ginger for prostate?
- Thread starter skull
- Start date
paul e
New member
Yea.. I read this.. seems saw palmetto effects the way dht binds to the androgen recpetors.
But, it cant be that simple. I mean, plenty of pro hormone makers suggest saw palmetto as part of their on cycle stack to assure no prostate issues. Can we hear from some folks who can comment on this? Is saw palmetto effected the way our bodies can use free test, then why are ph makers telling us to use it?
Ok.. heres something:
" Some of most likely mechanisms include the reduction in the amount of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in prostate tissue, inhibition of binding of DHT to androgen receptors in prostate cells, and the anti-estrogenic action in prostate tissue. Another possibility is the ability of compounds within saw palmetto to reduce the action of IGF-1 on prostate tissue. "
I think that what it means is there is less binding of dht to the androgen receptors IN PROSTATE TISSUE, not systemically in the body. At least, Im hoping so. Wiht so many men taking saw palmetto, it doesnt make alot of sense that its going to really hinder in a meaninful way the body's use of test.
But, it cant be that simple. I mean, plenty of pro hormone makers suggest saw palmetto as part of their on cycle stack to assure no prostate issues. Can we hear from some folks who can comment on this? Is saw palmetto effected the way our bodies can use free test, then why are ph makers telling us to use it?
Ok.. heres something:
" Some of most likely mechanisms include the reduction in the amount of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in prostate tissue, inhibition of binding of DHT to androgen receptors in prostate cells, and the anti-estrogenic action in prostate tissue. Another possibility is the ability of compounds within saw palmetto to reduce the action of IGF-1 on prostate tissue. "
I think that what it means is there is less binding of dht to the androgen receptors IN PROSTATE TISSUE, not systemically in the body. At least, Im hoping so. Wiht so many men taking saw palmetto, it doesnt make alot of sense that its going to really hinder in a meaninful way the body's use of test.
Dutchman
Active member
That report has raised some concern, mostly among younger guys. We old farts often go with our experiences. In my case I have been taking Saw Palmetto for my BPH problems with great success for over 8 years. For some time I now buy bulk and cap em myself. At 650 mgs per cap X 2 per day, along with 2 X 600 mgs of Beta-Sitosterol and some other Phyto-Sterols I should be strongly affected by any negative action mitigating my test. Instead in the last 5 years I have gone from 149 lbs to 212 and doubled my strength. Yes it worked wonders for my prostate but it doesn't seem to have any negative effects. FWIW
paul e
New member
Dutch, you made my day.. Thanks a ton for letting us hear that. Ive been taking 325 mg saw palmetto daily, standardized to 85%, plus some pygeum, plus some beta-sitosterol both for cholesterol and for prostate... I have to confess.. When I try and float myself to death by drinking a gallon a day, I dont think a boatload of saw palmetto would stop me from peeing all night long, even if I taper off the water consumption a few hrs before bed.. But, If I cut back my water consumption to maybe a third to a half that, then Im ok. Frequency is the only bph symptom I have, and I think youd agree, if thats as bad as it gets, then its liveable. But I was really getting nervous about its link to test in our bodies. I love lifting, and seeing results. And the thought that Id have to make a choice: Prostate or Muscles.. well, that was real disconcerting. So, I thank you for your personal experience in this regard... Now I can go take my saw palmetto out of the cabinet, and put it back into my daily 'stack'Dutchman said:
BTW, comment on those quantities. Ive read where 320mg of the standardized stuff is all you need. Youre taking like 4 times this, and Im wondering what youve read or been told that is causing you to do these quantities.. Fill us in..>>Can u post the link over at BB?<<
I dont have that link, but heres one from an article written a while ago by Patrick Arnold which says the same thing:
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I wrote him about it, and he said that while it may be true in the lab, in real world use, it doesnt seem to have these negative effects, as borne out by guys like the dutchman
Syr
Hot Italian Goldmember
Yes, saw palmetto, like finasteride reduce the binding in prostate tissue. For the scalp the same happens with topical administration of DHT inhibitors.paul e said:
I'm using SP regularly for over a year and I'm sure its not affecting my gains at all.
