Gyno flare up help (bloodwork)

[Chub]

Hey guys just after some input. here's whats been happening. bit of a long story.

I ran Ultra hard for 10 weeks last year (Epiandrosterone and Androsterone) then PCT with:
2 bottles Sustain Alpha
EndoAmp Max
KSM-66
Rhodiola Rosea Extract
Bacopa Monnieri
DIM

Everything felt fine till I finished up with Sustain Alpha. Was on a few nights out and next day had full on gyno symptoms. puffy, sensitive and really sore in the left nipple and a bit milder in the right.

Got hold of some Nolvadex and ran it 20/10/10/10/10/5/5. I dropped it to 10mg a week early as things improved pretty quick. Symptoms seemed to randomly pop up so I kept it going at 10mg.

However as I was tapering off symptoms re-appeared. Started SNS Inhibit E a week before I finished Nolva. I've been off Nolva 7 days now and still have the dull pain/itchy/soreness and puffiness in the evenings. Inhibit E has seemed to help with the sensitivity. I'm freaking out still tho.

I ended up been ill for a good 10 days at the start of the year with a cold/flu type bug that just made everything 10x worse proper brutal.

I've ordered some Aromasin but it won't come for probably 1-2 weeks. I had blood work done for Oestradiol, Progesterone and Prolactin. I should get the results on Monday. Need to redo my testosterone profile so those results won't be back till probably Friday. I'll update this post with results when they come in.

Should I jump back on 20mg of Nolva or wait for results? Trying to think what I've done to myself. I couldn't get hold of Raloxifene and now cash is tight after ordering Aromasin.

Any advice would be welcome!

Cheers

Chub

EDIT:

OESTRADIOL

152 pmol/L Range (41 - 159)

PROGESTERONE
2.26 nmol/L Range < 0.474

PROLACTIN
231 mU/L Range 86 - 324

Testostrone 38.53 nmol/L

Testosterone (free or unbound)
0.4688 nmol/L

Vitamin D 123 nmol/L

SHBG 84 nmol/L

Free Androgen Index
45.9:1 ratio

 

[Kronic]

are your testes shrunk? my understanding is the nolvadex might not work well if the testes are still smol. if they're still smol would need hcg afaik. someone else might have a better suggestion

 

[Chub]

They're hanging low and a good size. Don't feel shut down at all. I had alot of water retention a few weeks ago, mood was pretty low too. I put that down to the Nolva sides

 

[Kronic]

They're hanging low and a good size. Don't feel shut down at all. I had alot of water retention a few weeks ago, mood was pretty low too. I put that down to the Nolva sides

my understanding of serm is they pevent the estrogen from acting on your breast tissue and cause LH secretion, but the estrogen remains in your system and functioning. aromasin (or another ai) would be the one to make your mood stabilize and actually eliminate the estrogen from your system.

 

[Chub]

my understanding of serm is they pevent the estrogen from acting on your breast tissue and cause LH secretion, but the estrogen remains in your system and functioning. aromasin (or another ai) would be the one to make your mood stabilize and actually eliminate the estrogen from your system.

Yeah that's my understanding of it. Been reading reddit and threads on here that have really helpful stuff. Was hoping the blood work would of been back last night but looks like I'll need to wait till Monday now

 

[Renew1]

Hey guys just after some input. here's whats been happening. bit of a long story.

I ran Ultra hard for 10 weeks last year (Epiandrosterone and Androsterone) then PCT with:
2 bottles Sustain Alpha
EndoAmp Max
KSM-66
Rhodiola Rosea Extract
Bacopa Monnieri
DIM

Everything felt fine till I finished up with Sustain Alpha. Was on a few nights out and next day had full on gyno symptoms. puffy, sensitive and really sore in the left nipple and a bit milder in the right.

Got hold of some Nolvadex and ran it 20/10/10/10/10/5/5. I dropped it to 10mg a week early as things improved pretty quick. Symptoms seemed to randomly pop up so I kept it going at 10mg.

