Grow legs without squats?
- Thread starter bell1986
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Swindler
Active member
man I thought all I needed was leg press but I just recently started doing squats and deadlifts again after staying away from them for a year and man have my legs took of like something serious...
I just was so stagnant from doing leg press lunges leg extentions and leg curl there was almost a 6 month period of no growth was getting no where... but that was just my experience here in the past year...
I just was so stagnant from doing leg press lunges leg extentions and leg curl there was almost a 6 month period of no growth was getting no where... but that was just my experience here in the past year...
BlockBuilder
Well-known member
The body doesn’t know that you’re doing a squat. It knows resistance and time under tension. Your body doesn’t magically say “omg he’s doing the squat exercise now it’s time to grow!” Lol it does not nor has it ever worked that way. Of course you can sculpt your legs without squats. To what degree is determined by your genetic potential if you’re natural. Also the testosterone and GH release from squats and deadlifts is statistically insignificant. Has absolutely no effect whatsoever on your progress and physique. That myth has been debunked. Want to know a guy who didn’t squat? You may have heard of him. Dorian Yates
bell1986
Well-known member
I know this lol but some exercises have far better emg activity than others. Everyone knows the squat is king for mass *overall* i just dont have a good feel for them i just thought i would ask if other exercises will still progress you as quick
jtmass
Well-known member
The body would definitely know that it needs to work harder during squats because it needs to recruit more muscles to perform squats unlike any other leg exercises. So, yes, squats do help a lot in building good legs.
I do agree on Test and GH release. But, we aren’t talking anabolic hormone stimulation here.
BlockBuilder
Well-known member
How would other muscles being activated make the legs work harder? It wouldn’t. You can get the same degree of leg activation on leg press that you can for a squat. It’s ingrained in people to think squats are some magic exercise because the fitness industry pushes them so hard. The question was are squats NEEDED to grow legs. No they are not.
MrKleen73
Legend
Sure, but the question should be are those enough to keep the legs growing efficiently. The answer is maybe... Add in leg presses too with varied foot positioning and you can grow your legs for sure. Paul Dillette had some VERY impressive legs and he never squatted. I mean he did at first but found the angles and leverages disadvantageous for his body. So he quit squatting all together and built his legs with leg presses...
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I don't think everyone knows that at all. No way the squat is king of overall Mass. You work far more muscle in a deadlift and get the same or greater hormonal release. Also, the highest EMG for the legs quads are the hack squat, not a barbell squat. So sure you could still call that squatting but I am pretty sure he probably meant free weight squatting not back supported squatting in a machine.
The BODY knowing it has to work harder does not mean the target muscles do... Quite often the back is the weak link in the chain and the person can push much harder with a back supported pressing / squatting movement. Also why are we not also talking about anabolic hormone stimulation here? Anabolic hormone stimulation absolutely has a direct effect on leg growth. Any factor that would help him build his legs without squats is going to come into play here.
Agreed!
Some of my best progress came from leg presses combined with deadlifts. Add in adductor work and forget about it.
I think sometimes people get tied up in the EMG stuff. However they tend to forget that EMG stuff is based off of contraction under controlled weight. So lets be realistic here, yeah you are going to get a higher EMG reading off of Squatting 315 than leg pressing 315. Yep, every time all the time. Now lets take the real world and add it into the mix. Do people really think that just because squatting is activating more fibers @ 315lbs than leg pressing does that Leg pressing 700 + lbs for reps is not going to end up crushing the amount of fibers activated from squatting 315??? When it comes to legs, it sure will. Your lower back not so much... However he isn't trying to see if he can build his lower back without squats.
Most importantly though I think the biggest thing that fall of regarding development when squats are out of the picture is adductor size. If you are going to take squats out then you should definitely be using the adductor machine and use it to grow damn it! None of that mambi pambi 25 reps going through the motions crap I see guys doing... You should be working them hard in the strength, hypertrophy, and pump ranges to get those suckers inflated. They will make up a huge portion of your overall leg size when they are trained correctly!
btothefman
New member
Try going for volume on leg press, extensions, calf raises etc, it worked for me have never grown my legs like I have with volume (at about a third of the weight)and supersede.
There's a leg program by The Rock (Dwayne J) give it a go and I'd be surprised if you can finish it without feeling physically sick.
Also try German Volume Training, less exercises but again a lot of volume.
