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Gyno - Nolva or Arim?

fausty

New member
I finished a HDROL cycle over a month ago. I have notice today i have a definite HARD lump just under the lower part of my left nipple. Lump is small but similar lump is not present under right nipple.

I have access to both boxed Arimidex and Nolva.

Which one should I take to REDUCE this lump? And how much should I take.

Also, how long should I take it for and what should I take AFTER I have finished that is OTC?



Kind thanks.
 
letro...and get out asap...once it sets in...your ****ed

nothing removes the estrogen from your body like letro does....just be prepared to suffer from some joint pain and loss of libido

Here is solid gyno reversal protocol: Comes from a reputable source...pm if you really need that info:

I am posting this thread to help answer all of the questions regarding gyno prevention and reversal, the use of letrozole and other anti-e’s. I will go over everything in very simple easy to understand language. Also we are talking about estrogen gyno here, not progesterone (but using letro will stop progesterone related problems as well since it inhibits all estrogen anyways). Progesterone gyno will be enlargement of your nipple area, the actual aereola, not a lump under it.

Let me make this first point very clear, as I state in my signature this is from my personal experience, so whether you agree with it or not is your own issue. I have helped many people with gyno and it has worked just fine for them as well.

To first understand why you are doing what you are doing I am going to go over a few things and a few definitions:

SERM – Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects.
Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)
AI – Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI’s prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.
Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.

Letro and your sex drive:
Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. This is another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.

Running letro to prevent gyno:
If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and I suggest you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an AI. Letro will be the most powerful AI you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects.

You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood. I have often heard the argument that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don’t know if I buy into this for the reason that I have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe I recommend starting it before your cycle as stated above.

If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another AI or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.

This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno…let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.

It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.

How do I know if I have gyno?
If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.

Running letro to reverse gyno:
I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.

1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.

1.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

2.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

3.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

Day 1: 2.0mg
Day 2: 1.5mg
Day 3: 1.0mg
Day 4: .50mg***
Day 5: .25mg
***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.
 
Thanks guys but I cannot get Letro (No, I'm not asking for sources for any). If the lump stays the same size it is I'm ok, I just don't want it any bigger or develop puffiness.

So Adex? How long should I take it for and what OTC after the Adex? Thanks.
 
You cannot reverse gyno...it is benign enlargement of the gland (its technically not a tumor)...the only way to fix it is to have it removed....

Pseudogynecomastia on the other hand can be treated effectively because it is more of an adipose issue around the breast area...

The two are often confused, and quite often when you hear of it in bodybuilding circles as being "fixed", they are referring to the latter. Unless of course, the fixing involved surgery.

holy
 
Letrozole (Femara) is the chemical name of Novartis´ selective third generationAromatase Inhibitor (AI). This drug was developed to fight breast cancer by inhibiting the aromatization. It is usually used as a part of an aggressive treatment in post-menopausal women, to fight and reverse the spread of breast cancer after other treatments (such as Tamoxifen therapy) has failed. It´s probably the most efficient product on the market for this purpose currently (5) It is very similar in structure and action to it´s predecessor Arimidex.

Letrozole (Femara) also does quite a few things which would be of interest to both bodybuilders and athletes. Firstly, it has been shown to reduce estrogen levels by 98% or greater (1). In at least one documented incidence, Letrozole (Femara) reduced estrogen in the test subject to undetectable levels, and increased LH, FSH and SHBG (4). Clearly this is all of interest to bodybuilders, as less estrogen in the body means less chance of certain side effects such as water-retention, Gynocomastia, and acne. This makes Letrozole (Femara) an appropriate choice for even the heaviest bulking or cutting cycles including harsh androgens. Also, if you are a competitive bodybuilder, Letrozole (Femara) is a must have product for contest prep; no other Ancillary compound will produce a dry and tight look like Letro will.