However as I was tapering off symptoms re-appeared. Started SNS Inhibit E a week before I finished Nolva. I've been off Nolva 7 days now and still have the dull pain/itchy/soreness and puffiness in the evenings. Inhibit E has seemed to help with the sensitivity. I'm freaking out still tho.

I ended up been ill for a good 10 days at the start of the year with a cold/flu type bug that just made everything 10x worse proper brutal.

I've ordered some Aromasin but it won't come for probably 1-2 weeks. I had blood work done for Oestradiol, Progesterone and Prolactin. I should get the results on Monday. Need to redo my testosterone profile so those results won't be back till probably Friday. I'll update this post with results when they come in.

Should I jump back on 20mg of Nolva or wait for results? Trying to think what I've done to myself. I couldn't get hold of Raloxifene and now cash is tight after ordering Aromasin.

Any advice would be welcome!

Cheers

Chub

In any similar situation in the future, I hope you'll start your PCT with Nolva.

What All are you using right now?

 

[Chub]

In any similar situation in the future, I hope you'll start your PCT with Nolva.

What All are you using right now?

Yeah I won't be making that mistake again. In the past I've always had Nolva on hand. Felt like the Sustain Alpha would be strong enough.

Inhibit E
EndoAmp Max
5000IU vitamin D
multi
3.3g fish oil
200mg DIM
KSM-66

 

[Renew1]

Yeah I won't be making that mistake again. In the past I've always had Nolva on hand. Felt like the Sustain Alpha would be strong enough.

Inhibit E
EndoAmp Max
5000IU vitamin D
multi
3.3g fish oil
200mg DIM
KSM-66

Ok.

Looking forward to your blood work.

 

[Kronic]

has anyone else had 0 luck with DIM? I heard one person even say it gave them gyno

 

[NegativeMass]

Did you taper off the Sustain Alpha? I find it best to taper into and off of aromatase inhibitors, even non pharmaceutical ones. Maybe a strong rebound effect as you may have had higher T from inhibiting aromatase then if you abruptly stopped inhibiting aromatase the extra T got rapidly converted to E causing an E spike? Spit balling here.

 

[Chub]

Did you taper off the Sustain Alpha? I find it best to taper into and off of aromatase inhibitors, even non pharmaceutical ones. Maybe a strong rebound effect as you may have had higher T from inhibiting aromatase then if you abruptly stopped inhibiting aromatase the extra T got rapidly converted to E causing an E spike? Spit balling here.

Yeah I was using 3 pumps then dropped it down to 2. I've always found the full dose of 5 pumps too much and gives me joint pain

 

[Chub]

That's the results in. Quite surprised E2 is still in range and Progestrone is way off. Test/free test results coming later in the week.

OESTRADIOL

152 pmol/L Range (41 - 159)

PROGESTERONE
2.26 nmol/L Range < 0.474

PROLACTIN
231 mU/L Range 86 - 324

 

[Smont]

If you were using the nolva to combat the gyno, 20mg and less is not gonna do anything. 40 is probably a good starting point and honestly ralox is a much better choice.

On another note, this is why I always tell ppl that a OTC pct is not a pct.


Also, is oestradiol the same thing as estradiol? Because my tests always show e2/estradiol range from 10-40 or 50. 152 is crazy high by my reference range.

 

[Chub]

If you were using the nolva to combat the gyno, 20mg and less is not gonna do anything. 40 is probably a good starting point and honestly ralox is a much better choice.

On another note, this is why I always tell ppl that a OTC pct is not a pct.


Also, is oestradiol the same thing as estradiol? Because my tests always show e2/estradiol range from 10-40 or 50. 152 is crazy high by my reference range.

Yeah they're the same. Are you in the US? i know in the US test is measured by (ng/dl) and here in the UK its nmol/L. not sure if E2 is different. I tried to get ralox but was out of stock. Looks like I can get liquid ralox now. The aromasin looks like it hasn't been shippped yet. Normally they're pretty quick.

