Got Bloods back - Low Test - Help Please

[M.I.D]

Hey Guys,

Please can someone look at my bloods and give advice - I dont have results before cycle im afraid... I ran a small cycle of XI-KT, Epiandro and 4 Andro... did a 6 week PCT with Viron, Rebirth(BLRs Serm) & Prolactrone

Obviously im out of range on the SHBG and Testosterone - help please

D.H.E.A. Sulphate 3.8 umol/L 0.44 - 13.4

FOLLICLE STIM. HORMONE 6.2 IU/L 1.5 - 12.4

LUTEINISING HORMONE 5.4 IU/L 1.7 - 8.6

TESTOSTERONE * 5.0 nmol/L 7.6 - 31.4

SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOB * 10 nmol/L 16 - 55

Testosterone/SHBG Ratio 50.0 24 - 104

17-Beta OESTRADIOL 53 pmol/L < 192

 

[demonfox]

In for the knowledge

 

[drummy]

It's hard to know without baseline results. How do you feel? Mood? Libido, energy levels etc.
I personally would've run an actual serm instead of that OTC stuff rebirth

 

[M.I.D]

Libido is generally ok but sexual function is poor. Cannot keep erections

 

[IronAddiction]

Clomid

 

[warbird01]

I would blast some HCG, run clomid/nolva, and DAA for 8 weeks.

 

[M.I.D]

No access to hcg

 

[M.I.D]

This was taken 2 weeks after finishing pct. I would've thought pct would've raised my test more than that tho

 

[IronAddiction]

clomid +daa on blast

 

[IronAddiction]

This was taken 2 weeks after finishing pct. I would've thought pct would've raised my test more than that tho

one would think, however, not everyone responds to everything unfortunately, could just be a roll of the dice.

 

[ZackD89]

There was an interesting post yesterday (I think) in DMA's RAD-140 log about running Tongkat Ali (Viron) during PCT. The poster said that, since it lowers SHBG, it signals to the body that there is sufficient free testosterone and prematurely ceases raising total testosterone levels. So, maybe the Viron during PCT is what caused your low total test and low SHBG, but normal free test.

Clomid seems like the way to go. Then run Viron or LJ 100 after the Clomid period.

 

[zman86]

No serm no cycle. In b4 BLR rep comes in trying to defend rebirth.

3-4 weeks of Clomid should bring you back up. 50/50/50/25 or 100/50/50

 

[M.I.D]

There was an interesting post yesterday (I think) in DMA's RAD-140 log about running Tongkat Ali (Viron) during PCT. The poster said that, since it lowers SHBG, it signals to the body that there is sufficient free testosterone and prematurely ceases raising total testosterone levels. So, maybe the Viron during PCT is what caused your low total test and low SHBG, but normal free test.

Clomid seems like the way to go. Then run Viron or LJ 100 after the Clomid period.

If it lowers SHBG and infact test then why should I run it at all??

What is LJ100??
brundel can you chime in?

 

[IronAddiction]

long jack/eurycoma longifolia

 

[M.I.D]

No serm no cycle. In b4 BLR rep comes in trying to defend rebirth.

3-4 weeks of Clomid should bring you back up. 50/50/50/25 or 100/50/50

I have run clomid or nolva for my stronger cycles but as this was weaker and I have read good reviews on rebirth I gave it ago.

 

[M.I.D]

So If I have low SHBG then that is not a bad thing coz I have more free test???

 

[ZackD89]

If it lowers SHBG and infact test then why should I run it at all??

What is LJ100??

brundel can you chime in?

LJ100 is another Longjack/Tongkat Ali product.

Tongkat lowers SHBG, which in turn creates more free testosterone. So, if you run it during PCT, it could possibly send feedback to your body that there is enough free testosterone and limit its production. However, if you run Tongkat after PCT, once your total testosterone has been normalized, it will lower your SHBG and free up more of your already-normalized total testosterone.

I'm going to quote from the post that made me consider this--it explains it better than I do. Props to MrKleen73.

Save the LJ100 for after PCT, it frees up testosterone, which will make you feel great during PCT but actually tells the body you have enough test prematurely. With an SHGB binding supplement your free testosterone is much higher even when serum totals are low. You could get your free test up to 15-20 while total is only like 400. Your body uses the free test for the negative feedback loop. So it being high due to lowered SHGB means your body thinks 400 total is recovered because your free test is at a normal level. Not what you want to have during PCT. You want total levels to climb as high as possible on their own without doing anything that could limit that. Then when your levels are back up 500-700 run the LJ100 and your free test levels will be beast mode!!!!

original thread: anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/271246-rad-sponsored-log-23.html

 

[M.I.D]

So running the Tongkat etc once you are recovered and have high test will not in turn reduce your test? it will just leave it at the level you got to and increase your free test???

 

[ZackD89]

So running the Tongkat etc once you are recovered and have high test will not in turn reduce your test? it will just leave it at the level you got to and increase your free test???

Right, exactly.

The effects of tongkat ali in restoring normal testosterone levels appears to be less due to actually “stimulating” testosterone synthesis, but rather by increasing the release rate of “free” testosterone from its binding hormone, sex-hormone-binding-globulin (SHBG). In this way, eurycoma may be considered not so much a testosterone “booster” (such as an anabolic steroid), but rather a “maintainer” of normal testosterone levels and a “restorer” of normal testosterone levels (from “low” back “up” to normal ranges). This would make eurycoma particularly beneficial for individuals with sub-normal testosterone levels, including those who are dieting for weight loss, middle-aged individuals suffering with fatigue or depression, and intensely training athletes who may be at risk for overtraining.

