Gyno issue bloodwork question

theanarchist

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I've got a gyno issue that doesn't seem to want to resolve with even pretty heavy dosing of letro. The gyno flared up after a short little cycle of T-bol back in October (I know you aren't supposed to have much by way of sides from t-bol but for some reason that **** just kills me). I did standard PCT with Nolva at the end of the little 6 week cycle, and everything seemed cool but then after a month it kinda started to flare up. Tried Aromasin first, didn't improve, switched to Letro, bumped up to pretty serious dosing and still wasn't really helping so I'm thinking I need to get bloodwork to figure out what's going on.

So my question is this: should I stop taking anything for a few days (Letro @ 2.5 ED) to find out what the true bloodwork says?
 
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I've got a gyno issue that doesn't seem to want to resolve with even pretty heavy dosing of letro. The gyno flared up after a short little cycle of T-bol back in October (I know you aren't supposed to have much by way of sides from t-bol but for some reason that **** just kills me). I did standard PCT with Nolva at the end of the little 6 week cycle, and everything seemed cool but then after a month it kinda started to flare up. Tried Aromasin first, didn't improve, switched to Letro, bumped up to pretty serious dosing and still wasn't really helping so I'm thinking I need to get bloodwork to figure out what's going on.

So my question is this: should I stop taking anything for a few days (Letro @ 2.5 ED) to find out what the true bloodwork says?
So how long have you been on the letro? Even if your estro is crashed it's not going to fix the gyno right away. It takes a long time to go down. Are you still having sensitivity or is it just the lump that's still there?
 
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^^ Good questions. ^^
Did you have gyno before the Tbol (at all)? If so, do you know what caused it?
 

theanarchist

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So how long have you been on the letro? Even if your estro is crashed it's not going to fix the gyno right away. It takes a long time to go down. Are you still having sensitivity or is it just the lump that's still there?
I've been on Letro for at least a month now at 2.5. The lump is still there and serious sensitivity. Especially the last week. I realized it had been so long so I thought I should start backing off and it immediately got bigger so I bumped back up to 2.5 ED. I'm worried about how long I can run that though. In all honesty, I feel good exept having no libito. My joints are a little dry but nothing too terrible. But theoretically, my E2 should be destroyed. That can't be good long term even if I tolerate it well.
 
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I've been on Letro for at least a month now at 2.5. The lump is still there and serious sensitivity. Especially the last week. I realized it had been so long so I thought I should start backing off and it immediately got bigger so I bumped back up to 2.5 ED. I'm worried about how long I can run that though. In all honesty, I feel good exept having no libito. My joints are a little dry but nothing too terrible. But theoretically, my E2 should be destroyed. That can't be good long term even if I tolerate it well.
That is very true, you don't want crashed E for very long. I would suggest you do a few days of nolva at 40 and see if the sensitivity goes away then drop it to 20mg/day. That should help pretty quick, like within a few days. As far as continuing letro, I would take 1/4 of that until the nolva starts reducing sensitivity then start backing off of it slowly. I'm only giving you advice that has worked for me. Lately I've been having better results with nolva during a flare up than ralox.
 

theanarchist

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^^ Good questions. ^^
Did you have gyno before the Tbol (at all)? If so, do you know what caused it?
Got gyno (right nip) for the first time a few years back from running Halo (the prohormone) which I know everyone says you can't get it from but trust me, you can. Took forever to fix, tried just about everything and nothing really worked. In the end everyone convinced myself that I was imagining it and I just kinda moved on.

Couple years later I did a real cycle of Test +T-bol. Gyno flared up (on both sides now) and I started taking Aromasin and then switched to letro and while on that cycle the new gyno and the old gyno both totally went away. I mean, I was taking 2.5 ED and I ended up doing that for the duration of the last couple months till I tapered, switched to Aromasin, and the did Nolva for PCT.

Everything was good for a while till I got the stupid idea that I'd do a quick little 6 week t-bol cycle just to get tighter for the last part of summer. For some reason I'm sensitive to that ****. (The gyno on the Test cycle only flared up when I added t-bol for the last half).

I've gathered I'm one of those guys who doesn't fit the perfect solution for whatever reason. For one thing, my body tolerates letro really well. I mean, I'm actually fine at 2.5 ED (except the libido but I'm single and the world shut down anyway). But I also seem to get issues from compounds that EVERYONE says you shouldn't have any issue from. I figure I just need to see some bloodwork to know whats happening.
 

