Great Vitamin C Presentation

ValiantThor08

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What's the takeaway, or hypothesis here. This is a two hour video lol
It is well worth the long watch. The takeaway is the C can make viruses inert, can neutralize toxins, has thousands of studies that reveal how good C is, mega dosing C orally and mega dosing C through an IV. How the medical establishment does not want C to enable someone to survive what the establishment regards as a death sentence.
 
jswain34

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How the medical establishment does not want C to enable someone to survive what the establishment regards as a death sentence.
This is just pure bullshit. A quick google search had a literature review on vit C as the first result. The whole thing is full of the authors acknowledging potential medical uses for vitamin C in acute conditions.

Excerpt: “At present, multiple ongoing randomized controlled trials, including the VICTAS, ACTS, and HYVCTTSSS trials, are aimed at confirming the beneficial effects of vitamin C and adjuncts in critically ill patients with sepsis[81-83].” And that’s just one of the multiple examples given.

The “medical establishment” gives thiamine to damn near every person who could even be remotely considered an alcoholic in order to prevent warnecke-korsakoff. This is vitamin b1. Theres no aversion to giving a vitamin if it has been demonstrated to leas to positive outcomes. Do I acknowledge that big pharma very likely has too much of a role in medical practice? Absolutely. But this whole false narrative that you are spreading on behalf of this guy is completely irresponsible. Here’s the full text if you need more examples of the medical establishment turning a blind eye to a potential adjunct to life saving treatment.


First sentence from the conclusion: “Vitamin C is once again a focus of intense interest with respect to its role in the treatment of critically ill patients.”
 
ValiantThor08

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This is just pure bullshit. A quick google search had a literature review on vit C as the first result. The whole thing is full of the authors acknowledging potential medical uses for vitamin C in acute conditions.

Excerpt: “At present, multiple ongoing randomized controlled trials, including the VICTAS, ACTS, and HYVCTTSSS trials, are aimed at confirming the beneficial effects of vitamin C and adjuncts in critically ill patients with sepsis[81-83].” And that’s just one of the multiple examples given.

The “medical establishment” gives thiamine to damn near every person who could even be remotely considered an alcoholic in order to prevent warnecke-korsakoff. This is vitamin b1. Theres no aversion to giving a vitamin if it has been demonstrated to leas to positive outcomes. Do I acknowledge that big pharma very likely has too much of a role in medical practice? Absolutely. But this whole false narrative that you are spreading on behalf of this guy is completely irresponsible. Here’s the full text if you need more examples of the medical establishment turning a blind eye to a potential adjunct to life saving treatment.


First sentence from the conclusion: “Vitamin C is once again a focus of intense interest with respect to its role in the treatment of critically ill patients.”
The evidence that C is overlooked is in the patients that could of received an IV treatment of C, but did not. I have little confidence in the general medical field, as do many others that are more intelligent than me. I do acknowledge there are doctors and surgeons however that are not ignorant and/or arrogant, but they in my opinion are not the majority. Watch the presentation first before establishing a conclusion. And let's take it easy :)
 
jswain34

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Well, I wrote a response to this but it got deleted when i went to quote your post so here were some of the points.

The evidence that C is overlooked is in the patients that could of received an IV treatment of C, but did not.
This isnt what you said initially though, is it? You made it seem the medical community was consciously withholding a therapy because they didnt want to use a vitamin to improve survival in someone who was trying to survive “what the establishment regards as a death wish”.

I wont take it easy when you’re attempting to spread blatant lies.

You have an obvious confirmation bias in this as i just presented you with a ton of factual data and youre doubling down on your “i dont think people in medicine have human’s best interest at heart” bs. Believe what you want, but dont propagate the unnecessary distrust that has become popular and “cool” to have towards the medical community.

Your opinion really doesnt matter as long as you dont act irresponsibly with it.

I wont watch the presentation when you just told us that one of the made points made in it has already been shown to be completely false. There are much better ways to spend my time like reading factual evidence like i presented to you vs whatever some guy is spewing from his mouth that is probably riddled with more bs. Unless you just completely took his words and reframed them to fit your beliefs that may or may not be based in any realm of reality or on any factual evidence.
 