Source: jissn.com/content/10/1/28

 

[M.I.D]

Right i get you, so i possibly need to run some clomid or just wait it out???

I am seeing the docs on tuesday but he doesnt know about my cycles, what should i tell him?

 

[yates84]

I'm with IronAddiction on the clomid restart protocol. This is why I scream constantly about using clomid in pct no matter the compound

 

[M.I.D]

I'm with IronAddiction on the clomid restart protocol. This is why I scream constantly about using clomid in pct no matter the compound

And running a clomid pct for 4 weeks would have no other negative effect? on any of the other levels?

 

[yates84]

And running a clomid pct for 4 weeks would have no other negative effect? on any of the other levels?

It will raise estrogen so an ai is a good idea. Run clomid for 4 weeks at 50/50/25/25 with just armistane at 75mg and then get your bloods done again, there should be an improvement

 

[M.I.D]

It will raise estrogen so an ai is a good idea. Run clomid for 4 weeks at 50/50/25/25 with just armistane at 75mg and then get your bloods done again, there should be an improvement

Isn't there difference of opinion whether running an AI in pct is beneficial??
it wont effect LH/FSH??? possibly raise?

 

[yates84]

Isn't there difference of opinion whether running an AI in pct is beneficial??
it wont effect LH/FSH??? possibly raise?

This is what I've found: you want estrogen to be a little lower than normal when coming off of clomid. Low estrogen tells the body to make more test so it can be aromatized into estrogen. If your estrogen is too high coming off the clomid then you will not get this response. I try to let my estrogen be as high as possible On cycle then crush it during pct

 

[M.I.D]

This is what I've found: you want estrogen to be a little lower than normal when coming off of clomid. Low estrogen tells the body to make more test so it can be aromatized into estrogen. If your estrogen is too high coming off the clomid then you will not get this response. I try to let my estrogen be as high as possible On cycle then crush it during pct

Sounds legit

 

[gynopuff]

clomid +daa on blast

You would most def need an ai for daa/clomid (both cause estrogen to rise) which will cause sexual function to be worse when you get off.

 

[M.I.D]

I will not take daa it's pointless

 

[M.I.D]

So if I have more free T then why do I have trouble getting nd keeping it up

 

[vujade]

This was taken 2 weeks after finishing pct. I would've thought pct would've raised my test more than that tho

M.I.D...its too bad you didn't take blood work before you cycle started to see what your baseline numbers
were at. This wouldve given you more of a complete picture to see whether your PCT was a success or
whether it failed. There's no way of knowing without the pre and post bloodwork.

In b4 BLR rep comes in trying to defend rebirth.

Thx for mentioning us. Appreciate the love my man...!!! No need to defend the product. It stands on its own.
I can't say whether it worked or didn't work, nor can you, nor can the OP. Because we have nothing to compare
it to, to see where baseline was, and post bloods were, to see how effective or ineffective it really was.

I've seen many people who use a SERM and post up blood work telling us their PCT Failed. Most of the time
they have no pre blood work done, to know where they started at. They could've already had low test levels
from years of abuse, or just because their bodies were pre-dispositioned to having low T eventually because
of genetics, and they only found out after finally getting blood work after their PCT was over.
brundel
halfhuman
kisaj
Jebrook

 

[M.I.D]

Totally appreciate there was no pre bloods to compare too. Main concern is I am out of line etc... Hard to say, I know

 

[wicked442]

So if I have more free T then why do I have trouble getting nd keeping it up

I believe your performance issues are because of low sbgh caused by the ph you ran. I had the same problem when I ran a short cycle. My total and free test was well within range. My estro was on the low end also. The only thing out of normal was sbgh. Im on trt so I just rode it out and let the ph leave my system. 2 months later bw came back with all levels good. This tells me that a low sbgh will definitely cause sexual performance issues. Just my .02

 

[M.I.D]

Thanks for the reply. I don't know much about bloods but I would've thought dif to that with it increasing free test... Seems like you were in similar situation to me

 

[wicked442]

Thanks for the reply. I don't know much about bloods but I would've thought dif to that with it increasing free test... Seems like you were in similar situation to me

Yep. Same issues. This tells me that it is possible to have good total test and free test from the trt but have low sbgh caused directly by ph/ds use and have all the symptoms as well. This has me questioning how I am going to fix this during my next cycle.

 

[M.I.D]

Yep. Same issues. This tells me that it is possible to have good total test and free test from the trt but have low sbgh caused directly by ph/ds use and have all the symptoms as well. This has me questioning how I am going to fix this during my next cycle.

Any ideas what I need to tell my doc about bloods? Can't mention steroids

 

[NattyForLife]

Tell him the truth! If he is a good doctor, he will direct help you.

 

[wicked442]

Any ideas what I need to tell my doc about bloods? Can't mention steroids

Either truth if he is cool or just withhold information. Dr with prob do more blood tests to check for metabolic syndrome. Buy some time and get off the gear. A few months later tell him you changed your diet blah blah blah and get new bw. Just a bump in the road. Or just tell him the truth. Maybe he will work with you. Wont know till you take that gamble.

 

[bigead]

May just take time as well. With normal lh n fh you may be primary hypogona