An effective dose of Letrozole (Femara) is .25-.5mg/day (I use .25mgs/day), but be forewarned, if you go over that amount, it can kill your sex drive. Also worth noting is that there´s a rebound effect on your estrogen when you come off Letrozol. Maximum inhibition of the aromatase enzyme has been found to happen at doses as low as 100mcg! (2)

Letrozole (Femara)´s effects on serum lipids (cholesterol, both HDL and LDL) are, in the words of one researcher: "inconsistent. " Clearly, however, you´ll eventually suffer an impaired lipid profile and immune system if you keep your estrogen levels too low for too long. Your sex drive will also probably suffer from extraordinarily low levels of estrogen present.

As previously mentioned, Letrozole (Femara) can be used to raise LH and FSH (which are hormones which signal your testes to produce more testosterone). It also, of course, will raise your testosterone levels (6) via this mechanism. Again, this is of interest to athletes and bodybuilders for obvious reasons. Letrozole (Femara), of course, can be used for post-cycle-therapy (PCT) to raise test levels, but for various reasons, Tamoxifen may be a better choice. Still, I have successfully used Letrozole (Femara) for this purpose.

How good is this compared with Aromasin and Arimidex, it´s too other main rivals? Well, In non-cellular systems, Letrozole (Femara) is 2-5 times more potent than anastrozole and exemestane in its inhibition of the aromatase enzyme and activity, and in cellular systems it is 10-20x more potent! It also lasts quite a long time in your body,but takes awhile to get going& Letrozole (Femara) has a whopping 2-4 day (!) ½ life, and you need to take Letrozole (Femara) for 60 days to get a steady blood plasma level (8).

Those are impressive numbers, but here´s one of the most interesting things about Letrozole (Femara):

It may reduce/eliminate/reverse existing gynocomastia!

In a study conducted on mice (*no, I know it´s not perfect), gyno-like-changes in the mammary gland were totally destroyed! Here´s a direct quote from that study:

"Our results also indicate aromatase overexpression-induced changes in mammary glands can be abrogated [destroyed] with very low concentrations of the aromatase inhibitor, Letrozole (Femara)."(7)

In addition, I´ve used Letro to get rid of my own gyno, as has a friend of mine, and we both used it at a dose of 2.5mgs/day, tapering down to .25mgs/day, and then finally off..the gyno never returned in both our cases.

I´d say that this stuff is pretty great, considering its availability and cost (when you consider the fact that .25mgs/day is more than enough protection from estrogen-related sides on most cycles), not to mention it´s overall utility for a variety of functions (destroying gyno, preventing estrogenic sides, and for PCT).
 
Adex worked for me and my lump was bad enough to feel it hurt and I wouldn't let my girl touch it. Adex took care of all of it. Now I have to really focus to feel the lump

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Thanks all...

I ONLY have access to Adex, so that is all I can use.

Previous AAS use.

Stana run 2 years ago and again 6 months later. I'm sure it was not from those runs.

HDROL @ 50mg for 3.5 weeks 8 months ago. Again I cannot be sure if it was from that run.

HDROL @ 50mg for 4 weeks which FINISHED 7 weeks ago.

I don't know when it first appearred, all I know is I have that lump now. I am certain it wasn't after the Stana runs as I was paranoid as and remember checking my nips for ages after with no lumps found. I can only put it down to wayward E levels after eith one of the HDROL runs.

I just don't want it to grow any more. I'm not too concerned about getting rid of it as it is small (for now).

I just want to stabalise my E levels. Do I have to worry about E rebound after Adex?

Thanks.
 
i would just taper off the a-dex and keep your diet clean..not sure that you need a SERM at this point..i know with letro you do...however a-dex doesn't suppress your E levels quite like letro does...just my $0.02.
 
holyintellect said:
You cannot reverse gyno...it is benign enlargement of the gland (its technically not a tumor)...the only way to fix it is to have it removed....

Pseudogynecomastia on the other hand can be treated effectively because it is more of an adipose issue around the breast area...

The two are often confused, and quite often when you hear of it in bodybuilding circles as being "fixed", they are referring to the latter. Unless of course, the fixing involved surgery.

holy
Click to expand...

Dis man speakuth da truth!!!!
 
how to dose letro to cut pre-contest..

subbed..........

great info on Letro. I'm pickin' some up for sure. Interested to know how it's dosed pre-contest on a cut. Any help??
 
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