ValiantThor08

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Well, I wrote a response to this but it got deleted when i went to quote your post so here were some of the points.



This isnt what you said initially though, is it? You made it seem the medical community was consciously withholding a therapy because they didnt want to use a vitamin to improve survival in someone who was trying to survive “what the establishment regards as a death wish”.

I wont take it easy when you’re attempting to spread blatant lies.

You have an obvious confirmation bias in this as i just presented you with a ton of factual data and youre doubling down on your “i dont think people in medicine have human’s best interest at heart” bs. Believe what you want, but dont propagate the unnecessary distrust that has become popular and “cool” to have towards the medical community.

Your opinion really doesnt matter as long as you dont act irresponsibly with it.

I wont watch the presentation when you just told us that one of the made points made in it has already been shown to be completely false. There are much better ways to spend my time like reading factual evidence like i presented to you vs whatever some guy is spewing from his mouth that is probably riddled with more bs. Unless you just completely took his words and reframed them to fit your beliefs that may or may not be based in any realm of reality or on any factual evidence.
Thanks for your information. I was pretty black and white on my original reply. Not everyone in the medical community is an arrogant individual that is truly heartless. Some are, such is humanity. Ignorance would be a better word for the majority; just not knowing the possibilities of certain drugs/supplements. And I do have a bit of confirmation bias built on anecdotes. Being honest. I have known people personally, including my grandmother, that could of benefited from IV C therapy, but it was not offered. I assume out of ignorance, for the most part; however, sometimes people are malicious, and a true story of malicious intent was provided in the presentation. That isn't everyone though, and probably not even most people. Forgive me for painting a broad brush. My feels can get in the way.
 
jswain34

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Thanks for your information. I was pretty black and white on my original reply. Not everyone in the medical community is an arrogant individual that is truly heartless. Some are, such is humanity. Ignorance would be a better word for the majority; just not knowing the possibilities of certain drugs/supplements. And I do have a bit of confirmation bias built on anecdotes. Being honest. I have known people personally, including my grandmother, that could of benefited from IV C therapy, but it was not offered. I assume out of ignorance, for the most part; however, sometimes people are malicious, and a true story of malicious intent was provided in the presentation. That isn't everyone though, and probably not even most people. Forgive me for painting a broad brush. My feels can get in the way.
First, sorry for what happened to your grandmother. Death is an unfortunate part of life (im not saying that with any malicious intent, just the truth) and unfortunately when emotions are high we have a way of coping with things that may not give us the best recollection of how things actually went down. While I hear you on the potential benefit vit c may have played in your loved one’s course of care, if there isn’t a strong literature base supporting a therapy there is really know way to expect medical providers to consider using that therapy in the course of treatment in a critically ill individual. Hell, i think medicine has come a long way from using potions of 100+ ingredients (some of which were actually poisonous) in an attempt to heal someone.

To your next point, there are definitely providers out there who abuse their power. As you mentioned though this is absolutely the exception and not the vast vast majority of providers. I can promise you that the 99.99% of people in medicine arent in the business of intentionally withholding helpful treatments that they know will help.
 
HIT4ME

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So, I have been a big time fan of vitamin C for almost 2 decades at this point. Personally, not scientifically, I swear I do become much more resilient to colds, etc. while I am on it. With 2 exceptions, every cold I have had over the past 20 years has come on when I was on a break from vitamin C. One of the 2 colds I did get on vitamin C went away in less than 2 days and this was a cold that kept everyone at work and in my family sick for 2 weeks and in bed for a week. Still, far from proof. And I acknowledge it sounds like quackery even when I say it.

I have always found it interesting that the most often sited study claiming it does not help reduce cold/flu incidence, actually did find that in highly stressed soldiers - it did in fact improve outcomes. So, it works if you are really (unusually) stressed - but it doesn't work? This always leaves me scratching my head. For $30 for a KG of powder, I just put a 5 gram scoop in a gallon of water/crystal light every day and drink it.

Having said that - one of the sepsis trials recently concluded and it did not find any improvement in outcomes with the proposed Vitamin C/Prednisone treatment that has been proposed. Maybe more studies will show something different and it's too bad. It would be nice if something so simple were at least somewhat effective.