Was looking at caber to lower progesterone but I would really like to avoid taking that if I don't need too. Symptoms have improved slightly but still getting pain.

 

[Smont]

Yeah they're the same. Are you in the US? i know in the US test is measured by (ng/dl) and here in the UK its nmol/L. not sure if E2 is different. I tried to get ralox but was out of stock. Looks like I can get liquid ralox now. The aromasin looks like it hasn't been shippped yet. Normally they're pretty quick.

Was looking at caber to lower progesterone but I would really like to avoid taking that if I don't need too. Symptoms have improved slightly but still getting pain.

Caber lowers prolactin, idk if it does progesterone too? But I would absolutely avoid caber unless it's 100% necessary. Look through natural means first.

Yes I'm in the US, my reference range says 10-40pg/ml on one test and I know at one point the reference range went up to 50 or 55pg/ml

So ya, I don't no exactly how those convert to yours. Just when you posted that number of 150 it rang a Bell to me cuz that would be really high for me. 100 is usually where I'm sitting on cycle. But last time I tested on trt I was low 30's or high 20's, can't exactly remember off top

 

[Smont]

To lower progesterone naturally you can try a megadoseing vd3, vb6 and vc. reducing caffeine intake, anything that lowers your stress levels will help, eat more fiber, drink green tea.

Those are all the things I can think of off the top of my head

 

[Smont]

I think it's something like 10,000iu of D3, 300-400 b6 divided into 2 doses morning and night and vc 5000mg. All those daily. Don't just take my word for it look it up for yourself cuz I'm just trying to remember here

 

[Smont]

I think it's something like 10,000iu of D3, 300-400 b6 divided into 2 doses morning and night and vc 5000mg. All those daily. Don't just take my word for it look it up for yourself cuz I'm just trying to remember here

 

[Chub]

To lower progesterone naturally you can try a megadoseing vd3, vb6 and vc. reducing caffeine intake, anything that lowers your stress levels will help, eat more fiber, drink green tea.

Those are all the things I can think of off the top of my head

I reduced my caffeine at the start of the week along with increasing fibre. Never eaten so much brussel sprouts in my life haha.I bumped my vitamin D from 5000 to 7000 but going to increase to 10k. I'll get my vitamin D results tomorrow along with my Test.

Is that p5p b6? I thought that was only good for lowering Prolactin. I've upped my cardio too

 

[Smont]

I reduced my caffeine at the start of the week along with increasing fibre. Never eaten so much brussel sprouts in my life haha.I bumped my vitamin D from 5000 to 7000 but going to increase to 10k. I'll get my vitamin D results tomorrow along with my Test.

Is that p5p b6? I thought that was only good for lowering Prolactin. I've upped my cardio too

Pretty sure p5p is the active form of b6, so the p5p dose should be lower I would assume. Yes it lowers prolactin but it can also lower progesterone. I honestly don't know how effective it is tho

 

[Smont]

I reduced my caffeine at the start of the week along with increasing fibre. Never eaten so much brussel sprouts in my life haha.I bumped my vitamin D from 5000 to 7000 but going to increase to 10k. I'll get my vitamin D results tomorrow along with my Test.

Is that p5p b6? I thought that was only good for lowering Prolactin. I've upped my cardio too

X that, p5p and b6 raise progesterone.

 

[Chub]

Testostrone 38.53 nmol/L

Testosterone (free or unbound)
0.4688 nmol/L (normal)

Vitamin D 123 nmol/L

Free Androgen Index
45.9:1 ratio (normal)

SHBG 84 nmol/L (high)

SHBG super high compared to my tests done a year ago. (53 last time which is still high) Test is higher too it was around 27 nmol/L

 

[Rostam]

You might want to consider lowering your D3 doses.

 

[Chub]

You might want to consider lowering your D3 doses.