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That is very true, you don't want crashed E for very long. I would suggest you do a few days of nolva at 40 and see if the sensitivity goes away then drop it to 20mg/day. That should help pretty quick, like within a few days. As far as continuing letro, I would take 1/4 of that until the nolva starts reducing sensitivity then start backing off of it slowly. I'm only giving you advice that has worked for me. Lately I've been having better results with nolva during a flare up than ralox.
What about taking Aromasin for a week then doing the Nolva thing? I've heard things about how you should take aromasin after Letro because it's a suicide inhibitor so you have less chance of rebound.

I actually did this last night I took half my 2.5 Letro and took some Aromasin also. I was thinking about essentially backing off the letro, running a week of aromasin and then doing the 40/40/20/20 Nolva so kinda what you're saying.
 
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What about taking Aromasin for a week then doing the Nolva thing? I've heard things about how you should take aromasin after Letro because it's a suicide inhibitor so you have less chance of rebound.

I actually did this last night I took half my 2.5 Letro and took some Aromasin also. I was thinking about essentially backing off the letro, running a week of aromasin and then doing the 40/40/20/20 Nolva so kinda what you're saying.
Yes if you have aromasin use that
 
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Got gyno (right nip) for the first time a few years back from running Halo (the prohormone) which I know everyone says you can't get it from but trust me, you can. Took forever to fix, tried just about everything and nothing really worked. In the end everyone convinced myself that I was imagining it and I just kinda moved on.

Couple years later I did a real cycle of Test +T-bol. Gyno flared up (on both sides now) and I started taking Aromasin and then switched to letro and while on that cycle the new gyno and the old gyno both totally went away. I mean, I was taking 2.5 ED and I ended up doing that for the duration of the last couple months till I tapered, switched to Aromasin, and the did Nolva for PCT.

Everything was good for a while till I got the stupid idea that I'd do a quick little 6 week t-bol cycle just to get tighter for the last part of summer. For some reason I'm sensitive to that ****. (The gyno on the Test cycle only flared up when I added t-bol for the last half).

I've gathered I'm one of those guys who doesn't fit the perfect solution for whatever reason. For one thing, my body tolerates letro really well. I mean, I'm actually fine at 2.5 ED (except the libido but I'm single and the world shut down anyway). But I also seem to get issues from compounds that EVERYONE says you shouldn't have any issue from. I figure I just need to see some bloodwork to know whats happening.
I understand. I never say never, as far as gyno is concerned. ANY substance that messes with hormones, has the potential to induce gyno.

One thing about Nolva ... In MOST cases, it will stop gyno in it's tracks.
 

theanarchist

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Yes if you have aromasin use that
Cool I'm going to try that. I'll switch to Aromasin to stave off rebound, then run Nolva at 40/40/20/20 and if that doesn't' resolve I think I'll have to get some bloods done. Actually, even if it does resolve I like to have blood done when I'm fully natty and healthy to make sure everything went back to normal.
 

theanarchist

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I understand. I never say never, as far as gyno is concerned. ANY substance that messes with hormones, has the potential to induce gyno.

One thing about Nolva ... In MOST cases, it will stop gyno in it's tracks.
Ya, it's super frustrating when people says that you can't get Gyno from something like t-bol. Just like you said: "never say never with gyno". I'll hop over to Nolva for a standard protocol and see if that doesn't help.
 
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Ya, it's super frustrating when people says that you can't get Gyno from something like t-bol. Just like you said: "never say never with gyno". I'll hop over to Nolva for a standard protocol and see if that doesn't help.
Yeah, it seems counterintuitive, but sometimes, even compounds that usually work against gyno, can induce it.

Nolva is great for stopping gyno, but doesn't have the same shrinking ability as some other compounds.
Use it in whatever combination you believe will work best for you ... But I'm curious what your bloodwork will show.
 

theanarchist

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Yeah, it seems counterintuitive, but sometimes, even compounds that usually work against gyno, can induce it.

Nolva is great for stopping gyno, but doesn't have the same shrinking ability as some other compounds.
Use it in whatever combination you believe will work best for you ... But I'm curious what your bloodwork will show.
I'll post an update when I get it.
 
StarScream66

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This old thread from bbcom might help you. It's all about gyno and it has answers from a doctor and a gyno surgeon on everything you can do and what helps and what doesn't to get rid of gyno.


Some of the links in that thread don't work, so you might have to copy and paste them onto archive.org to see the original versions of the linked threads and websites.

Hope that helps,
-SS
 

theanarchist

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Just as an update. I stopped taking Letro and have been taking 12.5 aromasin ED and started on 40/40/20/20 Nolva. I'll start tapering off the aromasin here in a week or so but it seems to be a hell of a lot better. Weird that the Letro wasn't doing what the aromasin and nolva are. But what do I care as long as it's working. I can't say the lump is getting smaller but there isn't constant irritation.
 