While I agree that most doctors are limited in their knowledge of nutrition, exercise, and natural substances - you have to keep in mind that they are governed by some strict rules with (rightfully) harsh consequences if they go outside of the box and something goes wrong. A lot of their job is just basically following rules. I don't think they are withholding any miracle cure, and I don't necessarily fault them for being skeptical in some situations.

I also think that Vitamin C is healthy and under rated - but I think the expectations have to be reasonable. It isn't a cure for anything accept scurvy as far as we know today. Long-term use, I believe, may help avoid some health issues though - just like being in shape and eating broccoli may help improve your health as well. And being someone who actually has an appreciation for Vitamin C, I am measured in the claims I try to put forward. There is enough craziness out there already and when people see some of it, it causes them to think it is all insane and they may miss some of the benefits.
 
ValiantThor08

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First, sorry for what happened to your grandmother. Death is an unfortunate part of life (im not saying that with any malicious intent, just the truth) and unfortunately when emotions are high we have a way of coping with things that may not give us the best recollection of how things actually went down. While I hear you on the potential benefit vit c may have played in your loved one’s course of care, if there isn’t a strong literature base supporting a therapy there is really know way to expect medical providers to consider using that therapy in the course of treatment in a critically ill individual. Hell, i think medicine has come a long way from using potions of 100+ ingredients (some of which were actually poisonous) in an attempt to heal someone.

To your next point, there are definitely providers out there who abuse their power. As you mentioned though this is absolutely the exception and not the vast vast majority of providers. I can promise you that the 99.99% of people in medicine arent in the business of intentionally withholding helpful treatments that they know will help.
Thank you! She underwent hernia surgery and due to surgeon mistake, get esophagus was slashed, her vagal nerve damaged, cepsis, went through the works. She survived through a lot of prayer and her daughter fighting for her to receive the best care. C is studied to be beneficial for those under cepsis and have nerve damage. I recommended my mother speak to the doctors about an IV treatment because Vitamin C is cheap, and safe. In my opinion the doctors should of known about the treatment because of how cheap and safe vitamin C is; that is where I use the term ignorance, and in her scenario I don't think they were intending malice.
 
ValiantThor08

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So, I have been a big time fan of vitamin C for almost 2 decades at this point. Personally, not scientifically, I swear I do become much more resilient to colds, etc. while I am on it. With 2 exceptions, every cold I have had over the past 20 years has come on when I was on a break from vitamin C. One of the 2 colds I did get on vitamin C went away in less than 2 days and this was a cold that kept everyone at work and in my family sick for 2 weeks and in bed for a week. Still, far from proof. And I acknowledge it sounds like quackery even when I say it.

I have always found it interesting that the most often sited study claiming it does not help reduce cold/flu incidence, actually did find that in highly stressed soldiers - it did in fact improve outcomes. So, it works if you are really (unusually) stressed - but it doesn't work? This always leaves me scratching my head. For $30 for a KG of powder, I just put a 5 gram scoop in a gallon of water/crystal light every day and drink it.

Having said that - one of the sepsis trials recently concluded and it did not find any improvement in outcomes with the proposed Vitamin C/Prednisone treatment that has been proposed. Maybe more studies will show something different and it's too bad. It would be nice if something so simple were at least somewhat effective.

While I agree that most doctors are limited in their knowledge of nutrition, exercise, and natural substances - you have to keep in mind that they are governed by some strict rules with (rightfully) harsh consequences if they go outside of the box and something goes wrong. A lot of their job is just basically following rules. I don't think they are withholding any miracle cure, and I don't necessarily fault them for being skeptical in some situations.

I also think that Vitamin C is healthy and under rated - but I think the expectations have to be reasonable. It isn't a cure for anything accept scurvy as far as we know today. Long-term use, I believe, may help avoid some health issues though - just like being in shape and eating broccoli may help improve your health as well. And being someone who actually has an appreciation for Vitamin C, I am measured in the claims I try to put forward. There is enough craziness out there already and when people see some of it, it causes them to think it is all insane and they may miss some of the benefits.
Few days ago I felt like death. Started 3g ascorbic acid every 20min until bowel tolerance. Next day I felt worlds better. C is definitely underrated.
 

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