I still do squats but if I'm short of gym days I'll choose a volume day over legs day with squats 100% of the time.
There's a leg program by The Rock (Dwayne J) give it a go and I'd be surprised if you can finish it without feeling physically sick.
Also try German Volume Training, less exercises but again a lot of volume.
I still do squats but if I'm short of gym days I'll choose a volume day over legs day with squats 100% of the time.
bell1986
Well-known member
Cheers guys a appreciate the comments.
See i was a skateboarder for years and my legs are in great shape and my quads & calves are one of my best body parts. But i still want to keep them muscular and still progress with them. I just dont like squats at all for some reason but i do train legs 2x per week.
I will have a look at that program. Cheers
See i was a skateboarder for years and my legs are in great shape and my quads & calves are one of my best body parts. But i still want to keep them muscular and still progress with them. I just dont like squats at all for some reason but i do train legs 2x per week.
I will have a look at that program. Cheers
R1balla
Board Sponsor
Long story short, my back issues and hip alignment issues don’t allow me to squat (heavy). Instead, I do half rep constant time under tension squats to start my leg day. I also find these more pleasing and not as “ugh, I have to squat today). Kettle bell squats are good also. My favorite is reverse hack squats on the machine.
To answer your question, you can achieve leg growth without squats. There are various ways to do this. Everybody is different but what I like to do is a lot of super sets, circuits and drop sets.
To answer your question, you can achieve leg growth without squats. There are various ways to do this. Everybody is different but what I like to do is a lot of super sets, circuits and drop sets.
kisaj
Legend
I know my calves were partially built from so many years of skating and so are most of the guys I used to skate with.
R1balla
Board Sponsor
The one exercise for calves that have promoted the most growth for me are donkey raises.
bell1986
Well-known member
Yeh my calves are the same. One is slightly larger due to my stance on the board. I always popped off my right foot so that calve is larger lol i still train both but put a couple more sets into the left one as it will eventually catch up. Everyone comments on my legs so just shows that you can get them in good shape without resistance training.
R1balla
Board Sponsor
Agreed!
bell1986
Well-known member
Thanks man a will incorporate this 2x a week ??
R1balla
Board Sponsor
Thanks man a will incorporate this 2x a week
Speaking of twice a week, I am a firm believer in hitting legs twice a week. I have a somewhat weird work schedule so this is a basic rundown of my routine without being too lengthy. It’s divided into two weeks.
First week I can only do 3-4 sessions a week. So I typically do the “bro” split but I add heavy compound lifts, drop/super sets.
For my second week, I have shorter sessions but I hit chest and back together while doing everything twice a week except for arms. Chest/back, legs, arms, chest/back then finish the weekend with legs. I love it because it changes weekly for me and I don’t get burnt out.
ericos_bob
Active member
I can see people overtraining without a deload in that protocol
MrKleen73
Legend
Sometimes within just a couple weeks too it is pretty intense. I mean c'mon, following jdk with the dng is just way to intense of a finisher for most and definitely not a beginners program!!!!
ericos_bob
Active member
Brilliant idea Kisaj. That deload strategy should work nicely. jdklolololdng it is. Will be getting a log up on this. cheers guys
Nspire
New member
This is good info for a newbie like me. I had hip surgery last summer and now stepping back in the gym seriously and last week called my old rehab trainer and he told me not to let being limited doing squats discourage me because as you pointed out, resistance is key so great to hear someone else say what he did. I am not wanting huge quads just better than I have now but knew squats are not going to be what I can go hard on. Leg presses etc. he has taught me safely to do but I do not trust myself w squats with heavy weights just yet. Thanks for this info.
btothefman
New member
The Rock has an insane leg routine, has hack squats but no squats. It hurts and burns and makes you feel sick but **** your legs respond.
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
Should you squat? Maybe. Do you have to? Of course not. There are always alternatives.
paul56778
Well-known member
I love front squats, i never ever back squat though, i think i back squatted free bar once in the past 5 years and once on the smith machine near winter, i find back squats allow for more weight to be used but do not compare to the quad focus you get from front squatting, i feel i could get away with just varied leg press, hack squats, machine assisted squats, leg extensions and leg curls for complete upper thigh development along with the thigh adductor machine to target inner upper thigh which i feel cannot be isolated with any other exercise. If i recall, Dorian Yates stopped squatting quite early in his career and built Olympia Class legs with just leg press and hack squats as the main mass builders. I feel once the foundation of legs has been built from squatting you can switch over to leg press and hack squats to isolate the muscles.
paul56778
Well-known member
Do you also perform unilateral leg press, i find this works well to allow for more strength to be gained and balance out any weakness on other side.
doogans
Active member
I've actually been incorporating that into my routine but admittedly not as much as I should. My left quad is lagging behind a bit so I'm going to force myself to strip some weight off the leg press and go unilateral at least once a week. It's nice loading up a bunch of plates but I think you're right, focusing on each leg individually has its benefits.