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Just as an update. I stopped taking Letro and have been taking 12.5 aromasin ED and started on 40/40/20/20 Nolva. I'll start tapering off the aromasin here in a week or so but it seems to be a hell of a lot better. Weird that the Letro wasn't doing what the aromasin and nolva are. But what do I care as long as it's working. I can't say the lump is getting smaller but there isn't constant irritation.
Glad to hear it's getting better. The lumps are going to take months to go away depending on size, but as long as you're not feeling them itchy or painful they should be regressing and shrink down. I've noticed that the lumps have to shrink quite a bit before the actual puffiness starts to go away. Keep on the plan and you should be good. And don't mess with your hormones for a few months after this clears.
 
~Vision~

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wjats y
I've got a gyno issue that doesn't seem to want to resolve with even pretty heavy dosing of letro. The gyno flared up after a short little cycle of T-bol back in October (I know you aren't supposed to have much by way of sides from t-bol but for some reason that **** just kills me). I did standard PCT with Nolva at the end of the little 6 week cycle, and everything seemed cool but then after a month it kinda started to flare up. Tried Aromasin first, didn't improve, switched to Letro, bumped up to pretty serious dosing and still wasn't really helping so I'm thinking I need to get bloodwork to figure out what's going on.

So my question is this: should I stop taking anything for a few days (Letro @ 2.5 ED) to find out what the true bloodwork says?
How high is your body fat %. It may bot even be the TBOL , because it shouldn't... Unless its bunk, but raws aren't that expensive and if some small labs are still bunking, get it tested and whistle blow on them..

Any how People will possess different amounts of enzymes as we know, genetics and so on, so lets pass that winded rant.. Basically there's precursors throughout the body and these can be found in all sorts of tissue including adipose tissue..When a hormone simulates the effects of T it can awaken "storage like cells" or even receptors that will react as if the presence of a specific hormone is about..Now some agents like Drol doesn't aromatize nor can it activate estro metabolites but how does one get estro like sides?!?! In principle it's said that some AAS won't convert however it's been proven that in some instances "mostly rare" that this can in fact take place outside of what we know as "normal aromatization", there's a vast amount of transformations in the body..Some aas have been transformed within their positions to avoid this, and others by delivery method (attempting to avoid the stomach by way of enzymes, and gastro tracks or even directly with the liver)..

Why do some people always have sensitive nipples?
Endogenous estrogenic biosythesis and promoters of different transcription factors is vast with it's diversity of actions, some people such as your self may possess secondary messengers and promoters and this can be expressed through different skeletal tissue, and even by way of stomach enzymes and other non reproductive tissue with E2 synthesis... Genetics is a huge contributor!

Think of a forest fire and all hoses aimed down on one spot attempting to occupy and inhibit that fire from spreading, it just takes one random amber to fly out unbeknownst to anyone and create an entirely differ set of issues behind the backs of the fire-fighters, flanking them so to speak..

I see and recognize that most of us have a keen understanding of the biological actions in which E2 is mediated between with the basic formality of what we know as the "normal aromatization" by way of hormones and enzyme presence, but in all actuality with the manner in which E2 can be transcribed can be hosted by a variety of factors.. It's a complex interplay with multiple identities made up of various interconnected signaling and cross-talk!

Examining nipples to often:
Do yourself a favor and stop touching them, every-time you touch it you're stimulating the glandular duct tissue, the more stimulation you're giving greater the chance of you inducing further inflammation to the ducts.. it's very similar to the process with females when milking for babies, it's called supply and demand.. the more you touch it and the more you stimulate it the more potential you have of growth..

This is true...

In fact there was a study conducted on a unit in the German Army honor guard, they would drill repeatedly and their replica rifles would continuously hit a specific side of their pecs, I forget offhand what side it was but we're going to say the left side just for topic sake.. a majority of the soldiers in the honor guard unit were developing gynecomastia on the same exact side.. after a thorough investigation and a study was conducted it was found that the repetitiveness and continuous contact and stimulation to the nipple and the surrounding glandular duct tissue it was inducing gynecomastia.. only on that one side..

This is why I tell people do not continuously investigate, by habitually feeling around and playing with bumps/lumps.. if you can feel tenderness there's no need to investigate further take the appropriate protocols to Target the symptoms, Target first then Implement long-term treatment.. targeting would include tamoxifen as a first strike inhibitor, at the same time I would include or continue the same protocol that you have with your anti estrogen, that will slow down the overall circulation of estrogen as the tamoxifen binds aggressively to The receptors within the ducts blocking the present circulating estrogen from binding to The receptors..
 
