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Glutamine and BCAA's

chaos92287

Member
im cutting right now so im doing cardio every morning. usually run 2 miles and then wait 30 minutes (to make sure i burn all the fat i can) to eat breakfast. i take l-glutamine and bcaa's pre and post workout to help ensure i lose the least muscle possible. i figured i would also take it during the mornings as well. my question is when would the best time to take it be? before i run, during, or after?
 
I wouldn't recommend anymore glutamine in the future. You can finish taking what you have, but from what I remember you need something crazy like 25g for it to be as effective as people want. As far as the BCAA's I'd suggest before, during, and after ;) If you can mix it into a gallon of water or jug and sip on it all the time it will constantly feed your body with the AA's necessary. Very good choice using BCAA's during a cut, they're a great anti-catabolic supplement.
 
BCAA site BCAA's are what the body uses to make
Glutamine, which is the most abundant amino acid in the formation of
muscle tissue. In fact, Glutamine comprises over 97% of new muscle
cell growth. In other words, you can eat protein all day long but
it's only the Glutamine that will ultimately grow more muscle. By
now you may be wondering; "Why not just take Glutamine?" Well,
that's exactly what most companies thought too, (or more accurately,
that's what they wanted you to think). It's the reason Glutamine
went on to became a very popular supplement. There's just one problem:The body cannot absorb orally ingested Glutamine!!!
 
Glutamine
Destroying the Dogma, Part 1
by David J. Barr


One of the most frequent supplement questions I get as a strength coach is whether or not athletes should use the amino acid glutamine for either performance enhancement or size gains.

The topic comes up so much that it almost seems as though glutamine is a "no brainer" supplement just like creatine. In fact, its popularity is such that at least two separate online message boards, as well as numerous magazines, have feature articles on the use of glutamine as a supplement. The dogma of glutamine supplementation had even permeated the SWIS symposium to the extent that the numerous conversations about this amino acid were solely about how much to take, rather than whether or not to take it.

So, it seems as though everything is pretty cut and dried when it comes to glutamine use… or is it? While there was some literature-supported speculation as to the potential benefits of glutamine supplementation, there needs to be an updated review of the literature examining the current status of this purported "wonder supplement." In fact, there's quite a bit of information that's been left out of the popular bodybuilding literature that needs to be brought to light.

But before we get on to that, we should review some of the basics of glutamine.


Glutamine: The Basics

For those of you who are new to the concept of glutamine supplementation, you should know that it's a non-essential amino acid created largely by our muscles. It's also noteworthy that glutamine is the most abundant free amino acid in our bodies, comprising up to 2/3 of the muscle free amino acid pool.(13) This fact, coupled with the idea that muscle is the largest producer of this amino acid, could suggest that supplementation would be beneficial.

One potential problem with this is that glutamine is a non-essential amino acid (meaning that we don't have to consume outside sources containing this amino acid because our bodies can make it on its own), but this is where things get interesting: the use of glutamine by many different cells in our bodies is so great that there may be times when its use exceeds its availability, therefore glutamine has been termed a "conditionally essential" amino acid.(18)

This means that during times of physical stress the body may actually need glutamine from the diet to maintain proper cellular function. Clearly, activities such as resistance training constitute a physical stress on the body, which is one reason that athletes have been targeted for glutamine supplementation.

Another interesting fact about our muscles and glutamine is the issue of transport. For an amino acid to get into or out of our muscles, it has to be transported by specific carriers. Using these carriers, our muscle takes up amino acids according to demand from protein composition (i.e. what our muscles need the most), BUT amino acid release is NOT according to composition.

Alanine and glutamine can account for up to 50% of amino acid release from muscle despite accounting for only about 15% of total muscle protein.(31) Obviously, this is a huge discrepancy—which is normally made up for through glutamine production—but as mentioned earlier, during times of physical stress (i.e. exercise), the synthesis of glutamine is hindered. Everyone knows that lacking even one amino acid can hinder muscle growth, which fortifies the theory of glutamine supplementation by athletes.

Now that you're familiar with the basics behind glutamine supplementation, it's time to delve into the literature and pull out some more specific theories as to the beneficial effects of glutamine supplementation.