On the contrary, less DHT binding means more free test. This effect similar, altough at a much smaller grade of what nettle root (=ActivaTe) does.
paul e
New member
Ok. Folks.. we can put this to rest.. NOt only do we have the strong anecdotal evidence presented on this thread that saw palmetto causes no test related problems, but as I put forth earlier, it seems to Localize the effect to the prostate and is is not a systemic dht block:
"What is interesting about the 5AR inhibition caused by saw palmetto is that it is prostate-specific. Not only does saw palmetto inhibit both types of 5AR in the prostate but not in other tested tissues (epididymis, testes, kidney, skin, and breast) in vitro [20], the active ingredients of saw palmetto concentrate in the prostate as opposed to other tissues after oral administration to rats [21]. This is in line with human studies indicating that saw palmetto extract preferentially reduces prostatic DHT and does not alter plasma DHT or sex hormone levels [9, 22-23]. This explains the lack of side effects in clinical trials. It also means that saw palmetto is unlikely to prevent hair loss." found in Invalid Link Removed
BTW, Dutchman, have a look at this data, regarding the large quantities youre taking:
"Most clinical trials have used 320 mg daily of Permixon. A dosage of 480 mg did not have any advantage over 320 mg in a six month study [4]. Another three month study compared 320 mg once daily and 160 mg twice daily and found that both treatments were equally effective, so it should only be necessary to take saw palmetto once a day [29]. After supplementation has begun, symptomatic reduction can be expected in 2-12 weeks "
"What is interesting about the 5AR inhibition caused by saw palmetto is that it is prostate-specific. Not only does saw palmetto inhibit both types of 5AR in the prostate but not in other tested tissues (epididymis, testes, kidney, skin, and breast) in vitro [20], the active ingredients of saw palmetto concentrate in the prostate as opposed to other tissues after oral administration to rats [21]. This is in line with human studies indicating that saw palmetto extract preferentially reduces prostatic DHT and does not alter plasma DHT or sex hormone levels [9, 22-23]. This explains the lack of side effects in clinical trials. It also means that saw palmetto is unlikely to prevent hair loss." found in Invalid Link Removed
BTW, Dutchman, have a look at this data, regarding the large quantities youre taking:
"Most clinical trials have used 320 mg daily of Permixon. A dosage of 480 mg did not have any advantage over 320 mg in a six month study [4]. Another three month study compared 320 mg once daily and 160 mg twice daily and found that both treatments were equally effective, so it should only be necessary to take saw palmetto once a day [29]. After supplementation has begun, symptomatic reduction can be expected in 2-12 weeks "
Dutchman
Active member
paul e said:
Paul, it's late and I can't search much at this time. Still, remember that Beta-Sitosterol is one of the best remedies for Cholesterol (along with my Beta-Glucan its my favorite). The following is a typical statement:
"How much is usually taken? Between 500 mg and 10 grams of beta-sitosterol per day have been used in clinical research to reduce elevated blood cholesterol levels. Between 60 (20 mg three times per day) and 130 mg per day have been used in trials reporting a reduction in prostatic hyperplasia-related symptoms."
I'm a fully committed vitamin junkie!LOL
Dutchman
Active member
Paul, Skull: I'ld suggest you take a serious look at one other possibility for improving protate health, that is Green Tea. It has an excellent record in reducing/avoiding prostate cancer and still serves as the ultimate anti-oxident. I also use it in my "Anarchy" stack with ALCAR and R-ALA. You can get it bulk pretty cheaply, cap it and take 2 to 3 gms ED depending on what percentage of EGCG it contains.
Green Tea Reduces Prostate Cancer BY 90%
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Green Tea Overview By David Tolson on BN
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Green Tea Reduces Prostate Cancer BY 90%
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Green Tea Overview By David Tolson on BN
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paul e
New member
Thank you dutch.. I will take a look at this. Ive never been a tea drinker at all, so this would be a big change.. But, youve become my old guys supplementing hero... Youve looked into and explored most of the issues which Ive been interested in, and seem to have come to grips with them... So, Im not such a big fool that im not going to start following your example.. INcluding your novadex or reb-xt stack wtih Blue Rhino.. thats on my list.... As is stacking one of the first two with activate once it comes off beta.. Theres another one of us baby boomers whos done a journal with that over at discussbodybuilding.com and perhaps elsewhere, that shows as postitive results with that as youve shown with the AI plus BR. Good StuffDutchman said:
I think I read where youre going onto SD now.. Ive always thought that was a little too hard core for me at my age.. But maybe not.. Ill be watching what youve got to say. BTW.. when I said your saw palmetto quantity looked high, I think I was comparing it to Standardized doseage, where 320 mg once a day is the choice. Youre taking a nonstandardized form, I believe, so that would explain it. As always, keep the knowledge flowing.. youve got Listeners out there!