Iwilleattuna

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I understand. I never say never, as far as gyno is concerned. ANY substance that messes with hormones, has the potential to induce gyno.

One thing about Nolva ... In MOST cases, it will stop gyno in it's tracks.
I am not sure if you have seen it , but apparently topical nolva works even better . Applied directly

Defy medical carries it and uses it with their TRT

also has less systematic sides .. APPARENTLY

anyone ever try this? I wonder a compounded letro/nolva topic
 
Renew1

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wjats y

How high is your body fat %. It may bot even be the TBOL , because it shouldn't... Unless its bunk, but raws aren't that expensive and if some small labs are still bunking, get it tested and whistle blow on them..

Any how People will possess different amounts of enzymes as we know, genetics and so on, so lets pass that winded rant.. Basically there's precursors throughout the body and these can be found in all sorts of tissue including adipose tissue..When a hormone simulates the effects of T it can awaken "storage like cells" or even receptors that will react as if the presence of a specific hormone is about..Now some agents like Drol doesn't aromatize nor can it activate estro metabolites but how does one get estro like sides?!?! In principle it's said that some AAS won't convert however it's been proven that in some instances "mostly rare" that this can in fact take place outside of what we know as "normal aromatization", there's a vast amount of transformations in the body..Some aas have been transformed within their positions to avoid this, and others by delivery method (attempting to avoid the stomach by way of enzymes, and gastro tracks or even directly with the liver)..

Why do some people always have sensitive nipples?
Endogenous estrogenic biosythesis and promoters of different transcription factors is vast with it's diversity of actions, some people such as your self may possess secondary messengers and promoters and this can be expressed through different skeletal tissue, and even by way of stomach enzymes and other non reproductive tissue with E2 synthesis... Genetics is a huge contributor!

Think of a forest fire and all hoses aimed down on one spot attempting to occupy and inhibit that fire from spreading, it just takes one random amber to fly out unbeknownst to anyone and create an entirely differ set of issues behind the backs of the fire-fighters, flanking them so to speak..

I see and recognize that most of us have a keen understanding of the biological actions in which E2 is mediated between with the basic formality of what we know as the "normal aromatization" by way of hormones and enzyme presence, but in all actuality with the manner in which E2 can be transcribed can be hosted by a variety of factors.. It's a complex interplay with multiple identities made up of various interconnected signaling and cross-talk!

Examining nipples to often:
Do yourself a favor and stop touching them, every-time you touch it you're stimulating the glandular duct tissue, the more stimulation you're giving greater the chance of you inducing further inflammation to the ducts.. it's very similar to the process with females when milking for babies, it's called supply and demand.. the more you touch it and the more you stimulate it the more potential you have of growth..

This is true...

In fact there was a study conducted on a unit in the German Army honor guard, they would drill repeatedly and their replica rifles would continuously hit a specific side of their pecs, I forget offhand what side it was but we're going to say the left side just for topic sake.. a majority of the soldiers in the honor guard unit were developing gynecomastia on the same exact side.. after a thorough investigation and a study was conducted it was found that the repetitiveness and continuous contact and stimulation to the nipple and the surrounding glandular duct tissue it was inducing gynecomastia.. only on that one side..

This is why I tell people do not continuously investigate, by habitually feeling around and playing with bumps/lumps.. if you can feel tenderness there's no need to investigate further take the appropriate protocols to Target the symptoms, Target first then Implement long-term treatment.. targeting would include tamoxifen as a first strike inhibitor, at the same time I would include or continue the same protocol that you have with your anti estrogen, that will slow down the overall circulation of estrogen as the tamoxifen binds aggressively to The receptors within the ducts blocking the present circulating estrogen from binding to The receptors..
It would've been their left side pec.
 
Renew1

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I am not sure if you have seen it , but apparently topical nolva works even better . Applied directly

Defy medical carries it and uses it with their TRT

also has less systematic sides .. APPARENTLY

anyone ever try this? I wonder a compounded letro/nolva topic
Hmmm.... I've never heard anything about that.
I might ask around...
 
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StarScream66

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If you can find some Andactrim gel, you would be all set. It's topical DHT that is meant to cure gyno. I Googled it and was able to find some.
 

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If you can find some Andactrim gel, you would be all set. It's topical DHT that is meant to cure gyno. I Googled it and was able to find some.
Do you think Proviron or Masteron could be of assistance in conjunction with a serm when trying to reverse gyno?
 

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