Outofbody
Well-known member
I love low bar, slightly wide stanced, toes out, deep squats. Hits my hammies and glutes HARD. There's no other possible way I can load my glutes/hammies as much as I can like this. I tend to mix up bar position a bit during a squat session, but I find it really odd how people here are only talking about quad development when squatting. Heavy squatting hits the whole body, and if done right, will blow up your glutes and hammies too and really hit your core hard.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Can you build legs without doing (insert any specific exercise here including squat)?
Sure, why not. I mean, really, for quads, some people like Elliot Hulse believe that leg extensions actually build size much faster than squatting.
And there are some legit reasons not to squat. Not everyone is suited for every exercise.
But the question is, "Honestly, why is it that you 'can't' squat?" - if it is just discomfort, pain from the movement that isn't legitimate spine/bone/tissue damage or the like - you should probably ask yourself this question:
"Why are you lifting weights?"
In all reality - maybe getting big, or getting strong is your answer and it goes no further - but lifting weights should be something that improves your health and quality of life. There are really very few exercises that will do this like the squat and the deadlift.
I personally agree with MrKleen73 (I hate typing that - it makes my finger tips burn) about the deadlift. I think the deadlift actually is the superior exercise, for most people to the squat. Why? Because it is THE exercise that translates to REAL LIFE more than any other exercise. How often do you have to pick up something heavy? Oh yeah, all the time. How many people hurt themselves doing this? Lots. Being good at this can almost literally SAVE YOUR LIFE.
The next exercise, close second, I would say is squats. It's just a great exercise for many reasons beyond "getting bigger" or "stronger". Like the deadlift, one thing that is often overlooked is the fact that doing these exercises actually requires a significant degree of cardiovascular output. Activating all those muscles and supplying them with oxygen is taxing on the entire system. Leg presses and bench presses can be too - but nothing is really the same as the deadlift or squat.
And that gets too it. If you are just training for size or whatever - then do whatever. You don't need squats or any other exercise. If you want total functionality - I think you should reconsider.
Of course, if you're in a situation like The Rock (mentioned above) - then training specificity comes into play there too. He needs to look big and strong and be able to function as if he's big and strong. So he probably doesn't squat or dead lift heavy to avoid that down time. And that's also smart in his case.
Sure, why not. I mean, really, for quads, some people like Elliot Hulse believe that leg extensions actually build size much faster than squatting.
And there are some legit reasons not to squat. Not everyone is suited for every exercise.
But the question is, "Honestly, why is it that you 'can't' squat?" - if it is just discomfort, pain from the movement that isn't legitimate spine/bone/tissue damage or the like - you should probably ask yourself this question:
"Why are you lifting weights?"
In all reality - maybe getting big, or getting strong is your answer and it goes no further - but lifting weights should be something that improves your health and quality of life. There are really very few exercises that will do this like the squat and the deadlift.
I personally agree with MrKleen73 (I hate typing that - it makes my finger tips burn) about the deadlift. I think the deadlift actually is the superior exercise, for most people to the squat. Why? Because it is THE exercise that translates to REAL LIFE more than any other exercise. How often do you have to pick up something heavy? Oh yeah, all the time. How many people hurt themselves doing this? Lots. Being good at this can almost literally SAVE YOUR LIFE.
The next exercise, close second, I would say is squats. It's just a great exercise for many reasons beyond "getting bigger" or "stronger". Like the deadlift, one thing that is often overlooked is the fact that doing these exercises actually requires a significant degree of cardiovascular output. Activating all those muscles and supplying them with oxygen is taxing on the entire system. Leg presses and bench presses can be too - but nothing is really the same as the deadlift or squat.
And that gets too it. If you are just training for size or whatever - then do whatever. You don't need squats or any other exercise. If you want total functionality - I think you should reconsider.