Glutamine and Muscle Mass

Interest first arose in glutamine as a supplement when it was found that glutamine enrichment elevated levels of protein synthesis in isolated rat muscles.(21) This isn't surprising since it's also been found that muscle protein synthesis levels can be correlated with free glutamine levels.(17) It's also been shown in vitro using rat skeletal muscle cells that glutamine may decrease protein breakdown.(22)

Additionally, we know that the anabolic/catabolic state of a muscle cell is related to it's hydration status—this simply means that cellular swelling has an anabolic or an anticatabolic effect on the affected cells (including muscle cells). Based on this, it's been found that glutamine supplementation may mediate cell swelling and therefore an anticatabolic effect through either increasing cell swelling or hindering cellular dehydration.(28)

Sure you say, these theories are all well and good in cell cultures or animals, but what about the human studies? Well, studies in humans indicate that glutamine supplementation may improve nitrogen balance in critically ill patients, as well as assist in the prevention of protein synthesis decreases following surgery (a HUGE physical stress) or following a 14-hour fast.(13, 12,24,13) There have even been a couple of studies done on resistance trained subjects (more on that a little later)!


Glutamine and Overtraining

We've all felt the scourge of overtraining: the lethargy, the sickness, and the lack of desire to train. Aside from the horrible feeling associated with overtraining, we also know that the longer we're out of the gym, the longer we go without any anabolic stimulus to our muscles. Based on this, another theory suggesting glutamine supplementation for athletes involves the prevention of overtraining.

Glutamine is used as a fuel source by many cells of our body, including many cells of our immune system. Now if you recall that there are times of stress where the body's production fails to meet its needs for glutamine, you can see that this could negatively affect the immune system. In fact, you may not be surprised to find that blood glutamine levels may be compromised following exercise induced overtraining.(1)

Surveys of endurance athletes supplementing with glutamine following a marathon race showed lower rates of infection than those who didn't supplement.(8,9) As for the applicability to bodybuilding, one study showed that resistance exercise may induce a small transient (ie short-term) negative effect on some cells of the immune system, although plasma glutamine levels weren't examined.(6)

So now we have theories for glutamine supplementation to increase protein synthesis/inhibit protein breakdown, as well as boost immunity following intense exercise. This sounds great, but we have yet to look at glutamine's potential effect to stimulate glycogen replenishment following exercise. Glutamine infusion has been shown to enhance glycogen stores following cycling exercise twice as much as compared to subjects who infused saline or other amino acids.(27) If this happened after weight training, it could even help with our cellular swelling and have the aforementioned postive effect on protein accretion.

Another study supports the use of glutamine for enhancing muscle glycogen. Bowtell et al. found that glutamine supplementation following exercise enhanced glycogen resynthesis in muscle just as well as the ingestion of a glucose polymer.(4)

Sadly at this point, many readers have already gone out and bought their kilos of glutamine, and are now reading only to find out how to use the stuff. You may argue, why not? There's plenty of evidence to support the theories presented! This was exactly the thinking when glutamine was introduced to bodybuilders several years ago. In fact, the journal articles reviewed above are the same research papers that can be found time and again, in any outdated article that's trying to sell you on glutamine. But things have recently changed; new studies have been done on animals, and people involved in resistance training, but the results are less than positive.


What the Glutamine Salespeople Don't Want You To Know:

Glutamine and Protein Synthesis — The other side of the coin

We've seen the theory that glutamine levels in the blood and muscle may decrease during or following exercise, and that this decrease correlates with reduced levels of protein synthesis. Several studies have addressed whether this relationship between glutamine and protein synthesis was a coincidental or a causal (meaning that one caused the other) relationship.

The first study compared the abilities of glutamine and the amino acid alanine to stimulate protein synthesis in rats with artificially reduced blood and muscle glutamine levels.(23) As expected, glutamine infusion increased intramuscular glutamine levels, while alanine didn't. Surprisingly, even depleting muscle glutamine levels by 60% had no effect on protein synthesis. What may also surprise you is that restoring blood and muscle glutamine levels to normal had no effect on protein synthesis compared to rats receiving no glutamine treatment! Additionally, even though whole body protein turnover didn't change, alanine stimulated protein synthesis!

In support of this contention, researchers studied the effect of glutamine supplementation on septic rats. Sepsis is a severely catabolic condition, during which glutamine levels (and protein synthesis) fall. Again, this study showed that despite increasing muscle glutamine levels to even higher than normal, it had no effect on protein synthesis or the catabolic state of the rats.(11)

Cumulatively, these studies show that decreased or increased levels of glutamine in the muscle has no effect on protein synthesis.