From what I've read the sweet spot is 100 to 150nmol/l and has been shown to decrease all-cause mortality. My last test was 142. I normally lower my dose around April for the summer. Hardly see any sun between October and March.

 

[Jstrong20]

The yet guys can probably help get your blood work straight but until then get some raloxefine. It will at least knock the gyno out until you get your hormones straightened out. When I was running trest nolva wasn’t helping. Got some ralox and it knocked it out in no time.

 

[Kronic]

were you on finasteride by chance?

 

[Chub]

were you on finasteride by chance?

no it was just the Ultra Hard cycle last year

 

[Rostam]

From what I've read the sweet spot is 100 to 150nmol/l and has been shown to decrease all-cause mortality. My last test was 142. I normally lower my dose around April for the summer. Hardly see any sun between October and March.

Sorry was reading ng/ml not nmol/l.

 

[scuncknuts]

Stop wasting your money on vitamins and natural crap. The problem you have is that you didn't do a proper pct in the first place. If you ran a normal tamoxafin 20 mg for 5 weeks you would not have this problem now.

If you need to pct or you have gyno you need an ai or a serm. Stop taking vitamins and natural crap and put that money in a Roth IRA.

95% of supplements don't do ****. 100% of TREN gets you fucken shredded

 

[Chub]

That's the Raloxifene came in today and Aromasin. Going to start the Ralox at 60mg for 10 days then 30mg till symptoms subside and lump reduced. Puffiness has went down slightly already but still painful. Hopefully going to keep the run under 6 weeks. Not too keen on running Aromasin if I don't need too. Will get blood work done again after I've ran ralox.

Thinking of tapering ralox at the end at 15mg for a week but also read I don't need to as the half life is so long. any ideas? Also read that gyno just comes back once stopped but that seems to be more for puberty gyno and not after screwing myself up.

 

[Olesatchel]

That's the Raloxifene came in today and Aromasin. Going to start the Ralox at 60mg for 10 days then 30mg till symptoms subside and lump reduced. Puffiness has went down slightly already but still painful. Hopefully going to keep the run under 6 weeks. Not too keen on running Aromasin if I don't need too. Will get blood work done again after I've ran ralox.

Thinking of tapering ralox at the end at 15mg for a week but also read I don't need to as the half life is so long. any ideas? Also read that gyno just comes back once stopped but that seems to be more for puberty gyno and not after screwing myself up.

Are you running Aromasin the entire time along with Ralox? If so what dose? If not when are you starting it and what dose ?

 

[Chub]

Are you running Aromasin the entire time along with Ralox? If so what dose? If not when are you starting it and what dose ?

I started with 60mg Raloxifene for 2 weeks then dropped it to 30mg. Started Aromasin around day 20 as I was still getting pain. Seemed to like it was getting worse. Pain cleared up pretty much over night after starting at 6.25mg E3D.

I've dropped Raloxifene down to 15mg. Might bump the Aromasin to 12.5mg while I taper off Ralox. Getting blood work done tomorrow and will take it from there

 

[Olesatchel]

I started with 60mg Raloxifene for 2 weeks then dropped it to 30mg. Started Aromasin around day 20 as I was still getting pain. Seemed to like it was getting worse. Pain cleared up pretty much over night after starting at 6.25mg E3D.

I've dropped Raloxifene down to 15mg. Might bump the Aromasin to 12.5mg while I taper off Ralox. Getting blood work done tomorrow and will take it from there

if you were to do this cycle again would you take ralox for 60mg only for the first week instead of two? Would you change anything else like start the Aromasin earlier in your cycle? So you did Aromasin every 3 days?
Thanks,

 

[Chub]

if you were to do this cycle again would you take ralox for 60mg only for the first week instead of two? Would you change anything else like start the Aromasin earlier in your cycle? So you did Aromasin every 3 days?
Thanks,

Would of started the Aromasin earlier for sure. Depending how I got on I might of dropped it a bit earlier. Expecting some rebound coming off Raloxifene

 

[Chub]

Yeah every 3 days