about methyl estrogen, the body can excrete the unbound estrogen through normal pathways.. the build up isnt a problem in the prescence of normal test levels. The problems occur when everything gets out of balance.. like when you quit taking gear. when on trt... and you say end of cycle, doesnt mean the same thing right?

 

[JoePaul39]

Thanks for your answers!

 

[JoePaul39]

remember.. that unless we are talking about methyl estrogen, the body can excrete the unbound estrogen through normal pathways..

So methyl estrogen like from say Trest the body cannot excrete?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

So methyl estrogen like from say Trest the body cannot excrete?

it can of course but its much harder to break down, and thus build up of it can be a real issue for some.

 

[Ayegee1503]

Very good knowledge being thrown out thank you brother

 

[Nac]

Forget Nolvedex, Only Raloxifene work for gyno.

Ralox works better yes, but nolva works too.

 

[JoePaul39]

Very good knowledge being thrown out thank you brother

Ya @xR1pp3Rx is the go to bro for all things anabolic questions! Dude should write an fn book!

 

[Whisky]

remember.. that unless we are talking about methyl estrogen, the body can excrete the unbound estrogen through normal pathways.. the build up isnt a problem in the prescence of normal test levels. The problems occur when everything gets out of balance.. like when you quit taking gear. when on trt... and you say end of cycle, doesnt mean the same thing right?

yeah my understanding of these things would mean that at the end of a blast (when your on trt but running an increased dose for a period of time it’s really a blast rather than a cycle) your still taking test which will convert so the hormonal reaction wouldn’t be anywhere near the same as your body still has test to convert and estrogen from that. When you go from a cycle to pct your producing zero/very little test and therefore the body will convert everything as it has no estrogen at all.

on a blast all you are managing is the excess levels from the increased test dose (or other converting aas) rather than the massive swing from cycling. So tapering off the serm dose as you return to trt dosing should be fairly smooth.

I’ve only really heard of rebound gyno when one runs compounds with no conversion and then cycle off and start producing test which will all convert to compensate.

just my understanding and I’m nowhere near as knowledgeable as ripper or others on this stuff

 

[JoePaul39]

This is what I love about trt...not only does it help you maintain gains, but it also reduces the probability of getting gyno.

 

[Whisky]

This is what I love about trt...not only does it help you maintain gains, but it also reduces the probability of getting gyno.

the maintaining gains and strength through switching to cruise and blast has blown my mind. Absolutely night and day difference.