Another study, performed on people, examined the effect of adding glutamine to an amino acid mixture on muscle protein synthesis .(30) Ultimately, infusion of the original amino acid mixture increased protein synthesis by nearly 50%, but adding glutamine to this mix had no additional effect. This study is particularly relevant because most consumers of glutamine do so following a workout, along with other amino acids (or a whole protein).

Finally, Wusteman et al., used a drug to reduce muscle protein synthesis, along with muscle glutamine levels, in rats.(29) Much like the Olde Damink et al. study, restoring muscle glutamine levels to normal had no effect on protein synthesis. This study further supports the concept that blood and muscle glutamine levels have no bearing on protein synthesis and protein turnover.


Editor's note: Part 2, which pretty much presents a case for relegating glutamine to the Retired Supplements shelf (except for very specific circumstances) will be posted next week.


David J. Barr, CSCS, MSc. Candidate, is a Varsity Strength and Conditioning Coach at the University of Waterloo.



He did not say it directly but he presented evidence to back his statement up that supplementing with glutamine is a waste of money..
 
Pretty good read. BUT...When i was supplementing 20-25g of glutamine preWO, only glutamine, i was getting tight during my lifts. I remember specifically one day i did 25 in some iced tea and my bis got tight, tris got tight, shoulders felt full, back was tight too. All im sayin is yes it may take alot but if your body (because we all react different to stuff) chooses to absorb/react effectivly. I will probably start into it again adding it pre and post. maybe 20 before and 10 after with my shake. It is pretty cheap stuff any way.
 
ok so pretty much what i got out of that article is that taking glutamine doesn't do jack for protein synthesis, but does still have anti-catabolic properties. im more interested in it for the anti-catabolic part anyways, so its a good idea to still be taking it right? assuming thats right how much do i want to take and when?

and back to my bcaa question. i already consume 4 scoops of xtend pre and post workout as is, so i dont wana be using another 4 in the morning or my tub will be gone in like a week lol so which out of the three will be most effective, before, during, or after?

thanks for all the help so far guys
 
Here's the truth.

BCAA's are what the body uses to make Glutamine, which is the most abundant amino acid in the formation of muscle tissue. In fact, Glutamine comprises over 97% of new muscle cell growth. In other words, you can eat protein all day long but it's only the Glutamine that will ultimately grow more muscle. By now you may be wondering; "Why not just take Glutamine?" Well, that's exactly what most companies thought too, (or more accurately, that's what they wanted you to think). It's the reason Glutamine went on to became a very popular supplement. There's just one problem:

The body cannot absorb orally ingested Glutamine!!!

Most supplemental Glutamine is destroyed by digestive enzymes before it ever gets into the bloodstream. That's why no one ever got any impressive results from the use of all that extra Glutamine. The ONLY way for your muscles to reap the benefits of Glutamine is the way nature intended - by converting it from the Branched Chain Amino Acids! Buy some BCAA's or leucine. Save your money and take more BCAA's. My physique bottle has 44% bcaa's so if you can get some bcaa's from your protein supp too great.
 
Why waste money on something like that. Just consume protein bcaa's and your set. Eat, work out, sleep grow repeat. Stick to the basics.
 
Pretty good read. BUT...When i was supplementing 20-25g of glutamine preWO, only glutamine, i was getting tight during my lifts. I remember specifically one day i did 25 in some iced tea and my bis got tight, tris got tight, shoulders felt full, back was tight too. All im sayin is yes it may take alot but if your body (because we all react different to stuff) chooses to absorb/react effectivly. I will probably start into it again adding it pre and post. maybe 20 before and 10 after with my shake. It is pretty cheap stuff any way.

Did you try working out with nothing but water? You're body will naturally tighten up when you lift due to blood circulation and dilation of veins. Perhaps you could compare the use of glutamine pre/post and nothing pre/post and let us know if you did feel any difference?

If it is the case that you notice the glutamine effecting you, then I wouldn't be suprised. As I mentioned in my above post, from the numerous articles I've read on the subject you do in fact need significant doses of this stuff to notice anything (20+grams).
 
Glutamine as a weight training aid is worthless, but using it for a 5-7 day stretch at ~30g/day every 3 months or so is good for intestinal health.
 
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