Of course, if you're in a situation like The Rock (mentioned above) - then training specificity comes into play there too. He needs to look big and strong and be able to function as if he's big and strong. So he probably doesn't squat or dead lift heavy to avoid that down time. And that's also smart in his case.
ericos_bob
Active member
Some excellent points made particularly on the cardiovascular output required for squats and deadlifts. It is definitely a significant deterrent for some but ofcourse fantastic for conditioning and I admit after a heavy set of breathing squats I consider leg extensions, leg presses and the plethora of alternate leg training exercises as wind down finishers. I think of them as "filler" exercises with squats as the foundation.
MrKleen73
Legend
I had a good laugh at the bolded! Otherwise if squats don't seem to work well for someone I really think that Goblet Squats can be the answer. It forces you into a good position and stimulates the core, hips quads, and posterior chain while helping with thoracic mobility. I think Goblet squats are good for people who can't go too heavy on squats for whatever reason, plus they are a great lead into front squats as well.
The bottom line though is that any exercise you are capable of pushing progressive overload on with appropriate volume is going to make whatever muscle is being trained grow so long as nutrient needs are met.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
I knew you would
Truth is, we're actually too similar...and I just love fighting with you. It's like being married to someone. I get the feeling if I said the sun was yellow you would say it's orange. And I KNOW I would say the sky is green if you asked.
MrKleen73
Legend
Once I changed to predominantly olympic squats my quads got more out of it but it is still posterior chain dominant for me as well. I have been having good luck recently with Sissy Leg Presses for quads. You put the balls of your feet down at the bottom of the platform like you are going to do calves then do leg presses instead, it feels almost exactly like a sissy squat just easier to load and no balance required.
MrKleen73
Legend
I knew you would
Truth is, we're actually too similar...and I just love fighting with you. It's like being married to someone. I get the feeling if I said the sun was yellow you would say it's orange. And I KNOW I would say the sky is green if you asked.
Actually the sky is colorless but the reflective matter in the atmosphere appears to be blue due to the reflection of the water. PPPPLLLLBBBBTTTT!!!!
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Oh man. Proving my point. It is blue because of a phenomenon known as "scattering". Nothing to do with the ocean.
MrKleen73
Legend
Sweet! I had to go look that up. Learned something new today. I am pretty sure that was what I was taught back in school. Even when I typed it I was thinking there is probably more to it and I am about to hear it. LOL
Go figure, It will probably surprise you, but I honestly only have a 9th grade education and a GED. I went to a computer vocational school later in life when it was time to get my crap together. However I was on the road to nowhere my first 24 years on this world... I am relatively useless to my daughter now in school since she is in 9th now and I never made it out of 9th. I quit school 3-4 times before it stuck and I went to get my GED. My ADHD and upbringing made school impossible for me.
Honestly thinking about going back to do remedial college classes to catch up so I can help Trinity with her stuff when she gets there...
MrKleen73
Legend
Interesting, and apparently the water also refracts the blue light more than the other colors which is why the ocean looks blue too. Cool!
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Haha, I just got a real kick that I had to argue even when we were joking about arguing.
As far as school - it can be very over rated. First and foremost, there is a difference between being intelligent and being educated. There are a ton of subjects that I am not educated on. It has nothing to do with my abilities or intelligence.
Second, I got a college degree with a 3.2 GPA, which is nothing to write home about. I did this, however, without ever reading a single book in my entire life before I graduated from college. Literally.
Sure, I would read parts. I actually even had an entire class in college based on a single poli-sci book and I read 3/4 And told the professor I was done reading it because I was a junior and I had never read a book to that point and I wasn't going to blow my streak.
I did start reading, A LOT, after college and grew a lot at that point. But school didn't help me as much as my self direction did. I also had some very smart friends and influences in my life that taught me how to look at problems and fix them.
School has its place, but knowledge is free to everyone and there are no true secrets. The truth can be discovered by anyone.
And in that light, I think Trinity has a better shot with you as a father teaching her that knowing isn't always important.
As far as going back to school, I often think about that myself. I've had so many people tell me I should have been a doctor that I often wonder if I could get through med school at this point without opening a text book
if someone rich would make that bet with me I would take it haha.There is also YouTube and Kahn Academy, which I have learned some things from...it can be hard..but you can see and learn about some subjects you would never even look at otherwise.